I have a question....
I recently started as a provider this last week. However I must not be a very good one when it comes to terms of business or what not. I thought I was but I also thought it was common sense for my hobbyists or the few I do have because I tend to not have that many clients being that I just started and this is a "second job".
Honest opinion on the following scenario
One of my clients paid x amount of money to spend some time with me the other night. He came back tonight and wasn't offering to leave anything so I asked him after what he brought for me. He replied "oh you want some money" and gave me half of what I got last time but for about half of last time spent. However it seemed as if he thought when I said "I miss you and would like to see you again" I meant it as an actual girlfriend.
I don't think he is a regular hobbyist and I am wondering where I went wrong. The way I see it if I hadn't of asked I wouldn't have gotten anything and furthermore it kind of pisses me off him thinking it was for free or out of the goodness of my heart.
What did I do wrong and how do I get the point across next time. I should mention I even had asked him before he came over "how long did you want to spend with me and what is my present". He replied with some comment and stated just kidding.
Did I do nothing wrong or should I have announced ahead of time just as I did the first time and gotten it out of the way? I mean I know I do a good job of making him feel wanted and like he is not paying me for spending time, but I think he thought he could manipulate me.
Thoughts or opinions?
It sounds like he was just trying to take advantage of you and hope you wouldn't ask about the $.
My suggestion would be to refuse to see him again. If this is your second job, you are probably low volume, and you can be choosy about who you see. At the very least, if you do decide to see this guy again, make it very clear that you expect your usual rate, up front, before any fun begins.
If he is looking for sex outta the goodness of the heart, I would suggest he sit next to occupied stalls inbetween connecting flights or visit the local parish wearing knickers and a beanie and ask for a farsighted priest. It may only be a urban myth, but if you connect with a priest under the stall divider, the pearly gates open up and beam you up to heaven instantly. That's most mighty goodness!
. . .just for this message.
You should always be clear upfront about time and money.
When making the appointment, be clear about how much time he wants to spend with you.
When he arrives, and he hasn't already put an envelope down in plain sight, say something like: "Let's get the buisness out of the way, OK?"
If he looks befuddled, then you should just say, I guess we won't be seeing each other then, and open the door and hope he leaves. Don't ever, ever see him again.
Some guys might get a bit confused if the provider lays in on a bit too thick in the "Oh, you are so wonderful." department. (See threads below.) If you start out with a strictly business demeanor and then go into GFE mode afterwards, hopefully he'll get the hint. If not, then it's "goodbye Charlie".
lilsecret-
I'm just getting started too and while I have not actually had any dates as of yet, I have been glued to my chair answering emails and what not. It seems those types are out there that want a break and as a strong, confident businesswoman it's your responsibility to be firm with your rules. Manipulators are out there! I haven't met any (yet) because I have simply denied their requests and refused to see them. I have a site, everything is pretty much spelled out there (rates, services, verification) and if a client doesn't like it, then they are free to move on! Be true to yourself and if you feel you are being taken advantage of, it's time to cut those ties!
way in a short time with "hobby sense." You are obviously a quick learner. Hope you enjoy the hobby.
Thanks! I just don't see the need for any woman to be treated any differently within the hobby as they would want to be in civvie life. As far as I'm concerned, it all carries across - so stand up ladies! It's just not worth the aggravation to get taken for a ride by any man!
XOXO,
Stella - who just dumped her civvie BF BTW ;oP
Why did you dump him? Was he an asshole? Or was he just not satisfying your lusty, womanly urges? Why make one man miserable when you can make us all so happy, right? LOL
Exactly Aug5! LOL
Well, after the 'honeymoon' was over, his true colors started showing and he was panning out to be a disrespectful, demanding, nefarious a**hole. Been there, done that. I deserve to be appreciated, NOT ridiculed! Besides...he thought he was way better in the sack than he actually was. Always mish, an occasional doggie...~YAWN!~
XOXO,
Stella
First of all, you got fucked by a poor client, both literally and figuratively. All providers and hobbyists get screwed by each other at some points. Don't let it get you down, you'll be fine.
Your problem is that you are new to the game and obviously do not yet know how to handle yourself in a business situation. If there is ONE person on this board who treats this hobby for what it is, PURE BUSINESS, its Hardy
Now, the first problem I see is the lines of comunication are way off. You cant tell a hobbyist after one fucking visit that you "miss him"...it sounds pathetic and whiny. Wait until you have established some sort of provider/client a relationship (multiple visits) before making such remarks. Most seasoned hobbyists will treat your statements is that you miss the money, but perhaps your loser of a client really thought you liked him.
More importantly, you never set any ground rules. When he left you X amount of money the first time was that by his own doing or had you smartly told him what the fee was?? If you did tell him, good for you. But based on your inexperience, I am willing to bet he just left the money without any guidance from you. If this is the case, how is he suppose to know if this is the right amount to leave everytime? Maybe on the second visit he felt he left too much the first time and wanted to leave 1/2 the amount. Clients are not mind readers. You need to tell him up front what your hourly rate is. There should be no guessing as to the appropriate amount.
Again, when you had him on the phone you asked him "How long do you want to spend with me" (GOOD QUESTION) but then you followed it up with "What is my present" (LOUSY QUESTION). Don't EVER EVER let a client decide what he is going to pay you. YOU dictate to him what your hourly rate is, not the other way around. The provider should tell the client, UP FRONT, that her hourly rate is $400 (or whatever else you are going to charge)
Finally, for heaven's sake get the money up front. Have your clients walk in, put the envelope on the desk and then proceed with the session. All men after they cum, really are not thinking about paying you money. They got what they came for (pun intended), and are looking to leave quickly. DON'T EVER get into a situation where you have to ask for the money after a session. It's completely wrong; you shouldnt have to worry about it.
If you want to see this client again, then set the rules up front. Tell him what your fee is and get the money up front. If he doesnt want to play by your rules, then DO NOT SEE HIM.
-- Modified on 9/20/2007 6:58:55 AM
-- Modified on 9/20/2007 7:11:57 AM
I Definitely agree with Hardy for once!!
"I miss you" ?????
No Lady! You don't "miss" a client. Especially a first time client. I'm not sure if that was your first mistake but it was definitely one of them.
Instead of asking him, "how much time do you want to spend with me, and what is my present?"
You should have set guidelines already in motion. You say, "I am available to spend 2 hours with you tonight for $350.00"
You set the perameters. Don't leave it up to your clients. That's like owning a shop and telling your customers, "Well, just pay what you think it's worth."
Do you have any girlfriends in the bizz that can guide you a little? Also, post this question in the providers only section and you will get a lot of great advice.
Don't worry, you are new and you'll learn. The main thing is that you have to be set in your mind.. "This is Business"
Hopefully I don't come off as sounding too harsh. Hardy really gave some good advice....
Because odds are you're gonna end up on this review board being described as having an "AVERAGE" appearance no matter how many others find you attractive- Not so good for your business model or your self esteem. You are hot, right? If not, maybe average will work just fine for you. Then go ahead and see him.
And if you do see him, show absolutely no emotions or express anything remotely resembling an attraction or feelings for him(that part shouldn't be too hard) because he hates that.
And finally, under NO CIRCUMSTANCES should you offer to meet him for lunch. Trust me on this. If you do, you will unleash his "inner" Hardy-- This will not be pretty and the rest of us will have to pay here on this board for your transgression.
Best of luck to you and yours...
-- Modified on 9/20/2007 9:34:45 PM
In reality, I think people can learn more about my reviews and comments than the men who only give 9's and 10's (which is ridiculous) because they dont want to offend anyone.
I just call it like it is...
for any provider.
You Have 61 reviews.
For 31 of them your appearance rating is 5 or below-- that's 51% of your reviews.
For 46 of them your appearance rating is 6 or below- that's 75% of your reviews.
You have a long established appearance rating pattern. One could certainly challenge your ascertion of fairness. Or one could conclude you like to pay average looking women for sex. Either way a provider, particularly one with few reviews, would certainly be justified in screening you out on this basis alone.
Sometimes to "call it like it is" is more a reflection of the person doing the calling than on the call itself...
Hardy wrote: "Finally, for heaven's sake get the money up front. Have your clients walk in, put the envelope on the desk and then proceed with the session. All men after they cum, really are not thinking about paying you money. They got what they came for (pun intended), and are looking to leave quickly. DON'T EVER get into a situation where you have to ask for the money after a session. It's completely wrong; you shouldnt have to worry about it."
I can't stress how important this particular piece of advice is. Men do not like to pay after they play! Take their money before their erection disappears, otherwise you may get left holding the bag. It's a classic case of buyer's remorse. Once the hardon goes away, we start thinking clearly again. Yeah, I know, it sounds like a terrible indictment of men, right? Well, actually, no. Men like sex the way women like food. You ladies love to eat, right? Most men do too, but sex is MUCH more important to us than food. Admit it, wouldn't you ladies like to be able to eat a 2,000-calorie meal, enjoy the taste of the food, but not gain an ounce of weight? Well, that's how we feel about sex -- we wish we could have the sex, enjoy the sensations, but not lose a penny in the process. Take my word for it -- get the money up front.
-- Modified on 9/20/2007 6:55:10 AM
From here on out you have to keep that in YOUR mind as well as make sure your clientele know it in THEIR'S.
You will soon discover that different advertising venues bring in totally different client types. If you advertise on something like Craigslist you're sure to get a sizable percentage of clients wanting to negotiate and barter their services or goods for your time. If you advertise on a respected escort mall along with accruing reviews here; your perceived market credibility and worth will dissuade a large number of 'negotiators'.
as a person who hobbied BEFORE I got married over 15 years ago and has hobbied for the past 5 years after my divorce... I'll give a go...
First, it sounds like over the phone when you asked how long and service, he started joking. That was when you should have stated (because you had seen him before - and you know he is not LE!) "NAME, I really need to know the length of time you wish to purchase so that I can set my schedule." Then when he comes to your place of business, state "please place the donation on the table"! If on the phone he cannot provide a straight answer, say to him "I'm sorry, but serious inquiries only" and hang up.
I know that this sounds harsh but I've very good relationships with several providers... ALL know that I will look at their web site and have the proper donation in an envelop when I arrive... now? they don't even ask... and I usually bring up the topic... especially if we are going out to dinner, as I do not wish to be responsible for that much cash... hee hee!
you sound nice, and you sound as if you are trying to provide a true GFE... what this dude did was try to take advantage of you being new and all! hey! happens... but we are not all like that! Good luck.
You REALLY need to wake up and grow up fast and get a quick sense of reality. You entered this business with NO concept of what the heck you were doing. This is a QUICK way to encounter SERIOUS problems (the least of which would be a client who only wanted to pay 1/2 your rate), so I'm about to offer you free advice.
First, figure out why you want to be a provider in the first place. I suspect its monetarily, that your other job doesn’t quite pay the bills. This is a perfectly valid reason to enter the business. You prob. figured, hey, I love to get laid and there are plenty of men who will actually pay to fuck me. What a country! Bravo, good for you. Welcome to the club.
Second Honey (don’t worry, you'll soon be calling all your clients this) you need to do A SHIT LOAD of research. Look at how other providers promote, market, and sell themselves. I have no idea how you are getting clients, but it's time to get serious. FAST. At least you are on TER; a great resource mechanism. The reality is you ARE RUNNING A BUSINESS. Have a fucking clue as to what you are doing and what you want to accomplish (again I assume its pay the monthly bills). You really need to learn how to sell your services, what is the best way to attract professional and safe clients, how best to avoid LE (in layman terms, the police, because in case you did not know, becoming a provider is ILLEGAL), how much to charge clients, etc. As Moorepassion stated above, talk to as many providers in your area and across the country as you can. Most ladies seem willing to help so take advantage of their expertise. Obviously, based on your idiot client you have fucked on two occasions, you selected the wrong type of individual. He is loser who was looking to take advantage of you. DO NOT SEE HIM AGAIN.
I am not sure what you are doing to promote yourself... (I suspect its something like Craig's List) but you need to work on this quickly. If you are SERIOUS about entering this hobby the right way, then I would suggest putting up a simple informational website and post on the regional boards where you live. Again, LOOK at websites of experienced providers so you will know what is appropriate to place on your site. It's all about marketing and selling.
I hope this comes across as TOO HARSH, because I meant it as a real wake up call. You really need to think about what the fuck you are doing. Yeah, it's great to get paid to get laid, but for your security and safety, you need to go about it the right way.
It would be great to assume that all hobbyists are lonely geeks that can't get laid without hiring out for the service. I like to feel that I'm not that, even just for a shred of self-respect. But seriously, there's an element of guy out there that hates women, and wouldn't think twice about hurting one, or WORSE. I personally know of a couple ladies in my town that, in spite of reasonable screening, have had a bad guy sneak past. The details are unimportant, but the message is clear...a provider that hopes for the best, will find her luck run out at some time.
The mistakes made here were pretty basic, and you should do plenty of homework, so you minimize your chances of finding Mr Wrong.
I would like to say I never look at advice when asked for it as it being too harsh. Most of you or the majority have way more experience especially coming from both sides.
I do feel as if I did do a better job as conducting it as a business with our first encounter as he did come right in and hand the envelope over.
I know how corny the "i miss you" sounds however this was after a few emails from him telling me he missed me and blah blah blah. I thought I was doing "my job" lol. I thought I was suppose to make him feel wanted so he would keep coming back. However I agree with many of you and my gut feeling after the tried to get away without compensating me that he was trying to take advantage and basically it seemed like he was blatantly assuming I was stupid. I will not see him again.
Yes I did advertise on craigslist but to the effect of GFE and included no picture.
I do consider myself very intelligent and business minded however this is a new business to me and therefore all help you have given and will continue to give is greatly appreciated.
I do not have friends in the business and if I was to run this by one of my friends they would of course tell me not to do it. I did consider emailing or trying to contact another provider who is knowledgeable but did not know if that would be wrong meaning that it would be a waste of their time.
Once again thank you for your help.
because I do not know this man, but it sounds like he was taking advantage of you. Not is a super bad way, but my guess is this has happened to you in other areas of your life.
Heck he was just sweeping towards himself in this area... Was it right? no, but there will be thousands of people doing the very same thing to you for the rest of your life... if you let them.
Take it as a learning experience. Value yourself by being upfront with your clientele. Say my time is priced at XXXX number of dollars... that's it. If you choose to discount it is on your own accord.
You don't have to be a jerk about it, but how many lawyers or doctors or other professionals shy away from thier fee? It is what it is and until BC/BS starts to pay for our hobby... you can charge what ever you feel you can get and be clear with that choice.
Now I don't know you and I may be very off on this. So try it on? See if this holds true in other areas of your life? Life can be what you make of it...
good luck... and thank you for taking responsibility for your life and asking...