Being honest about this perplexing issue, and ruling out freak occurrences of seemingly lasting tenure, I'd have to say that the odds are definitely not in favor of such relationships. Jusk ask women in the porn industry. Monogamous pair-bonding, even if temporary, is so unique and (apparently) critical to humans that it's almost a defining characteristic when "love" is on the table (not the case for all higher primates).

There's an old saying (in another tongue) that any man who says he's ok with his woman sleeping around is doubly the fool, once for lying to himself and twice for believing it.

You/He wrote:
"This is only because i am learning more about a chick that interests me (in many ways) and it it is odd to think of romance, etc when I hear about guys, clients, etc. Does this make sense? Don't shrink back,  talk all you want, express your thoughts fully, but realize this.  Ease me into this a bit "

I'm not sure where the bad part is here, except maybe the part about "this is only" - not sure what that phrase means.  Certainly the part that says "interests me (in many ways)" is good.   "Don't shrink back" sounds good, too.

What am I missing?

Now ... to answer your questions(s)... I think you're right, honesty is the way to go.  And yes, there are many, MANY men who aren't going to be able to 'handle it' for various reasons, insecurity being the main one, with a litany of reasons following until you finally just get down to "it's too wierd"

In the Stripper Business, men spend tens of thousands of dollars to capture the interest of the exotic, sexy woman they met, attracted primarily BECAUSE of her exotic profession, and then upon finally winning her heart, the very first and only thing they want her to do is quit the business.   I've seen the same thing in this business, too.

The part that seems hopeful about the conversation you've quoted, and even if not ... the most valuable advice, is the part about "ease me into it."   That's solid advice.  But having said that, it's advice with a pit-fall.

I'd suggest being up front about the occupation right away.  Maybe not just "I'm a hooker"  but maybe like "I used to be a porn star, but now I'm playing to smaller audiences." - something to give him a hint, but the ability to laugh it off if he's not the type to take it straight.

The most important thing is to ease into the DETAILS.   Yes, they'll have a million questions and you probably need to be nonchalant about it, subtley sending him the message with each answer that it's JUST a job.  In my expereince, which is considerable, it's not the JOB ITSELF that turns them off ... it's the details that THREATEN THEM.  

Inside most men that date providers there is a part that wonders if today, tomorrow or next week, she'll run into a man that she'd rather be involved with and they can't stand the feeling of their relationship being tested that way every day.

"I meet a lot of nice men, but I never ever fool myself about why they are seeing me."   "It can be fun meeting so many different people, but it's just an occupation."  "Just like a doctor, I save my emotional attachements for outside of work."

Things like that.

All said, any way you go, it's a tough line to walk, because very few outside the business ever really 'get it' and I suspect you'll have to kiss many MORE frogs to find the Prince than the average girl ....  but the one you finally find will be worth the effort.

I am now in the same boat as many of you with the question about telling any new men in your life..

My FB knew because he was my best friend already and we were talking one night about being on our death beds and having any regrets of things we hadn't yet done, and I said I still would like to make my fantasy of being a Courtesan come true, and he actually helped me get started, as it was a huge turn on for him also.
Our relationship is a complex one, and not something I really care to talk about, but you all are hearing it first - that our relationship has taken a new turn - as it should and as I anticipated.
The one thing that hit me in the face recently was that I was 'spoiled' in that he knew. But, going forward, how will it be?

I operate my life on honesty and being an escort is the only thing that is cloaked from everyone else. I not only have much to protect (as everyone else), but I keep this away from everyone in order to protect the whole system (clients).
I was recently VERY tempted to tell my close GF who came down to SD to help me for a few days when I came home from the hospital. I'm glad I didn't and won't tell anyone. The ones who can hurt you the most are the ones closest to you.

I wish I had the words of wisdom to give you, IW, but I don't and only time will tell. I guess either dating someone that's somewhat in the 'lifestyle' to begin with might be one way (swing scene, AFF, etc.). I think if you're seeing someone while presently escorting, he should know. It's only fair and right to inform someone where they stand with sexual risk.
If, however, you're dating someone and you're no longer an escort, and it's in the past, I think waiting to see how much they care for you, and waiting to have sex with them, might be best. Remember, they can still hurt you with that information.

While I love what I do, and am proud of what it means to me and to the gentlemen and see much of it as a good thing, most people will not.
When someone knows your heart and your soul already, they can only be more open to what you say, and who you are.

I'm sorry I don't have anything more concrete, but perhaps we can open up the Provider Night Chat with this topic, and EVEN I (I'm not into chat) may join.

Welcome back, IW.

Sedona


-- Modified on 2/13/2004 12:26:46 PM

I can't begin to know what it's like to be a provider and perform the numerous balancing and juggling acts that accompany this profession. But I believe that if you were untruthful about your occupation when entering into a new romance then you are not only doing harm to your new love but harm to yourself as well. Don't lie to yourself. Be honest about who you are and don't ever sacrifice your identity to appease another -- that's not a good foundation for a long-lasting romantic relationship. I'm sure it can be extremely difficult to bring this up in conversation. But it would be much harder to discuss if you got into a fully committed relationship and he discovered it inadvertantly. Then he would feel that he couldn't trust you because you lied from the beginning. And all along, you would be angry with yourself for withholding the truth and possibly resent him for feeling that he would leave you if he ever found out. Love is never conditional -- only relationships are.

And yes, I would and have dated a provider. But that's another story for another day. LOL

I think that all of you ladies are the most amazing women.

There is a difference between a date and a relationship and a RELATIONSHIP.  People you date don't need to know what you do  Men you have a relationship with might not need to know what you do.  Men you want to have a RELATIONSHIP with should probably know.  Only your heart knows what you are having and how do break the news.

Good luck in all this...Harry

I could honestly say that I would be OK with it.  It might be a little tougher if kids were involved, but I'm sure I could handle it if it was just the two of us.

We all engage in careers that often suck the life out of us.  They just ave a different set of challenges.

As long as her interest in romantic interludes with ME didn't diminish, I'd be all for it.  I'm not going to be hypocritical and say that it's OK for me to have an "open" situation, and not for her.

Besides, something about "professionals" being more skilled than lay people, er people who get laid, er... oh nevermind.

"As a man, do you really think you could date a provider?"  Difficult question IW.  But the short answer is "Yes".  The long answer will probably bore you but here goes.

The Ladies I have seen are some of the strongest I have ever met.  They appear to have exceptional control over their emotions and have seperated them completely from they business, which I am sure is very difficult.  I don't mean to say that they have no feelings for their customers.  How could a provider not have feeling for a regular, either good or bad?  What I mean is they don't allow themselve to become emotionally involved with their customers.  To do this they must be strong, hence my first statement.

If one truely feel that a provider has such control over her emotions for her clients, then yes, one could easily date and possibly go farther with a provider.  One could take solice in the fact that a provider was opening herself up and sharing this strongly guarded portion of her life.  But, in order to do this, one would also have to have control of their emotions, especially jealousy, realizing that a provider provides sex to her clients, not love.  That is the crux of the problem.  If the provider were in another profession, say seamstress or computers, there would be no reason for jealousy.  But a provider has a very close physical relationship with her clients and we have been conditioned for our entire life to equate love and sex.  So, how does one know that the provider will not find a client she prefers over her SO?  One doesn't.  That is why one would have to have strong control over their emotions, and rein in this doubt, TRUSTING the provider completely.  Conversly the provider would have to realize and appreciate how difficult this is for her SO.

Doesn't this pose another questions?  Can you, as a provider, appreciate how difficult it is for your date or SO?  How would you, as a provider, help the date or SO to trust you?

"Is it best just not to tell?"  Not a difficult question at all.  Short answer "No".  Posed a different way, How would you feel if you found out that your SO was a provider having intimate relations with others?  You've trusted this person and you find he has violated this trust.  Wouldn't you want to know before you got in the relationship so you could adjust you mind and control your emotions?  Your date should be given the opportunity.  If he says he can handle it, only time will tell.

The "other party wants me to disregard being a provider if and when I'm with him".  Well, I don't think this is unusual.  For argument purposes, let say you're a computer programmer and your date is an accountant.  You had an exceptionally difficult day, system crashing around the world, programs not operating correctly and you come home and want to share the little nuances of you job.  Wouldn't you just bore that poor accountant to death or make him feel inferior because his computer appitude is less than yours?  Isn't it even more so with you as a provider?  What are you going to share with him, how good your clients were or how many times you got off?  Aren't you going to make him feel inferior if you do so, creating doubt which erodes the trust I talked about earlier?  I agree, leave work at work, enjoy your time together.

Hope this helps.

I am sure glad I am not faced with this one. It is a difficult one at best.

Were I in your place and felt that this is a relationship that I would like to see go somewhere, I think I would chose to be honest, as you have done, right up front. IMHO, two of the key underpinnings to any and all significant "love" relationships is trust and respect. Were you to lie now and need to be honest later, (as you will need to be at some point in time, I can assure you) you may destroy, or severely dent, the 'trust" aspect of the relationship and your dishonesty can also be interpreted as not having respect by the gentleman in question. I think it also correct and fair for the gentleman to have the information up front, especially if you do not plan on changing your career to suit his feelings and wishes, so that he can decide now if he wishes to continue the relationship or not.

I, for one, don't think I can be comfortable entering into a singular, life long relationship with a woman who wishes to keep providing. Of course, I have never been faced with this in real life so I don't really know what I would chose to do but, it would be a very difficult thing for me to become comfortable with. In my case, I would be really pissed at you for keeping the secret and "playing me along", so to speak, and for NOT providing me with the opportunity to make MY OWN decision about what I wish to do under these circumstances.

Were the situation reversed and I was the one who could elect to "keep the secret", I would not, as that would be unfair to her for the very same reasons I commented on above.

-- Modified on 2/13/2004 10:59:14 AM

I have heard variations of the following story from ladies I have seen.  It puts the situation in a positive light.

This is an amalgam of a number of stories.

"Dating sucks.  I have had boyfriends, but a lot of them turned out to be creeps.  Then for a long time I had no relationship.  One day I was having lunch with a friend and she told me about this exciting activity she was involved in.  She puts an ad on an internet site, and arranges dates with guys as an escort.  She loves it.  She can control who she sees and when and for how long.  She says that she has not had any weirdos, and it has been a blast.
"So I tried it, and I had a lot of fun.  Do you want me to tell you more...?"

-- Modified on 2/13/2004 12:22:57 PM

I think for alot of guys this would put a damper on things, especially those that don't understand the industry.  As someone above said, there's dating, relationships, and Relationships.  I go out on a few dates and see if there's anything there.  If things get to the point where theres a relationship then tell him that you like him and respect him and that because of that you want to tell him something.  Prior to this just don't lie about what you do.  Either say that you can't or would rather not talk about your job or be vague.

If he's worth having I think he'd be completely understanding about why you couldn't say anything up front and appreciate that you brought the subject up when you did.

Good Luck,

JTH

"I wonder if it can ever work with me being honest about providing."

Maybe it won't, but one thing you can be sure about: it will NOT work with you be DIShonest.  That's almost virtually guaranteed to blow up in your face.

A lot of guys won't be able to handle it.  *I* probably wouldn't.  The thing is, the sooner you weed out those guys, the less heartbreak and time-wasting there will be.
---
And let me share something.  (This is a little off-topic, but not completely.)  I haven't actually "hobbied" in a couple of months.  Instead, I've been hanging around on one of those networking/dating websites, trying to meet other singles in my area.  There's this one girl who I ran into, who is into some weird shit.  Not providing, but (sorry, I'm going to keep this vague) some pretty unusual practices.  If she had sprung it on me after a few dates, I might have freaked out, or just told her, "hey, that's not my thing.  Whatever floats your boat is fine, babe, but let's go our separate ways" and LJBFed her.

But that's not what happened, because right there in her profile, she talks about the weird stuff.  It's right up front.

Look at what this upfront honesty does: it makes it MY problem to deal with, rather than an awkward moment for HER.  And it gives me time to think about it and get over it, without a sudden surprise, when I don't already have an emotional investment in her.  And get over it, I did.  It even made her more interesting to me!  So I contacted her.  (Alas no juicy story: it didn't work out anyway, but for reasons totally unrelated to the weird stuff she was into.)
---
Maybe something like that can work out for you.  If a guy gets shocked later, that can't be good.  But if he knows what he's getting into, and then after he knows, he still calls you .. well, that would be pretty cool, huh?

I feel compelled to weigh in on this one.  We can all talk until we're blue in the face, but the fact remains that some men can handle this, and some (most) can't.  Most men can totally come to grips with the understanding that virtually all women that they meet have been with other men before them.  What matters is what happens AFTER a relationship (some form of commitment) between them commences.  At that point, vitually all men want some form of fidelity, and expect the woman to cease seeing other men (and vice-versa).

This holds even when the woman in question is a provider.  While admittedly an extreme situation, it can work if you are willing to make a commitment to him and cease being a provider.  I know of 2 cases where this happened.  One led to marriage, and the other, well, we'll see.  But if you insist on continuing your profession, I'd say the chances of a successful relationship are zero to none.

Re:Being honest about your profession

Sometimes things get a bit more complicated than you intended, don't they?

I agree with Megapig, and have a couple thoughts to add:

I think it can work better if you're honest than if you hold back the truth about your work.  If you're seeking true intimacy, then honesty is absolutely essential!

One of the great ironies about your profession is that it can be terribly lonely.  As you begin to discuss your work with a new love, make sure he understands this, because you can build on that to help him understand that the intimacy you create for work does not reach the depths of intimacy you hope to find with him.  In other words, if all your relationship needs were being met at work, you would not have sought him out.

It's very important for him to understand the difference between what you do for work and what you may eventually do with him, if your relationship goes that way.  

Megapig is right about the details.  JuneCleavage also wrote a great post a couple weeks ago about what a man should be prepared for when dating a provider.  

I served for many years in the military, and for more than half of it, performed a job which involved a high degree of secrecy.  It took me a while to come to terms with what was appropriate for me to discuss about my work and what was not; I killed my chances for a second date once when the woman asked, "So, what do you do?" by joking, "I basically get paid to blow things up."  Trust me, don't be glib about your work.

If he's like me and has a creative imagination, you will have to share some details of what you do in order to make his imagination your ally.  If you have to cancel a date with him because of a client, tell him why, and make sure he knows that if you didn't have to work, you'd much rather be with him.  Left entirely to his own thoughts, he may construct a mental image of what you do with your clients that is entirely unwarranted and hurtful.

When you are together, make sure he knows why you like him and the things you do with him that are for him alone.  When you are letting yourself be vulnerable for him, make sure he knows it.  

As with any new relationship, it's important to establish boundaries, and one of them absolutely needs to be that you be allowed to work as long as you choose.  There are aspects of any profession that are inconvenient for one's personal life and require sacrifice...yours should not be treated any differently.

One final thing: Never accept anything less than his absolute respect.  

Okay, so that was more than a couple thoughts...

Yoda

Let me start off by saying that I think it is very important to be honest with a person you are dating about what you do .
Because I believe one of the most important foundations of a great relationship is honesty ,
If you have to start of a relationship with a lie ...........well what type of relationship is that ??


and yes this is going to be hard .No not many men can deal with it . Even if they say they can , they can't .
Especially if it is a man from the "square world" .
Someone who is a hobbyist can be more understanding about your profession .


The guys you meet through those online dating services will not except you for you . they will judge you and not except that this is just a profession. like being a message therapist , or psychologist , or sex therapist .....and if you did find a guy that does understand you are very very lucky .


Most girls I know who have BF's or SO's usually they were first a client .
Some girls I know who got married and retired , are living with men they met ( not clients )  and they never told them about their past .


I notice when I tell people ( men or women ) right upfront what I do for a living they will go - OH , and then look down on me .
If I wait a bit to tell them and let them get to know me as a person then the reaction is - oh , that's cool .
But I am talking about people who are friends , not a BF or SO .


Once while I was working at a LEGAL brothel I met this guy in a club when I was on vacation . We hit it off. He was very impressed by me , my travels the fact that I speak 5 languages .yada yada .....by the 3rd date the question came up -
so what do you do for a living ??
I decided I wasn't going to lie and live a double life ( that is very hard I tried to do that once )
So I said - I work as a LEGAL prostitute in a Nevada brothel.
The guy said - Come on seriously , what do you do for a living ??
I said - I am serious .
He said - No really ?
I said - Why would I lie about that ?
He looked at me very puzzled and in disbelief ,
Are you really telling me the truth ?
I said - Yes............
Silent fell , then he said , oh well I am sorry but this date is over .

I was hurt , because I felt like.............. what has changed ? I am still the same person , I still speak 5 languages......
But later I thought to myself , from now on any person who wants to be around me will have to except what I do for a living and not judge me for it ...................if they can't they don't deserve me .
I am not a shamed of who I am ,. I am proud of what I do and of what I give to my clients . and it isn't JUST sex.

And that is how it is!! every person around me knows what I do they except me for me .Of course no BF or SO .

I once dated a guy who was a client and even though he said he can deal with what I do he would always say to me - your going to find someone richer and better looking for me .
I would say - if that is what I wanted I could have long ago been with someone richer and better looking . but I am with you and it isn't about looks or money , I love you .
But he was still insecure no matter how much I would try to reassure him  . Needless to say it took a toll on the relationship and that was the end of that relationship .


I don't think a therapist can help you . They are all about that this biz is wrong , they don't understand .
A therapist will probably try to talk to you to leave the biz . trying to analyze why your in the biz in the first place ......lack of love ,need for attention ,  sexually abused blah blah blah . They don't understand some are doing this because we like it and the money is good . No childhood issues behind choice of the profession


My advise to you ,Date and have fun . if you are dating someone who doesn't know what you do ,  he doesn't have to know unless it starts to become serious . yes you should   be honest , and yes  you may risk he will not stick around ,  but what can you do .
You want to end up with someone who excepts you for you . Even if you retired you want to be with someone you can talk about this part of your life ., Cause whether you like it or not ..  it is part of your life and you can not hide from that .

The guy you met on line had a gazillion questions because he was curious , and it is interesting to hear all the stories .... but when reality sinks in I doubt he will be able to handle it .

I am not trying to be negative about this I am just talking from experience ........because I have been there done that many times .

But don't give up , someday you will meet that one who you can be open and honest with . I just think it will probably be an ex client  Good luck and don 't be down on yourself . Be proud of who and what you are !! If someone can't handle that well their loss someone else's gain
If you want to talk more you are welcome to email me in private  [email protected]

All  the best  xoxo CindySpice

I can't imagine a meaningful, lasting relationship where you couldn't be honest with your partner.  Especially if the thing that you're neglecting to tell them is that you happen to be a provider.

Frankly, and I know this is hypocritical; I would be very suspicious of any guy who really was okay knowing his mate is a provider.  And I know from past conversations on this topic that at least some providers feel the same way.

I'm not in your shoes, but for most women I think that if you do choose to be a provider the best plan is to do it for 5 years, save a lot of money and then move on to your next career.  (I know that's a broad generalization because some of the providers here seem to be getting along fine with their chosen profession.)  Then you can settle down with someone.  If you find some guy before then, and he's really worth it, then you can get out then.

Personally I would have no problem having a serious relationship with an "ex" provider, but I would never pursue one with an active provider, if for no other reason than I would be too worried about their safety.  (Same reason I wouldn't date a cop either.)

Good luck.  You sound very sincere and thoughtful.  I think very few people are really cut out to be a provider.  If it's not for you then don't do it.

intended regarding his views on this profession. If extremely favorable, only then could you even dream of pursuing this further. IMHO

In short, I think you have an ethical responsibility to tell him if you become sexually involved because he will be at higher risk for contracting diseases etc.  Yeah, they're condoms, but he should know of the higher risk he'll put his body through and whether he wants to take that risk anyway.  Not to mention if he expects this to be a monogamous relationship, then ditto.  

If you're adament in keeping this hobby under wraps and he seems the like type of guy who could only accept monogamy, I'd end the relationship and make up a reason.

Dear Interesting Woman, I've read all the responses to your post and there is a lot of info -some contradictory - for you to sort out. I really do not think that,over time, a RELATIONSHIP [as HL puts it] will survive. There are limits to how much of our personnal selves we can share with others.[ie other than with  our SO] This goes for both genders. On another note, I would look again at your friend's response. I think the tone of it is more "purient interest" than friendly concern. Also, and maybe this is just me, but refering to a woman as a "chick" is at best demeaning, and at worse outright disrespectful. Good luck in your new environment, and I hope that you can sort out all of your concerns and be happy. BTW, it also sounds like being away from all that you were familiar with [as confining as that may have been] is adding to to the pressure for having someone other than clients in your life.

I have to admit that I get asked often if I have a boyfriend. My answer is always an honest one: "No"!

I couldn't find it in my heart to start dating someone romantically and not be honest with him about my evening escapades. We all know that this business deters many men from being in a committed relationship with us. Plus, my escorting is a very private part of my life. Sometimes I wish I could tell everyone and have it over with and say, "So what -- who cares. Get over it!" However, because I work in the media it makes it impossible right now. The fact that I'm busy with other freelance work helps me keep my head on straight and I certainly am indepedent so I don't feel the need for a steady relationship right now anyway. I guess I'd have mixed feelings about being in a relationship with the guy knowing what I do at night. After all, I would be relieved that he would know and certainly be very grateful that he would accept it, but there is a part of me that is old-fashioned (believe it or not). There's that small part of me that wouldn't want a man to be comfortable with me seeing someone else. I don't know, maybe it would work, maybe not. I haven't tried it yet.

Hugs & romance to everyone out there,
Ciara

I'm quite sure I can handle dating, living with, or being married to a provider.  Not that I'm looking for that when I arrange a "date", however.  Just if it came up or developed...

I'm pretty reasonable on most matters in life, and I've dated strippers in the past without all the jealousy that surrounds most of those type of relationships.

I also believe that dealing with a SO who is not faithful is much more difficult than being in a relationship with a provider, where all the cards are (or should be) on the table.  It's not about the sex, it's about the trust.

Because of that, honesty is the best policy.  Keep your chin up and keep looking, there must be others out there.

atl_mgr