This was brought up by a friend of a friend who I met over the weekend who said that in his home town they should have a seperate section for "racist" and "non-racist" providers in the local alt weekly. I didn't know this was a common thing, so I got curious and scanned a few websites, found that it's more common that I would have thought (I wouldn't have thought it happened at all) Most confusing are those who refuse to see clients of their own race. Why is this?
Why is a provider racist because she doesn't see all races? That's not being racist. I have never seen an african american client becauseit seems they all want white providers so should I also call them racists?
I don't see why it is considered 'racist' in a negative conotation because a provider, or hobbyist, wants to pick and choose who they wish to have sex with. Hobbyists choose providers based on body type, looks, hair, size, etc. Why is that somehow OK, but adding race to the decision process is bad? Its politically correct nonsense. Everyone has a right without limits, to decide who and when they are going to agree to sex with anyone else.
If they only want to see white providers then I would say "Yes" that is racist. I am a black hobbiest and I see all races. I am drawn to a smile and a glow...whatever color is attached is not relevant.
An escort recently said to me: I don't see Pakistanis ("because they smell"), Arabs ("because they are dirty and violent"), Blacks (no reason given) and this was all in the same sentence as telling me she hates Eastern European escorts because they are all thieves. I was stunned and needless to say after this outburst I declined the offer she was making to do doubles with her!
Whatever spin they want to put on it, that's the bottom line.
I don't like stupid people, rude people or inconsiderate people. But, fortunately this can usually be screened out. But do I care what 'race' they belong to? Why would you? None of these characteristics appear to be genetic. If they were, these people would have died out 100's of generations ago, because no one would shag them.
Maybe to fulfill the fantasy part of the hobbiests needs, the provider has to be able to "get into the session" herself. I know that when I am with a provider who is not into the session, I become the clock watcher.... tick. tick. tick. tick. and cannot wait until the session is over. When she is into the session, things just seem to go a lot better and are more fun.... I must say that if the provider is polite and not a jerk about not being into me, it does not cause me to give her a bad score, only not see her again (although I like variety).
With respect to being into someone, if I am with someone who is not into me, often I wished that they had asked when I called to make the appointment "Do you have green skin, a sharply angled face and are we likely to be interrupted by a mild mannered reporter doing a story on artificial intelligence and artificial stupidity?" That way I could at least go find someone who gets turned on by my "super abilities."
Lets face it, you would not be upset if I only went to wimen who shaved as opposed to those who were au natural! right? or who had long hair vs. short hair (no matter the color!) well this too is a fantasy - and if you can come as close to your fantasy as possible, in terms of how your partner looks, why not... Member, my opinion, most of the wimen in this, and who are good at it, get into the fantasy as well, so, as much control as they can exert is possible, they should exercise.... Hey some will only see guys over 40! Go figure.
Now onto my thoughts about you! Ms Bond ya turn me on! you are articulate, smart and have a serious funny streak running through ya! Are you into dudes who can see through clothes? lift buildings with their parts? and love dark haired wimen who resemble a certain Warrior Princess?
Are we talking about ignorance or sexual preference, Im never quite sure.
Is the provider any different than the hobbyist in this regard? I dont have the hangups and for me wouldnt want the limitations but I do know what I prefer in women. I think most hobbyists do discriminate in some form or another whether its intentional or not.
Hobbyists "discriminate?" I certainly do, I discriminate against ugly fat women because "Old Harry" won't rise to the occasion.
Men have preferences. Surprise Surprise.. some women do, too. A woman can run her business any which way she wants, but it doesn't mean that her business is going to expand, but those are the breaks that she has to deal with. Also, who are we to judge those, who have preferences? Why is it when one woman is bold enough to put her preferences down on her website, she is criticized for it? At least she is being upfront, and is saving the hobbyist's money, if he doesn't fit her "needs".
Personally, I love dick in all colors, shapes, and sizes. I could not fathom not enjoying variety. But, to each their own. Who am I to sit here and judge someone's preferences?
Why in the world, would a hobbyist would still want to see a woman, who clearly wants nothing to do with him, per say. Why complain? I seriously doubt it's going to make her change her policy around.
My advice to your friend is for him to move on to greener pastures, where there are providers, who want his business.
Again in the end, her business may not be successful, but we cannot fault her for being upfront about her feelings on whom she may or may not want to service.
But my question is, why are providers so quick to put down other provider's policies/thoughts/views that are on their websites? Don't we have enough on our own plate to deal with, than to deal with someone else's issues? As a provider, the last thing I want is another provider who I don't know (and even if I did know her), is clearly NOT paying my bills, to tell me how I should run my business, and nor should I tell another on how to run hers.
Let the flames begin lol
-- Modified on 4/11/2005 7:19:13 AM
As you all know, I am a provider and I have friends that are as well. I know many of us refuse to see men of certain races b/c of how we have been treated in the past by those clients.
I honestly prefer NOT to see African American men b/c I have had them be EXTREMELY pushy and disrespectful towards me and even had one man try to pay me with counterfeit bills! I am sorry but if you are a cheap person, this is NOT the hobby for you. I also had a friend MURDERED by a black client a little over 3 years ago leaving behind a beautiful 1yo daughter. For me, it just seems safer not to deal with black men from experience.
I know other women prefer not to see certain races b/c some are notorious for not bathing properly on a regular basis. That is the WORST kind of person to have to deal with. Guys expect us to be clean and sweet smelling for your session, please have the same respect and courtesy for us and make sure you don't come in smelling like BO or god knows what else. It only ensures that you will be blacklisted and never seen again by that provider or anyone she knows.
Just my 2 cents...
~Barbara
You have the right to make that decision, and to take whatever measures that you feel assure your safety.
Nevertheless, I know I'm fortunate that I will never be restricted by anything Ted Bundy, or Al Capone ever did, not to mention what Stalin and Hitler did. Nor will I ever be embargoed from a provider's company because some other man assaulted her, a man who had nothing to do with me except his having white skin, no accent, and a cock. You also never feel restrictions made on a similar basis.
You and your sisters in the craft have the right, and you will alway have the right as far as I'm concerned, but I hope you see the absurdity in trying to assure your safety this way.
A providor's decesion not to see certain races does not make her a racist. What she does, is not comparable to "hiring" someone for a job. She is about to perform the most intimate of acts, she is going to allow another human being to put his sex organ into at least 2 of her orifices. She has a right to allow only those that she is comfortable to do this. I comend providers who are selective, it's their right!
Indians for personal reasons. (Hygiene has something to do with it). I think a lady has the right to see (or not see) whomever she chooses. If Emma wants to get laid by the United Nations she has that right, but has no business condemning those gals that are selective!
that is sterotypical and racist. I can't tell you how often I see men other than Blacks or East Asian leave the bathroom without washing their hands. That to me is a tell-tell sign of poor hygiene. A provider who creates the blanket criteria for a race due to hygiene is racist plan and simple.
It was a question on a touchy subject, I know, but it was an honest question. I could've used an alias, but it's not really my style.
I completely agree with what you said in your post...given the intimacy of the act, a provider needs to feel comfortable with what she is doing. If she isn't inclined to find all races equally attractive...or ages...or personalities...or men who want one hour appointments...it is her prerogative to not see them. Providers don't get government subsidies, so they are not obliged to see everyone. What the basis for this is is debatable... whether sexual preference is actually racism or not. However, if she gets enough business to do what she wants with it, it's her right.
And as for RC's last issue, I have known people who won't date their own race. Again, whether it is simply their preference or whether it is an aversion or a preconceived notion about their racemates, it depends on the individual.
the issue is whether race is a valid criteria for selecting those who are humourless, tardy, stingy, rude, inconsiderate, borderline pyscho, manipulative, smelly, rough, dull, stupid etc etc.
Am I missing something here? These unpleasant characteristics are not a function of someone's race. So therefore, a person who excludes someone on the basis of their race is not avoiding unpleasantness, or making an informed choice. They are quite simply racist, in the truest sense of the word.
You won't - probably becus I am green. and kan't talk 'trailian...
Seriously, Preferences vs. prejudice - a very serious question... god I love this board cause people ask really timeless questions here.
Preference is when I decide that I have a liking for darkhaired beauties with a slim body but noticeable breasts.... Kinda like a certain Warrior Princess... or the opposite, big breasted 5'2" types with a tiny waist and a shaved... sorry but those are my preferences... and guess what, my performance and physical enjoyment is linked to this.
I agree with you, I cannot screen for rude mean-spirited people - fortunately have only run into a couple of those in this hobby.... most providers are truely nice people. If I could screen for this - I would. What to do? In our lives we all strive to control as much of our lives as possible, but hey, so "you know who" wants me dead... so I try to avoid the guy - ya know! But he could find some red kryptonite and I would be done for. So if I cannot screen for the providers personality to a large extent, I can to some extent screen for her physical characteristics... as a general rule, I do not see anyone with less than a 35 C bust - am I prejudice or shallow!? Yup. ya betcha. But and this is a big BUT, I rate the gal on personality! (very important to me and is the reason why I give 10s) I will BC you my real id if you wish to check that out.
So now we come to prejudice - what is that!? That is when I tell YOU who you should see - based upon my "preferences." That is, you are white, therefore you can only see white folk. This is not my cup of tea, I really do not wish to tell you what to do or who to see (except maybe this old green thing....).
We all have likes and dislikes - and this hobby is no different - If we must do as you say, then you should not screen - and hopefully you do - and see everyone.
Anyhow- that is my 2 cents.
But Miss Bond, Miss Emma Bond I admire all providers who stepup to the microphone and help us with how providers - in general - feel about topics and interests - Believe it or not it helps make the sessions much better... take care...
BFD--in this area, I say the provider has a right to employ any prejudice she wants. Just as hobbyists are free to go elsewhere. In a free world there will be people who don't have the same outlook I do and as long as my right to a job, an education, a home, etc. are not impacted, big deal.
You ever see this sign on a restaurant or retail store? Of course you have!
Chrissake's There are certain races of providers I don't patronize simply because I don't find certain physical traits common to their race particularly appealing. This doesn't make me a "racist" but merely an informed and discerning consumer.
I don't know about you but if I'm spending several hundred on a provider I would rather she be there voluntarily and not forced to by politically correct protocol.
The question is one which recurs from time to time on this and other boards. I wrote a somewhat pensive post on the topic back in July - link below. The entire thread of which it is part is one which RC might find helpful reading.
AA providers sometimes lean to the fact of not seeing AA gents due to discressionary reasons.. It may be their families etc... they may be related in some way..
I wish civvies had sites so we could poll them
Of course, we all don't have that time.
Where I live that wouldn't be that far out of the realm of possibilities, though Dallas is less than an hour away, and has a high population of African Americans.
It is disappointing that in our supposed age of enlightenment some people still can't get past the color of another person's skin.
Escorts are running a business, not a personal dating service. We often see men we are not attracted to physically, but if they have a pleasant personality, we can get over the that and get on to the fun. If a lady can't get past the superficial looks of a man, she won't last two weeks in this business.
So, it's interesting that a lady will have intimate relations with an unattractive, overweight, white client without a second thought. If he's black--forget about it.
Of course a lady has to the right to limit her clients to whatever race she wants.
But she's still discriminating against someone based solely on his skin color, which most Americans believe to be morally wrong.
Bottom line, she can see whomever she pleases, but she shouldn't be surprised when many of her contemporaries (male and female) think less of her for not seeing black men.
Discrimination based solely on skin color is wrong. People can certainly do something which is wrong, but I can certainly think less of them for doing so.
There are indeed many types of prejudice, but we as a society have decided that prejudice based on skin color, as opposed to many other types of prejuduce, are particularly wrong.
I am one of those girls who don't see men of my own race, which is african american.
My preference is caucasian and asian men exclusively.
there are certain affects of certain races that are more common to guys of that race and those affects tend to make me cringe.
i also had tramatic experience in my youth that has scarred me psychologically, so it is difficult for me to be alone in a room with a man of color.
I would like to enjoy my time with my clients and not secretly hate and cringe what i am doing.
so this is what i do to alleviate that, and whoever doesn't like it, can go see someone else
~vicki
A- All want discounts
B- Some of every race have bigguns
C- some of every race have little ones
D- All want good quality time
E- If I preferred to not see caucasian gents.. would I be racist?
F- Back white yellow or bronzed- their money is just as green as anyone elses.
Assuming we are talking about AA gents.I've seen a total of 5 in 8 years.(still regular friends) Prodominantly, they dont utilize the service of escorts. (at least in upstate ny)
...I don't believe I've ever asked for or sought a discount. However, since I always pay full price, I do insist that the lady stay awake whilst I am in the throes of passion, and if she can't do that, that she at least refrain from snoring.
Would "pasty" fall under caucasian?
BTW -- since you're from Buffalo, can I call you "flame-haired Buffalo Woman"? It sounds very Native American and spiritual. My Indian name is "Not Worth Scalping".
Yes Vicki, you are a racist.
I applaud Vicki for voicing her preferences. No. I don't think she is a racist. I think she is just not attracted to certain types of men, and there is nothing wrong with it. There are men who are not attracted to certain types of females, and I consider that their preference. A woman needs to feel comfortable with her own body and mind, and if certain people don't make her comfortable, then it's her right not to be around them. I don't see where it is a difference from those men who may not be comfortable about certain types of females that they are not attracted to.
Vicki, again, I applaud your sincerity.
Yes Vicki, you are a racist.
Fisrt i want to say bobbyz's comments are cowardly. You have shown no remorse for any troubles vicky has experienced in her life. Instead, you falsely label her, all the while, hiding behind an alias, because, you bobby, really don't want anyone to know who you are. That you are really being intolerant of others peoples wishes. You by guilt tripping, want to influence her. You should be ashamed. Next time you call someone a racist, do it under your TER MEMBER NAME, not a cowardly alias...
To Vicky, please continue to see whomever you want, don't let others who are speaking out for alterior motives,,, try to influence you...
hey sweetie,
thanks for this response
and rest assured no one can make me feel guilty for making a personal choice that i feel in my heart is right for me
in MY life, it's about what makes me happy and what makes me happy is choosing to see exactly who i please, and not seeing exactly who i don't
Vicki,
I am intersted (sincerly) in what effects are more common to guys of certain races that make you cringe?
Also, statistics (I will link if necessary for any who read this) show that >90% of all rapes and sexual assault victims are the same race as their assailant. That is very valid in your case since you are AA. However, for those white providers who use the same criteria it would seem that they would eliminate white men as clients. This just doesn't happen does it? It makes me wonder why that reason is given so often by providers as a reason why they don't feel comfortable around and refuse to see men of color.
Also, statistics (I will link if necessary for any who read this) show that >90% of all rapes and sexual assault victims are the same race as their assailant.
The stat is misleading. Say 1000 mono-racial rapes occured. How many where white on white rapes, versus, black on black??
You may find that one race is raping their own kind at a much higher clip then the other race.
Mabye, insiders are aware of whom is more likely to rape, or be intolerant of the providers wishes. I know one of the above races, is very prone to anal sex. maybe a provider who doesn't offer that service, doesn't even want to see anyone of that race, for fear of being pressured into partaking in the act, and fearful if she doesn't, she will be the victim of a rape that ensures the hobbiest gets what HE WANTED, not what the provider offered...
Everyone should lay off what race, or physical features a provider wishes not to see. Those that chastize the providers, are doing so out of other interests not related to this hobby at all. The world is full of false prophets...Some of them are here at TER trying to influence...Don't fall for their BS...
I will link to a website where anyone can view in their down time.
In 2000 there were 1.1 rapes per 1000 white women and 1.2 rapes per 1000 for black women. 80% of all rapes in the US are done to white women. Out of those rapes to white women 96% are by white men.
Your statment is actually worse than it is because for the given 1000 mono-racial rapes the vast majority will be white on white since the vast majority of the population of this country is white.
And you wrote "I know one of the above races, is very prone to anal sex." I want to know what race that is and is there documentation to back that assertion? If a provider didn't want to see anyone of the race for fear of being pressured into partaking in the act that would be racial stereotyping which is a shortsighted racially biased act.
I enjoy honest dialogue with people and really look into if we are being honest in our choices or being biased in our thinking. IMOH anyone who states that they do not have a bias or prejudice is really not being honest.
I enjoy honest dialogue with people and really look into if we are being honest in our choices or being biased in our thinking.
I'm glad you appreciate honesty. I do to.
The stats in the link you provided, are not being honest.
These stats are compiled from the fbi data bases. Our country currently lists hispanic crime as caucasion crime. Tough to really gage how many white guys are raping, when every puerto rican, mexican, ect are being counted as White. This is done by design. The powers at be really don't want us to know the color of crime.
From the criminal section of your site;
The average age of rapists at arrest is 31. Fifty-two percent are white; twenty-two percent of imprisoned rapists report that they are married.
Notice how they point out 52 percent of rapists are white? What ethnic group are they LEAVING OUT?? Well lets see, we know all hispanics are counted as white, we also know they are the largest minority group in America. So their numbers are being combined with the largest ethnic group in America.
Who is the 3rd largest ethnic group in our country?? The blacks. Ok, we know who they are leaving out, now ask WHY??
One could look at the statement, whites who are (with hispanic included) 85% of the countries population commit 52% of the rape. Blacks who make up 14% of the American Population, commit 48% of all rapes!! Whoa, Your little site is playing tricks with words. Someone has to account for the other 48%. Sure we have asians and others here, i know the color of crime.
Can i prove they left ommited black crime numbers because they would overwhelm an impartial party? Maybe, i don't want to go through the trouble.
Our instincts play into our race based decisions. If you daughter was out afterdark, by herself, who would you prefer her to wonder over to for help, a group of white males, or a group of black males?
You don't have to answer, i already know.
I don't think i will explain my preference, i just prefer who i prefer, also i don't think anyone who has not been molested will ever understand those who have and everyone who has been molested does not think the same and does not have the same reaction to it
i do what feels best for me, PERIOD and that makes me feel good inside, i have tried to compromise the way i feel in order to be more politically correct and so as not to offend some, and i learned that all that does is retraumatize me over and over and make me feel bad about myself and what i do
so i quit that mess, and decided to do what is right for me
...and some folks have a wee bit of a problem with that.
for an appointment.
I see some girls that are very open about not seeing AA men. I think its because like it or not on tv, in the media, and maybe in real life AA men try to be ghetto, act like they treat women like shit, and are generally thought of in a bad light. If a lady doesnt care to fuck a guy of a certain race then by all means how can anyone sit up and say she needs to? Thats almost like rape in her mind because she is unwilling and doesnt want to.
Some ladies are not attracted to fat men, some ladies are not attracted to black men. Im sure if the ladies could weed out all the obese men they would too. Unfortnately it would limit their clients to nil if they got too picky. Some women dont see men over a certain age either should they be considered horrible people?
Should clients have the same ground rules where they have to see ladies of every race? Or how about if a provider isnt bisexual should she see women because its discrimination?
Bottom line is nobody has the right to tell anyone how to think especially in this business.
and i DON'T see women either, so i guess i am homophobic as well
i am rascist and homophobic in some people's eyes and you know what? as long as i know who I am inside, i could care less about those people, lol
People often attempt to justify it by using anecdotal evidence. It happened to me, it happened to a friend of mine...and it was a person of that race who did it to them. This is used as "proof" that all people of that race are like that, and then the prejudiced person doesn't have to go to the effort to get to know people as individuals. Instead, they can just assume that they know what the person is like, based on their race.
It is wrong to do this.
People also judge women to be emotional. People judge fat people and assume they eat a lot and are lazy. People judge handicapped and think they arent capable of doing normal everyday things. People look at ugly or deformed people and make assumptions too. WELCOME TO THE REAL WORLD. Right wrong or indifferent its society and I dont think its going to change. There is not one person that doesnt prejudge some group based on everything from height,weight, attractiveness.... ect.
Is it fair for us on the board to rail on fat people or to sit there and rate a girl based on her looks (Ok if I was drunk) even if shes a really nice person?
TER is one of the most superficial websites out there and race is definately included in the judging. This is not the place for political correctness.
There are indeed many types of prejudice, and we all have our prejudices, but we as a society have decided that prejudice based on skin color, as opposed to many other types of prejuduce, is particularly wrong.
There are indeed many types of prejudice, and we all have our prejudices, but we as a society have decided that prejudice based on skin color, as opposed to many other types of prejuduce, is particularly wrong.
I think Social engineering decided that prejuduce based on skin color is wrong, and currently is guilt tripping providers into seeing men that make them uncomfortable. This isn't job hiring, this is an individuals body, and if he/she wants to be prejudge who gets to play based on their skin color, more power to them...
Me either, but it must be a chore.
Yes, they're just like white ones, but darker.
Dont even like that... and they dont indulge in daty..
Ciara I don't know what blackmen you have been seeing because the ones I know not only love being blown but love DATY. It was a black man that gave me my first orgasm ever through DATY. When we were married his idea of foreplay was to eat me and have me cum at least four times before I could even touch him. He wanted to make me feel good in every way then after I got mine I would help him get his. I still say that a provider isn't racist if she doesn't want to see a man of a certain race and please remember there are many providers who will not see men of a certain age or men if they are too big. So what would they be called? It's just a personal decision. I was told by a black man that he wants to pay to see white women because he can get a black woman anytime and in fact he had one at home. It's a fantasy thing probably the reason why I have only seen white men. When I worked at incall locations all of the black men would see my white friend. Anytime a white man came to the door she would say Shai, it's for you and when a black guy came in I wouldn't even answer the door because he wouldn't even acknowledge me. A cuban provider saw a black client who put a knife to her throat and tried to rape her so she doesn't see black men. I can understand that. It was a black man that robbed me and his black friends cheered him on so that left me even now skittish around black men. Some providers don't want to see certain men because of traumatic events that happened to them but even if it didn't that's their choice. Why should they be with somebody in an intimate setting if they are fearful or uncomfortable? They shouldn't be and they don't have to be. I am very open to seeing black men but from my many years doing this they just don't want me.
as I said... 5 in buffalo... It must be something in the Lake Erie water.. It was anything to be debated... was just MY observation.
their own race.
It could be to minimize the chance that a costumer is someone they know or might encounter in their civilian life. Imagine the awkwardness for a young lady who doesn't show her face on her website and takes other precautions to protect her identity, opening the door to see one of her father's friends.
I can't quite understand that one either. If she does a pre-screening then she should find out if she may know the person. Also, in this hobby discretion is necessary on both sides. Her father's friend isn't going to want have his lifestyle out there any more than the provider. There are millions of AA out there so the chances of meeting dad's friend is still pretty doggone low. Why wouldn't white providers be as careful and eliminate white clients? Especially if she is providing in the area where she grew up.
Everyone has their own personal preferences, and just because you aren't into certain people doesn't make you racist. If a provider, or anyone in general, doesn't dig black dudes, or white dudes, or whatever, it doesn't make you a racist. Everyone has their own tastes. For instance, I'm a white male and I love white women. I also find asian and latin women attractive as well. However, I'm not much for black women. Does this make me racist? I get along well with people of all ethnicities, and have many black friends. I have nothing against black people. Black women just don't do anything for me personally. Everyone likes what they like, and they should be called racist because of this, plain and simple.
after all Rhue Paul is the most beautiful Black woman that ever lived and then it is Whoopy Goldberg
because most will tell you it's for losers and those who haven't got "game".
Definition of game: An abilty to charm you way into a ladies pants.
Most AA Female Escorts if they'll admit it believe deep down that most of their clients most be losers. Afterall who in their right mind would pay a woman for sex except a loser.
I know a of a provider who is paying child support to her ex. Her ex is of a different race. As a result she has decided not to see any males of that race.
same answer from me: When a woman is deciding who to let enter her body, she can employ any prejudice she likes and it's not my job to argue her out of it. As long as she's not forcing you to adopt her views, is not calling you epithets, is not denying you a job, college entrance or a home loan or otherwise impacting anything other than your feelings, she has the right to do what she wants. I see certain types of women and you can call me all the names you want but I know what floats my boat and I'm sticking to it. Bottom line--there aren't many choices more personal than the one a provider makes at the point of sale and while I would love all of us to be enlightened and progressive, not only will that not happen tomorrow but in such a personal area I'm not going to force anyone to adopt my views.
wouldn't shaming someone into accepting someone she would rather not enter her be a form of rape?