I must confess that I did not have the time to read all the posts on the really long thread reacting to Gort's theory that civvie dating is cheaper than seeing providers. What I kept asking myself was if he feels this way, why is he on this site? I do not mean this in a perjorative sense, just curiosity. Furthermore, it raises the question, can one date in the civvie world and see providers? Does seeing providers "ruin" one's ability to interact "normally" with the opposite sex?

50 percent of us are married so Gort's theory is dead on arrival for those of us whose marriage is also "dead" in some areas.

And then there are those of us not married but with SO's...
that also like to pay for extra play.

Some notable quotes and considerations come to mind like "it's cheaper to keep her", "variety is the spice of life" "we pay'em to leave" and then of course, the excess "baggage" that come with an affair...
Providers are one of God's great gifts to men!

Then there is this comment that applies to most of us horny folk with SO's that love the ladies...

http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Bungalow/3283/more_sex.wav

Cheers!

I think about that for myself--as a single gal, I try to date once a year or so, all to no avail of course, and I wonder--does my being a provider negatively affect my perspective of civie guys?  

I'm sure it does, to some extent, but you know, I've come to peace with all of that... I guess, because I have a very full life away from providing (friends, family, work, school), and because civie dating can be soooo depressing, I can't help but come back to a part-time job that gives me such satisfaction...  I'm so glad that I can be here for you gentlemen when you need me!  

Hugs,
Savanah

-- Modified on 4/30/2005 2:33:23 PM

...depending on why you're here in the first place.

"...can one date in the civvie world and see providers?"

I hope one can see providers and still date in the "civvie" world, but it has it's ups and downs.

I don't think it ruins anything in the aspect of being able to interact normally with another woman. If anything, it's helped me in that department, if for no other reason then from the standpoint of not having any pressure put on myself by myself about forcing the evening in any one direction. I can just go with the flow and truly enjoy myself and enjoy the girl I'm with just for who she is because I don't NEED to try and get her in the sack. I can always come back here for that.

I've learned alot about both myself and women in general from being here, so I have a better mental base to work with now then I did before. I'm less self-conscious in some aspects now because of my evenings with escorts, which makes it easier to be "me" without them.

Sometimes you only want a "sure thing". And those times, this is the greatest arena to know about. An evening with a beautiful woman and no risk, just reward. What could be better?  

Yeah, sometimes you can get tunnel vision, and that does make it hard. It takes alot of focus to not judge every woman you're gonna have a regular date with against your favorite lady. You cannot walk back in the door at the end of the night and say "Gee, that was nice, but if I had had that same type of evening with XXXXX I would have been knee deep in pussy right now". That isn't fair to either the lady you were out with or the escort you were thinking about.  

Lets face it, from my experience anyway, some of the women I've met here are some of the most intelligent women I've ever encountered overall in my life. While openmindedness (however you spell it) is not a requirement to be here on either side of the fence, most of the ladies I know because of being here are very openminded and understanding. Yeah, yeah, I know.... that's what we pay them to be, right? I don't agree with that premise in alot of ways. You can't be something you aren't, weather you're being paid to or not, but there's one for another time again.

Part of the downside, and where it can get really hard sometimes for the single guys like myself, is in the overall experience a woman who truly loves being an escort can give ya. When you knock on the door and every little detail from the lighting to the attire to the drinks and the conversation has been covered... It's a high unto itself alright. I won't deny it. It makes you lazy in a way because if you're a cynical type like I am you can very easily fall into that "Why should I try when I know all I have to do it send that email and get everything I want all wrapped into one package".

Plus there's that whole thing about being in a monogamous relationship that most of society tends to harp on. I believe in love and devotion, not monogamy. But I'm probably getting really off track with that one and should stop now.

There's more if I sit and think about it for a bit, but I gotta broken toilet that I've been hoping was gonna fix itself for two days now that won't, so I better get off my ass and get something done.....






-- Modified on 4/30/2005 9:08:02 AM

For me I have to say seeing provider's has had a kind of negeative effect on me. Not that I'm beginning to hate women but any kind of feeling's of a woman being special is vanishing quickly. To see so many dynamite, beautiful women daily taking on the team, hundred's of guy's a year for money is pretty disheartening. At first it was great, access to women I rarely see in everyday life, let alone get to meet. Then you start to read all the review's and it sink's in that it's all bullshit. All through my last appointment with this dynamite provider that I had been wanting to see for a year I was constanly thinking, "If I wasn't paying her she  wouldn't be here". Bet you can figure out how well that session went. This beautiful woman was laying in bed with me, naked, and I couldn't get it up. Eventually it somewhat rose to the occation but not like it should have. Am I thinking too much about how I think the women feel? Probably so if all I want to do is fuck like a rabbit. Then again, if there isn't the least bit of feeling's envolved, jacking off get's the same result's and it's a lot cheaper. Being with someone who doesn't want to be with you, you might as well be alone. A positive aspect of it though is when you see some woman struting around acting like she's god's gift to man, you can blow her away as nothing. Before starting to see provider's I'd have probably been inclined to play the game and put her on a pedistal. Now, that I've been with quite a few gorgeous women, it's like, "your a dime a dozen", I can make a phone call and be screwing a woman twice as hot as you in a few hour's if I want. Pure emptyness.

I was going to respond in the original thread but it got so long I will do so here.

My quiry was in no way a dig on providers and the men who see them.  I stated in both my original post and a follow up one that the 'sure thing' aspect of seeing a provider makes the costs involved worth while and that the cost effectiveness of seeing a provider is not the only thing one would consider when seeing one.

I was questioning something that I had heard many times and not found, in my experience, to be true.  The final sentence in my original post said 'explain to me how I'm wrong'.  I put the post out to hear what others felt and was open to hearing differing opinions/reasons.  I saw very few posts to convince me I am wrong.  More often I was just called a cad, a braggart, etc.

The last post I saw in that original thread read 'That statement (seeing providers is cheaper...) is said by losers and escorts'.  I never made such a judgement anywhere in my posts but one would think I had by some of the responses I got.

Anyway I am now putting this to rest.  I will not rock the boat anymore.

Oh, and to answer this posters question about whether it is possible to see providers and date civies, the answer is yes.

-- Modified on 4/30/2005 10:46:04 AM

Reflecting all my opinions on this matter and Gort's discussion in chat.  My opinion on Gort or his statements has not changed one bit.

I also don't think this topic is worth yet another discussion.

-- Modified on 4/30/2005 1:50:22 PM

I didn't think you were being either a braggart or a cad in the way you expressed yourself in any of your posts.  I very much enjoyed that you raised the subject in the manner in which you did, and provoked so many responses, although it can't have been comfortable to be on the receiving end of them.

To quote Oscar Wilde (and no, I'm not as old as him either)

"A little sincerity is a dangerous thing, and a great deal of it is absolutely fatal."

combined with:

"Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much."



Aphra

I don't know what effect seeing providers has on my other relationships, but I can say that it is a hell of alot cheaper than my situation with both a wife and a mistress.  My experience is that each of them is a hell of a lot more money than dealing with providers

Can I truly enjoy the company of someone who's paid to be with me?  I think of movie or music stars with hangers on--how many of those people would spend time with them if they weren't in movies or music videos and awash in bling?  At some point, you either need to just let go of this question or leave the hobby, at least that's my 2 cents.  And VR has a point for those of us with SOs--we have a whole different set of baggage to deal with and I for one reconcile my conflicting feelings with a simple refrain--if I was getting it at home, I wouldn't be here.

Thank you.  I've also learned that 'no good deed goes unpunished'--but that' a whole different story.

Even the movie and music star's get tired and fed up with the hanger's on. Hell look at most of the male porn star's, they've had so much prime pussy it's old hat to them, they have to be fluffed and fluffed to get them ready to work. You are right about the let it go or leave part. Personally I've drastically cut down my visit's, being single without a SO I definitely shouldn't be here. However, visiting these discussion board's is addictive as hell and a real kick.

You made your post, and while many either read it wrong or took it personally, there were a few (like myself, or the amazing Aphra...great response on here, BTW, A) that were with you.  The reality is those that make strong statements (whether they are intended to be or not) usually make few friends...but the ones they make are worthwhile.  

You are secure in your knowledge, and that is really all that matters.  It is a good day if you change one person's mind, and on NO day will you change everyone's, but it is a great day when you find people, or even one person, who sees things similarly.  

Peace, bro...and yes, let's all let this thread die, and know that we are all happy being able to be here, whether temporarily (like myself) or permanently.

and not "ruined"... but I would guess that depends on your personality.  Actually I think Gort's theory
is good... he is questioning himself and that can do
nothing but lead to growth, one way or the other.

I have thought in the past about whether it would be an acceptable compromise to get a mistress, but frankly I have not been able to find someone suitable or willing. This could be a whole new thread, but where does one find women to be mistresses? Why is there not an online resource for this purpose like there is for escorts?

Ron Jon, yours is just about the saddest post I have read.  I feel bad for you.  I have been with exactly one provider who made me feel like you describe.... but for the most part, I have been with some providers (most actually) who I just plain like as people - forget the sex.  And, Some that I know who actually like me!  they keep in touch - They share their lives with me - in short they become friends -

Yes, were it not a provider - hobbiest relationship I probably would not have met them - but I did, we talked and a relationship grew.  How you approach the hobby will determine the outcome - I have NO expectation from the ladies that I see - other than they fulfill my fantasy of being with a nice woman who will have sex with me and be nice to me at the same time...  Treat me with respect and actually talk to me.  The opposite of my marriage...  The one provider who failed to do this - reminded me of my ex.

Now let me briefly tell you that two of my hobbying encounters were incredible - they are in my reviews and they each received a 10.  10's I reserve for how I feel in my head after I leave the room...  

Can I date civvies in a normal manner!?  you bet.  And I dare say that I am much better in the "lets do it" category than I would have been after my divorce - because I know I can function in that department - (my ex made me feel inadequate in EVERY department).

Do I want providers to be attracted to me  - and quit and be with me only?! There is one that there is nothing that would please me more - however, I know that she has very different goals and aspirations - I would only slow her down!  So I wish her the best and much happiness....

I would ask the following, what is it that you do that makes you think that the providers that you see do not like you?! I know several providers that have commented to me that there are people that they do not wish to see, but it is a job on those occasions.  I have also had  providers know that it is me- and then they not book anyone after me!  so, you need to think about this - it probably carries over into your civvie life as well... Believe me - It is not just about sex... but about the organ between your ears.  just my $0.02

To Gort,
While you and I differ on many of the positions that you take, you raise a great point - that the posts were so many and so stongly worded demonstrates that this is an issue most of us constantly question!  great question and post!

If your goal is to just score, then scoring with providers, or lots of other unpaid women, will destroy your soul. You will perceive them for sexual gratification only. Think about how you will feel if you were good at picking up hot loose babes at bars and scoring with them. Now think about how you will feel after your 20th babe. Not much different than where you are now. If you want to develop a relationship with women, visiting providers doesn’t help, unless you try and are really lucky. It is true that if you were not paying her, she wouldn’t be there. Would your date be there if you were not buying dinner? At your job, do you get paid for doing something you enjoy? How you get there is not as important as what you make of the opportunity.

Just because you are paying her doesn’t mean she is not having a good time, or that you should not care how you treat her. I have to like the girl for it to more than just “jacking off”. When the girl and I hit it off, it is magical. I admit, it takes a lot of mental effort to filter through what is “just a line”, and what is real. When it is posted in a few days, read my review on Carmina of Lipstick in Chicago. There are times you can more easily tell what is real, especially when she is off the clock. It is possible to have more than just a business relationship with a working girl. Sex alone is not special. Sex with a connection is special. How do you interpret putting on a non-lubricated condom and not needing lubrication to enter her? No matter how much you pay her, she isn’t going to get turned on if she doesn’t like you. Does it really matter if you are paying her if you both are truly enjoying yourselves?

I’m one of the 50% of married guys who do not get fireworks at home. I would much rather get it from my wife. Sex in a relationship is totally different. Making friends with a Lady brings it closer to that experience. When you find that special escort where you can make a connection, then stick with her. You won’t get that if your goal is to bang a lot of hot babes. Bodies are a dime a dozen, relationships are not. You get what you put into it. Hope for the best, but expect the worst, and savor every moment when you find that special lady.

I have to tell you the saddest thing I see is all these married or attached guy's here screwing around on their SO's. Unless your SO's are aware of what you're doing, and doesn't care, doesn't sound like much of a relationship, it sure doesn't say much about your concern for their feeling's, to each his own though. As for the comment of her not wanting to be there, I was reffering to the work in general, not with me. She was very willing to participate, wether she really wanted to or not. Actually she said she hoped I'd visit her the next time she came to town. Not that that's saying much, she more than likely tell's all the guy's that. Same old song and dance. Sure you'll hear all the provider's here telling you how they just love screwing pretty much every guy they see, but give me a break. A few might actually but I'd bet a large majority don't, like said many time's, it's just a job. Sex is all about what's going on between your ear's! If you're bummed and depressed it ain't going to be good if it happen's at all. If your floating in the cloud's with the rose colored glasses on it'll probably be great. I do apologize for veering away from the original post to vent a little.

Geez, there is a whole world out there!  Where would one meet a mistress?  The same places one would have met their wives or SO's or the woman I met, away from the keyboard!  A site like this should be an embellishment to one's social life, not their ENTIRE social life.  Next time you see a woman who intrigues you go up and talk to her, you may be surprised by the response you get.  Despite the responses from my earlier thread I have found that not all civie woman are jealous, golddigging, demanding, emotional stalkers, who will suck the life out of you and force you to only see providers.  Trust me, there are truly great women who can be met offline.

When he was asked at the height of his career just what the secret to his success was he replied 'I don't know the secret to success, but do I know the secret to failure and that is to try and please everyone'.

Like I stated in my last follow up post, I went off course, sorry. You bring up some good point's, some eh. If you've met a woman who see's you off the clock, no charge, you've got more than a provider-client relationship. To find a woman in this business that you click with so well is the last thing I want. I did that once, no charge weekend get away, staying at her house, unfortunately it didn't go anywhere and turned out to be bullshit. I fell for her hard, something I said to myself that I wouldn't do. She made me feel like I hadn't felt in a long time but unfortunately there were other motive's involved. Since her there have been a few other's that I "clicked" with but I doubt if I see any of them again. I sure as hell don't want to get too attached to a provider again. Blah, blah, blah, I need to shut up, I'm beginning to make myself sick with this. Life has it's peak's and valley's, I've been at the bottom of a valley lately and just needed to vent a little. As for the initial post, if I'm in a realationship I'm not going to be here hobbying. There shouldn't be any reason for doing so. As for dating, kind of the same thing unless your just talking about various casual dinner date's and such, then what does it matter if you're hoobying or not, there's no attachment involved.

Agreed. And it reminds me of a novel in which the difference among a mistress, a concubine, and a wife was explained very simple:

A mistress is unsure of her wage, a wife has none; and they are both amateurs.