Just because you've had a little bad luck.
I'm sure it took you a while to figure out how to properly screen out the time-wasters and the baddies in your line of work. And I'm sure you've had your share of baddies on your way to finding Mr. Wonderful. Not much different in the civie world. You just have to get the hang of "screening" in the real world and apply a few of the same principles. But civie dating can be rewarding. I find it very liberating to know the person I'm fucking actually likes the fucking for the sake of the fucking. In fact, I would say that I have been much more generous with the money (i.e. things like loans or helping out with rent) to the ladies who don't require it. Something about knowing she enjoys my dick ... makes me feel even more generous, in fact. So if I have to put up with a few psychos, clingers or unfulfilling hookups once in a while ... it's a fair price to pay for the times that it does work out.For the single folks;
Do you just enjoy "the hobby" all by itself
or
Are you also out looking for a "civie" relationship outside "the hobby"
Your thoughts if any
I love the convenience of P4P, I still like "living off the land" and proving to myself "I've still got it" by picking up an occasional civvie chick and I also like the hybrid version of a SB.
I don't know if I would go so far as to say I am looking for a civvie "relationship" per se. but I like to get pussy every once in a while knowing that I am not so loathsome that I "have to" always pay for it.
-- Modified on 3/19/2016 6:56:01 AM
Exactly the way I see it too.
I tried the online dating thing for a month last month
Ugghhh...not for me
its always nice to know that when I pile those Benjamins together I know what I'm getting.
but then life happened
Unfortunately, my sexual appetite can only be satiated by seasoned hobbiest who give me a run for my money. Civie guys in my opinion aren't used to professional grade blow jobs nor do they respect the time I put aside for them. I Know it's a no no, but I don't venture far away from the industry. fake awkward civie relationship? Or...spend some recreational with that dope client you've secretly been crushing on hard? Like I said.. Some people might be against that..and it's probably not the best "business" move...but occasionally, I crave intimacy and it's easier for me to find that in a hobbiest who appreciates what I'm giving him. (And I don't mean my pussy)
to an uninformed civie? I'm just a normal girl with normal girl relationship issues.. Omg should I call him? What should I wear to dinner? Etc
To the informed civie, I'm some sexual deviant who is a blast to be around but will never ever be the girl he introduces to mom.
Hobbiest/former hobbiest/That special client? they just get it. The gravity of the situation. It's not easy, but in the midst of complicated boundaries you both feel a sense of appreciation.
the dynamics of a P4P encounter create a kind of subculture! You know, you are right. I get it, but have never quite looked at it that way.
Yes, there is a hobbyist/provider culture of sorts. One where the provider is pretty much aware of the common factors/motivation that influence a hobbyist's participation in the hobby. While the hobbyist understands, to a great extent, a provider's perspective.
Could this mutual understanding (when it is present) even lead to mutual empathy and have something to do with those instances where true chemistry develops?
A LOT of hookers who I have ended up dating have told me they like being with a guy who "gets it"
I guess I just said the same thing as you, but I used a lot less words. You get the style points, I get points for brevity, Deal?
I will add however that the vast majority of "Hobbyists" will NEVER "get it" and they most likely would make a worse fuck buddy for a hooker than the average civvie off the street.
stop. You are starting to scare me! You and I have more in common than either of us may know.
Scary huh!
I just tried to hang myself, but the damn rope broke. lol
the garage for a rope that will not break! Hang in there, practice makes perfect!
i learn the hard way. I've dated clients and I've tried dating civilians..Ive done everything to make it work, from fabricating complete occupations to utter honesty. I've given up on trying to find someone that's not a part of the industry. That dynamic has no excitement for me. The civilian will never know what I'm truly capable of and having someone whose able to see through my bullshit means a lot to me.
He'll never truly appreciate the conquest in having me because he has no idea what I'm giving up or how much will power it takes to stay. During the times that I've found myself romantically involved with hobbyists, I've noticed their efforts in keeping me enthralled and happy. They realize that opportunity is constantly presenting itself and that at any moment something shiny will distract me and take me away. That extra effort.. The doors you open..the small thoughtful gifts..the amazing dirty sex..all that and more make you a better match for me. And in the same light..what woman in her right mind could look at any of you.. To know the lengths you go through to maintain this strange obsession...alternate email address..burner phones..how and when you withdraw money..how you book plane tickets..the duffle bag filled with the soap that you should smell like, change of underwear..toothbrush. The amount of deceit you're capable of as well as those carnal desires hiding in you that they have no idea about..strap ons, whips, spit, anal play, etc. How is it that, and I'm not just talking about myself here.. How is it.. that despite knowing all of that about some of you...I could justify it all? To gain a monogamist relationship from a hobbyist is much more satisfying for a provider then it would be for a civie. Does she know how easy it is for you to pick who ever you want off some cyber menu? Does she know how many emails and newsletters you recieve each week about women hoping to see you soon? Occasionally a guy will let a name slip of another provider that he may have seen before meeting me..and it excites me and boils my blood with jealousy to pour over the pictures of these women picking out all the nasty and vial things you probably did to her..always wondering did you like her better? Or..how can I be everything to him so that he'll never want anyone else.. But you will.. And I know it..because you're a sick fuck and for some reason I love it.
-- Modified on 3/19/2016 10:24:24 AM
Put me on your mailing list for Boston. 
Just sayin'
ALL men pay...one way or another. I'm getting to this strange place with one of my clients now actually. I've seen him once a week for over a year. He's attractive, sweet, witty and everytime im with him I wonder why this physically fit body builder keeps coming back to see my short chubby ass. Lol we've definitely developed a bit of a report and text almost everyday. When he leaves my envelope on my counter...it makes me feel icky. Like I want to give it back to him. But then I think about it.. And realize...hey! I'm worth it! Lmao if he's in a position to make my life easier by helping me financially while I figure out what the hell i'm doing with my life.. What's wrong with accepting that? My experiences with dating civies have been bleek. (Pre escorting) Loaning money that I never see again..getting cheated on..lied to.. I would be thrilled if someone occasionally treated me to a slice of pizza! I started on BP at $200 and only walked away with half. I treated those men like kings because i never in my life thought I was even worth a $20 cab ride.
This man sees me once a week for over a year. You tell me.. Who do I have more respect for? This man? Or the dumb fuck hitting on me at the bar who can't understand that it's still polite to by a girl a drink..? To a civie that might find me attractive..I catch his eye in a room full of normal everyday life. When I catch a HOBBIESTS eye? through an ad or picture posted among hundreds of others; Passing women way more beautiful than me..same price point..same availabllity..same menue...but you ended up on my door step? You can think I'm full of shit if you want.. But I find that special and it makes me want to thank you in any way I can 😉
I've been saying it my whole life...
i wish every provider felt that way!
tbh, i believe that a few girls i see do feel that way, and they are the special ones to me
Just because you've had a little bad luck.
I'm sure it took you a while to figure out how to properly screen out the time-wasters and the baddies in your line of work. And I'm sure you've had your share of baddies on your way to finding Mr. Wonderful. Not much different in the civie world. You just have to get the hang of "screening" in the real world and apply a few of the same principles.
But civie dating can be rewarding. I find it very liberating to know the person I'm fucking actually likes the fucking for the sake of the fucking. In fact, I would say that I have been much more generous with the money (i.e. things like loans or helping out with rent) to the ladies who don't require it. Something about knowing she enjoys my dick ... makes me feel even more generous, in fact.
So if I have to put up with a few psychos, clingers or unfulfilling hookups once in a while ... it's a fair price to pay for the times that it does work out.
You seem personally offended that Ive chosen to rule out civies...as if I detest them. I don't remember bashing civilian men, I'm sure there are a lot of nice guys out there..but im looking for a seamless connection and some providers who date clients can empathize with some of my feelings of finding comfort in someone who has a good grasp on our day to day. Since when is it wrong to want to be around people you have things in common with? And just for the record..civies - hobbyists... Way more than have of my clienetle are in committed relationships..when you see a grown ass man hanging half way out of a hotel window because he's on the phone with his wife and he's suppose to be out running errands? Forgive me but you start to get a little cynical. Now.. If you can forgive my slight cynicism I'll forgive yours. Because judging by your reply and PM you obviously think I'm full of shit and just another money hungry whore.
If you're going to attack someone's character do some reasearch first..I've met quite enough people here so far that can attest that im not jaded..I'm not mean..i help anyone who asks..I don't believe in dog eat dog competition..I still get butterflies in my stomach right before I open the door and I ALWAYS enjoy the fuckings my clients give me. I was hoping to just chill and open up a little because I don't have the chance to talk to other people about stuff like this.. But you had to be an asswipe. Enjoy your weekend!
Some-guy, I appreciate your last PM. Thank you. Sorry for calling you an asswipe.
Civvie guys are absolutely clueless, and that's an understatement at that. At my age playing here makes the most sense and cents lol
Gxo
And why can't you find a man IRL?
Every one of of them can't be clueless. Unless you are perfect?
I can find a man. I choose not to. Big difference. No thanks. And yes, every single damn one of them (that I've attempted to encounter) is absolutely clueless. Not remotely close to perfect nor would I ever want to be.
G xo
The only constant in all the "clueless" guys and you is....YOU.
To blame everyone else and not look into the mirror seems narcissistic and delusional.
Which one are you? Or does both adjectives strike home?
Never said I couldn't be the problem "too", only stated the guys I have encountered tend to be of the clueless nature. They may very well turn around and say the same thing about me lol. Then again, I haven't been a part of that world in years, so really doesn't make a difference. You are more than welcome to introduce me to a non clueless man if you can find one. I'm game and always positive, despite your constant negativity. Still not very nice I see lol.
G xo
-- Modified on 3/19/2016 12:45:25 PM
He hasn't yet learned to be nice to his elders.
What manners exactly? lol I'm sorry, I don't think they exist here.
G xo
Now, give those people a chance to know me and they will eventually hate me. LOL
Now for you, maybe the ability for you to pick the right mate is broken?
Point being, if every male you encounter is clueless, maybe you are clueless in finding and determining who the right men are? There is a certain logic in that, you will agree.
We aren't that different Gia.
You like guys 30-35 years younger than you and I like girls 10-15 years younger than me.
Enjoy your wine and your weekend!
-- Modified on 3/19/2016 1:24:03 PM
As for me, I'm afraid you'll probably never know the real truth so I'm not sure where you're getting your facts from which you profess so confidently but also so incorrectly lol. I'm also afraid, we are very VERY different in many ways and probably will not agree on many things. And that is equally ok. I hope you have a great weekend as well.
G xo
PS. Stopped drinking wine last year for one lol
I thought that was the sixth food group for you? LOL
So what is it, vodka now? Gin? What's your poison?
"JD" of course lol. On the rocks, straight up please.
No foo foo or fluff for me thanks.
G xo
So what is it, vodka now? Gin? What's your poison?
Just try to tell that to a Brit or a Scotsman if you put even a single ice cube in that 40 year old single malt, they will look at you as if you are an uncivilized barbarian.
but I do admire the fact that you don't do foo foo drinks.
I really don't know that much about alcohol anyhow lol. Oh well, I tried lol. Actually, I really don't care what's in a drink as long as it looks pleasing to the eye and tastes smooth. And as long as I'm being served and I'm not the one doing the serving lol.
But I kinda lied. I do love me a yummy blue martini. So, yea, I guess I like foo foo afterall.
G xo
but I do admire the fact that you don't do foo foo drinks.
it stems from the institutionalize patriarchal assumption that families are the driving engine of society.
the concept that the natural order of things is for a man and woman to find each other and stay with each other happily for all their lives has frustrated and bedeviled millions of people through out the millennia. people feel like failures if they haven't found a mate and started families by x years old.
i know dozens of people in my own life who haven't had permanent significant romantic relationships. are they neurotic? who isn't?
i was with one woman for 35 years. she suddenly left me. obviously we weren't emotionally intimate, although i thought we were. i guess i was wrong.
do i feel that i failed? no. it just didn't work the way society taught me it should. so what? i'm seeing providers now. i'm a happy camper.
there is conventional wisdom that a woman has to find a man, and if she can't she is broken. that idea is just another way to oppress women. and men too for that matter.
if you find someone for all your life, great. if you play the field all your life, great. if you stay in this endeavor for your sexual satisfaction, and don't need emotional intimacy from just one person, great.
who cares where people find their satisfaction or emotion nourishment? as long it's consensual on everyone's part, who cares?
i have nothing but the utmost respect for professor dunphy's hooker university, but his theories on civvie relationships are not a strong part of his curriculum.
Sometimes there are some souls not meant to be with one other soul. End of story. Nothing to analyze, that's just the way it is.
I especially like this line... 
well said.
there is conventional wisdom that a woman has to find a man, and if she can't she is broken. that idea is just another way to oppress women. and men too for that matter.
The man (or woman) you are with, should make you feel powerful, not powerless.
If and when a man of this caliber and substance should show up at my own doorstep...game on. But not a nanosecond before.
G xo
Do you see ALL the women out there as "clueless?"
If you do, you agree with Gia. If not, you agree with me.
In my experience when one blames "the world" it is a sign they don't look into the mirror at their own faults which may contribute to not being able to find a mate.
"Dating isn't for me" should be her mantra after her bad dating experiences, not the "all the dudes are idiots" meme she is blathering here.
Call sasha today as summer classes are almost filled. Lots of "clueless" Johns out there but I don't need to tell you, or Gia, this. LO
professor, i bow to your superior knowledge of hookers, johns and this endeavor...
but i will go to another university for the study of the nuance of civilian relationships.
...college to learn about civilian relationships; your "self-study" should easily qualify you for a degree.
I love love love being single, and prefer to keep it that way. It means I get to have a wide variety of lovers and march to the beat of my own drum in terms of my lifestyle and travels. I also crave variety and get bored easily with a regular partner. Or at least with one very regular partner. But I love having balance between appointments with clients and civvie hookups. I have some regular fuck buddies and some regular clients. I have some one-offs too on both sides. For me, the more I fuck and the more variety in my sex life, the more I like fucking. I get a lot of variety in my client base, but I get even more variety when I have civvie hookups as well. And I love that with a civvie hookup, if I decide I'm not in the mood for something or just want to roll over and fall asleep on someone, it's an option. I get to be a little more human instead of playing the professional. So for me that balance is super important. I don't want to lose touch with what that kind of spontaneous, unpredictable, "unprofessional" sex feels like.
But of course my BJs and prostate work are still on POINT either way and these civvie guys have just as crazy out of control orgasms as the guys I see on P4P. I have no dearth of offers to repeat hookups in my civvie life. They all feel just as lucky to have me around as my clients. And I generally disclose that I'm a professional. So even when business is slow (hello January), I never forget for even one second that I'm hot stuff and I know what I'm doing. When I am active on civvie hookup sites my inbox literally floods continuously. And it's fun to be the one doing the "choosing". So IDK, lots of reasons to pursue civvie hookups in my opinion.
It all boils down to balance. For me, 5 years into the industry, it's been really critical to avoiding burnout. Sometimes I get lucky and a client really rocks my world. But even still it's nice to be reminded what it feels like to be totally OTC with someone who didn't find me through an advertisement, someone who I picked out vs the other way around. ;
Civvie friends, yes. Civvie friends with benefits, yes. P4P absolutely, yes. Blur the lines, sometimes.
Live in monogamous relationship, NEVER AGAIN!
I do like that I'm much happier being able to have platonic relationships with women now that my sexual needs are met by professionals.
I'm the original hard luck case when it comes to civie relationships. I don't give up, though. And hobbying makes it easier, because if I don't get in some chick's bed, I know I'll get some the next time I see my ATF. It's given me a new confidence, so maybe my luck will change. I do notice that I get a lot more random eye contact than I used to.
In the past 8 months I've been "hobbying" I've met more amazing women and had more great sex than in my previous 50 years combined...
since my wife left me, i've had the best sex of my life.
more great women than in the previous 45 years of trying to be with women.
i'm going broke but what the hell i'm having fun doing it.
I do not enjoy the thrill of the hunt, and I have no game anyway. I don't care to work for it anymore, too damn tired of playing the game for the kind of woman that I could attract.
I'd much rather get the sure thing from women whom I'd be invisible to IRL. Incredible sex with incredibly beautiful, sexy women and sex the way I like it.
I love my life.
Yes it takes much longer. Yes it's more frustrating however I have yet to find more joy than when I get someone in bed on my own merits instead of when money changes hands.
My ratio has always been more civilians than providers.
To each there own.
Have a good Saturday.
Zak
I enjoy sex in all forms.
Do you just enjoy "the hobby" all by itself
or
Are you also out looking for a "civie" relationship outside "the hobby"
Your thoughts if any?
Badge of honor then?...to get a non-working girl into bed? It's no wonder there are more and more joining day after day leaving civvie land behind. You guys make it too easy for us sometimes to decide lol.
G xo
Beastiality?
Scat play?
Homosexuality?
I could go on but you get the picture.
Same difference. Provider and Civie girls both need money. You're paying for the sex in both scenarios.
...it's not easy to do. Is it exhausting? (being sincere)
I can say that because I tend to "bring my work home with me", I sometimes get lost in thinking that this is all life is. Eat, drink, fuck...eat, drink, fuck... I mean I don't want to complain too much because those are all amazing luxuries to have.. But man I tell ya.. A couple of weeks away by a lake, growing out my pubes sounds pretty nice...
-- Modified on 3/20/2016 1:21:23 AM