So I noticed a discussion on the Newbie Board where P411 was the main topic of debate: Is P411 a valuable tool for screening?

When I joined P411, I had to provide P411 two provider vouches, real life info and everything was verified by P411 - down to a call to my workplace! Also, my P411 number includes elements from my ID... a provider can verify it is actually me by checking my ID for a few simple numbers. P411 actually encourages this as a way to ensure the client is the person in the P411 profile.

It seems to me, that if used properly, P411 remains a great screening tool for providers. However, since Gina sold the business, I am not sure if the same rigor has been used to screen guys joining P411.  

Does anyone know if P411 continues to screen new guys so rigorously? Are providers aware of the link between ID and P411 ID# for the guys, and how this can be used for screening?

What are your thoughts on the current state of P411?

I can't say anything about their current screening.  I've been a lifetime member since they started

I have been a member for several years.  Gina owned the company when I got screened. I am not sure who was more thorough at the time P-411 or the IRS. Needless to say it was in depth. As far as the value of it I will continue to be a member ( just sent in two years fee ). When traveling it is irreplaceable. The top providers in any big city are almost always  members. I do think they need to update the web site for easer use ( communicating )  and pictures. New providers need to be recruited also. If changes are not made I am not sure p-411 will be very relevant in 10 or so years.    

I joined back in 2017. I didn't get screened.

I had seen P411 and debated about trying to join and decided against it. A lady I visited mentioned it and asked if I ever thought about joining, and I told her I had pretty much decided against it. She told me that if she gives me a referral I'll get 6 months free.

Hmmm  I thought. At least I could try it with no strings attached. And it wasn't like I had to pay for a year and then I'd get the 6 months on the back end. It was just 6 months. So I agreed. I don't know if she got anything out of the referral, but good for her if she did.

Anyway, she sent me an email and I clicked the link. Signed up and provided the basic info for my account and submitted. No work info, no name, no nothing. About 20 minutes after submitting I got an email saying that my membership was approved. Bam.

I've been a member ever since. I don't know if it works the same for clients with provider referrals anymore of if they give the 6 months free.  

I find it invaluable. I try to see only P411 providers and always reach out with a PM there when I am looking to meet for the first time. Only once did a provider need more info - every other time my recent okays is all it takes. I just reached out to another (for me) new lady the other day based upon a buddy's recommendation. She said I'm good to go - didn't even look at my profile.

I find P411 to be the most valuable tool available in this hobby. I have been a member here since 2002, and was active on a few escort forums  (Tampa and London-based , mostly) before then. It was there where I first communicated with Gina, the original founder/owner of P411, long before P411 was created. At one point I retired for a few years, and when I returned I had no current referrals. In about 2014 I reached out to Gina at P411, and we quickly remembered one another form the earlier Tampa-based forum, though she was from Denver. Even though she remembered me, she still required my real info and called my work to confirm. While uncomfortable, I found it to be a smart way to start, as she assured me that nothing was kept. (Though I had no way to know if this was true, but I trusted her.) I hope the current P411 owners are similarly stringent.

Maybe it's just my geography, but I experience more and more ladies telling me they don't take P411 as screening. They have all kinds of reasons for not accepting it and to be fair some seem legit. Oddly enough those same providers use P411 to advertise but won't trust the members there who have countless okays. Anyway, I digress. At the end of the day Im glad I'm a member as some still take it, but more and more I find providers who want a DL, LinkedIn profile with a minimum number of connections, and a phone number traceable back to the name on my DL.  

No thanks, I'll pass. As badly as I'd like to see some of them, it's not worth risking my personal info like that in the event of a leak, a bust, or blackmail.  

It is a valuable service and I would recommend it.  Unfortunately, I sense it is widely misunderstood by the younger Twitter-universe ladies.  Seems far too many go out of there way to state the P411 is not an acceptable screening mechanism for them.  I sense they equate P411 members to the "review" community.  It has a us-versus-them feeling to it.

As a provider, I love p411! It  makes it so much easier to screen men and the men on there tend to be much classier and low hassle compared to other sites I've used.

I recall that Gina was thinking of shutting down completely at her retirement, but then said something to the effect that she found someone she felt could carry on the tradition.  So a personal voucher from Gina.
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As I read the rules, for new admirers, you can either get two references from p411 providers, or submit personal ID.
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Looks like to become a listed provider you need to have at least one reference from a p411 client with at least 5 okays, as well as provide a lot of personal ID..
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I personally had two references when I joined and never submitted personal ID.  That was maybe four or so years ago.
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I prefer using p411 providers because it usually sufficient to get a booking without additional screening.  One thing I have noticed is that several p411 providers are pretty lax about ever responding, even though it is an explicit requirement that they do so in a timely manner and can be kicked off for not responding.  (They don't have to say yes, they just have to give a decision in a timely manner.)
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That's really my only complaint about p411 providers.  The providers that I thought were a bit sketchy were banned soon enough.

I think the referral served the purpose of saying you're not a cop or LEO. Also, that you seem to be a client. You didn't beat her, you paid in full, and wasn't a problem. All the other info like job, identifying info, is just leverage to help assure you're not a bad client. If you are they have some sort of method of retaliation. At the end of the day, screening for the women is to protect them in some form or fashion. So, getting referred to one of her friends is the easiest form of screening there is available.

Pretty much this. I've only had two providers never respond. The ones who are late in responding are ones that don't want to see me. I've had this happen a couple of times. Its like clockwork. No response until the day after, asking to schedule. I point out the day has passed or I get a "next time". Some times I mess with them just to see. I'll say, "Oh, my trip was extended how about tomorrow?". Then radio silence, rinse and repeat.  I don't know what raises flags in my profile, but every know and then it happens.

I am a life member since 2009 and when I signed up the deal was that you used part of your DL as verification and it was agreed that the companion could look at it on arrival to verify.  The only issue I have ever had was early this year when I requested an appointment and got a reply from the woman's service saying I had to fill out their form.  I said thanks, but no thanks, as I joined P411 as a single point VERIFICATION service.  I don't know what is currently required, but for me it has worked great and I would recommend it.  

Happy Holidays to All!

I joined in 2017 and only needed a reference/vouch from one provider. She emailed me a link to use and that was it, I was approved in 20 minutes.

It can be a single point verification site, but even P411 says they allow and even encourage providers to do additional screening.  

works really well for me on the same or short notice most of the time. References were taking too long (not their faults) and I felt like I owed them a favor every time (no trouble from the girls at all). Singed up after I got two referrals and haven't stopped since 2013.

As a side note, only once in my years, a provider asked to see my ID to verify P411 is actually my account as it has my first name. The agency's rule was well spelled out on their site so it was not a big deal. Though, I did insist she can verify it, but not outside my presence, as she was about to leave to another room with my ID.

All good imo. I'm golden being verified over there. Love the ok's I get and that a girl that I request a date with can look at my pics and profile which gives her a big edge as to who she's gonna play with. No brainer!

I don’t know that anything changed since Gina sold, but I joined way back in 2011, when Gina was definitely in charge. I’m not sure they’ve ever done “vigorous screening.” All I needed was 2 provider references, and zero personal info.

anytime a provider receives a pre-screening or appointment request, P411 has a disclaimer stating, "We encourage everyone to do as much *additional screening as they feel is necessary*, to keep themselves safe."  

 
I typically do not try to read into things but reading between the lines, it's clear to me that they realize their verification system isn't full-proof. When I joined P411, I was informed by P411 that *ALL* client accounts had to provide their legal information in addition to either provider references OR employment information. Based on the information some of you provided, it's clear that is not the case and only reinforces why some may require more information.  And whether people want to believe it or not, P411 has been used in stings. In addition, since Gina left, for P411 to take a concern seriously the client has to basically commit gross bodily harm against the provider to be banned from the platform.  

 
I don't think it's just "new" providers who have qualms with P411. I think every provider, whether a veteran in the industry or new,  view P411 in whatever way works for them. I know "veteran" providers who view P411 as an advertising platform, some new providers see it as a verification platform, and there are some who have deleted their P411 accounts because they don't like P411's practices. No one can really agree. While I accept P411, it is only within certain parameters and if you are not blacklisted for certain things.  

 
Something that would make P411 more beneficial is implementing a blacklist/reporting structure for providers that is vetted by P411 staff. Basically, a provider would receive a client inquiry that includes their P411 information. Then the provider would pull up the client account and there would be a tab to see any "infractions" or "reports" on that client.

It will continue to be part of my verification process. For me it's not the be all, end all screening methods for me and never has been.  

I've heard about more bad experiences from ladies than back when Gina owned it. I think, but don't know for sure, that the new owner(s) are not women. Gina was fair when problems arose, but from what I've heard now, it tends to favor the guys more now. I notice fewer make members online when I check. .  

Steph XO

-- Modified on 12/26/2021 9:27:07 AM

P-411 always works great for me, it's the gold standard imo. In my initial request for a date I give her my 411 info so she can check out my profile, bio and pics. now she has some reasonable idea of what she's in for. This has always worked well for me.

Yeah but watch out for those sketchy women, lol

Always Great Experiences with Ladies I met through P411.  Better quality Women equate to better quality Experiences.

She probably sold it for a good price.   There were a number of cop incursions including a well documented case of Phoenix PD taking over the ID of a well known provider and instead of being concerned she banned me since I allowed providers to tell their bad experiences on my old private list - now long gone as with the old local Phoenix boards when AZ made it a felony to encourage prostitution.   I have no idea about the new owner and I am no longer have the Private List once so popular in Phoenix and our Sky-High Condo parties.

I joined P411 some years back when Date-Check melted down. Almost all the providers I see are on P411 and screening has worked fine with just a couple exceptions. For the last year I've mainly been seeing the same 4-5 girls and I just need to remember to ask them to update their ok's every so often so that I have current ok's.

You should try NC /Virginia….pretty cool down here!

isn't on p411, the probability of me contacting them is slim to none. This is MY minimum screening requirement. While this isn't a foolproof method, as I've encountered some issues with a select few p411 providers, the vast majority of my dates were (are) with beautiful, reputable ones.

As an European provider I really like the idea, however it seems that no one is really using it much here. Which is shame, but since in Europe prostitution is not illegal men feel we are too entitled if we want to screen, they ignore the part that it is for our but also their safety. And I could log into my old account

They used to enforce a provider’s cancellation policy if it was clearly written on the website and in the same wording on the personal website. I found out the hard way when someone canceled while I was en route to an early morning out call from the Chicago area to Milwaukee That they don’t do that anymore.  This is why I ask for deposits from everyone on tore down not just everybody but P411 members.

I contacted P411 and I asked them about that. I said I was concerned because P411 used to back us up. If a client was problematic, or if a provider was problematic, they were not allowed to be on the site. That’s what made it so great.

They said that they do still Make notes when there’s a problem and if there are enough problems and somebody will be removed from the site.  

I just recently found out that they no longer enforced the cancellation policy. When I mentioned it to the client he blocked me. That’s how I learned about it and I was an hour and a half into my drive to that Outcall. Not very nice. So I’m mentioning this in case other people are still not aware of that.

It's worth it's weight in gold. I now use it almost exclusively to find my next date.

For anyone participating in the "hobby"--(providers, clients, etc)--P411 is still indispensable. It's the equivalent of Google in the "pay for play" dating world!!

I almost us P411 exclusively...just seem to save a lot of trouble that way.  Anytime a provider asks for more, I just move on the next girl...I have been a member for a long time now and only problem I have had was providers flaking on appointments.  That said, the girls on P411 are more expensive than other sites.

Steph,  
Would you also use it because you can go places and ask providers certain questions regarding screening information of potential clients?

My big concern about having my real info on P411 was the possibility of it getting hacked.  Think of how much money criminals could make by extortion to the members.  Or if the cops got the info, they have the list of johns to harass.  (and providers) .  Big companies with lots to tech security get hacked all the time.  Why not someone little like P411.  

Fortunately in my area , San Mateo, once verified by a local org, we are ready to go.    Local providers can send a reference to another in the area.    I do not travel, so this works for me.

Ed

Not sure about you, but I gave NO personal info when I joined P411.

A very nice lady I saw vouched for me and I got an email from her with a link to sign up. I basically just set up my member profile and submitted it. I was approved within 20 minutes.

I don't know if that process is different now that Gina is not there anymore.

and the reason why so many people no longer accept P411. We have been told that even if a provider vouches for a client, some real world information is required to finalize the creation of the client account. So if you were able to get on without truly being verified, how many other people were as well?

ok, then why not set a threshold prior to seeing a p411 member, e.g. 5 "ok's" within the last 6 months.  Or better yet, why not just contact the providers that gave the oks.  That is how the HX system works and it seems to be an acceptable verification procedure.  

Back a few years ago, I got on P411 with the vouches from two providers.  I didn't have to give p411 any info.  But the providers had to themselves be verified on p411 and attest that we had a sex visit and not just coffee.

It's simple.  Why don't you do this?  When a potential client contacts you - send them a photo of your DL.  They can then respond with a copy of theirs.  That way, all of the concerns you have are placated from the perspective of your client.

is that they don't trust vouches from other providers! It really has nothing to do with the guys at all... if we all had real info with a central verification site, they would still not trust it.  

 
Providers can scream "safety" all they want - the real fact is that even when they collect real-world info from every client, they are no safer. I'd challenge any Provider to provide valid, non-anecdotal data to show that the state of screening today (with so much real-world info in screening) has made things safer than in "the bad old days" they love to lament.  Bad things still happen, and at about the same frequency.

 
The only thing offering every provider your personal info does is expose you to more Twitter blackmail and mockery (or worse) when a Provider gets a wild hair up her ass. It really has nothing to do with "provider safety" at all.  

 
JMO, but I'm sticking with it.

I know of 3 providers who go back to the "bad old days", and each one laments how they got robbed and/or attacked back when there was no way to screen.

Since they started screening using various means the internet offers, they have not had that problem.

Just sayin"...

You headline should read "On what is your research based?"
Such things are important to Conan.

apply to me. nowhere in my initial comment did I state that I do not accept P411.  

 
I simply stated that the reason so many providers no longer accept P411 is due to the fact that they were told this service does some semblance of real world verification for us but there are clients on here outwardly admitting that that aspect of the service is not being rendered. And as so many of you state, providers have the right to screen how they want and be selective about who they see... just like y'all.

For the record, I cannot remember the last time a provider did not accept my P411 membership (and I believe it was only one). I am meeting one Monday evening who is not even a member of P411 and just had me send her a link to view my profile.

 
I HAVE had a few ladies ask if it was alright if they contacted one or two of my recent "okays", but I can only remember one in 4 years that didn't care about P411.

END OF MESSAGE

and as you say, safety did improve with the advent of screening tools like p411 and other verification sites, with the availability of blacklists and even reviews and Whitelists to evaluate a client. These were long considered trustworthy means to screen clients for safety. And they worked - providers were safer.

Today, we have moved to a place where providers do not trust these screening methods anymore. They don't trust the vouch system and verification sites. I do not believe (as I said, based upon my own anecdotal observation and opinion) that "the bad old days" suddenly returned despite use of these resources. I believe there is only distrust without substantive change in degree of safety on the whole.

Further, IMO, demands for pictures of ID and selfies, work information, etc... have not made providers any safer than the system based upon verification sites, vouches, blacklists and so on did. I mean in terms of # of cases of actual physical harm and abuse. There has been no sea change in safety since providers began to demand these things. It has made them no materially safer.

What has happened, is that clients have become at MUCH greater risk of being mocked and outed for spite. This can cause serious harm to clients. Providers (in particular the "woke" Twitter crowd) are simply looking to rearrange the power dynamic - they want the guys to be afraid of them. Afraid to write a review, afraid to NOT tip, afraid to offend in any way whatsoever lest they be harmed.  

Feel free to disagree with me; that's what opinions are for.

If you’re going to use P411 to screen, then per P411’s terms and conditions, clients should be ready to show their ID when they cross over threshold if the provider requests it.

When I was  still on P411 was more then happy to show my ID with the portion of the number showing that was on my profile. As far as sending it electronically with much of info showing - NOT.
Actually was only asked for it once .

That's the way that the old DateCheck used to work, too. I was registered on DC with a specific gov issued ID card and number, a portion of which was my DC code number. I would only have to show that id with the number portion showing and everything else covered up (although I usually also left my photo uncovered to prove that the person holding the card -- me -- was the person to whom the card was issued).  
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(Unfortunately, DC was shut down when LE busted the owner on several charges.)

I'm very interested in returning to the hobby after about an 8 year hiatus.  But things in Ohio have changed.  The client now takes all the punishment when caught by LE, including being classed as a sex offender for life.  That really bugs me, but I a glad the providers are no longer being punished.  I am thinking of joining P411, but every time I look at the form, I cringe.  I read every word of this post and am still undecided.

Oh well, maybe I just don't have the guts for this hobby anymore.  Even posting on this board bothers me.  But I think posting here is my 1st amendment right, and I am not really admitting to any wrongdoing.  I'm wondering if joining P411  can also be considered my right.

Thoughts?

If the client has been screened by P411 OKs and/or referrals and/or TER referrals and/or other sufficient but anonymous means, don't most guys show up with ID in their pocket?  Yes, some guys stash their wallet and everything but the fee + tip in their car but I think that most guys show up with their everyday pocket stuff.  I have never had any hostess go rifling through my pockets / wallet while I was in the shower (well, none that I could ever detect).  
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If such a client has an emergency in your presence, call 911, THEN pull out his wallet and check his name and other info. You will still be a hero!  
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And if someone has a medical emergency in your presence -- in your room, in the elevator, in a restaurant, on the street ... -- and you take positive action to get help (911) without knowing their name, you will still be a hero!!!

Your 1st Amendment rights are completely irrelevant here. The 1st protects your right to speak without government hindrance. This is a private website and the owner can restrict your speech or even kick you off for any reason.  

If what you are really getting at is self-incrimination, again irrelevant. That Amendment has nothing to do with whether your statement can be used against you in a criminal proceeding. Even under the 5th Amendment, which would ostensibly apply, there would only be an issue if your statement was compelled by the government. Obviously not the case.

There is no protection for any statement any of us makes here, aside from the fact that LE (usually) has lots better to do than dedicate limited resources to the tedium of electronically tracking down a bunch of guys sexing willing adult women.

-- Modified on 2/9/2022 1:48:25 PM

What the fuck ? Really classified as a sex offender?  Are you sure ?

You're right helixir.  Thanks for the explanation.  Re-reading my post, I seem a bit silly mentioning constitutional rights regarding what we post on websites.  And these are private sites.  You're also correct about LE lacking resources to track this stuff.  LE in Ohio seems to be focusing on bigger problems such as human trafficking or illegal hard drug distribution rather than willing adult activities or smoking some weed.  

I've gotten paranoid for some reason and need to chill.  All my life I have refrained from providers under 25, street walkers, or those with pimps due to the bigger problems mentioned.  Being careless is how a monger gets tagged as a sexual predator, not banging some willing adult woman.  Providers paying for P411 and other web services are probably not being trafficked.  This phenom entices me to join P411.  

Last time I checked, providers do not pay for P411.

They pay for certain additional services that P411 provides, but any lady can get an account and use it for free.

Well, I only do this now and then and prefer not to deal with anybody that demands a deposit. What did folks do before these virtual wallets such as CashApp were around? Don’t trust these as I have heard many sad stories surrounding them. I met a few ladies in the 2003-2008 time frame and no one at that time required deposits. Started up again in 2013 but mainly saw two ladies both of whom are pretty much retired from the biz. So in effect I may be like a newbie again.

For my part I would never cancel an engagement unless there was some sort of emergency. Sometimes I would give up to a couple of months lead time as some ladies travel.

I need to get vouchers for me to join is it possible for someone to help me with this process

END OF MESSAGE

Do you ever come to Chicago?   If so, I'd very much enjoy seeing you and would be happy to vouch for you to join P411.  I've been a member for many years.

way to ask for business, since customers have to see you in order to vouch for you.  

If they're not on the up and up a member can vouch for anyone. It wouldn't surprise me if guys out there do that to curry some favor with women.

 
It's known that some guys share their accounts with friends, so why wouldn't they break other rules too?

Definitely in the near future. I am starting a tour soon since I take my 9-5 job vacation days in April like most do I can add Chicago as a stop

Hi Tamara,  

I'd have to see you to vouch for you according to the P411 rules.  If we can arrange that, I'll be happy to do so. I'll watch for your schedule!

Hi love how are you I would love to Meet you thanks for the reply on vouching on p41