remember, this is intended to be a light-hearted discussion.
Why do you think it is that older men are often attracted to younger women?
Here's a challenge. See if you can answer without criticizing or condescending to said men.
-- Modified on 4/24/2004 8:49:43 PM
teen agers girls look more mature than boys same age, but once both get older, men age more gracefully than women same age. So it's perfectly normal for men to look for younger women later in life.
I think that could be said of most men and women who are 1/2 to 1 generation before mine but I would argue that point agressively about mine.
I am 35 years old. For every guy I know my age that looks good there are 5 women the same age that look better. My opinion is for a few different reasons. Women my age are more apt to go to a spa, get a massage, meditate, and take better mental care of themselves. Unfortunately, guys my age are hell bent on performing for their careers, families, etc. so they can try to retire at an earlier age. Futile most of the time but still a goal nonetheless. That isn't to say that we as women don't strive for the same things but if I were to put the sexes against the other, I'd say it was a draw.
*wink*
xoxo
Brooke
-- Modified on 4/25/2004 11:03:56 PM
-- Modified on 4/26/2004 8:18:40 AM
From an evolutionary perspective, it is because younger woman (in their 20's) are the most fertile and most likely to have a full term, healthy baby. These days, reproducing is often not the reason we have sex, but it is still hardwired into our genetic code.
It's for similar reasons that younger woman often prefer an older man. From an evolutionary standpoint, he is more likely to be able to provide for the family, and more likely to actually stick around.
then there's mid-life crisis issues. They want someone young, exciting and beautiful (a trophy). It's too bad that some of us are a little older, still beautiful, not demanding and smart.
Hugs,
Ciara
The emotions play out within us as "mid-life crisis" and "seeking youth," because there is an underlying agenda in our genetics, and this agenda becomes desperate as we reach the end of our reproductive lives. Can this be countered by will? Yes. Unfortunately, those most successful at countering them will likely sabotage their own evolutionary success, unless the they can radically change the environment in one generation.
Personally, I get a kick thumbing my nose at my genetic interests. Beauty is beauty, no matter what age, and a strong, sweet soul is more attractive than an immature one.
/Zin
As one of the "older" guys, let me tell you that,in my eyes, they don't have anything on you...
B
You are contradicting yourself. "More likely to stick around"? This whole thread is about how men CONTINUALLY (AS THEY AGE) desire younger women.
The people who an older man is more likely to "stick around" are the children of the union, not the mother of the children.
The evolutionary imperatives are all about the children.
Interesting thought, but maybe you're combining two issues.
The *older* guy will probably stick around the younger woman, all other elements being equal, precisely because he's older and she's younger. Sounds simplistic, but he now has his trophy and it'll probably be that much harder for him to find an even younger model. He's made the generational cut.
As far as sticking around for children is concerned, there's undoubtedly an element of truth here, but I suspect it's societal rather than evolutionary. The pressure to stay and raise children has lessened, hence the increase in divorce and single-parent families. I'm not saying that some men don't have these feelings of responsibility and obligation, though.
So much for a lighthearted discussion!
And it's a bit darker I'm afraid... Nature and genes are a great force, but should never to be mistaken for a moral authority.
Human males have it in their genes to prefer women who haven't mated before: virgins, or at least the sexually under-experienced. We are built emotionally to look for them, and it becomes more urgent as we the end of our reproductive lives. Certainty of paternity and prevention of cuckholdry is part of our code, so our resources aren't wasted on the upbringing of a children which are not genetically ours. Confidence of paternity has been under siege in our social environment in pre-history, and countering this is built into our genetics now.
Nevertheless, we are each individuals with choice, and I have a hell of a good time seeing what's in my genetic interests and doing the very opposite.
For further reading on this: Dr. Richard Alexander's books:
"Darwinism and Human Affairs."
And: "The Biology of Moral Systems."
/Zin
Well, if you are looking for a virgin for your wife, then that may explain why you are here. She's pristine, has wide hips for childbearing and no interest in boinking for the sake of boinking.
So what you are saying is that men seek young virgins to marry and grow a family with. Then when things suck in the bedroom, they look outside for either a. young girls who are not virgins b. women who are sexually experienced.
It is your animalistic tendency as a male to make children with virgins. Maybe TER should start an offshoot for the single guys.
"Non-Erotic Review, She Saved Herself for You. You marry her and write a review every night you have "intercourse (on the course to building a family, of course)".
I mounted her and shot my wad. 9 months later, Jimmy was born and he was the spitting image of...oh my gosh...that guy, who wrote some other review...Straightman? You fucking shithead, you're banging my wife. This kid is yours.
That would be a traffic kicker www.WeGotVirgins.com.
Virgins, my ass. Where are them virgins? Well, actually I was one when I was married at 21 (that marriage no longer in existence). But times are a changing. Where does a guy find a virgin? And once he finds her and mates with her, she is no longer a virgin and stained for life.
In India, they are taking Starbucks breaks from all that AOL outsourcing work and I hear them talking between themselves about Michael Jackson. There ain't no virgins there. Might want to try Chautauqua, NY, a small "resort" town in upstate NY with a fence around it. You will find one virgin there, pushing 70 and does the bookings for the seasonal amphtheater recitals.
First of all, no, I'm not looking for a virgin. That's not me. That's what my genes might try to make me into. I'm telling you why underage women would be so attractive to men. Men don't have to know why they find underage girls attractive for their attraction serve a genetic purpose, (confidence of paternity, getting there first) anymore than a female bird has to know why she finds males with colorful plummage more attractive (there is a genetic reason that, too.)
Most men will tend to hedge their bets about reproduction, or as it ends up, about sex. That fact is reflected in married men seeing providers. However, if the man is reaching the end of his reproductive life, afterwhich any activities that contribute to his genetic success are going to be in the providing of resources for offspring, then he tends to get driven by emotions that lead him to favor younger women, those less likely to have had sex.
As for your "non-erotic review," there's already a version of it: the fundamentalist churches. TER doesn't need to do that.
You are right that times are a changing. The protection of virginity is no longer socially supported, at least in this nation. The problem with all these emotions genetically programmed into us is that they are responding to yesterday's environment. The environment changes, and they no longer make sense.
Nevertheless, men don't even have to be staggeringly successful at being attracted to virgins for it have become a tendency in our gene pool. They just have to be more successful than the others.
/Zin
I gotta tell ya, you seem to have zero understanding or appreciation for anything remotely scientific. That's what this evolutionary psychology stuff is - it's science.
-- Modified on 4/27/2004 9:58:07 PM
It's not so much that men are programmed to prefer women that haven't mated before or appear virginal - quite the contrary, probably
. Even if that were true, how could any man know for sure, even when he'd reached the gates of Vienna, so to speak*g*. But the male brain (wherever that may be!) will scan a woman's appearance for suitability for sex (attractiveness) and there are inherent codes in place as far as selection is concerned - narrow waist, shapely breasts, youthful skin etc etc. They're basically telling him that she isn't pregnant but of optimum pregnable age.
Looking for virtuous or virginal wives is a different issue, initially bound up in the laws of property and inheritance, and then in religious teaching. It's true that men sought such wives, not so much because they desired them of themselves, but because they could be certain of blood lineage, that their property and wealth would stay in the family, and it generated stability. Then they looked elsewhere for pleasure. Plus ca change, perhaps??
Can you spot the underage girls?
http://www2.b3ta.com/jailbaitorlegal
-- Modified on 4/24/2004 11:21:13 PM
Now i realize yet another reason why i'm so into older women. With a score like i just got on that quiz i'd be spending the next 25 to life in the slam!
1. Men are used to upgrading everything in their lives better house bigger car more expensive suits so why not a younger woman to replace the older model?
2. Older men have generally achieved their life goals such as go to college, get married, have a family so by the time they reach 45 to 50 they are looking for a way to recapture their youth. A younger woman is much like a Porsche in terms of a mid life crisis.
3. Because a younger woman is less likely to remind them of their ex wives.
He supposedly said that when women turn 40 they should be considered like currency and be exchangable for two 20's.
RE: #2: I told a co-worker not too long ago that I thought I was approaching a mid-life crisis. He said that either means a Porsche or a mistress and suggested I pick the Porsche.
It helped a lot that several of the jailbait girls were easily recognizable.
But it takes only one miscalculation to send me up the river for a while.
Practically all of them looked like jailbait to me. I did a lot of guessing.
I've really noticed that my perspective has changed since my days in college 20 years ago. When I was 18-19 years old, I would look at the females walking around campus and not see them as "girls", although I would often call them "girls" in conversations. I didn't necessarily see them as "women" either, even though they were young women. Since they were basically my age, they didn't look young to me; instead, they looked "older" in my eyes than they really were. Today, when I see young women (late teens/early 20's), they look like "girls" from my perspective; they look "younger" to me than they really are, almost to the point of jailbait.
I'm sure this is fairly common as everyone ages, but I've really noticed it the last 2-3 years.
KCSHYGUY
this one applies to everyone.
to the user that said men age more gracefully than women...I'd have to totally disagree. Ment don't take as good care of themselves as women do in general. I find it rare that a man over 35 doesn't at least look his age. Many times they look even older. I like men young or old, but I'm definitely more attracted to men under 40....what's good for the goose, etc.... Octavia.
know the pleasure of being with an older woman. Life is an experience, try everything.
Hugs,
Ciara
are at least in their 40's, preferrably late 40's to early 50's. Younger then that does nothing for me.
But thats just me.
My $.02
-- Modified on 4/25/2004 4:15:54 PM
Being with someone younger of either sex allows you to re-experience life through fresh usually less jaded eyes.
and very glass half full. Bravo...Conchis would be proud of you.
I've seen many young women, especially in this business, that are already jaded (especially those who have not worked much before getting into this business). And, of course, there are always older women who feel jaded too. I think it depends on the attitude of the person not so much the age. After all, honey, if we never had any bad experiences in life, then how are we to realize the really good things that come along and appreciate them more.
Hugs,
Ciara
The younger and prettier the eye candy on a mans arm, the better they think they look to the other men in their peer group. Everyone like a bright shinny new car to drive around in, or a long legged pony to show off. There is no different. How can you tell the men from the boys, but the price tag of their toys. And as a man gets older and hits mid life crises, its a way for him to desperately clinging to his youth
when to open their mouths and when to keep them shut.
Talking is not a reason to open them.
I have thought about who I am attracted to and why - I think it's in the ability of the woman to project a mixture of innocence juxtaposed with confidence and grace. Young women have not had life and time to beat them down - and of course, the are plenty for whom the light in their eyes has already died. I frankly think the most beautiful women are those who age with elegance - and they are rare. Life and the inner demons smack a lot of us down over time.
I guess I'm a lot more open minded than some women but hell, aspire to the best. Accept nothing less.
90% of the men who approach me in daily life are well under my age. Besides some physical chemistry, we really don't have that much in common.
If a men can get a young, hot, emotionally mature, smart babe, then by all means, go get her. Take full advantage and use every young inch of her hot young tight body whether she knows, cares or not.
I have a male friend who does not hobby but knows that I do. I know him from outside the "biz". He is 47, good looking, nice guy, successful, unmarried to this day. Dates a lot and dates very young women 18-23. 24 is over the hill. He says he likes them because they aren't pissed off at life and jaded. He says older women have so many issues and man hating crap, that he prefers to get 'em fresh. And considering his history with women his own age, I don't blame him. He tells me all women over 35 in Chicago are evil. Since I've never been to Chicago, I have nothing to go on but Oprah on the cover of O every damn month. But he's dealing with big city materalistic, power hunger women over 35 who kick him for not making over 80grand, not back ass working class stiffs who appreciate him for who is he as a person.
I think men like younger women for a few reasons...
1. Some are trophy hunters out to impress other men and seeking a young body to gaze at.
2. Others don't want the baggage older women carry.
3. Some feel young again when they are with young women. They can pretend they are a peer and they might well be, at heart.
4. Younger women might be very active and spry and some men like a lot of activity. Some older women are sedentary. ("I want to be sedated.", Clash score for your amusement).
In the end, if you can't carry on a conversation with them, you're going to walk. It doesn't matter how old they are. For a long term relationship, we all need a mental, physical and emotional connection.
And the young hottie is going to age. So keep that in mind.
But double standards aside, women do the same thing. 50% of hot young escorts and porn stars have musician, motorcycle or bad boy boyfriends. Sure, they got older dudes shelling out the cash to support 'em. But they are going home to to a thug with a 10 inch dick, a five o'clock shadow and a brain the size of Quincy, Illinois. Technically, you (hobbyist) might even be supporting him too but you'll never know it 'cause she ain't gonna tell you.
Older women are less likely to pair up with thugs in a personal relationship but if she's mentally exhausted, she might have a ftoy of her own to bide the time until she meets a package man.
Men in their late 40's and 50's are better in bed, very nice and they read fiction. But they may want to ski, tour wineries and jet off to Hawaii at a moment's notice. They also suck at returning calls. Afterall, business is always more important. Ug.
The best advice I can give to a man is to buy a motorcycle and start looking and acting dangerous. We all want you to be nice, caring, giving, loving and sweet but if you are too nice, we're gone (like the wind....to be free again...and i've got such a long way to go...such a long way...to make it to the border of mexico...so I'll run...like the wind...run like the wind....
Money does not buy adventure, passion and mystery. Men love that stuff too. Let's face it, the paddleboat at Laughlin is zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. If all else fails, wear dark glasses but take them off when you are about to get all mushy. LOOK ME IN THEY EYE WHEN YOU ARE TALKING TO ME F'R!!!!!!
hb;
You had me until the 3rd from the last paragraph.
1st - family
2nd - friends, and I include you and my TER contacts here
a distant 3rd - business. I work to live, not live to work.
I make it a point to always return calls promply.
I hope that I was never so rude as to not return calls.
Just poking fun, but,I can only speak for myself when I say that I hope most "gentlemen" are not so entrenched with business that they forget the social graces.
You are ladies, and deserve to be treated as such.
Just my opinion...
B
So Heather...What are you doing for dinner tommorow night?
You took my take and now its taken...lol
I must say you do have a way with words,my dear.
Cheers!
OK, VR this is freakin' spooky- -
Are we the same person? Just you with more money?
It frightens me.
Sully
Lost his soul?
a very well respected provider here in Atlanta.I didn't answere right away but took some time to actually think about it. I considered just spouting out some glibb one liner like "Because he can" until I actually analized my true reasons. I have ran a few personal adds and dated ladies I met through them.After 45 the ratio of available men to women dramaticly shifts to favor the men. By 50 there are almost 6 women to every available man.So if you make it that far and are still in decent shape and health you would think that there would be no need to hobby at all.I mean that I have dated women in there 30's , 40's and 50's who were great lovers. Unfortunately most of them become interested in monotany, opps, I mean monogamy and after 20 years with one woman that just isn't what I look for. So to answere the question from My personal prespective I admit that the number one reason I choose young providers is because on the personal sites it's hard for a 54yo man to get the response I'm for from a 20 something lady. Or to put it a bit blunt, I can get sex from a lady in her 30's or 40's without the donation often enough to save the paid dates for the young ones. Just so you dont get the idea that I'm totally shallow I do have the best relationships with late 30's women who age gracefully.If I were to look for a lasting exclusive relationship it would be with a lady not more than 20 years younger.That would be 34 and by that age I can basically tell how well they take care of themselves and what kind of outlook on life they have formed. Just my $.04 a little long, sorry
-- Modified on 4/26/2004 7:59:35 AM
... Obviously, this isn't universally true.
When women spend time trying to be attractive, they signal their sexual availability and we men read it. The signals and the behavior have probably some biological origins. If the biology changes, then the drive to give the signals declines.