A little over 6 months ago I made a short term loan of a few thousand to a provider that I regarded as a friend. Based upon the types of excuses that she has made since that time as to why she is unable to start repaying the loan I know that none of it will ever be repaid. Although I am disappointed in the lady's honesty I will survive the loss of the money.
Recently through back channels I have heard that this lady is attempting to borrow money from other TER hobbyists using a similar sob story to the one that she told me.
My question is should I post about this on the discussion board using my actual handle and the lady's alias to make sure that no other hobbyists get scammed in this way?
Hopefully your message will be warning enough to anyone who reads this board and has recently been approached by a loan from a provider. While your desire to warn others is understandable, I'm not sure I would go so far as "outing" her on this board. Afer all, we're all grown boys so we should know what we're getting into without anyone else even telling us.
Personally if I loan money to someone I don't really ever expect to get it back. In my experience if someone who borrows money from you is really likely to pay you back, they probably wouldn't need to borrow money from you to begin with.
Assuming she's a well reviewed/active provider, it's pretty sad she hasn't been able to save a good chunk of money. But I remember seeing a provider who was spending several hundred dollars (I think $800) a month on a rental car (as opposed to leasing or buying one). I questioned her judgment in paying so much for a car but her attitude was basically, hey I can earn that in a few hours, so what's the big deal?
I wanted to add that if you are going to loan someone a considerable amount of money, always make sure that you have everything in writing! That is, IF you are serious enough in getting it back. If it's pocket change, so to speak, and it's something where you know that you will never see it again, then don't bother trying to do a follow up, for it's long gone. I think you are best off back channeling your buddies to warn them about her. Good luck, and I hope everything pans out for you.
Mel 
I can't help but ponder over this very re-occuring theme of poor stewardship over ones own finances in THIS very "cash based" underground economy. To date I have met but one lady
(my ATF)who has a solid financial plan. Although I'm sure there are other providers who are planning for their future it amazes me the number of those that although they earn 2 or more times what an average person does per month they have nothing to show for it. I sadly have personally discovered also that this hobby can put "holes in the pockets" of the hobbyist as well.
YKSY.
name some names, embarrass them and also ward them off trying it again
just remember this...
This is for everyone... DO NOT LEND MONEY TO ANYONE...
That simple.
You can't post it because it has nothing to do with her escorting. IT has to do with her being dishonest.
Shaye
...and I think he should post some sort of identifying material about her. If not her name, then at least the city where she works and her first initial.
She'll do it again.
and again
and again
And guys will be chumps
again
and again
and again
For the very same reason that no one got upset when January of Las Vegas outed that loser with his Cashier's Check scam. She has moved on to a new career - scam artist. When we participate in a community it seems self evident that we should not only benefit from that participation but that we also have a duty to inform other members about dangers so that we keep the community as safe as possible. Caveat Emptor does not breed a vibrant community!
if you're saying that January is a scam artist? As that's almost what it looked like here? I dunno..I'm on pain meds, so some things get fuzzy.
I don't know January, but have heard only the most first rate things about her from very reliable sources.
She was right to out this Scammer, and she was fortunate to have not suffered any loss with his scam, though she might have.
Is there something else?
I think he means that Mr Dummy should out the "scam artist" provider just like January outed the cashier's check scammer. The "she" in his second sentence refers to Mr Dummy's provider and not January.
Obviously some good advice above but I'd modify it somewhat. I think it's okay to make a loan -- as long as you can afford to write it off (and know that's the most likely outcome). It strikes me that a possible compromise is to loan money as an advance against future visits. Might be easier to get repaid in services rather than in cash. Ultimately, it depends on one's relationship with the provider in question.
But clearly, if you can't afford to live without repayment, don't do it.
If I have a friend who asks for a loan or needs one and doesn't ask I will quite often GIVE them the money when I can afford it. I then consider the money a gift and NEVER ask them about it. I go so far as to pretty much forget I gave it to them so things don't get weird and ruin a nice friendship otherwise. I have sometimes been given the money back and sometimes not, but I have yet to lose a good friend or alienate a family member this way.
I have never lent money to a provider, but then again I have not been close enough to call one a friend. My advice, though obviously untested in this situation, is to never ask her for the money and never mention it directly again. But, if you guys have not already become estranged over it, I would suggest you ask her for a visit or two or let it be that over time she doesn't owe you the money anymore.
Since you have already written the money off at this point you have nothing to lose.
It's not so much that she hasn't paid you back as the fact that
she was dishonest. Also, she is using the same scam on others.
It's one thing to borrow money and not be able to repay. It's
quite another if she lied to get money from you. By trying
to scam others she is taking this to a another level.
She's obviously using her contacts as a provider to scam people,
so yes, it does have something to do with the hobby.
Neither a borrower nor a lender be. I will admit there have been times I have disregarded my father's advice. I doubt you will ever see the money again. Perhaps, she could offer you time "off the clock" every so often until her loan is repaid.
In other places on this site, it was posted that a South Florida provider had absconded with the money she supposedly collected for children afflicted with deadly illnesses. In other places on this site, we post those providers who, once they're paid, fail to render the services previously agreed upon.
Mr. D, this provider is perpetuating a scam. An easily avoidable scam; but, nevertheless, a scam. It should be posted.
Staff, what say you??
If the bank won't loan her money neither should you....
I learned this the hard way by trusting someone I was working with and considered a friend - put my own financial well being at risk and wound up having to borrow from a family member myself to put things right. I have made it out of that debt, but I have learned I don't loan anyone money I can;t afford to lose - and that I don't expect it back.
It might cost me a friend by not loaning them the money, but better to lose a friend than to lose someone that was supposed to be a friend and a few thousand.....
Hugs,
Amber
I would out her on the board because its a large amount of money and she was dishonest and used your friendship to decieve you.
she should be publically exposed and maybe it will hurt her business which she deserve
Other providers will tell you not to because they are in the same profession. as far as as people saying TER is not the place to out her i dis agree you met her through TER i assume
Others need to be warned about her There are many women out there who use there charm and sex apeal to get what ever they can and most men are easy targets.
I would explain your whole story do not degrade her or call her names but tell the truth.
Good luck
Col hogan
So at least YOU have a potential non-monetary way of getting re-paid for your loan that the bank doesn't have.
I am in a very similar situation. I know lending $ is a bad idea. But I thought this was different--I thought she was different. Unlike you, however, I am not going to just let it go and accept the loss.
I can't imagine you would be pissed off by at least getting serviced in exchange for the money.
Maybe she could also offer to provide you with services she normally does not provide (not bareback FS folks, that is NOT what I am referring to!) to a client.
If she felt close enough to you to ask for a loan, she should feel obligated enough to come across in exchange for the cash.
Her time IS her value, she should be willing to at least repay you that way.
Just my opinion and I could be wrong.
Loarthan
If she's now trying to do this to others, it sounds more like a scam rather than a situation where she is unable to pay back the debt.
This is off topic but since you raised the issue of bartering...
I hate to see ladies involved in the hobby willing to barter. IMHO, bartering costs the lady more in self-respect than she can ever get back in money or service. In an industry where self-respect can be in short supply, I don't believe that bartering is good for the psyche. I remember the Christmas before last, a provider tried to offer a barter arrangement to acquire the hot Christmas toy at the time. I had to reject the post because TER does not allow posts that suggest bartering arrangements but I was glad to reject it for another reason. I knew the provider from the boards. I emailed her to explain TER's bartering policy but I also tactfully suggested that she might feel better if she purchased the toy with her earnings rather than directly trade for it. I'm happy to say that the lady agreed with me.
Loarthan, you wrote, "Her time IS her value,.." Bartering just re-emphasizes this image of the provider as "a piece of meat!" Hopefully, all the ladies know that "their value" is not strictly limited to their time and their body!
...just MHO
thirsty
-- Modified on 2/4/2004 9:53:34 AM
Sorry Thirsty, I think I gave you the completely wrong impression.
I don't suggest that barter is a good means of commerce here. I was simply implying that this was a way for this lady to pay off her debt in this one case.
My reference to "her time IS her value" was probably a poor way to put it. What I meant to say was she has a commodity (time/service) she could use to zero out this debt.
Sorry if I started something wrong here. I was not my intention. I simply wanted to suggest a resolution.
Regards,
Loarthan
Bartering is the exchange of goods and/or services. Given this, one must realize that "paying with cash" (or credit card) is simply bartering with a standardized medium. No more, no less. BTW - this is not necessarily my opinion, just basic economics.
Be that as it may, for those with self-esteem issues, I believe that it is psychologically healthier to earn their money and then pay for the service rather than just trading themself for it.
thirsty
I would post this story on the appropriate regional board (in the region where she is attempting to use the same story on others). Whether or not you actually out her is up to you. If you get the story out, you'll prevent her from praying on others whether or not you out her.
thirsty
Thirsty!
I love your malapropism! to wit:
"If you get the story out, you'll prevent her from "praying" on others whether or not you out her."
Or as Jerry Falwell says: I will "prey" for your soul tonight!
BTW which televangelist got caught in Vegas with a provider? I am having a brain pharte this morning! {grin}
TET
I'm sorry to hear that happened to you. Any loan larger than a grand should always be put in writing for the protection of BOTH parties involved; receipts should be given when payments are made also, so everyone is happy and no friendship is lost.
I think that small amounts of bartering are acceptable, as long as it doesn't turn into a situation where you literally own her a$$.
XOXO,
Racq~
Perhaps you should have just done a weekend or entire week with her in Las Vegas or The San Juans.
{grin}
TET
In the summer of 1982, I loaned $800.00 to a woman I respected and trusted. (she was not a provider). Unknown to me, she had returned to using drugs. Needless to say, I never got my money back.
I learned my lesson.
Start with a simple fact ....
You look at them (in general) as sex objects. They look at us (in general) as money objects
There's an old story. The young boy hiking in the woods ... goes up in the mountains .. and finds a small snake shivering in the cold. The snake says "Please help me or I shall surely die from the cold." The boy picks up the snake, carries it down the mountain and places it in the sun, on a warm rock by a stream. At that point the snake turns around and bites him. The boy looked at the snake and asked "After all I did for you, why did you bite me?"
The snake replied "You knew what I was when you picked me up."
Now .. are all providers like that? No, of course not. I know some that I consider among the brightest and most honorable people I know. But the fact of the matter is that they live in a cash rich industry and anyone bright enough to be the kind I'd associate with is the kind that would NEVER be in a bind for "a few thousand." A medical emergency requiring MANY thousands - yes. But any girl worth her salt can make an extra 'few thousand" in a week of applying herself.
What you did, sadly, besides pay retail for one of life's lessons ... is teach one more girl that men are an unending supply of cash. The good news is ... in 10 years or so, she'll be old, probably poor, and still stupid.
If it was me, I'd out her.
Its way too easy to get emotionally involved with a provider. If your going to loan money. Make sure you can secure collateral. If they are truly in need, they will be more than happy to do it. You may feel like the hero when you loan it, but your gonna be the big zero when you get burned.