Much has been said recently about provider-hobbiest love relationships.... Some below have said that they do not wish posts dealing with potential hobbiest and provider relationships that may lead to love.... I thought that I would offer my opinion.
Many have asked if we hobbiests fall in love... well, I guess we (or at least I) do everytime I see a provider who matches on more than just the visual level. Jealously? does it exist? Yup - just read the board... it is quite common.
What I find most interesting is that the fantasy is of a beautiful woman who worships your every move. A woman who is able and willing (within certain bounds) to satisfy sexual thirst at your convenience. A woman who is open and frank about asking your needs and wants, and will go to reasonable lengths to satisfy them... This is almost the opposite of some of the sex reported in marriages (NOT ALL marriages, but some). There is also the anticipation - coupled with the absolute certainty that "things are gonna happen." The reality of our daily lives sometimes replace the fantasy of the promise of our hopes.... There are some who manage to keep the fantasy a reality and perpetuate a true level of satisfaction forever, but the majority of us, alas, cannot.
The reality is, kids, mortgage, jobs, careers, neighbors, relatives and all the "stuff of life" creep into our marriages or relations and often dim the brilliance of the fantasy. What the hobby seems to bring to some is not the everlasting beauty of a sunset, but rather the fleeting radiance of a shooting star... and the respite from the day to day - is much appreciated....
But! the reality is - where some hobbiests and providers explore... the same problems and issues that arrise in any relationship germinate and grow and perhaps in this field they are fertilized and nutured by the jealousy of "who were you with and did you like him better than I?" or, "you think I don't know that you still hobby - how do you think that makes me feel?"
and yes, the laundry does need to be done, the bills still have to be paid.... I mean after all, while to you achieveing a civie relationship with Ms. HotProvider is a crowning achievement of personal extasy, ComCast does not really care... and only wants MONEY!.... and least we forget, we come to the meeting and the lady is always glad to see us... but in real life - she may tire of our simple dress - or our need to shave - or our snoring.... or whatever.... and the hobbiest finds that when not wearing the latest Victoria Secret offering, our lady loves to snuggle in sweat pants and a tattered old football jersey... yea she does...
so to all that wish to try this... I wish you the best... and hope that you do capture what you are looking for. I've never had the illusions of which I write... my wants are very much far simpler... but no easier to achieve... and no matter what your wants or desires from the realationships, I think it better to try, than to not try... and on that account, I do wish you success - for if you succeed, then that too, provides a form of hope... and I for one, do not tire of these posts... so please let us know how it goes. Thank you all for sharing.
The providers that I love the most (and I do really love them) are those that share reality with me. Both the reality of their lives, and the reality of the relationship between us.
Sure, it is great to enjoy the fantasy--and I do. But that fantasy is not only not reality, it is also no way to build a real relationship.
and like you, providers who share with me some of their reality... well, I too, like them better... as that provides a person to make love to, and not a robot to "get you off"!
Thanks for the refinement.
This "hobby" is a fantasy that we get to act out for an hour at a time (and it's a fairly expensive one, as fantasies go). BSD, I think you described the fantasy rather well in the first part of your post. I am definitely looking for the fantasy, not for a girlfriend or a mistress (in the traditional sense).
Of course, if you see someone a few times and you like her as a person, you begin to be a bit curious about her. Over time, I ask a few gentle questions, to get some sense of her goals and views, but I try not to pry. And I definitely don't want to hear about major drama or issues with boyfriends, children, car payments etc. Of course I know they have these things, but for me it definitely breaks the fantasy to spend a lot of time on this.
Likewise, I'm only comfortable answering certain questions about myself. I like to talk about where I have traveled and restaurants I have tried. I talk in a general way about my job. I get uncomfortable if they ask about my wife, why I've never had children, why I do this, etc.
I tend to think of the time I spend with a provider as a mini-vacation. I know she is working, but I'm on vacation. Please don't bring us back to the ordinary world by talking about your kid's flu shot or my wife.
That being said, I am always interested in a provider's goals, whether in the business or out. This is not a business she can be in forever, so I think it's good for her to have a plan - how she is going to save money and what she is going to do afterwards. I am concerned if I come to care for someone and they don't seem to have a plan. Call me cold and selfish, but that's about the extent of my interest.
filmat11
-- Modified on 9/10/2007 2:05:48 PM
I'm not sure if I agree or disagree with you...I like getting to know the person that I'm laying naked with.
I've traded glances at pictures of the kids and discussed personal stuff above the level of hobbyist/provider. At the same time, I try to steer very clear of all of life's trials & tribulations. On the few occasions that I've crossed that line, it kills the fantasy for me. Right before crossing that line seems to be the perfect spot IMHO, because you know each other more, and she still is really into you, but her problems wait at the door until the end of the appointment. That may sound incredibly selfish, but I try to bring my "A" game, and don't bitch about her rates, so I guess it's fair.
I'm comfortable w/ my provider gf in her sweats and no makeup, gettin' drive-thru and going back to her place to change the sheets and do the laundry....we went thru a year of intense, crazy sex, then settled down. Not as exciting, but much more fulfilling.
im normally a very honest person but i will lie like a rug and take my secret to the grave if i ever meet someone i want to date civvie style. he will never be told what i do for a living.
i limit my men to no more than once a month to keep from becoming emotionally or financially dependent on anyone.... i've relaxed and allowed a few to see me weekly but only on a prepaid monthly rate.
the ones i really like i might put off for 2 months.
if i'm paid to go away, i have to make sure i can keep my end of the bargain. sometimes its harder than you might think.
Looks, sex, even chemical attraction are nice and I enjoy them with many a fine provider; but unless you see something about the person that you desire in and of themselves, so that all of life's little annoyances become irrelevant, then it is not a good idea to start up an SO relationship.
The qualities can, and will be, different for each of us.
How will you know? You just do.
Something I sometimes struggle with is when I go into a session with a first time client, or a second or third session with a repeat client, and they talk about how much they love who am am and everything about me, or even that they "love me" as a person. Sometimes I have to gently point out that you "love" the fantasy, the person I am at my very best, the perfect girlfriend minus the problems, and that in my real life, that is not me. It's a part of me, but it certainly isn't the whole me. I think the willingness of providers to give such intense sexual and emotional intimacy (or at least the illusion of it) can be overwhelming for some guys, because they cannot distinguish that this is the provider part of me. It's not me faking or pretending anything- I consider myself to be very open and straightforward with my clients- but at the same time, if a gal comes to a paid session, she would never dream of bitching about her horrible day or showing up without having time to shower or apply make-up, or denying you the sex that you expect to get. YOUR needs and expectations come first- that is what you are paying for, and it is a totally reasonable expectation, but know that this is an unequal balance of power in some ways, an exchange of fantasy and meeting of mutual needs in different ways, that to me precludes real intimacy in the traditional sense. Not to say I don't feel close to some of my longtime clients, but "longtime" for me, being in this business since May, means the past four months. Time and experience certainly create increasing comfort and affection for one another, but it is certainly not the same as the intimacy between civilian friend or within a dating relationship.
Just my .02
XoXo
Marea
All I was in search of was reality and that's exactly what I got. A real friend with real problems, real shortcomings, real gifts, and we managed to build a real relationship with a level of intimacy I've been unable to establish with anyone else, even my wife of 30 years.
As you said earlier, in our marriages things get in the way. Even in very successful marriages there are often lots and lots of hidden hurts and resentments that prevent people from establishing a relationship with great depth. Great breadth, maybe, but the depth may not be as easily achieved. While talking this over with a friend the other day, i compared the relationship with my ATF to us falling down a mine shaft together- lots and lots of depth, but relatively little breadth. We are at a place now where w can start working on the breadth, too.
This has been the first relationship of my life that I've entered into completely consciously, conscious of why I was entering it, what I expected from it and what I could give to it, and it has been a truly amazing experience. One of the most difficult experiences of my adult life but also one of the most rewarding.
My ATF recently retired and is in the process of moving away but we both are dedicated to maintaining our relationship in some form. How we manage to do that remains to be seen and I'm looking forward to doing the work necessary to make that happen even as the typical hurt and 'lovesickness' is present. It's been hard as hell but almost anything worth having is hard as hell to get, isn't it?
Bravo!
Oh - and bravo for the two of you, too!
I really enjoy getting to know the provider, I like that reality. I feel more comfortable when I get to know the person I'm with. I feel like if we can talk about some personal things about our lives, the session than becomes more personal, and for me, that much more enjoyable.
Sometimes we can talk about our personal lives, and sometimes we can talk about our experiences in the hobby.
I am very good with boundaries, but I also feel that good friendships can develop between provider and hobbyist. From different threads I've read here in the months that I've been in the hobby, it sounds like some of the best friendships people have developed in their lives are the ones they developed in the hobby.
Runningman
Seems like this to me...
Visual Attraction = Nice Time
VA + Great Attitude = Fantasy Time
VA + GA + Compatable Personalites = XTC Time
VA + GA + CP + Mutual Attraction = Danger!...the client will fall in "love", if he isn't super careful...some one will probably end up getting hurt in the long run.
I think the providers can fall in "love" with the right clients too but the "formula" is a bit different.
Well said, and beautifully written. eom
Here's take. The gentlemen is paying for a respite from his ordinary world. He is in part expecting you to be upbeat, pleasent and in good spirits. If I am having a really bad day and it might reflect on my attitude, I will call my next appointment and offer a cancellation and be honest about why.
I usually let my clients reveal as much as they feel comfortable with. I like to be more of a listener than a contributor.
AS far as clients wanting to get into my "other" life....I lie like a rug as you only need be bitten once to know you don't need that drama. I realize some of you great ladies and guys have formed real close friendships with each other and that's great. For me I like some distance. I will always be very glad to see you and make you feel wanted and appreciated but on a work level.