was suffering from severe burnout from working too much. The constant stress and anxiety of working this particular job basically put me in a straight jacket. I would up having an anxiety attack at one time, followed by a few months of severe depression.
I wound up quitting the job, and then I met my steady hooker whom I've had for the past 2 years. Now I'm not trying to say that sex with a hooker is this amazingly fulfilling and meaningful thing that forges a permanent bond forever. But this particular lady was (and still is) very special, and our sessions helped ease the stress of my job so greatly that I didn't need medication. Eventually I even found a much better job. Much happier now. Basically I would be totally delusional to try to say that my ATF wasn't one of the most special people I've ever known. Or that our times together didn't at least "help" to rescue me from a very bad place. Basically anything and everything about the hobby for me that was good and positive ... had everything to do with her, and still does. She puts all of her heart and energy in to what she does, so I could never totally look down on a profession that has her in itI tend to put a lot of passion in my forum responses.. Sometimes, I admit, I come off a bit dramatic. It's probably due to the fact that Ive always shown just as much adoration to my lovers whether they've paid or not. For me, the act of sharing your flesh with someone is actually sacred. (I'll Pause for your cynical laughter)
Whether I meet a guy at a bar and fuck him in the bathroom 10mins later..only to never see him again.. That moment in life, to me...meant something. If I cross paths with this guy, years down the line...There's something in me that will feel some kind of connection to him.
Someone PMd me, basically saying, "stop pretending like any of this is meaningful." First off, it upset me, because it's always meaningful to me (with or without the money) and then it made me sad to think that there are people out there completely devoid of any emotions to the people they share a bed with. How do you fake kiss someone? How do you fake a caress?
Are we really that meaningless to you?
anything you read on this discussion board personally. There are many participants, like you and I, who are 100% sincere when they add a post here.
Am betting you can take most of what you read on this board, from almost all providers and the majority of hobbyists, as honest, forthright, and genuine.
Yet there are a few who create an online persona which takes on a character far removed from the reality of their every day lives and their input here clearly reflects the pure fiction of that online persona.
Still others use their posts as an opportunity to act out their frustrations with cynicism or blatant sarcasm. While there only a few of them, these people have little respect for themselves, let alone providers, like the individual who PMed you.
While these latter two cases, IMHO are in the minority, they do not seem interested in the free exchange of honest ideas but provide input to check the reaction of others for their own warped, personal enjoyment.
Just remember that not only are you dealing with the general public but you are also going to come across some bozos trying to walk on the dark side and dehumanize you.
Why? Their insecurity...their bad attitude...their problem.
Don't allow them to put their bad shit on you.
Richard Gere, WHERE ARE YOU?!?!?! 😂😂😂
Hell No you ladies aren't Meaningless. Most ladies I've met I've become friends with. I consider my ATF special. We have a pretty good thing going beyond our sessions.
Not only " meaningful "
But "powerfully meaningful "
More so now than when I was married!
This fills a void for many and for lack of
A better word (s) A provider makes us feel:
Special
Confident
Courageous
Hot! Lo
I take care of patients in a special situation where members of my group have a lot of time to care for older patients many of whom are very sick. We develop close relationships. I believe what I do is profound (sacred some would say.) I believe sharing moments of intimacy like you do is also profound. I have had what i feel to be deep feelings for many of the providers I have seen. Some I saw for years, some as briefly as once, but I have been deeply touched.
I am in my mid 70's and I can't imagine not doing what I am doing professionally. It is easy to dismiss what i do and what you do in a cynical way, and I can list many other work as profound as well.
Incidentally, I get called for jury duty and where I live I am automatically excused if I wish because of my age and because of my profession. I never asked to be excused as I think serving on a jury is also a profound and almost sacred duty and experience. I get ridiculed for that as well at times. I fell sad for those who are cynical about things like this.
do not have any real meaning. They assume the lives of others do not, failing to realize it is really only within themselves that the cynicism and emptiness resides. When they meet someone who is whole and full of life, their emptiness resonates and this angers or upsets them. They feel compelled to drain the joy and beauty from others.
Others distinguish between "this world" and "real life"; again, they fail to realize that what happens in this world is in fact a part of their real life... that the world does not cease to exist while wrapped in the arms of a special "friend". It may be play, but it is real.
Most, I believe, can and do appreciate very much what occurs in this part of their lives, and like you seek out and find the beauty and significance in the friends they meet.
No Savy, you are not meaningless. You shine with the fullness of life and beauty. Do not let the empty few, the vampires of p4p drain you of that
any limitations that will render our interactions meaningless. What makes this all meaningful to me is the interplay between a man and a woman that range from let me clean my pipes to how thoughtful you can be for and with your temporary lover. I prefer the latter.
It's by allowing yourself the opportunity to connect with another and finding a common thread that brings you back again. And again. Not for just that gut wrenching orgasm but by sharing those carnal moments with someone you allows you to be yourself.
And it is that sense of self that runs through these threads so evidently where we can get a sense of each other's persona.
I can feel a woman's authenticity to a high degree of accuracy by engaging them here much like I can with a woman outside the hobby. But it can be more than a hobby if you want it to be.
Connections can be made and savored in the bedroom or in offline PMs that expand ones interest that can fuel a future rendezvous.
I wax a bit romantic because I allow romance to happen within those interactions because it feels good too. And when it doesn't, I still allow myself the opportunity to experience the horizon of that person's meaningfulness.
And in those glorious words of the world's best band ... "the live you take is equal to the love you make
no matter how long the duration. I mean how many truly perfect moments are there in life. Not many because assuming sobriety, I bet each and every one of us remember them all.
However, if we fake it, a relationship can last 20 years but it's kind of like 20 years of eating $2 steak - yes, we still call it steak but it's really tough and more often than not makes us feel sick to our stomachs and rarely (no pun intended) can we remember a single bite.
-- Modified on 3/22/2016 6:50:18 AM
Point me to one person who will admit he/she is meaningless. To understand the other person requires a lot of efforts or sympathy or even the color of her blouse/his slacks. Not much things in this life is quite primitive, but plentifulness of view angles, view points sometimes makes it difficult to distinguish. Different backgrounds, education, interests; different books people read and believe in different things. Emotion, passion - that's what drives these relationships. Well, money too, but I won't go into this discussion now, enjoying this peaceful thread. Have everyone great morning. Xo
are those I feel something special with. I know we're not supposed to get emotionally involved with providers, but I do care about the special ones. I think about them often, hope their lives are going well, hope that whatever plans they had when I saw them are working out, and I miss them.
Every time you open the door for me it is a major event for me...sometimes I still can't believe that you make fat old me feel like the most important man in the world...I thank the gods every day for you...
I enjoyed reading this thread and everybody is different in this hobby.
We know it's about the sex and money.
It's nothing wrong with enjoying your work and acting like a real person too.
Whether I meet a guy at a bar and fuck him in the bathroom 10mins later..only to never see him again.. That moment in life, to me...meant something. If I cross paths with this guy, years down the line...There's something in me that will feel some kind of connection to him.
Someone PMd me, basically saying, "stop pretending like any of this is meaningful." First off, it upset me, because it's always meaningful to me (with or without the money) and then it made me sad to think that there are people out there completely devoid of any emotions to the people they share a bed with. How do you fake kiss someone? How do you fake a caress?
Are we really that meaningless to you?
Those of us who participate are not meaningless. There are different types of players. Since I have a family and a social circle I look at it as a sexual encounter. It is not an emotional encounter for me. I don't see how the hobby could function if emotion beyond sexual was involved.
Most of the men and women involved compartmentalize our lives in order to avoid hassles.
Meaningless as people? No.
..but we are all grown ups (well most of us) and the reality is that it still is a business transaction. Some really seem to lose sight of that. I treat my sessions like I treat my lapdances and stripclub VIPs- I'm deeply in it at the moment, but afterwards it's back to real life.
All the providers I have met have been treated special. They have given me the same in return. I always take a small gift and dress nice out of respect for the ladies. What you give and how you treat people will always come back 10 fold.
If it's not meaningful to someone, then to them, none of this is meaningful. But if it is to you, then it is meaningful. Obviously using discernment and constantly checking in to make sure we're not lying to ourselves or allowing people to break our hearts over and over would be a good idea. lol.
But as far as I'm concerned, it took making an entirely new name and building an entirely new network who didn't know my past, or even present and future in my real life, to really learn some things I could never learn under my real name and real life. So to me, this is extremely meaningful, and has worked out some things inside of me that 30 years of regular life never even scratched the surface in teaching me.
About people, about my responsibility to cultivate and develop healthy relationships, to attract healthy people, and now to discern what is even good and bad for me. Also, I'm patient with my personal & professional growth, and very understanding to myself in the process. Didn't use to be that way.
And do I have feelings when I'm having sex with a stranger? Takes a few dates to really open up and find beautiful things in intimacy, but it is meaningful to me. Exploring a person not just physically, but watching them open up and seeing an extremely vulnerable part of them - their sexuality?
To me, it stays meaningful because I like relationships, and I also am careful of whom I let enter my world, as I don't want to start building walls and hardening my heart to protect myself from dangerous souls, or souls who take away from MY feelings about what I do. I want people who find meaning in their dates with me, not people who find this pointless and meaningless.
I definitely don't mind opening up with discernment at different levels depending on the person's needs and wants. Not everybody is going to open up at the same level, so that's something we have to consider too. There are different levels of meaning here to different people, which is OK. For me though, someone who gets nothing but a "pop" or two out of this won't be right for me, because I don't want that influence to tarnish my ability to really give myself to the people investing a lot in me.
It's awesome and very healing to me. 
-- Modified on 3/22/2016 8:40:12 AM
Some of what we do is forgettable.
Some of what we do is regrettable.
And some of what we do is meaningful.
On the contrary, providers are absolutely, without any doubt, my favorite people.
Every moment, every caress and every word and expression means the world to me. This is the only intimacy I get, and the only intimacy want or need.
If we hook up, even if it's only one time, you will carry a piece of me, and I will carry a piece of you...forever. No provider is unimportant or meaningless to me; each one is unique and special in her own way.
-- Modified on 3/22/2016 7:52:19 AM
I'm sure I will be pounded by the WKs. This is a business transaction brought about one parties desire to experience something different. Perhaps they lack the skills, or time, to experience what they want in the civvee world. So we have the envelope. Two ships passing in the night who choose to bump uglies for a while.
It's like buying a ticket to a concert, sporting or theatre event. It provides some entertainment on that day and can be quite enjoyable. I have attended hundreds of these but very few are memorable much less meaningful. Life goes on and the memory of the interaction fades rapidly.
Call me a cynic but this is a simple physical transaction. Whats the old saying, "you pay a provider to leave" after the event.
Fire away.
Whether I meet a guy at a bar and fuck him in the bathroom 10mins later..only to never see him again.. That moment in life, to me...meant something. If I cross paths with this guy, years down the line...There's something in me that will feel some kind of connection to him.
Someone PMd me, basically saying, "stop pretending like any of this is meaningful." First off, it upset me, because it's always meaningful to me (with or without the money) and then it made me sad to think that there are people out there completely devoid of any emotions to the people they share a bed with. How do you fake kiss someone? How do you fake a caress?
Are we really that meaningless to you?
You're just playing devils advocate. But, even still..I love hearing different opinions because it causes me to look at things from every angle. Non of us have denied or are forgetting that we are entering into a transaction.
(You said that people tend to enter this transaction usually if they lack the skills and time to experience what they want in the civie world... ) is this sited somewhere or is this coming from your own personal diary of my life as a hobbyists?
This is so general that I could use it to argue my point.. Yes! Indeed.. It is a transaction and because some people lack the skills and time to experience what they want in the civie world, they join p4p in search of INTIMACY with a beautiful and engaging woman..etc
And Im sorry.. I find it really strange to think that you could attend a sporting event and it not remain with you in some way..I can recall every Yankee game I've ever been to. I can't tell you how many times I've felt like a different person after every Broadway show I've attended.. And I won't get started talking about how i cried like a baby the first time I saw Trent Reznor in concert standing within 5 feet of me! And there have definitely been some monumental fucks in and out of the industry that will give me goosebumps for the rest of my life. These are all the kinds of experiences that help shape a person. And if you can't see that... Then you should start picking some cooler shit to do with your free time that actually means something to you... and if youre going to take the opposing side of a discussion? I'd put some more thought into your debate.
Come at me bro -
-- Modified on 3/22/2016 11:40:38 PM
There is no intimacy when someone pays you to be their friend. "Want to" will always trump "paid to."
Real intimacy takes time and commitment to develop. Sharing hopes and dreams and helping them up when they have been knocked down and bloodied. Not because an envelope was laid down on the night stand and you spread your legs. Sex does not mean intimacy, just like intimacy does mean sex.
Yes, you can "rent" a woman who is out of your league. That is a simple transaction. Guy gets to fuck a woman he probably couldn't get a date with and she gets a new pair of Jimmy Choos. It is what it is. You go your separate ways. Maybe he sees you again, maybe not. Do you really think a 21 year old is seeing an 80 year old for anything but money?
There are numerous academic studies that I could cite/site that explain why men go see prostitutes. You can google them.
As for cool stuff:
I have flown on the Concorde. When it broke the sound barrier that was amazing. Memorable
We took a year off and traveled the world. All seven continents, yes Antartica too, and 41 countries. Meaningful
Played on state championship football team. A perfect example of non sexual intimacy. 60 guys who spent thousands of hours working together to achieve a difficult goal. Many years later we stay in contact and continue to share the experience of our lives. Very little talk of long ago victories.
A simple business transaction. People do complicate it like some of the johns here, who fall for their hookers. I wish you the best as you find your way through life.
(You said that people tend to enter this transaction usually if they lack the skills and time to experience what they want in the civie world... ) is this sited somewhere or is this coming from your own personal diary of my life as a hobbyists?
This is so general that I could use it to argue my point.. Yes! Indeed.. It is a transaction and because some people lack the skills and time to experience what they want in the civie world, they join p4p in search of INTIMACY with a beautiful and engaging woman..etc
And Im sorry.. I find it really strange to think that you could attend a sporting event and it not remain with you in some way..I can recall every Yankee game I've ever been to. I can't tell you how many times I've felt like a different person after every Broadway show I've attended.. And I won't get started talking about how i cried like a baby the first time I saw Trent Reznor in concert standing within 5 feet of me! And there have definitely been some monumental fucks in and out of the industry that will give me goosebumps for the rest of my life. These are all the kinds of experiences that help shape a person. And if you can't see that... Then you should start picking some cooler shit to do with your free time that actually means something to you... and if youre going to take the opposing side of a discussion? I'd put some more thought into your debate.
Come at me bro -
-- Modified on 3/22/2016 11:40:38 PM
And I remember the good things about them.
or self worth.
...but I don't know when I'll next be in NYC.
I appreciate passion, and I agree, no matter who it is, if I'm kissing them, I feel something for them.
Damn , why haven't I ever met a girl like you in a bar...lol
But on a serious note , ignore the morons .
You are who you are. And that needs no explanation . Nor should it require validation from strangers.
Some of us have a genuine respect and value practitioners of the ancient and honorable profession. For some the act of intimacy is not conditioned by circumstance or cultural morals. It is a moment of specialness between two individuals.
Every lady in the biz gets those kind of sick emails & PMs. Always anonymous or from an alias. Misogamist are drawn to this community like a pervert to a public restroom.
Best advice is to ignore not empower. They will never understand and probably suffer an incurable obsession.
No one like that defines you or should affect your day.
Stay safe
Stay you......pleeeeze , stay you
What happens when a client feels too much meaning from visiting with you?
Nobody can make you feel bad about yourself except for you.
If you give it your all, and believe in what you do, then it matters not what the other says or does.
As for myself, I cherish each encounter, good or bad.
It has been my experience, far more than I care to count, the provider has been devoid of emotions. They waltz out the door as if I wasn't even in the room. Picked up the envelope, without even saying thank you or good bye. So, it must be a very rare provider who gives a shit about the time spent with a gentleman.
Just the facts from my own experiences.
Be nice. Do your best. Treat others like how you want to be treated. If they don't find it meaningful, let them be. We all know what we are here for and the job can be done with the choice of it carry out beautifully or bitterness and ugliness. Just like anything, no one is forcing us to be here. We might have a situation or whatever the heck that we have to do what we do as how most things in life is but we can either enjoy it while we're going through it or we can have a bitch resting face. ; )I was at Trader's Joe the other day, one of those food stall that make sampling food for you to try. There was a girl and I swear both times I was being very polite asking for couple plastic spoons.....not a word or even a glance up from her. A bitch resting face as if it she had just been to a funeral. For which I was so tempted to ask did your family just all died? And you have to be here working at a job you hate? How much of a difference of someone who's handling the same job whether they like it or not for whatever reason they have to be there but with an appreciation or positive attitude or just a smile would do. Maybe at times you can't say anything nice but a smile would do...
Just continue to be you and if it's meaningful to you...keep it up ! I'm sure most will appreciate an appreciation attitude since it's meaningful to you, and once awhile you'd get an ugly soul or catch them at a bad time or whatever the heck they're going. As if they're being forced to hobby. They can go to an MP if they like an unmeaningful dine and dash without must niceness or exchange
And maybe thats why they hobby....it seems from listening to some of the guys on here, it really is meaningless to them .....I know for me I'm actually surprised at what providing has done for me....I thought maybe it would be a meaningless no connection type of thing but I find that a connection sparks pretty easily and it can become meaningful....don't let it upset you...your simply just passionate and that's a good quality....
Whether I meet a guy at a bar and fuck him in the bathroom 10mins later..only to never see him again.. That moment in life, to me...meant something. If I cross paths with this guy, years down the line...There's something in me that will feel some kind of connection to him.
Someone PMd me, basically saying, "stop pretending like any of this is meaningful." First off, it upset me, because it's always meaningful to me (with or without the money) and then it made me sad to think that there are people out there completely devoid of any emotions to the people they share a bed with. How do you fake kiss someone? How do you fake a caress?
Are we really that meaningless to you?
was it oldfartmonger? bs4ever? the jack dunphy school of i know what everyone should think?
screw them savannah, only not literally.
i find great meaning in this. sure most mongers here think the term "mangina" is too masculine for me (tho on the regional boards in california, where men appreciate women and all they do, i am more accepted for my philosophy).
however, for my own personal reasons of my emotional journey through life, what you ladies do for me is not only meaningful, it's soul-saving. and i am becoming to understand that for most the educated (not necessarily school educated, but life educated) among the women, it's meaningful for them, too.
i know the conventional wisdom outside of this endeavor is that anyone who partakes must be broken in some way; the women must be damaged or they wouldn't sell their virtue, the men must be either louts who disrespect women or losers who can't get women.
although there are plenty of people in this endeavor who fit those descriptions, there are also plenty of people who don't partake in p4p that fit those descriptions.
and there are plenty of people in p4p that are more complex and nuanced than that... i get a feeling you are one of them savannah. i believe i am too.
so who cares what some jackass pms you about how you feel about your life? it's what you feel that counts, not them. and obviously they are jealous on some level of your convictions and keen personal self-awareness, or they wouldn't have taken the trouble to try to limit you.
your zest for this life obviously frightens them in some way.
as winston churchill once said, you go, girl!
enjoy seeing if we were in the same city and not over 1000 miles away.
Now stop whining about that and stop BSU'ing too.
Remember when you had potential? LOL
-- Modified on 3/22/2016 8:52:53 PM
as winston churchill once said, you go, girl!
Even if it means paying for it, when I click with a lover I feel I’m in heaven with her, and that is enough meaning for me even if short lived. Stay strong.
was suffering from severe burnout from working too much. The constant stress and anxiety of working this particular job basically put me in a straight jacket. I would up having an anxiety attack at one time, followed by a few months of severe depression.
I wound up quitting the job, and then I met my steady hooker whom I've had for the past 2 years. Now I'm not trying to say that sex with a hooker is this amazingly fulfilling and meaningful thing that forges a permanent bond forever. But this particular lady was (and still is) very special, and our sessions helped ease the stress of my job so greatly that I didn't need medication. Eventually I even found a much better job. Much happier now.
Basically I would be totally delusional to try to say that my ATF wasn't one of the most special people I've ever known. Or that our times together didn't at least "help" to rescue me from a very bad place. Basically anything and everything about the hobby for me that was good and positive ... had everything to do with her, and still does. She puts all of her heart and energy in to what she does, so I could never totally look down on a profession that has her in it
Sure, I could have gone to a traditional therapist, but I'm more than happy with how things turned out here.
My participation in this hobby completely changed the course of my life. Nothing meaningless about that. Who can explain why certain people come into our lives. Why I chose this provider over that one. I tend to think there is a bit of destiny involved, and that for reasons I can't explain, I was supposed to meet these women. And every one was unique. Some of the ladies I connected with emotionally, but not sexually. Some sexually, but not emotionally. And yes, some I didn't connect with at all. The best ones I connected with both emotionally and sexually. I can honestly say I love these women, and that these relationships have as much weight and meaning to me as any outside this hobby. I see nothing wrong with a provider and client sharing mutual attraction and affection for one another. Doesn't that just add to the session for both parties? Alyson Parker wrote in an earlier post that human relationships are complex, and I agree with her. They come in a lot of different shapes and sizes. I view this hobby as another means of experiencing relationships in my life, no less valid or meaningful than any other relationship in my life.
But it reads like you’ve already decided to bring it to the table beforehand in a hopeful state of mind, so then it is left up to the other to reciprocate.
OTOH, if the client doesn’t have optimism in him from the start, then a cynical approach leans towards doubt and lack of meaning (same goes with the provider).
More or less, it does make me wonder what state will be reinforced whether two click together or not. But the optimist will usually find something positive in the experience no matter how lackluster. Not to say pessimism doesn’t have its place; it does. It says, be careful; be aware of being ripped off, but too much of it can lead to doubting not only one’s own pleasure but the others' pleasure based on conditions (Just saying, going back to her doubtful client.)
-- Modified on 3/24/2016 7:38:51 AM