This isn’t really my domain here, and I don’t know much about SB and SDs. But I feel like this is the appropriate space. I have a friendly relationship with a provider who’s an agency girl. I convinced them to take their first chance at an outcall session away from their agency’s incall location by inviting them to my place. Since the first time they did that, I’ve had them over numerous times, including overnight visits.
I get the sense they’re not long for the sex work business. They’ve told me they hate it and plan to only do it for 6 months. What I currently pay them is not necessarily cheap, but it is cheap when you consider what a 400-500hr escort charges for overnights… I don’t pay an hourly rate for overnights with them. In fact, they’ve never gave me a flat rate; at most they’ll ask what I can pay them. Now I’m wondering if anyone has any experience making these kinds of arrangements with an actual provider/escort.-- Modified on 2/7/2024 3:24:20 PM
I had done it several times with agency girls but it's a no-no in the escort industry. The girl will get fired and the client will be blacklisted if the agency finds out the girl is seeing someone outside their schedules because the agency is not getting their cut.
I found a POT on Seeking recently. Once we started texting, she told me she was working for an agency as an escort. (Quite a few escorts post as SBs on Seeking.) She told me she charged 500 for 2 hours but I had to pay 40% upfront to the agency. I foolishly asked her if I could bypass the agency without paying anything upfront, and she said she would think about it. The next day, I received a threatening text saying they would expose me for soliciting prostitution and warning me not to mess with their industry.
Some of the agency owners are borderline criminals so I recommend you stay away from these agency girls. Do not mess with the agencies.
I get the concerns with this. So far though it seems she’s kept our arrangement private. I’ve texted the agency since I’ve been seeing her independently about scheduling and they’ve responded to me as they normally would.
Also she could get fired for this so id imagine she wouldn’t whistleblow. At this point I am way past worrying about the agency.
Lots to unpack from your post. Let's start by laying out several touchstones for consideration:
1. Pro's can and sometimes do switch or expand their behavior to include sugar dating. But it's helpful to understand why they may take this step:
- Really leaving the P4P business?
- Looking to expand her client base by entering sugar arrangements as supplement to her agency bookings?
- Afraid of LE with an agency and this looks like a "safer" path
- She wants to open opportunities to be a "trophy wife/GF"
- Tired of splitting her revenue with an agency
- She's catching real feelings for you (sorry, this one is the least likely)
- Competitive pressure - she's no longer the Top Tier provider at her agency
- She's looking for upscale experiences and doesn't see a path to that through agency-booked dates
... you get the idea.
2. What is your relationship with her agency? Do you book other women through them? Are you prepared to be blacklisted if she bails for you?
3. What have you been doing during your current overnights? It can't be 10-12 hours of continuous fucking (can it?). Do you want more of that non-smashing stuff and do you think transitioning to a Sugar Dating arrangement will get you what you want?
4. Are you expecting this to be a reciprocal exclusive arrangement? Can she still entertain other clients? Can you still fuck other women (both pros and civilians)?
5. What happens when it ends? (Note: ALL arrangements end, eventually)
Now how do you approach this conversation:
For me, I have gone through this process at least 4 times. Two went well, for a while. The other two were not successful in actually entering a sugar arrangement. But they did result in a "loosening" of her rate/hour pricing. Note that none of these were agency providers.
Timing is important. Do this sometime after sex and payment. Mention that you are thinking of exploring (or that you are already in) the sugar dating space and you find it rewarding for all parties. Talk about the benefits for BOTH; deeper trust and connection, reduced logistics to plan a date - just go have fun, opportunity to share upscale/new experiences together without worrying about the clock, a true dating framework - so not so transactional, etc.
At some point, based on her reaction/interest in your description, ask her if she's thought about something like this and if she has, could she be interested in you as a possible Sugar Daddy. Then take your cue from her response. If that goes well, at some point before you each commit to a 1st Sugar Date, have a fair and transparent discussion about some of the touchstones outlined above.
1. Should you assume she will continue to book clients (you should).
2. Should she assume you will continue to book other women (be honest here. Lying will NEVER work out well).
3. What would you propose as her allowance for a Sugar Date (if it's not at least comparable to what she gets now for an overnight, you will have difficulty getting her to agree, unless you can make a compelling argument - like she will not have to split funds with the agency).
4. Talk about other expectations, like schedule/frequency of dates, date activities (stay indoors/go out in public), potential for short or long travel dates (Vegas! Paris?).
Finally, be sure to acknowledge that this arrangement is flexible, and can end any time by either person with NO hard feelings. Either of you can walk away at any time and you will remain friendly, if not close friends.
Please let us know what happens!
Life is good
The Cat
You make some great points. I’ll try my best to answer some of this, as yes it’s a lot to unpack.
1. I’m unsure of her motivations behind leaving the business, other than she says it makes her unhappy and takes a toll on her mental health.
2. I’ve been a decent customer of her agency in the past. I wouldn’t be too upset if they blacklisted me but so far they haven’t. From girls I’ve spoken with at the agency, it doesn’t seem like it’s ran by a shady group. Many women working there have regular jobs as well, and it doesn’t seem like a situation of trafficking.
3. We just talk, share a glass of wine or champagne, eat dinner together if it’s an overnight. When ive asked her to stay overnight it was not with the intention of expanding time for intimacy, so yeah it just feels like OTC time (especially since I don’t pay her hourly rate for that). One time we met I did inquire if she’d ever want to get dinner or lunch sometime OTC; she said yes though I haven’t tested yet whether she meant it. I asked mainly because they live near my old neighborhood that I often stop by in.
4. I wouldn’t expect it to be exclusive. That’s up to her if she wants to leave the business.
5. I’d hope to just remain friends maybe at most? Or perhaps we go our separate ways and end things amicably. I don’t think there’d be a lot of drama.
One important detail in this is I am a younger client. She actually has a year on me, so I’m unsure whether it will work anyway. I don’t think she looks at me in the sense that I have wisdom or experience that might be attractive in this sort of relationship.
I think this thread has a couple of different things going but let me say this:
If there’s an agency girl on Seeking you need to be sure she is really on her own, otherwise you’re in a dicey situation.
Obviously the gals have a right to different kinds of relationships and a sugar boyfriend if she wants. Or she may simply try to replicate the escort experience, although most of us here want to move away from that.
If she’s working for an agency on Seeking that’s a major issue with the platform but also for the guys who might get in hot water any number of ways.
I saw them again, and I now I believe my best interest is to just let this play out naturally. My arrangement as it currently stands is unusual in the traditional P4P sense anyway.
For this last rendezvous I had not specially told her how long I’d like her to visit (she ended up staying overnight), or how much I’d pay her. I’m interested to see if this trend continues, because otherwise do I really need to define these labels (sb or sd) with her?
They also seem down to go out for dinner or lunch without being compensated (assuming no sex).
Only downside is they seem very close to exiting the business completely. She talks about how she wants to just erase her work/escort name (figuratively speaking) and move on to a project of hers soon. It could go either way, but I’m more likely to believe that she’s going to probably want to end things between us when that time comes. All good things come to an end I suppose.