I understand from a client perspective why it isn't as engaging to date civies but have seen many women lamenting the bore that is dating a civie.
Asked a provider friend what she thought, she felt it was mainly due to Pro's not being up front near the start about what they do, the risks involved, etc. Feels like there is more to it than that. Anything else about dating civvies that makes things difficult or is it simply the honesty factor? Things like sex, gifts, treatment, chemistry, etc? Discuss. AMFor most hookers, coming right out and telling a prospective date she's a hooker is kind of a non starter in most cases, just like a man telling a girl on the first date (or even the fiftieth date) that he fucks hookers.
Aside from that, most of the guys here are married which kind of takes dating civvies off the table, or at least it should. The rest of us are a mixed bag, some are divorce and have made a vow to never "date" again. others are simply too socially inept or downright repulsive to date civvies and others simply don't want to bother with the emotional side of dating. And then of course there are guys (and women) who move back and forth between the civvie and P4P world fluidly without all the angst that some of you seem to have where it comes to dating.I have a double life, and it's extremely hard to balance. Cus if I'm trying to hang out with My personal life people, then randomly get an appointment at the same time , I wanna take that appointment lol... So it's hard to manage most times. That's why a lot of us do try to book appointments way in advance because I personally need time to plan what I'm gonna lie about for that block of time to people In my civvie life.
Ps. Guys have it a lot easier than us lol.
Also I would never tell my S/O what I do, I know too many failure relationships come out of that with other girls I've known. They reveal themselves and end up alone cus the guy is disrespectful and goes out to do his own thing and she finds out but can't do anything about it cus hey she's a hooker. Nope
-- Modified on 4/11/2016 9:52:42 AM
Angst in dating? Whats the big deal? I'm currently single but don't find dating nervewracking. Just a different mating ritual one to the other. I guess the p4p angle takes the fear of rejection away (or more accurately shifts it around) but the possibility of rejection in the civvie dating world never really bothered me.
Just find the psychology of the difference interesting.Dating a civilian not in the hobby is a thousand times harder than winning a million bucks out of a slot machine. It's even tougher to get the 2nd or 3rd date in the real world. The women who is allowing you to take her out wants you to be open and honest from the start. They want to see you have money and they are very picky in most aspects of what they are looking for. They don't settle and they are looking for that one in a million guy. They want an instant connection which is based on truth and respect. They would rather be single than date the wrong guy. I'm looking for the same thing in the real world. Until I find it I am here playing with you. Your right the pro is more fun.
You don't sleep with these girls on the first or second date. Usually it's a slow process. God forbid they find out you slept with a hooker. You will never get a date again within 100 miles of her zip code. The life of dating. Fun times with that being said I am doing speed dating Friday Night. It's Cougar night in NYC. Always an entertaining evening.Asked a provider friend what she thought, she felt it was mainly due to Pro's not being up front near the start about what they do, the risks involved, etc. Feels like there is more to it than that. Anything else about dating civvies that makes things difficult or is it simply the honesty factor? Things like sex, gifts, treatment, chemistry, etc?
Discuss.
AM
"others are simply too socially inept or downright repulsive to date civvies"
Your attitude about civvies seems to put you firmly into that subset. I am truly sorry a guy as young as you has absolutely no game, Civvie dating might have it's challenges, but not every civvie is going to make you wait for months before letting you in her pants, and believe or not "some" civvies even find it titillating that a guy has fucked countless hookers and still finds her attractive. Not all women are alike, the key is recognizing what woman is turned on by this and which woman is turned off. I will concede a LOT more women are turned off by it. but not all of them.that dating civvies is a bore.
It's just that our profession tends to be a deal-breaker. We can lie, which dooms the relationship from the beginning. We can be honest, which will (generally) make a guy run the other way. I haven't had much luck with either approach. I haven't had much luck dating clients, either. They have pretty much used me for free sex. I was expected to 'perform' on demand in a way that felt nothing like natural intimacy. In sum, dating is just difficult for women who fuck random men for a living.Your right.
But I like being just as picky as they are. I want the special one who brings the best out of me. I sleep with a girl in the real world when we are both ready. Not when society says it's the right time. I find most times that's not on the first date. As far as my game you might think it's slow but It's the game that I'm playing. ZIf I was single I would not tell a girl I was a monger. I don't think you owe it to a new girl you met to tell every aspect of your life.
When I was single I never waited past the second date to have sex. If a girl held out I dumped her. If you are single, average looking and have a decent career there is no shortage of attractive babes that will date you. Only men who have no game with women feel otherwise.
Trust me I don't bring it up. My life experiences usually scare them away.
Im looking for someone specific.
When I was single I never waited past the second date to have sex. If a girl held out I dumped her. If you are single, average looking and have a decent career there is no shortage of attractive babes that will date you. Only men who have no game with women feel otherwise.
You made a blanket statement "you don't sleep with these girls on a first or second date"
No, YOU don't sleep with these girls on a first or second date, I often get laid on a first date. Not always, but often enough to debunk your claims to the contrary. I hate to say this, but I am probably the guy she is banging while you are "getting to know her" and even after you finally get into her pants after months of dating, she most likely will still be hitting some guy like me up for a booty call even AFTER finally sleeping with you. and please let me clarify, I don't think your game is "slow" I think it's nonexistent. Come on Tubby fess up, how often do you get put into the "friend zone"??? I bet it's a lot. Anyone want to bet?
1. Never kiss on the first date.
2. No sex until at least the fourth date.
I find that it's the clients who have unrealistic expectations... at least, emotionally. Some of them are incredibly vulnerable to the love rush - or, even seek it outright. They lose sight of the fact that it's not real with me... that the emotions they feel are a product of their OWN needs - that if they feel infatuated with me, it's actually just some desire they are projecting, or something that has arisen from their imagination, rather than a genuine reaction to me (the actual me, not the escort)
I find that the guys IRL aren't so delusional. They realize that there's a separate person in the equation and that her true feelings and desires are largely independent of theirs, and unknown... that their own feelings might change as we each get to know one another. They don't want to commit until they know it's right. The clients who want to date me seem to think that I'm like some cute puppy you can adopt and take home. They don't always seem to appreciate that I have a complete personal life and my own desires... For instance, a couple wanted me to live with them as part of a polyamory relationship. I was to give up my life, my family, and my classes in NYC, move to their city (in the South), and sleep w/them three people to a king bed... doesn't it sound just as if I were to be a little pet?? I was flabbergasted. Another guy seems to want me to travel with him for very little $$ in exchange for a trip to an exotic location. As if I don't have anything else to do, that I'd prefer to lie around a hotel room or beach and arrange my whole day around his needs. I guess I'd be kept doped up with lobster and margaritas... sounds like a great way to spend a life, NOT! I can't speak as to the under-25 thing. I honestly hope I'd never be drawn to someone whose main attraction to me was my age or appearance. Although I realize that does garner a lot of attention from men, I don't actually like that type of attention (unless I've already decided I am into the guy for other reasons). (Sorry GaGambler) I've become interested in a really great guy within the past year or so... if he ever were a client of mine, I feel sure that he'd be the one for whom I'd have to break all the rules. But I think that the interest between us was/is stronger because we became interested in each other for personal reasons before there was any thought of a romantic relationship. I feel that, if he should choose to proceed, that he's attracted to my actual self, and not some way I look or act, or some reaction he's having toward me because of loneliness or some other factor...You nailed it again.
Beauty and brains. Lethal combination. Hope all is well.Zak
Most of the clients I meet are married, so they aren't coming into our meetings with the bitterness and weariness that can come with men who have been single and/or are divorced and are over 35. They also aren't looking for someone they are going to introduce to their friends or integrate in anyway into their outside life which I think sometimes clears out some of the chatter that society can serve about what kind of woman they "should" want.
As I get older, I've found that many - not most, but enough that it isn't just a case of a few weird dudes - men my age or older who are single have a disturbing amount of entitlement and a total lack of self awareness. They generally want young (sometimes very young, as in just became legal) girls who will impress their friends ("It's cheaper than a sports car" said one date, bemoaning the fact that he had to "try" out dating women in their 30s because he had hit a dry spell with the young ones), who can hold a conversation and who also have some of their own money. Imagine having to keep a straight face when listening to a man who just turned 50 whine about how his under 25 exes never paid for anything or made him feel special as he then thanks me for dinner and leans back from the check, indicating I should pay.
And, you know, people shouldn't settle and should go after what they want. If a man feels that he can only be happy with someone young enough to be his daughter, do you, sir. But the civvies I meet seem to feel that they are *owed* that and they are bitter as hell that they are having to slum it with a woman in her 30s because he can't get someone that young who also fills in the other requirements he has for a partner.
It's tiresome listening to civilian men act like they deserve a cookie for daring to date over 30, especially when they often lack any self awareness about what they themselves have to offer. I'm not looking for a millionaire or "abs" or movie level romance, but most civvie men I meet are not exactly hitting it out of the park with smarts or income or looks or kindness and yet they think they are, simply because they showered and have some sort of job and aren't, like, violent. That's it. That's the bar for being "very attractive" and "a catch". And the bar they set for women is young, thin but yet also busty, smart (but not smarter than him, god forbid), doesn't make him feel like a wallet, and a nymphomaniac (but only with him).
It's truly bizarre. I don't know why my clients don't operate the same way, especially when they are spending $$$$ to be around me. Maybe it's because it is so temporary and they aren't looking for a cheaper-than-a-sports car trophy? Maybe it's because they can be with someone super young if they want so the allure of the chase isn't there? But it does make civvie dating a bit harder to swallow. Not because I think I'm super special and fancy because men spend money to be around me, but because I'd just rather be around people who are nice and appreciative and chill and make me feel desired rather than be with men who act like I should be thanking the heavens that they graced me, a near dinosaur who is bigger than a size 0, with their presence.
Except, of course, when the two join together: a single client who I have seen for several overnights was complaining about his deep loneliness. He's 50 and has never been married but desperately wants to be. He's a pretty great guy, so I am always surprised he doesn't have a girlfriend and I finally asked what he thought the issue was. Oh, he said, I only date women under 30 and it's getting harder as I age.....but I'd rather be lonely forever than have to date above that.
I'm 34, I said. Yeah, I know, he said. But I'd never actually date you.
Riddle me that, Batman. Riddle me that.
Is that if I have any desire to be with a hooker beyond the physical, I rarely if ever shower her with gifts, flowers or more importantly "Platitudes about her appearance" and the hotter she is, the less likely I am to make a big deal about her looks.
I have found the last thing most women in your line of work want "after hours" is another lap dog acting like a love sick client. Don't get me wrong, I don't pull that "aloof" crap, I just don't fawn over her like a love sick puppy dog, I have found there is only so much adoration most women can put up with, and I do much better just treating my hooker GF's like a human being than a sex object. (but please don't tell anyone)
provider or not, dating has challenges
my sister who is beautiful,athletic, senior in college and has a job at a reputable financial firm still has heart breaks in her dating life
Asked a provider friend what she thought, she felt it was mainly due to Pro's not being up front near the start about what they do, the risks involved, etc. Feels like there is more to it than that. Anything else about dating civvies that makes things difficult or is it simply the honesty factor? Things like sex, gifts, treatment, chemistry, etc?
Discuss.
AM
Yup, I agree.
I've never had a problem moving between civie and provider worlds.
Sometimes I think I'm not sure the fairy tale is there anything r isn't.
Yesterday I met someone thru a friend.
Very pretty, way too young for me but nice. About thirty minutes into our wine she told me she had to tell me something.
Turns out she was a dancer, paid for her education and now is top paralegal in a fancy firm in the area.
She waited for my answer which was " I was a door bouncer in a topless bar when I was a cop. Lived with the bartender for a few years, our house and pool had more strippers in it than I could count. They got treated as normal people because they were"
End of subject. We had a great afternoon.
If someone is constantly adoring and admiring toward me, it's exactly as you said - it's annoying, and not only that, it's objectifying. It's not real, and has nothing to do with me. It's just another way of using someone else as a means to gratification.
Same goes if he continually compliments my appearance. Or is constantly touching me, pinching my ass, etc. It's like, dude, I KNOW you can't wait to get laid. But can we just talk about something else for like, 5 minutes? Nice day out, isn't it? Supposed to rain tomorrow, I think. In a relationship, I'd expect that a partner to start thinking, after hour 8 or so, that I'm kind of getting on his nerves and he wouldn't mind having an evening to do his own thing... Because that's how real people feel after spending a lot of time togetherOnce I have an "empty sack" any clinginess I might have had goes right out the door and I too want some alone time. Unless of course we fall asleep together, that about the only thing I want to do together after sex most of the time when in a "real" relationship.
This is the reason I doubt I will ever get married again, and why I think I make such a good BF for a hooker. I don't want THAT MUCH togetherness and I certainly don't want to be up your ass all day. Quite frankly most "women stuff" bores me to tears, just like you don't want to be sitting your ass all day at the bar watching sports with me. I think one of the biggest "tells" about whether a guy is going to be too clingy is if the guy actually enjoys going to the mall with you, Now don't confuse this with pretending to like it early in the relationship when he likes EVERYTHING about you, but a guy who really enjoys it, That guy is going to be way to clingy to deal with and you need to kick him to the curb immediately, or at least right after you max out his platinum card. lol
... dating is just difficult for women who fuck random men for a living.
The only thing i will agree with is that i can see how being in a relationship with a provider can have its challenges.Now i cannot speak for anyone but myself.
I find that the adult industry has caused me to become desensitized(numb). Now i can be extremely nurturing.But emotionally i often find that i can relate better with men than women,just bc of the nature of my job.I think it adds a bit of an "chill chick" vibe to me and often guys pick up on that When i allow myself i often wonder how will i be able to transition from doing what i do and viewing life the way i do..to being someones woman..or how would i even bring up that fact i use to provide..Honestly theres no lumps in my milkshake .Im very open with my family and friends about what i do...but i most admit this industry has altered my views,reactions,interactions with civies both good and bad I was thinking after i throw in the towel and call it quits, probably going through counseling,bc this job is very much mentally exhausting.-- Modified on 4/11/2016 5:29:20 PM
Lie or find a guy who is very non judgmental.
Lying is an option that many women take when leaving the hobby, but the longer you have done this the harder it will be to keep up that façade. Not to mention you will have to leave everyone you have ever met here, both men and women behind and completely forget this was a part of your life, which actually means killing at least a small part of yourself. The other option is to find someone who won't judge you and of course that is something easier said than done. I pride myself on having NEVER thrown a GF's past in her face in the heat of the moment when having the inevitable little fights all couples have, but it's quite easy for your "understanding" guy to throw your past in your face as is "you were just a whore when I met you" when you two get in a fight. I don't claim to have the answer, but at least I think I have the proper questions, and that's a start.
Well said.
I correspond to,the same belief: we all have pasts when we meet someone.
I'm not about to,explain or apologize for mine nor do I feel I need to know her's.
And she damn sure doesn't owe me a reason for supporting herself and her kids.
I don't like to sleep together. Eat, drink, fuck, and maybe hike or sightsee or something (although I mostly prefer to hike and sightsee alone, so that I can follow my own whims. I went sightseeing w/a friend last weekend, and got stuck in an Ugg store for 45 minutes).
I'm a mall hater, so anybody who WANTS to go the mall with me would likely not be a good match in the first place. But luckily, I seem not to attract the clingy ones IRL. In the hobby world, it's a completely different story..At least "not yet" or if I have fucked her, it's very new relationship because after the first week or two, the only way I am taking a woman to the shopping mall is at gunpoint. lol
I firmly believe any man who actually "likes" taking a woman shopping is at least secretly gay. Men go to the mall for the same reason they go see "chick flicks" in order to get laid. Once the "normal" guy has had the pleasure of fucking her, he gets his balls back and waits for her in the bar.If somebody WANTS to take me shopping, that's a strong and showy statement. It's like saying... 'See what I can give you if you are MINE? See how rich and happy I can make you?' He wants me to see him as a benefactor of some sort. He wants me to feel grateful.
When I love somebody, I do enjoy shopping for him and spoiling him... but, I'd never take him to the mall and make a show of it. If a guy wants to take me to the mall, I'd be kind of insulted. I'm not 14, and I have long since passed the phase in which a new outfit could make my day. Like, let's do something grown-up. I have a client right now I could take to the cleaners. His history is that he falls in love with EVERYBODY... his providers, secretaries, friends' wives, etc. And tries to win them over with sh**. Thing is, dealing with him is so stressful (he always wants to overstay, send me lovesick text messages, etc.) that I'd honestly prefer to be blunt with him, and brutally limit contact to sessions only. If I let him buy me sh**, then he'll expect more from meIt's probably impossible to date and provide on the side at the same time-- for scheduling reasons -- especially if you are trying to keep it secret from your date.
However, once you retire from the profession, my advice would be to never ever tell your prospective about it. Just make up some cover story -- you were in a long term relationship that was wracked with turbulence, or whatever, and you don't want to remember it, yada yada yada. It's the same for having an affair. Never ever admit it. Never confess (especially out of the blue.) Why would you want to make someone unhappy when a lie will keep them happyWhen I was young it was all about meeting a girl in a bar and seducing her THAT night. I still pick up MILF's at the gym and have sex on the first date (I'm 56), but generally only if they show an interest in me first, because I don't have time for a bunch of "courting" BS. I prefer hobbying, because I can have sex on my own schedule, often morning sessions, and don't have to cater to someone else's availability, but its always fun to see if you still have the skills you had when you were younger to seduce a woman in a few hours.
Tubbo, you need to start living life to the fullest. You're wasting your youth.Everyone has a past, but its irrelevant unless you plan to live there. I have had discussions with some of the providers I have been especially close to about whether they would ever tell their SO about their past as a working girl. The majority gave the same answer as you; that every time they got in an argument, the man would be throwing her past up to her, so they would never have a boyfriend or husband that knew.
I would hate to think that I had become one of those guys who HAS TO fuck hookers because he can't get laid any other way.
We are of similar age and my only problem is that most of the women I can still get, and get to put out on the "first date" tend to be at least 40 and I am rarely attracted to women of that age. Every once in a great while I land a twenty something, but it is happening less and less frequently as I start nearing 60, I also doubt that Tubbo is "waiting" out of his own volition where it comes to civvies, his initial tone suggests he simply isn't getting any civvie action, unless you call getting friendzoned "action"When really, you're dry as a desert and totally turned off by their tit-for-tat attitude.
Going dutch is about the most un-sexy thing in the world. And they wonder why their "looks" didn't get them laid lmao!-- Modified on 4/12/2016 10:04:46 PM
who likes a lot of compliments? I've seen some pretty gorgeous as fuck women in marriages with men who never compliment them. They lose their glow.
And I've also seen men in marriages, asking their wives how they did at this or that, and the wives say, "Don't think too highly of yourself honey. You're not all that." Jesus - at least give the person you're with constantly day in and day out something to live for.
and that doesn't go just for dating, or even only with the opposite sex. I just almost never split a check, unless it's a whopper, like one I split with a fellow monger a few years ago that was well over a grand. But for a normal tab, either I pick up the tab or someone else does, splitting up a fifty dollar lunch tab just seems so cheap and petty to me. My default answer to "do you want to split this?" is "No, I'll get it" Actually most of my friends will fight you for the privilege of picking up the check, and that's the way I like it.
BTW, this is not male ego speaking, I let female friends pick up the occasional tab, but I would never dream of asking them to "go dutch" but I am someone who hates "cheap people" I have nothing against poor or even broke people who "can't" pick up a check, but I really can't stand people too cheap to pick up an occasional tab that they can easily afford. I can only imagine how a woman out on a "date" must feel when asked to go dutch, I bet her clothes just literally fall off at the prospect.