For the hobbyists out there trying to protect our anonymity, it is becoming more difficult to see new providers who will accept 1-2 references from other well known providers (TER reviews, website, etc...), in lieu of personal info, full name, home address, employer, etc... Wouldn’t it be safer to get a reference from a well known provider, as opposed to personal info?
The reasons I do not disclose my personal info is fear of family discovering my “other life”, losing my job, LE, etc…
Lately a large number of providers are not accepting the references unless provided with the personal info. Almost all providers who require personal info indicate that they discard the info once they verify everything. This defies logic as the holding of the personal information until after the “date”, provides a certain amount of leverage they may need to protect themselves. Keep in mind that the crazies out there have jobs, homes/apartments, landline phones etc... also. If in fact you do discard the data after verification, why bother to verify to begin with? What you should be doing, and advertising, is that all personal info is kept until you return safely from your meeting. This would provide more security than advertising that you discard the info once you verify.
I do not fault the ladies out there in trying to be safe as that is, and should be their #1 concern. What I cannot understand is that by asking prospective clients to provide personal info, in my opinion, is not really providing a higher level of safety.
First off, I am extremely persnickety about giving references. Meaning I REFUSE to give references unless I absolutely KNOW and would lay my own life on the line. I have asked references from the creme de la creme of escorts and been misled.
So, why should any lady trust ME, especially if she has been given misinformation by others as have I?
Here is your answer. References are an addendum to your profile, and you need to mete out that info discriminately. But you make your choices. If you want to see a reputable provider, yes, she is subject to human error, but not prone to exposing you. If you want to see a hot bod that you don't know, i.e. toftt, be prepared for the best and/or the worst.
As for our disposing of the info... given the fact that I throw the info out within a reasonable amount of time given the possible backflush you mention, I CANNOT give a reference after I have deleted your info unless you either stand out in my mind for some reason, or you have retained contact with me.
Many men either think they can have it both ways or simply assume we keep the info. Although I know that some do.
One more thing...if you are looking to have a reference, many of us ladies will remember you by YOUR EMAIL HANDLE. We have so many emails that it is really quite impossible to get it all. And just because I remember your email AND the other name you use in your email body, doesn't mean I can say that I actually saw you...
I just had this happen. A provider asked me for a reference for someone, using his real name. I had long since thrown out his info (3 years ago) but he retained contact by email about once a year. Since I had come to know him by his email handle, never using or remembering his real name, I didn't remember his real name. I had to ask her to have him contact me, and then even then I didn't put the two together until he reminded me of his full name.
-- Modified on 12/9/2004 8:23:30 AM
Some references I trust, some I don't. I know of some ladies that don't screen (from seeing her take calls and then meet the guy, not good!), and that bothers me, and when I get their name as a reference, I don't even bother to check with her, I make sure that I get his info and verify him via employment. That is why I always do ask for employment ALONG with a reference.
But does verifying someone's employment make you feel safer? Someone who may do a provider harm is most likely employed. Unless you do some kind of background check to see if he has any prior arrests or something like that verifying employment really does not accomplish anything other than screening out the unemployed.
Employment info is very helpful. Particularly when it comes from professionals who hold a license, like Attorneys, Doctors, Teachers, CEO's. Business owners can be easily verified by checking the States Business Portal. Many professionals who are accomplished can be googled with their company, very well established professionals have more to loose than some goof who just got out of jail. These things definitely lower your odds of meeting a criminal mind.
These steps must be taken. And then followed through by calling (with direction and discretion of the client), and then of course ID must be presented.
These steps are paramount. I spend more time doing my homework, than I do actually seeing clients. And since I learned to do this, I have met the most charming guys. It really does make a difference. I do not trust 3rd parties because I do not trust that they are truly protecting me personally. I believe it is a good service. But I feel more confident really knowing exactly who I am going to see because I did my work diligently.
Jenni
You have to do what works for you and allows you to meet your goals. In doing so, you should ignore detractors as long as the methods that you use produce the desired results for YOU.
Great post! I totally agree with you.
Sara
called accountability the day I started screening. It was so sudden and so amazing that I could not attribute the difference to anything else but screening. Much like what reviews have done to keep us bad girls in line, lol. Some girls are motivated to do better because of reviews, Some men are motivated by screening to watch their p's & q's. I can't seem to figure out any other reason why a certain shall we say, overall improvement - meaning that I stopped getting some of the more poorly behaved men once I insisted on screening. Just stating the facts of what I observed:
One person who I saw without screening and continued to see over time, turned out to be a nice enough chap, but turned bad after about a year and ended up ripping me off. Conversely, a man I DID screen did a similar thing (found out that he had started doing drugs). In each case, something changed in their circumstances over time, and there were telling signs, but not strong enough to deter or alarm me. I just knew something was turning strange in each case. Hopefully if these individuals had been intending to come over and kill me, rather than rip me off, those signs would have been stronger, and I would have heeded those signs.
Go figure... if they are serial killers, chances are they have a great cover, employment or otherwise, are very smart and so forth. Still the idea that we need to be cautious is important for everyone involved. And just like anything in life has no guarantees. I know that no one gets in my door without my believing that I know who he is and that he has no other agenda, and so far, screening, and listening are the best tools I know of.
Respectfully..
xoxo
FF
-- Modified on 12/9/2004 10:01:02 PM
Don't. Recently, a heavily-reviewed provider I hadn't seen for about a year called and asked me to "be her banker." Having loaned money to a couple providers before, and having not heard from them again, I declined. I was polite and sympathetic, but no more inclined to put her on the payroll than to ask her for a couple "freebies." Foreign to me...
To her great credit, she then spelled out, by phone and e-mail, what was in store for me if I didn't ante-up. I firmly refused to make the "loan." She then used my "screening information" from a year earlier to feret out my employer's main number and fax number. In a series of phone calls and faxes, she made good on her threats, communicating all the details of our visits to my co-workers AND managers. A creative lady, she embellished, adding "details" about 3-somes and illegal drug use. As Jenni_SD alludes to below, she copied members of my profession's peer review panel and state board.
That is playing dirty. What did you do to iron out these mess, at work and with that creative lady?
understanding. At work, things are not good. I basically need to feel secure and respected in order to function well with a lover, a job, my kids, in business, etc. That's WAY gone at work so things are tough. Nicole, we have mutual friends and I know you to be a very decent lady - the best - and, you're right, craziness like what was done to me ruins it for all concerned.
DeepPurposeWithLuck: what did I do about the "lady"? Nothing. There are psyco's out there, but I'm not one of them. I e-mailed saying "cut the crap" and, when that was faxed to our Director the next morning, I let it drop.
There are so many scenarios that can occurr even when using diligent personal screening info. For instance, not long ago I was contacted and given the name of an Attorney here in SD. I looked up the website of this attorney, looked him up in the State Bar Association, and felt quite secure. But when I called, he did not know what I was talking about or who I was. I really believe he was genuine, and not in a "sticky" situation as he spoke to me for a minute very nicely. I do believe there was possibly someone who either was playing a joke on him or me. Or it also could have been someone who even may have had same name, and therefore could have passed the ID check had I not made the call, or could have been a cop. So who knows what could have occurred. When I confronted him he hung up very quickly.
Felicia is right on about the reference thing as well. There are so many approaches that they get confused with people we actually met, plus time and other things in our lives that crowd our minds. We all have numerous details, issues, families, conflicts, stresses, goals and tasks just as everyone else does.
As for the personal info, I do keep it until I return home safe. Then my shredder comes in very handy. So my reference for that person must be very clear before I will give it to another lady as I do not want to feel responsible for harm that may come to her because of my reference.
I respect the people who trust me with their information. I appreciate it when they are concerned with my feeling safe, and I want them to feel certain that I will protect them to the best of my ability. Public records will show that I have done this. The one time I compromised, I took a ride downtown, rather than devulge information on the ones who have been friends to me. But the bigger issue is personal, physical safety. We deserve to be as safe as we can be.
Jenni
-- Modified on 12/9/2004 10:18:50 AM
-- Modified on 12/9/2004 10:19:53 AM
First off let me say, I consider myself fortunate to have met some awesome, lovely and sharp providers who can provide references for me.
In the hobby climate now, with the murders of two providers in the last month (Cheryl of Chicago and Lunden of Atlanta) are on the minds of all providers, you must understand that ladies will be on their toes to scrutinize new clients even more carefully. That being said, don't expect many to change their screening requirements to gathering information that makes them feel less comfortable.
Give the ladies what they need to know and makes them feel comfortable. My SO knows about this other life I lead and I don't really care if anybody else finds out. I wouldn't want to be front page headline but if that is what it takes to keep my ATF safe then so be it.I'm a business owner so don't have to worry about employer. just my .02
1) Lunden
2) alexis
3) Cheryl in Chicago
Those are three bone-chilling reasons to me.
BUT. Please read my post (above). I'm sure there are hundereds or thousands of guys like me that have been BURNED by "ladies" whose reasons would be incomprehensible to you (i.e., greed, rage, revenge, greed, meaness, madness, greed).
BTW, we've corresponded in the past, I'm in your Yahoo! group and you are beyond question an honest, honorable and very lovely lady! I used to think it was OK to trust ladies with lots of reviews but now I know there are exceptions and think financeman2003 is a very wise man...
-- Modified on 12/10/2004 3:20:58 AM
Realizing that these outfits could also disclose my personal info, at least it's only one potential leak.
I dont know as it's been awhile since I've used RS2000. When I did, I could call them on the phone and chat with the ladies running it, and I felt very comfortable in the case I refer to their certainty of really knowing who that client was. Still I wouldn't know who could infiltrate so I just can't go that route with any regularity.
As for DateCheck, verification is at the discretion (or lack thereof) of the provider doing the verification. I was asked recently to verify someone for DateCheck who NEVER saw me. I won't get into how I knew he was faking it, but of course I refused to verify him. Like I said in the above post, referral just ISN'T enough in most cases. Accidents and misunderstandings of identifying clients for referral purposes do happen as well, so I would have to be very willing to put my safety in the referrer's hands, which is an exception rather than the rule and it would usually be just for a two girl, with her having seen him previously, or some similar sitution.
-- Modified on 12/9/2004 5:41:10 PM
I never felt right about asking a lady to vouch for me, particularly one who's only seen me once. All she knows at that point is that I'm probably not LE.
And I certainly can't be blackmailed with my personal info: a) I have no money to give up and b) as far as my SO other finding out...well...if it happens it happens. If being "found-out" would ruin my life, I wouldn't be hobbying.
I've actually delayed seeing a very hot local provider for several months just because I feel awkward providing the multiple references she required.
Personaly I will not see anyone without their personal info being verified first. This is for my safety. Though I do not share such info with anyone I do have people whom know should anything happen to me where it is that all info on with who when and where I was last. I only dump that info after I get home safely. I do however keep the email addy in a file so I know that I donot need to re screen the gentleman
-- Modified on 12/10/2004 9:09:27 AM
I for one do not believe for one second that any provider ever discards the personal info they get from their clients. You already stated the reasons why they need to keep it in your post.
Lets also be honest about screening.... it really doesn't keep anyone safe at all.
For instance, you want my info to determine I am not a cop. So what do you with my info? Call the local police department and ask "Do you have an Officer Thomas Jenkins on your department? If so, does he work vice?". I mean how the hell does getting a home address, phone number and work number verify the client isn't a cop? Cops aren't dumb... if they want to run a sting and need to give a "legitimate work number", they are simply going to go to some business and speak with the owner and ask them to front a bogus identity for them. Business owners help LE all the time. Did you ladies ever think of that? In my hometown a car dealership was supplying the local narc cops with a regular supply of rental cars to use for their undercover drug stings. Businesses look great when they assist police.
Getting advanced information may help you feel better about your security, but its a false sense of security. Screening alone cannot prevent harm to you or keep you from being busted. You need to protect yourself in many other ways.
A Provider can at times cut a deal with Vice to get a reduced sentence / probation. See an earlier post on the LA board about how one woman, not a lady, sold out her clients to protect herself.
Linkmeister, fill the link in for me!
Guys, if you do not want to give out your information to others, then don't and move on. Unless you are dead set on seeing her. If she wants your information and you do no provide it to her, what does both party think then?
1. She is LE on a sting.
2. He is LE on a sting.
3. He has something to hide.
I can go on and on, but the truth is, if you do not feel comfortable in giving out your information, then move on to the next lady.
Ever heard of the phrase, "There is no dumb question but no question?"
Hmmmmmmm. I lost my train of thought. Now I await your responses.
Stalkers, grifters, rapists, serial killers... it's more serious that she screens out these guys even if it fails sometimes.
Your completely out to lunch. I know providers who have given examples of LE that they've screened out.
"Cops aren't dumb..." Dumb statement. Sorry, some cops are. Many vice cops are in particular. You don't have to make yourself an easy target so that the dumbest can catch you. She'd then be in jail every week...
Why don't you try using this argument with your bank: "Let's be honest about credit checks, they don't reduce your risk at all."
Get brains first, then be honest.
/Zin
Thank you, thank you, thank you!
Hugz & Smooches!
Jenni
Out to lunch? Hardly.
Lets get one thing straight, I didn't say providers shouldn't screen, I said screening doesn't provide the security they might think it does.
Your provider friends who screened out LE... how did they do it with just personal info? That was the original topic, giving out personal info.
Too many ladies out there think that if a guy sounds nice on the phone and is willing to give his personal info then he must be ok. Too many ladies never follow-through by contacting his work, running his number through an internet phone search or call the references he gave.
Too many ladies rely on screening alone to protect themselves. A guy who passes your screening can still freak out on you during the appointment and cause you harm. Don't think that becuase he hasn't hurt the references you contacted he won't hurt you.
These are the points I'm making... prescreening isn't nearly as effective as the providers think it is.... they need additional safety precautions as well.
I have the brains... many more in this hobby need to get them.
I forgot what my point was when I wrote the previous post here, but lets face it, not all cops are dumb, nor are they the smartest, somewhere in between.
No screening is ever perfect, the ladies here are just looking for their best interests. AS do you for coming on to this board to read what others have to say about a lady before you take the plunge, no pun intended but could be construed that way....
All I am saying is that if you REALLY WANT TO SEE ONE PARTICULAR PROVIDER WHO SCREENS, THEN YOU HAVE TWO CHOICES, YES OR NO.
NWTBK
Any smart provider does discard. A cache of names and numbers of people from all over the country could also be used AGAINST a provider as evidence. Women who exploit gentlemen who support us are despicable.
The only time I was compromised was when I went for a referral only. That so called provider did/and still does have reviews on the San Diego board. Here's an example. If I were to call Elise (greekelise) for a reference right now who has a review on the front page of the San Diego board, I would be taking a ride, again.
When this did happen to me,it really opened my eyes to the fact that if I had gotten myself ALONE in the company of a detective that easily, it could have just as easily been someone who could snap my neck. They did me a monumental favor in that regard. I consider the 4,200 spent on defending myself a good tuition payment. I also paid a 2,000 cash bond which I got back, because I work very hard at having my ducks in a row. I am not even resentful about it because it has taught me alot and changed my own approach which has enhanced my experience to go on the kinds of calls I really wanted anyway. I am sure that in the minds of LE the dangerous side is what they are trying to help prevent, and some of that is valid. Those guys are enforcing laws WE have in place. Too bad we don't ever hear that a ring of people have been round up who were forcing immigrant women into prostitution to pay off entrance to the US by being endentured servants. Unregulated arenas like this contributes to serious corruption and there are victims here. I prefer not to be one, so I will continue to screen, screen, screen and go on dates with guys like the one I saw last night that rocked my world and will ultimately aid me in achieving my goals, and I will always be grateful and loyal to those.
Hugs, licks and kisses to you guys!
Jenni