that in such a place one would be silly to expect some manners or civilized dialogue. But when I'm fucking someone- no matter where I meet them- I would expect that we respect each other equally. A fuck is still a human interaction, and in my view, there are very few instances in which I would not respect another human with whom I am interacting.

Fuck is a euphemism for intercourse, which to me is a beautiful, incredibly pleasurable experience. Why use it in such a way as to denigrate what we all participate in?

I abhor bad manners and disrespect

and I highly respect and appreciate those who I am fucking on a given day.....

 
I think the point of those who use this term though is that this very enterprise is by its very nature the antithesis of "PC" -  so it seems a bit odd to expect PC here....

beyond that,  it is the internet and it is largely anonymous.  Those who get bent out of shape by what other people say are the ones who have an issue to deal with -    and should take responsibility for their own boundaries instead of holding everyone else accountable not to hurt their feelings....

-- Modified on 7/20/2014 6:29:04 PM

nauseatingly politically correct it would be .... a fuck board.

by calling it a "fuck board" I believe that at least most of us mean that it has a certain "locker room" mentality to it, where off color conversation is not only tolerated, but expected.

After all if a bunch of johns and hookers can't be non PC on a fuck board, where can we say what we want without the PC Police being all up our ass? This is supposed to be a place where we are free to express our frank, honest opinions about sex and all that goes with it without fear of offending the uber sensitive.

The PC police are free to speak their mind anywhere they want to, why do they have try to take away one of the very few places that those of us who are not PC have to freely express ourselves, Are you PC promoters really that fucking selfish, that you won't allow us our one place were we can say what's on our mind without worrying about someone taking it wrong?

END OF MESSAGE

Prior to that, my interaction with others in the life had been limited to the women I visited and the voices on the board.

Naturally, I expected that the other men I would encounter would be crass and foul-mouthed, terribly insulting to each other,and probably wanting in manners altogether.

I can't help being who I am, so I put on a suit with a plaid shirt and a loud tie, and though I was probably more nicely dressed than most, I didn't feel overdressed. The people at the M&G were not at all like the lowlife here. Many of them seemed rather repressed and timid. Those who mingled well were for the most part cheerful and observant of the same etiquette I'm used to in coffeehouses and taverns in my private life.

I talked to several of the women inside and outside of the venue, and they all had great attitudes, a sense of humor, and were playful in the usual ways that people enjoy enjoy each othet's company in any other place. The men I spoke to were easygoing and respectful.

There was no one-up-manship games, I heard no put-downs, no snarky remarks, and over the course of the evening I must have had at least two dozen rather lengthy conversations.

Of course I understand that probably the board bullies are not such tough guys offline, and many might use board personas that do not reflect their everyday selves.

But I also feel that those who spend an inordinate amount of time on this board often are people with only rudimentary social skills who don't function very successfully in most pedestrian social encounters. We've all experienced the rough, foul-mouthed unfortunates in saloons, grumbling, cursing, and sneering at their home lives, their jobs (most that I've come across are blue-collar workers, but I'm sure the phenomenon is not class specific).

I feel fortunate that those who attended the M&G were more like me.

The subject matter here is sex. But, not just sex; it's sex with paid companions. Given that distinction, the kind of bawdy dialog that occurs on this board would result in some immediate head-rolling were the same dialog to occur in the office----or the family dinner table (for most).  

I get that many prefer 'political correctness' be kept to a minimum. The problem is many interpret NOT being politically correct, to be the SAME THING as being as personally insulting to others as possible.  

 
Refraining from politically correctness, and being a total asshole without provocation, are not one and the same. The latter is nothing more than just being an asshole for no reason. And, then trying to justify that ass-holish-ness by saying: "well...If you don't like me calling you a fat cow when you asked about hotels, you should leave. This is a fuck board".  

 

 


-- Modified on 7/20/2014 11:53:18 AM

of which there is a link to below.  I recommend people read it if they haven't done so already.

I have a certain resistance to equating sex and civility together because while everything that SS says about sex is true, I see sex as sort of the antithesis of civilization.

I suggest reading Freud's Civilization and Its Discontents for more on this.  It's not something I'm going to try and flesh out here.

Nevertheless, we can all be civil towards one another without pulling punches if we all agree to keep the focus on ideas and not ad hominem attacks.

Perhaps their should be an Ad Hominem Attack Board so everyone can be happy.

I have to say you are all wet on this. People on this board LOVE to trash. Its fun. Its sport. Nothing deep. Quite shallow in fact. Take it for what it is. And as I said in my other post if you are looking for meaningful conversation here - look elsewhere  - like maybe an actual encounter with a human being instead of a pack of online aliases.  

-- Modified on 7/20/2014 8:30:04 PM

-- Modified on 7/20/2014 8:31:37 PM

She can do what she wants here and seek out what she wants here and create what she wants here. So can I. So can any and all. If that really upsets you so much, maybe you should seek discourse on your level elsewhere, like real life with an actual thinking, feeling human being, instead of a bunch of faceless comments on this board.

I actually think I"m the best possible version of myself and you may be the best possible version of yourself. The difference is, i know what I'm doing.
Do you have any idea how many gals tell me what a fool you are and will never see you?  Hell, even your BFF won't see you.  There's a message there, if you were smart enough to get it.

END OF MESSAGE

I find the differing opinions, and the freedom with which they are expressed here, to be very refreshing.  
It's FUN when things get a little heated. But I don't think outright disrespect is ever called for or necessary...not only that, but it really doesn't make for fun reading. For me, anyway.

It's just human nature, Rod.  Work with it or get run over by it, it's up to you.

what we all do is so far out of normalcy in real life, and that this "non-normalness" (abnormal is the wrong word) includes immorality for many, that the immorality is permitted to seep into all of our interactions with each other. Like, if I'm a whore/whore monger, why not an asshole or backstabber or creep too? Kinda like in some strip clubs, how men and women leave their class and consideration for others at the door. It doesn't have to be that way. We can certainly be plenty bawdy and off-color without pure meanness. Edgy-ness doesn't have to mean hatefulness.

But it doesn't have to be that way.

Testosterone and anonymity will see to that.  For my part I try not to unnecessarily use abusive language in board discourse but some posts just bring it out...see my responses to johnnycomesalready and ROGM inanity for direct evidence of that.  But in general expect to see more vitriol than sunshine and light, same as any other Internet forum actually.

-- Modified on 7/20/2014 9:48:25 PM

Maybe it's just too tough to decide who will be the first guest.

Oprah has said she's in.

1-800-show girls or select entertainment, glass slipper, ok i did one shift at cheaters. Then went back cadillac.
 I never seen people "leave thier class at the door." or "thier consideration for others." at the door,.
 I seen guys getting googley eyes at womens dancing. Entertaining, engaging them in conversation, I had guys pay me to talk to them in clubs,  
 There are guys that get kicked out for throwing quarters on the stage , that hapoened once to a dancer i knew a guy threw quarters at her.  
 BUT then there was shooting or a shoot out at another one at one point. That happens alot at them .
 BUT you  consider strip clubs a place where they leave thier class at the door?
 Club desure was very classy, It was only topless and inj womans dressing room was a house mom and big caraffes of good italian food for us and bus boys come in and out to switch it out, Cadillac too had a free huge buffet italian food in the "el dorado room" which is the ONLY ALL NUDE dancing room in the entire club.
   Rest the stages are topless only, Oh forgot to mention Alexs I worked there 15 years ago, i went at age 18 on a school night and that place aint bad, Kittens was no contact and the guys even during dances have to stay arms length away, I made 875 one shift there. Just dancing. Not even touching any the customers!
 It was actually the owner and his 3 daughters ran bar and his wife, It was kinda funny it was the whole family  that ran it, The bouncers were really strict and would keep the guys in line. You cant control ass holes come in those places and get thrown out. But cute nice old guys too that just want to talk and have a cocktail with a pretty lady.  I wouldnt say that isn classless.  
    How do the women leave thier consideration for others at the door??? i dont get that part?

growing when I hang with you your super intelligent.  
           AD hominem attack board.
OH I just googled and found the definition, YES that totally is what this is, Tbhis isnt a fuck board its the adhominem discussions board.
 I have heard that only highly intelligent people enjoy debates though.
It is stimulating to the brain i suppose.  
 I dont mind speaking my opinions. I think its hilarious when people get super defensive or negative or just whiny over trivial things in life. Its funny, i feel sorry for them but it is funny. Entertainment i guess.....

I know i was just with mr.fisher hours ago he was posting while on my couch for few hours while I MANICALLY CLEANED AND WAS BEING NEUROTIC.  i MET  INKI. i ALMOST MET YOU! MAYBE MY NEXT NY TRIP.
                 OH AND I GOT THE UNFORTUNATE NEWS HOUND OF CULLIN ISNT GONNA GO ON HIS OUT OF STATE TRIP TO MEET ME TONIGHT, i AM SO SAD, iT IS OVER THE FACT I GOT ANGRY AT A SCORNED LOVER OF A HOBBYIST OR ACTUALLY NO THE 2 STORIES I HAD SHARED OF MY EXPERIENCES WITH THE WIFE FINDING OUT,
 iT WAS A TOPIC I POSTED AND IT APPARENTLY GOT VERYONES PANTIES IN A BUNCH, ....

The men who, when approached for a dance by a lady, ask her to turn around so he can see her ass, and then say no. The men who sit at a state and leer at the women but maybe tip a dollar to every third dancer. The man who spits ice at a lady who asks him for a dance. Lots of examples.

And the ladies who talk badly about other ladies they work with. I've even been told a story about a new lady's bag and shoes being urinated in because she was making more money than some of the others. The ladies who steal dollars off another lady's stage. The list is endless, but in all honesty, those ladies probably didn't have much class to leave at the door to begin with.

When you've frequented strip clubs as much as I have as a customer, you see a lot of stuff.  

I'm certainly not painting all clubs or ladies and men with the same brush. I'm just saying I saw it in strip clubs way more than in other businesses I've frequented. I still adore strip clubs. And strippers!  

He said on any other internet forum.

He can bench 400 pounds and complain to admins all day, but can't figure out what a real squirt is...

That's just how he rolls!

The majority of the negativity from the various "unidentifiable" handles are women. Most likely providers, and screeners. I don't know, nor care if they are aware of their behavior, or know if others are aware who they are. Perhaps there's a method to their madness, so far I haven't been able to decipher much from it.

 
... in short I never want to visit with these subhuman examples of the female species.  

I believe most of the rape jokes, come from these insecure providers.

Another male client wouldn't give a shit about another male poster

Yeah, mrfisher is one of the very few I speak with. I envy him because he gets to see you!  Hopefully someday my turn will come. I am thinking of an out of state trip to Revere so we will see.

I'm on some small forums, and we are always very gentile with each other there.

But as the size of the forum increases, but more animosity there is.

I guess it is like society at large.

Well, I think you're wrong, my friend. Perhaps you're speaking for yourself, and in your own case, maybe the anonymity and testosterone combine to somehow make you more vitriolic in certain instances. But I participate on plenty of forums where vitriol and drama rarely, if ever, raise their ugly heads. Any disagreements are dealt with civilly by mature human beings, and nasty behavior is not tolerated. As a matter of fact, in most cases, people go out of their way to make each other comfortable.  

So I don't think anonymity + testosterone = vitriol. I think the level to which that occurs is directly related to the types of people who post, and how the majority there behave. I think groupthink spiraling to the lowest common denominator has more to do with vitriol than anonymity and testosterone.  

And the term "human nature" is a cop-out of taking responsibility for your own actions. Kinda like, "the devil made me do it".

Rod. Those who respond negatively to your postings are not doing so in a vacuum. They are responding to the content of your published message. So I think the better analogy would be whether they would act this way in the workplace to a co-worker or employee who consistently conveys the same type of information and opinion you do. I have no proof, but I suspect nobody feels any actual ill-will towards you. It' appears to be a clash between two diametrically opposite philosophies and viewpoints on the P4P industry. Just by your postings you appear to be a likable guy. I simply think there are people who legitimately feel you have a dangerously naive outlook about this business. Just my opinion.

if you want others to tell you how to live.

To which you respond with real life examples.  See the difference?

... and no one that read that post liked it. I fully own that post, or was it a PM?

 

The amazing part was the demonstration the individual's learning disability. Where they continued to provoke the conversation, that led to the comment, which they took great offense to.

...and asked me to never say again.

 
I can only interpret that persons behavior as liking the "verbal" abuse.

It's pretty much that simple, but don't expect Rod to get it.  You're not the first to 'splain it to him but he never, ever gets it.  He also can't understand what Steph told him that most Internet boards are the same. It's human nature, something about which he knows nothing.
My suggestion is he should go try to reform another site and see how he does.

After all it's rarely 100% accurate to say "all x are y."  But I don't see this board going all civil and genteel anytime soon, and that's actually fine with me, it's diverting and hilarious and as long as one isn't too thin skinned (reading this Rod?) it's a lot of fun.

END OF MESSAGE

But even here at TER you have boards that are civil. I just think GD prides itself in not being one of them.

It seems to me, as absurd as this may sound, that this discussion can be applied in general - how do we treat people whom we pay to be service providers and, for those of us who are service providers, how do our clients treat us.  
I am a service provider in a very different industry  I have clients who treat me with respect and professionalism and those who think that because they are paying  me for my services, they "own" me and have a right to be abusive and condescending. I have clients who have become close personal friends and those with whom I want nothing to do with outside of the scope of my services.  
The same principle applies here. Regrettably, there are those amongst us who see this as a fuck board and the woman as the objects of their lust.  They feel that because they are paying for the services provided,  they have the right to be condescending, abusive and treat the women as dirt and trash.  
On the other hand, there are those of us who view the  providers as people who have chosen, for whatever reason, to share their most personal asset with us as service providers in the sex industry.  Many are women who are genuine and sincere, compassionate as well as passionate and who are themselves often mothers and have other professions. As Sarah has so articulated stated, it behooves us to treat them with dignity and respect and to engage in civilized dialogue on these boards. I for one am  grateful that they have chosen to share their bodies and passion with us, even if it is P4P. The fact the we are paying for their services, and that those services are essentially fucking, in no way diminishes my obligation to treat every fellow human being as an equal and not as my chattel.  
These boards should be a forum for respectfully exchanging ideas amongst like minded individuals. While there will always be differences of opinion and varying perspectives, there should be zero tolerance for  demeaning, degrading or derisive behavior towards one another. Of course, there is a  concomitant responsibility to post appropriately ( I know - opening a Pandora's box as to what is appropriate!) l.... and when someone doesn't, IMHO the best response is either polite disagreement or to simply ignore it.

END OF MESSAGE

-- Modified on 7/21/2014 10:36:18 AM

-- Modified on 7/21/2014 10:46:48 AM

-- Modified on 7/21/2014 11:13:50 AM

The men on this board shouldn't care what the other men think of them.

Enough, in fact, to respond to virtually every post made about you.  Enough to complain about what you think are hostile comments directed at you.  Enough to sob about how you feel your words are misinterpreted.
Pot=Kettle=Black.

Trying to get under my skin.  

 
... and I just laugh at it. Some thing I learned a while ago, don't bring your work home with you.

 
Figure that one out.

Now, having said that, be prepared for a flaming train wreck of posts ridiculing me for thinking that both of you are thoughtful. That aside, there's a question about "Hunan nature" that intrigued me.

How can anything any human does be other than in his nature to do it?

It is, in my POV, human nature to get carried away with group dynamics. It is also, in my POV, human nature to protest the press of group dynamics.

Predicting that nothing will change because that would be contrary to human nature is absurd in the sense that it is a meaningless assertion. Predicted things WILL change because of the same is also a meaningless assertion.

Why do we get caught up in this? Is it because the board is not an efficient forum to discuss anything of merit? There are no experts on any of the topics here, there are few who care about the topics, and each thread serves little more functional purpose than a place to hurl insults and abuse at one another.

So...we might be very wise to find a forum outside of TER, say somewhere where a discussion of hummingbirds are occasionally discussed, and establish ourselves there, coding our language and assuming the pretense of an interest in hummingbirds. We could PM each other and others of like mind to visit that site and post freely.

Don't worry, no one believes you.  Oh, and don't flatter yourself, whacking My Piñata with a stick takes no effort at all.  I don't even break a sweat over you.

He knows a ton of escorts and hobbies alot but he is wicked positive, which is why i look forward to his visits,  
Even on the boards he never tries to get a rise out of any one, which is some one i like to have an associate, I dont like drama, Or starting it, I may have anger issues but only when provoked, Never out of the blue for no reason only if i feel i am being attacked or insulted, Which quite a few i dont know like to do to me on here. Which is fine, I disagree with things people say here too and get annoyed with them and also will say so, But yes he is confident in who he is so you can see that he never attacks females on here, which also in oerson he also acts respectful and is easy going, Unlike SOME people,

We're quite different in our board personas (duh) but we've always gotten along and have numerous friends in common.  We've been to several gatherings together, including his marriage to the wonderful Beverly Fisher, a retired provider and Earth Mother.  He is one legit cool dude.
And we both like Angel a lot.

-- Modified on 7/21/2014 9:24:24 PM