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Comments Please - See Florida Board "Pleasure of my company" and my response
non-whitedude 6834 reads
posted

Pleasure of my company

Posted by happyHelen  , 2/9/2004 5:46:22 AM    
If you are Anglo, over 40, live or travel to South Florida and in need of something different and exciting, like lingerie, stockings and high heels, massages and in need some pampering, let me spoil you.

I’m attractive, sexy, sensuous, classy blue eyed 5”6 brunette. Please e-mail to me for further information at: [email protected]


Related Link: http://www.geocities.com/happiness_98_99/Helen.html  

Hello

What happens if someone who is not Anglo wants to see you.  Obviously we're speaking hypothetically!  But let's indulge eachother in this exercise?  By "Anglo" you mean white - right?  Obviously, you can choose to see whom you like but to categorically exclude every non-white client is both ignorant and probably not a good business practice given that you do not provide any photographs as to what you look like.  

Given that many gorgeous providers have not imposed such restrictions, I don't understand the logic of your restrictive policy except to conclude that your upbringing, environment and inability to let go of certain beliefs instilled into you by your parents, peers and community prevent you from growing as a person.

FearlessLeader3417 reads

"Stupid" is the perfect crime; the sentence is immediate and there is no appeal. In this case, her stupidity is out there for all to see.

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Quick_Draw4375 reads

This is very prevalent back east.
And the reason for it is that originally and still today when immigrants come to this country they stick together because of fear of other cultures i.e. language, foods, habits, even  unsimilar looks among Europeans.
Today when you go back east (northeast), it is a very much that way.

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DooDahDayDood4140 reads

Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And when you look long into an abyss, the abyss also looks into you.
--Friedrich Nietzsche

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Dr. Nguyen Van Falk3449 reads


In this case, Nietzsche might say that she is only exercising her personal right (her "will to power") and that it is our friend here who should perhaps re-evaluate his values and political correctness ("slave-morality" in Nietzsche's mind).

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Jimbomania4132 reads

It's her business, she can run it any way she so chooses.

Right or wrong, it's hers, leave it alone.

Jimbo

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onehiphippy4188 reads

thanks right you leave well enough alone. Y'a here

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sdstud4747 reads

And arguably, an escort is "public accommodation" in the legal sense.  Of course, since escorting is illegal anyways, she is simply committing a crime by deciding not to commit another crime in this case.

However, the REASON that racial discrimination is illegal in this country, is that most folks would agree that it is simply WRONG.  Yet, because escorting is a most intimate activity, there seems to be a body of opinion that she has the right to discriminate on these lines.  My personal take (and I AM anglo) is that it demonstrates a small-mindedness that I find unattractive in a lady.  So I choose never to see someone who practices this type of discrimination, and I leave it at that.

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SilkShaft3904 reads

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sdstud5009 reads

A warm place to go inside of which is provided to the general public in exchange for a fee.

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ThePatriot4035 reads

Give it a rest NW-dude. Your turning the idea of "tolerance" into oppression. Next thing you'll demand is for hobbyists to see providers of all races whether we want to or not.

 

-- Modified on 2/9/2004 11:07:21 PM

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onehiphippy4938 reads

You can always count on a conservative to  to respond disingenuous respond. Honest is a feature of a good character. So drop the subterfuge and say what you think.  I'm sure you have not real concern for "tolerance".

"So let us not talk falsely now, the hour is getting late." -Dylan

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netmichelle5506 reads

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thirsty3640 reads

probably just as well I don't live in L.A. ;)

thirsty

-- Modified on 2/10/2004 12:49:56 PM

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HarryLime4827 reads

I wonder if something has changed.  

If anglo is an abbreviation for anglo saxon, does this exclude italians, arabs, jews, people from south america, asians, ...?

Maybe somebody ought to email her and ask.  I personally don't care.   Harry

-- Modified on 2/10/2004 6:20:04 AM

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DoctorGonzo4858 reads

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PussyMistress4157 reads

I don't. It's the provider's choice on who she wants to see or not. Everyone has preferences, women and men. If a guy doesn't want to see a BBW, then he is NOT required to (by the way, I am a bbw), and if the woman has on her requirement page that she only attracted to a certain type of man's looks, what is wrong with that? Do I scream, holler, kick and shout, if I found out that someone was not attracted to my looks? No. Why should I make a big issue out of a person's shallowness? No. That is their own personal issue, that they need to deal with themselves. You should always take the higher road, and just move on without a fuss.

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thirsty5567 reads

This is not exactly the same as refusal of service at a lunch counter in the South in the 1950s. The service that these ladies offer is extremely intimate. I know a provider who is uncomfortable and therefore, refuses to see black men. She had been gang raped by a group of black men before entering the business. Does this mean that she thinks all black men are rapists? Probably not but, knowing her history, I can understand why intimacy with a black man would be difficult for her. As ThePatriot pointed out, what is the difference between a customer choosing the race/ethnicity of his provider? Should we now call for politically correct escort agencies where PC would require that the customer accept the next lady available regardless of preference?

I can't blame you for assuming that there may be racist motives here. In a perfect world, people wouldn't make decisions based on shallow reasoning. I am not a person of color but I do use a wheelchair. I have never experienced a situation where a lady admitted to me that the chair was a problem for her. Would I be surprised if I did experience such a situation? ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!

The lady is not refusing to sell you a sandwich. She is sharing a very intimate act with you. In order to share this intimacy with others, ladies all have certain rules. We accept these rules when imposed in the name of safety. We don’t talk about the OTHER RULES; the rules which help the ladies get past inhibitions which might otherwise prevent them from providing this service.

Whether it is, “I don’t see…

Black men
Old men
Young men
Fat men
Dirty men
Disabled men

Or

I don’t see ANYBODY unless I’m high!”

The lady has the right to impose these restrictions. After all, it is HER BODY!

Just MHO

thirsty

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denverdon27574405 reads

It might not be the popular position to take, not necessarily PC, but you make a very valid point.

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denverdon27575502 reads

It might not be the popular position to take, not necessarily PC, but you make a very valid point.

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SULLY3869 reads

Wells said- and besides in the south west and Miami, she simply may mean people of anglo CULTURE (as if there was one - but you know what I mean) so as to exclude only language problems for her.

I'm trying to be charitable yes-  but it IS her body!

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onehiphippy4450 reads


I think your response is very popular in the U.S. I think you know that.  The history of the U.S is very clear. Also I think you grossly misunderstood N-W-guy comments, I doubt he wants to sleep with a racist. He said he didn't understand her logic. As a non-white person myself, it does sometime seems that "Anglos" reaction to race issues is ridiculously over the top. I'm also curious about the upbringing, environment, of a  racist person. I also don't understand way these big time Christians preached racism, are pro-war, and for capital punishment.

I'm sorry that your friend was raped and but I also doubt the  race of the rapist matters matters more than the crime itself.  As you know, during Jim Crow days Black Women were not safe from gang rape and murder. Black domestics had to sleep with their bosses. Even the well known conservative Strom  Thurman has a unacknowledged.  So are all white people evil?  No because of individual responsibility. You're responsible for your acts and not the acts of people grouped  arbitrarily  with you. This is only reasonable. So Scientific American says 30% of Whites have African ancestry and 80% of Blacks have European. So it really makes no sense.

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non-whitedude3464 reads

Not to play the race card but to give some of you some perspective, I'd like to say this -  Yeah it's her body but she's putting it out there for "consumption"  I.e. in consideration for $ one gets access to to her body.  The color of money shouldn't matter.  

Based on her preference - the fact that she may be willing to see an overweight, balding, uneducated, unhygenic white guy over an immaculately clean, educated athletic black or latino is racism in and of itself.  She can go ahead and continue her preference all she wants and will get away with it since she probably lives in parts of the US where that's pretty much acceptable.  That's not the point.

The point was to see the reaction of the other members of the TER community and as suspected it mirrors that of society.  The concerns of non-whites are given very little weight or dismissed with one excuse or another.  Some of you say who cares!  Obvioulsy not your ignorant white self, that's the problem.  Very few whites are able to stand in the shoes of non-whites and try to understand why even perceived slights take good energy away and poison their minds with unproductive thoughts.  

So, when you come up with excuses for someone of that ilk, think for a second why you're doing so.  Is it hitting too close to home? and you don't want to acknowledge that you too may have some racist beliefs and want to provide some other rationale for such conduct?  If you didn't provide some other justifiable rationale, some of you would feel guilty for condoning or for feeling she's entitled to have her preferences.

Yes, the other poster is correct why would I want to waste my time, money and semen :) on such an ignorant person.  For those who didn't get it - I said indulge me in my hpothetical.  But, it just goes to show my decision never ever to consider living in certain parts of the country - the south, midwest, mountain states or any rural areas was a wise one.  Unfortunately, these areas will always be afflicted with ignorance for lack of exposure to non-whites who are equal or superior to them in terms of education, income level, social standing, etc.

Have a good day folks!

-- Modified on 2/10/2004 3:17:58 PM

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Ayoungblackwomanhere3328 reads

Why can't a provider have preferences????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? It's our business that we women are running here. I will refuse certain men who can't even act right in the head when they first approach me. Does that mean that I am discriminating against jackasses, YEPPERS, I will admit that I do then. But it's my preference, and I will do what I feel is comfortable and right for me! I don't complain when I see a long list of reviews by African-American hobbyists for the Caucasian ladies but no listing of black females on his profile. I love men of all colors, and although the races of my clients are not listed on my own TER profile, you best believe it's a rainbow coalition going there ;) Look, everyone has preferences! Lets all get over it and move on, and learn to deal with your ego. That is what is really burning those who refuse to move on and get over this hump, it's their ego's that is bothering them. Face it. We all get rejected at one time or another, but we are all adults here, and you need to learn to do the adult thing is pick up your glad rags, and be gone about your business, and leave the rest behind. Worry about your own problems, and not so much about what other's are doing with their businesses. WE ARE ALL GUILTY of some form of discrimination (and please save the drama for ya mama, and don't give me any lip-for we ALL have been there, and done it), whether we realize it or not. So, lets get over ourselves and get beyond this, and let the lady do her business the way she wants to run it. I swear I think I met some of you guys back in 1st grade, and I could have sworn we all grew up into grown adults here with different preferences, tastes, and needs. Get over it!

-- Modified on 2/10/2004 3:10:41 PM

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non-whitedude5761 reads

Hi

Yes all people providers included can have preferences - But is it right to use a filter of "race" as a blanket way to disqualify all who are not white as being "undesirable"  You mention socially inept, unhygenic men as people who you would not see - so that's legitimate.  But do you use race as a proxy for those characteristics - meaning do you equate memebers of a certain race as having certain undesirable characteristics so you totally shut them out before you give them a chance to prove otherwise by a phone/e-mail screening - it doesn't sound like it so your screening for preferences is a bit different than the method used by the person who is the subject of this discussion.

BTW: I'm not African American; I've seen providers of all races - there is beauty in every single ethnicity, race, etc.  I am only intolerant of those who are intolerant - because they poison scoiety for the rest of us and unfortunatley the posion is usually directed to those of us who are not-white.  This whole post was to see what the attitudes of TER members have to such subtlely blatent racism.  My conclusion is that many TER members think it's OK for whites to practice subtle racism so long as it's done politely.  Nothing revealing just a confirmation of what I suspected.

Have a good day. :)

-- Modified on 2/11/2004 11:46:30 AM

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SULLY4304 reads

I for one do not count myself as white.

I might be an anglo as I am an Anglo-phile and was brought up in a partially Brit household.

But if a lady says she doesn't see Jews- I might think her an anti-semitic bihac- but I would not try to see her, either to test her wares or persuade her to drop her  rule.

One has to have some faith that the bad karma will carry its own punishment and move on to all the ladies who are cool.

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RLTW5178 reads

So who's the real bigot here?

RLTW

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non-whitedude4242 reads

Why is it bigotted of me to call a white person "ignorant" based on statements made by that person to confirm their ignorance- but it's not biggotted of a white person to summarily dismiss legitimate concerns of a non-white person because he/she cannot see beyond their own limitations as to life experiences.

Why isn't the inability of a white person to step back and think maybe they have a point and I shouldn't be so dismissive since I never experienced what it's like to be treated as less than a full-fledged member of a white dominated society - an ignorant and possibly racist act.

Whites who have lived abroad in non-european cultures, i.e., in Japan where they are only sort of acknowledged but never considered part of that society can relate somewhat to what I described above - but most whites in the US have never lived abroad to have that perspective.

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stilltryin254372 reads

Maybe Bin Laden and his cohorts will simply kill us all simply because we are US citizens, or US-friendly and end this debate.  As far as race and hobbying goes, you ask for what you want and get what you get.  It's her body, and regardless of whether her reasons are stupid or harbor some deeper reality to her, let's move on, Bin Laden and his allies still have to be captured or killed.

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non-whitedude3469 reads

Thanks hippy for clarifying my message.  You hit it on the head - there really is no logic to it - rather it's an emotional act based on ignorance.  I have a strong inkling that ignorance is built from isolation.  When white folks continue to isolate themselves from the rest of the "world" ignorant, antiquated beliefs result.  So yours was only 2 out of the many responses which even remotely supported my initial expression of displeasure.  What's that say about the good 'ol USA?



-- Modified on 2/10/2004 3:19:55 PM

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sdstud4158 reads

You are assuming that this type of racism is restricted to white people.  Wrong assumption.  I have seen examples where ladies of COLOR have applied these type of restrictions.  Why?  I don't know, but I'd guess it has to do with their own biases about men of color that they have met in their personal experiences.

Personally, I find all of these biases distasteful, but I DO recognize that it is an intimate business that is based on our own innermost preferences.  I personally enjoy the entire spectrum of beauty that is woman in the world, from pale white Nordic Goddesses to Rich Ebony Goddesses, and every shade in the middle.  And let me tell you, those who would deny themselves the entire smorgasbord are simply limiting their personal horizons.  But it IS their own personal decision.  I don't choose to patronize someone who is so closed-minded, as it is the closed-mindedness itself which I find unattractive in a lady.  But you seem to enter this discussion with a chip on your shoulder about ANYONE who might have their own issues.  I say, live and let live.  These ladies are in the business of providing pleasure.  And if she knows that she will be unable to provide pleasure to YOU due to her own personal hangups, then she is doing YOU a public service by telling you to go elsewhere.

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thirsty4033 reads

This is absolutely true. However, you are also guilty of a gross misunderstanding of my point in this matter. I told this story to illustrate why this woman refused to see black customers. Right or wrong, unfair as it is, the rape made her uncomfortable seeing black men. As I wrote in another reply in this thread, Even if the world outside the escort community was perfect, can we realistically expect this "perfect world" response from the escort community? Consider the thought that many people in the escort community ON BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE (customers and providers) have difficulty relating to others in a healthy way.

thirsty

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Ayoungblackwomanhere4408 reads

I swear I swear..I am not! ;)

-- Modified on 2/10/2004 3:47:11 PM

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thirsty5233 reads

I even suggested it in a recent Boston chat. My gut tells me that many people would be afraid to speak their mind (on either side). I'll see if we can do this chat in either the Boston or Atlanta chat room.

thirsty

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SilkShaft5443 reads

The author of the original post is confused.  I chuckle at the thought of Chris Rock (or Eddie Murphy or Dave Chappell...) doing a comedy routine on a brotha' who wants to make a federal discrimination case out of this....  LOL - it would be sooo funny.

A woman, whether provider or not, has the ENTIRE authority over who gains access to her intimacies.  The same woman, in a business situation, can be perfectly capable of dealing with all races equally.

She is not stupid, she is in fact smart.  She clearly states her requirements.  I have no problem with that.

To me, the net effect is no different than a provider who charges $1500/hr.  I am excluded for economic reasons in this case.

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thirsty4800 reads

The author of the thread took exception to the fact that the agency phone person told him, "you need to tell me [the fact that you are black] ahead of time."

To me, this is the real issue. A potential client shouldn't have to find that the lady won't see him when he gets to her door. At least the provider that prompted this  current thread made it clear up front that she chooses not to see certain clients. If she makes it clear during her screening process that she won't see certain clients, can we really ask for more? When I use to play, I always identified myself to the lady at first contact as a person who uses a wheelchair. In a perfect world, I wouldn't have to do this. Our world is not there yet. Even if the world outside the escort community was perfect, can we realistically expect this "perfect world" response from the escort community? Consider the thought that many people in the escort community ON BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE have difficulty relating to others in a healthy way. I’m not trying to paint everyone with the same brush but you can make the argument that, if those of us involved in the escort community were skilled at relating to others in a more “perfect” manner, the escort community would probably not exist at least on the current scale.

thirsty

Related Link: Frustrated Male (posted on the Boston board 1/30/04)

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Vicki Nicole5271 reads

this is a very intimate business and alot of us choose to see clients based on our personal preferences
there are various reasons that do not always ONLY include rascism for why someone may prefer not to be intimate with certain groups of people
I am black but I also have a preference of only seeing caucasion and asian men.
that preference is based on negative past experiences including molestation by black men, and I tend to relive the anger, shame and guilt of those experiences when I'm intimate with black men.
It is not something I have been able to outgrow YET even with therapy so I choose not to put myself thru that just to be politically correct.
I don't want to be politically correct with MY mind and body and the two are attached.

-- Modified on 2/10/2004 10:21:58 PM

Related Link: Vicki Nicole

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Vicki Nicole6030 reads



-- Modified on 2/10/2004 10:00:57 PM

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Hugh Hefty3874 reads

As for your other comment, a few "good" TER reviews by some "good"TER reviewers is worth a thousand pictures.

-- Modified on 2/10/2004 9:09:37 AM

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non-whitedude3488 reads

Hey buddy

A provider who has nothing to hide concerning her appearance usually posts photos.  So go ahead see her and report back for the other rednecks who would probably love to see her after they get back from a NASCAR race.

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thirsty3473 reads

I respect your opinion in this matter. As a person with a disability, I have experienced my share of hurt when people see me differently. I don't pretend that this is anything close your experience.

Having said that, your opinion will carry a lot more weight if you can refrain from classless posts like this last one. The redneck, NASCAR comments...just plain ignorant!

thirsty

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Ayoungblackwomanhere4538 reads

As an African-American female, when I read non-white's comments, it  made me feel ashamed :( I just want to say that NOT ALL of us African-American people feel this way. Just like I know that I have many Caucasian brothers and sisters out there, who feel the same way as I do :) Lets ALL try to avoid these stereotypical, racist comments out of our posts, for it only tears us apart more, as a society, than bringing us together.

-- Modified on 2/10/2004 4:01:58 PM

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SULLY4687 reads

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netmichelle4836 reads

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non-whitedude4675 reads

Let's fire one up Sully!

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JonB1664480 reads

Here here. Ayoungblackwomanhere, you are someone I would love to meet. You speak for what I believe is the majority in a very eloquent manner. Thanks for speaking up against non-white's attitude. I suspect it shows he is human too. But it doesnt help anyone.

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non-whitedude5344 reads

Ah ha!  So am I reading your statement correctly that the initial post by the provider was not as offensive because it used a "polite" code word - "anglo" to denote a prefernce for whites - but my more blatent "racist" or "ignorant" usage of the terms "redenecks" and the stereotypical association with stock car racing is more offensive. Didn't you state "I'm not a racist but I am not a blind slave to Political Correctness"?

Think about from whose perspective each is just as or more offensive.  You're not as bothered by her use of "anglo" possibly because you yourself are anglo and I may not be as bothered by calling some ignorant white people rednecks because I myself am not white.

So what's the point?  Don't ever dismiss the concerns of someone who is different from you and who has had different experiences because you can never "stand" in the shoes of that person.  What my initial post proves again is that people have a hard time removing themselves from their own "baggage" upbrining experiences (myself included) and give differing and LEGITIMATE views the weight and consideration it deserves.  

Look at all the mental midgets who say that America is about freedom to discriminate and anyone who wants to change that is UNAMERICAN.  I'm sorry but that is one of most moronic statements I've heard and again confirms the level of ignorant people in this country has not decreased since the 1950s.

-- Modified on 2/11/2004 10:56:09 AM

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thirsty3086 reads

Okay, I understand your point about the provider using the polite anglo when she was clearly saying white men. She tried to sugar coat it, but we all know what she meant. So your decision was to respond with more ignorance. The term anglo or white or black is not a racist term. You chose to attack those who disagree with you with racists comments like "redneck" and "your ignorant white self."

My ignorant white self is impressed. ;)

thirsty

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non-whitedude6025 reads

Sometimes you fight fire with fire to get under the skin of those who purposely do that to you.  Just a shot across the bow that your beliefs are not justified or correct merely because you are of the dominant group in society.  

I acknowledge it was an ignorant/racist statement - but why is it OK for her make one but not for others who disagree with her.  I'm not out here to educate her or others like her - they're beyond that point in their lives.  Rather, the post was to condemn, make fun of the lack of logic of her act, infomr the ignorant of their state and to guage the reactions of others on the board.  I think my mission was accomplished.

"Beware of the tyranny of the majority"  Alexis DeTocqueville - "Democracy in America"

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stilltryin255240 reads

The provider could have reasons other than race as the basis for her add.  The best thing to do is ignore it and look for providers who do not have such restrictions.  With the increasing flux in wealth, that provider may find that one day she will have to see non-anglo hobbyist too if she plans to stay in business.

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adam464492 reads

For any reason: race, size, religion, or anything else.
This is still America, even though crybabies like you are
trying to turn it into something else.

There are plenty of places where I am not wanted, and guess what, I stay away from them. It doesn't phase me in the least
if people accept me or not, I just play the cards I was dealt.

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non-whitedude4345 reads

I do agree she has a right to do what she wants with her body. However, using "race" as a way to filter out "undesirables" is racist no matter how you slice it.

I do want to say this though: Your statement makes you look like the biggest freakin Moron on this board!

"For any reason: race, size, religion, or anything else.
This is still America, even though crybabies like you are
trying to turn it into something else."

So what is America to you - a place where your ignorant white self gets to do whatever he wants and ensure that non-whites stay in their place; a place where nothing is done to evolve from it's racist past and live up to the ideal of "EQUALITY" it holds itself out as a defender of?  So what is it Moron?

Hopefully, your kind dies off and your offspring, if any, do not harbor such ignorant thoughts in their heads and they are independent enough to know that Daddy's beliefs are ignorant.


-- Modified on 2/11/2004 11:48:37 AM

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nameless4545 reads

Non-whitedude, you're clearly so angry that logic and reasonable thought are beyond you at this point!  Give it a rest - not everyone is as racist as you think.  Indeed, you appear to be more racist than most.  Your comment about NASCAR is particularly dumb (I'm white, and I could care less about NASCAR).  But the most idiotic thing you said was that America is "a place where nothing is done to evolve from its racist past and live up to the ideal of equality."  Oh really?  Are things today exactly the same as they were in the (say) 1940's or 1950's?  Has there been no improvement in racial equality?  Sure, things can always get better, but that's not to say that nothing's been done.  I suggest you get a grip on yourself and realize that not all white people are bad, and that not all nonwhite people are good.  There's good and bad in all races.  And if a provider doesn't want to be intimate with someone, WHATEVER THE REASON, so be it.  Go on to someone else, or use your hand if need be.  The fact is that no-one really cares what you think about this subject because rational thought is not your strong point!

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danfrommass4870 reads

the more you post the more  stupid you sound. she prefers anglos..big friggin deal !!!!!! ,maybe you got no requirements and youll stick your dick wherever or more likelly in whomever will take it. maybe she choses to get it on with people shes attracted too ! why dont you stop your friggin crying, must be nice to go through life and everytime you dont see something your way ,just raise up the ole fuggin , ohhhh its because im not white issue...how really fucking lame....wish i had the ultimate crybaby excuse to fall back on when i dont get something my way.pathetic doesnt even come close to describe what i feel about you.......but im sure youll say its, because your non-white ......so fucking pathetic

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non-whitedude4492 reads

Hey Friends

It's not about using race as an excuse.  If you had read my post carefully.  You would know that I was insinuating that what Adam 46 seems to prefer from his statement is an "america that does nothing" NOT America Has DONE nothing to evolve from its racist past.  So both of you need to read words carefully before you both spew knee jerk reactions that I'm some pathetic "minority" always using race as an excuse.  It's your projection of your own beliefs about those who are not of your ilk that's coloring your own rational thought.  

So I say to you stay in the great white north of Mass or wherever you're from and spew the hate there.  I in fact get along with a wide circle of friends, co-workers of all races (many white people included), ethnicities, ages, genders and sexual orientation - so I don't think I could go through life "crying" as you say and be able to keep these people as friends, lead a career in my profession and maintain good business relations if I "cryed wolf" concerning race.  

If again you had read my initial post there was no race baiting but only after several half hearted disingenous, and or dismissive comments from closet haters made their way onto to the boards did I resort to fighting fire with fire.

A way to communicate with the ignorant unfortunately is to go down to their level to get your licks in and that is what I chose. Obviously, you've proven your mental capacity by taking the bait (notice the same was done by injecting the term "Great White North" above). Let's see what other example of a pavlovian response you utter in response to such stimuli! :)  So I say to you my friend, good day.

-- Modified on 2/11/2004 5:02:48 PM

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nameless4006 reads

OK, let's see if I have this right.  Your original post said "I don't understand the logic of your restrictive policy except to conclude that your upbringing, environment and inability to let go of certain beliefs instilled into you by your parents, peers and community prevent you from growing as a person."  Whew, you got everyone involved - parents, peers, community - all racists.  That is most definitely the implication, and obviously the INTENT.  So there indeed was a racist undertone in the original post, although is was worded rather well.  But the whole point of all this is simply that we all have preferences as to who we want to have sex with, and race is one of the factors.  Not wanting to be intimate with a person of a particular race is not racism - denying them equal rights as everyone else is.  So why don't you just go back to all your friends of all races, ages, genders, etc. and drop the matter.  BTW, the past tense of "cry" is "cried," not "cryed."

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non-whitedude5184 reads

Thank you nameless for the grammatical advice I usually catch those but obviously we're writing on the fly.  But I guess you're making the implication of my inadequcies as a writer - shall I say based on race? :-) Only kidding, really.  Just want to lighten the mood.

Well, my initial statements are just as subtlely "racist" as the provider's specifying her preference using "anglo."  But, I disagree when you say that people who discriminate solely based on race when it comes to personal matters/intimacy is not racism.  

Racism is using race as the filter - not giving the individual a chance to prove certain beliefs/stereotypes to be false.  Obviously, society can't legislate who people become initimate with, but that doesn't mean it isn't a racist practice.  I just called her on it and brought attention to the board.  

As to making the implication that her community, parents, peers etc. may be racist - well where do children learn stereotypes - not from other kids - they learn it from adults so I stand by my statement.  The first step for alcoholics in recovery is to acknowledge there's a problem.  America has not fully acknowledged that racism, albeit in a more subtle form, still exists and until attitudes change society will not change.

But, I now know that most other people do not care, think I'm overreacting, and do not like it when I make statements purposely designed to be antagonistic to others sense of self when it comes to stereotypes, race, etc.  So now you know how it feels to have someone make statements designed to put someone down.  Not a fun experience is it.

But anyway I enjoyed our exchange and hope you have a good rest of the week.  Really.  :)

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non-whitedude4604 reads

P.S. - the only criteria I have so far as having sex with a person are: 1) am I attracted to her 2) is she clean and maintain good standards of hygiene and 3) she is not a psychotic mental case who will cause me grief in the long run!

Race isn't a factor!  There are beautiful women across all races, groups etc.  Explore the world folks!

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nameless3616 reads

I think you and I have different concepts of what it means to be racist, nonwhitedude.  To me, denying people human rights because of their race is racism, discriminating against people in the workplace, education, etc. where advancement is crucial to quality of life because of their race (or creed) is racism (or prejudice).  But not wanting to be intimate with someone because of their race (or body shape or hygiene) is, to me, not racism.  To me, it's equivalent to simply being aware that the person sitting next to you in the subway is a different race than you - being aware of racial differences (they do exist, as I'm sure you know) does not make one a racist.

You started this thread, despite protestations to the contrary, to "stir the pot."  I think you got more of a reaction than you bargained for, and have spent a good deal of time trying to "prove" to people (presumably white) that they are racist.  Some may well be, but most, I think, simply disagree with you on certain aspects of this subject.  Someone in an earlier post said that you have "a chip on your shoulder," and to be truthful, it does appear that way.  Does that make you a racist?  Some on this board would definitely say yes.  I'll reserve judgement on that.  What I do know is that you're obviously intelligent, and in all matters unrelated to this topic (where you clearly start with a strong, and perhaps thoroughly understandable bias) you'd likely be a very enjoyable person to be around.

I strongly agree with your criteria for having sex with a person.  The only thing I would add is that race can play a role in being attracted to someone.  That's just the way it is.  I know there must be certain things about me that simply do not "turn on" some females.  So be it.  There are many more that can deal with those things that turn off others.  I can live with that, and you should be able to live with the fact that you're an intelligent, decent, honest man that means no harm to others.  Isn't that what's really important?

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nameless3835 reads

I think you and I have different concepts of what it means to be racist, nonwhitedude.  To me, denying people human rights because of their race is racism, discriminating against people in the workplace, education, etc. where advancement is crucial to quality of life because of their race (or creed) is racism (or prejudice).  But not wanting to be intimate with someone because of their race (or body shape or hygiene) is, to me, not racism.  To me, it's equivalent to simply being aware that the person sitting next to you in the subway is a different race than you - being aware of racial differences (they do exist, as I'm sure you know) does not make one a racist.

You started this thread, despite protestations to the contrary, to "stir the pot."  I think you got more of a reaction than you bargained for, and have spent a good deal of time trying to "prove" to people (presumably white) that they are racist.  Some may well be, but most, I think, simply disagree with you on certain aspects of this subject.  Someone in an earlier post said that you have "a chip on your shoulder," and to be truthful, it does appear that way.  Does that make you a racist?  Some on this board would definitely say yes.  I'll reserve judgement on that.  What I do know is that you're obviously intelligent, and in all matters unrelated to this topic (where you clearly start with a strong, and perhaps thoroughly understandable bias) you'd likely be a very enjoyable person to be around.

I strongly agree with your criteria for having sex with a person.  The only thing I would add is that race can play a role in being attracted to someone.  That's just the way it is.  I know there must be certain things about me that simply do not "turn on" some females.  So be it.  There are many more that can deal with those things that turn off others.  I can live with that, and you should be able to live with the fact that you're an intelligent, decent, honest man that means no harm to others.  Isn't that what's really important?

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nameless4923 reads

I think you and I have different concepts of what it means to be racist, nonwhitedude.  To me, denying people human rights because of their race is racism, discriminating against people in the workplace, education, etc. where advancement is crucial to quality of life because of their race (or creed) is racism (or prejudice).  But not wanting to be intimate with someone because of their race (or body shape or hygiene) is, to me, not racism.  To me, it's equivalent to simply being aware that the person sitting next to you in the subway is a different race than you - being aware of racial differences (they do exist, as I'm sure you know) does not make one a racist.

You started this thread, despite protestations to the contrary, to "stir the pot."  I think you got more of a reaction than you bargained for, and have spent a good deal of time trying to "prove" to people (presumably white) that they are racist.  Some may well be, but most, I think, simply disagree with you on certain aspects of this subject.  Someone in an earlier post said that you have "a chip on your shoulder," and to be truthful, it does appear that way.  Does that make you a racist?  Some on this board would definitely say yes.  I'll reserve judgement on that.  What I do know is that you're obviously intelligent, and in all matters unrelated to this topic (where you clearly start with a strong, and perhaps thoroughly understandable bias) you'd likely be a very enjoyable person to be around.

I strongly agree with your criteria for having sex with a person.  The only thing I would add is that race can play a role in being attracted to someone.  That's just the way it is.  I know there must be certain things about me that simply do not "turn on" some females.  So be it.  There are many more that can deal with those things that turn off others.  I can live with that, and you should be able to live with the fact that you're an intelligent, decent, honest man that means no harm to others.  Isn't that what's really important?

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florida328353212 reads

Does she offend you because she prefers only whites?  Granted from a business perspective, her stance doesn't help her, but that's her choice.  I've never seen a black provider, does that make me a racist?  Hope not.  I prefer white blonde blue eyed ladies.

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flyaway344574 reads

So in all of the ranting you've been doing the only point I can pull out is that you're doing a less than scientific study of the general attitudes of the TER membership.  Yet you choose to argue against many of the replies to your original & unsolicited question.  If you're looking to change people's minds/feelings about race forget it!  If you're just stating the painfully obvious fact that racism still exists in all facets of American culture - well most of us already know that, and I don't recall anyone asking you to educate us.  

Mostly I think you like mental masturbation and stirring up the pot.  IMO you should stick to physical masturbation and leave the rest of us alone as this forum is not here for debate of controversial and politically charged topics.  I for one wouldn't give a good god damn if a non-white provider wouldn't see anyone who was white, or for that matter if a nazi provider wouldn't see Jews.  Those who clamor for first amendment rights and freedoms must remember that the price to pay for that right is that you must honor and protect everyone's access to it, even if that means their beliefs are 180 degrees opposing and offensive to your own.

Live and Let Live!

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non-whitedude4261 reads

Ha!- finally someone who sees the forest and not just the trees.  

Actually, it wasn't to be up on a soap box.  I truly wanted to see the reaction of others and obtain confirmation of what I suspected the group reaction to be.  I was truly offended by the provider's post but had no intent to try to change minds, nor any interest in getting her to see me - just wanted to poke some fun at a closed minded person.

But what resulted was some sparring with folks who took it way too seriously and started slamming me, my mental capacities, ego, etc. So I ran with it and injected some controversial comments to "fight fire w. fire"  There were some genuine differences of opinion and some alarmingly ignorant statements made.  Anyway, it was fun - hope no one blew a gasket over this!

Your post is well taken - I will swear off mental masturbation and put the ladle down on the counter - the pot is clam.

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nameless5794 reads

My prior post appeared in triplicate, although I'm not sure why.  At any rate, why don't we all just agree to disagree (at least on what to call this particular facet of human sexual desire), and leave it at that.  May everybody enjoy life to its fullest!

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non-whitedude3688 reads

Yes - let's leave it on your last post, which is probably where this whole discussion was destined to end in any event.  I do appreciate your comments and your thoughtful input into this thorny issue.

I do not going around thinking all whites are racist.  I do however let people's actions (but only after I have given them the benefit of the doubt) determine my initial opinion of them.  So, when I (with my own past baggage) saw certain responses coded or otherwise, there was a natural inclination to inform a particular person of my disagreement with their views and in sort of a mischeivous way, put in a zinger myself for that person to deal with.  Was it PC of me to do so - no.

Anyway - hope that you have a nice holiday.

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