I would say that approximately 25% of my clients (maybe more) inquire about the possibility of not using a condom for intercourse either during that appointment or in the future. Of course the answer is always an enthusiastic no.
The clients that ask are from this board, other boards, whatever, but my point is that it's not just the young guys or the inexperienced guys who ask.
Why? Why would someone do that? I am posting with an alias, feel free to answer with one.
I think this occurs because there are providers out there that allow it. You've heard the expression "Truth is stranger than fiction," well it is and beyond my comprehension. That any provider or hobbyist would engage in this activity is just plain nuts considering the issue of multiple partners alone. Another burning question might be, why do providers "go raw" with their partners, SOs etc. when they are likely doing other things? Makes you go hmmmmm... no?
Every once in a while I get a guy who moans and groans about how he hates condoms but none have ever asked to go without one.
If someone was that careless and didn't want to use one my first thought would be that he already had an STD. I can't believe anyone would be that moronic, male or female, in this day and age.
I don't understand what the incentive is for a woman to not use a condom because it feels the same with or without one. Unless these providers get more money or already have a disease I really don't understand why they would take that kind of risk.
Choose the right condom & it feels the same for the guy too. My regular companion feels like the real thing & we have been using protection for years. I keep going back because she is 100% safe and a dynamite partner.
I have had recent encounters where the lady says it feels better without. It seemed to involve wanting the warmth of skin on skin and the feeling of semen squirting. I don't know of course. Maybe ne of the ladies can explain better.
People take risks because it adds to the "thrill" - and if a lady has good control of her vaginal muscles, a male really won't notice the condom... they will be thinking about something else... What goes through their mind?
"I got away with it without getting an STD - wow, what a rush."
To that I would counter that the rush you get may be the last real rush you get other than the one you get from a lower viral load than you expected while on AZT and other antivirals. Think of the mentality of the people in this hobby, male and female...
We are all on the "edge" of legitimacy. We do this knowing the consequences, but we think that we are above the statistical laws... we ain't.
This illigitimacy adds to the rush. and some of us, have a higher threshold for that rush than others.... so they need the added risk. (For all my right wing friends - perhaps this is another reason to legalize this hobby! lower the risk factor, lower the attraction of this hobby???)
That is the only sane explanation that I can offer. For me, well this green dude keeps the raincoat on. Just too much to live for - cause some superdude has to hang around and help all you earthlings.....
-- Modified on 10/27/2005 9:47:23 AM
-- Modified on 10/27/2005 9:50:46 AM
It is the stupidest thing possible for them to ask in a provider/client relationship, unless they're in love and really wants to share *everything* with you.
I've never felt the risk could be worth asking a lady for this. Ever. However, that being said, I do fantasize about BB all the time. In the fantasies and the reliving of the encounters, the cover comes off. So, although I can look down on these guys and say its stupid, I know I'm just handful of brain cells away from being that stupid.
Let's face it, human beings are like any animal, and underneath our higher functions that try to thwart reproduction, we really have many desires that drive us in that direction. Some of us have a few of them in higher doses. An excessive craving for BB sensation would be one of these.
The ladies have to enforce this on guys and hold the line about this. They live with the risk every day, whereas the guys are mostly just visit it now and then.
Amen brother. I know better, and won't go without. However, there is this one lady... Thankfully, she's smarter than I am, so it won't happen. But if she offered, I'd probably be too far gone to think with the big head.
But it's the 18 years of child support the keeps my hat on Got 2 more years to go and don't want to start over again.
There's a higher of pregnancy.
Yet, I think it has only been in the last 10-15 years that the rubber became standard gear. But that's true of sex in general now due more to STD's than pregnancy.
I wasn't in the hobby in the 70s, but after I got out of high school in that decade, I didn't see a condom till about 1984.
Zinaval,
I'm right there with you Bro'. Yes, the enticement & delight of BB is always enticing me . . . and I do follow up on it, mostly in fantasy, not reality.
I've heard of a couple of providers who will do BBFS. They admit that they are taking the risk, but try to minimize it by 1) getting themselves checked (for HIV and Hepatitis A/B/C) regularly, 2) DO NOT do it except with an established client, 3) and insist that their repective hobbyist show negative tests taken within the past 30 days.
On an aside note, to me going BBFS IS NOT like playing with fire, no, it's more like playing with a live NUCLEAR WARHEAD ! ! I remember in the early 80's when the first reports of Acquired Immune Deficiency Symdrome (AIDS) were surfacing, it took nearly three years before the CDC finally identified it & set out warnings that it was a contagion and sexually transmitted. THREE YEARS of risk befoe it was widely recognized as the danger that it is.
My grandfather (an OB-GYN, now deceased) was also an academician, which meant that he travelled to many countries, developed, developing, and third world, and attended many conferences. I remember him telling me (this is as of the late 70's) they had identified 15 different types of infections that could be sprad by unprotected sex. I'm sure he was telling me this because I was a horny teenager & he worried about me . . . still it was valuable information.
If you look at the TER poll, it shows that over half of us hobbyists have done bbfs. This whole topic drove me insane for awhile, but I've come to understand that you can get pretty much anything in this hobby if you want it. I'm sure your clients who ask for it are going to get it from some provider for any number of reasons.
...When too much blood flows from the brain to our genitals, we stop thinking at normal capacity. The rush of blood to that area makes it feel really good. Often, the brain is only tuned into making it feel even better..i.e. bareback!! Stupid yes! But more accurately: a brain not thinking at normal capacity. I'll bet that most who engage in BBFS, probably worry later on, "why did I do that? Yeah, it felt good, but I wish I'd covered up."
In my race many of the older men don't like the use condoms. My father inlaw was surprised that I have been using condoms all these years for protection. He asked me "How do you maintain a hardon ?". I think the guys who are asking for this have ED. Maybe they should not hobby at. They need to go to GYM, eat right, stop drinking, and smoking, drink water, and get some rest for a hardon. If they can't do that they should not hobby.
Since I do enjoy the hobby, I have to pay attention to protection.
I've learned to enjoy using condoms & lubricants. Yes, you heard me right. Condoms today come in such varieties. They're thinner, sturdier, more sensitive, come with added features . . . well, you get the picture. What I'm trying to say is that using protection today (the right protection) can be just as much fun as going BB with a SO that you've been with a long time.
I just made arrangements for a 2 week cruise. My companion and I will not be using condoms. But we ARE going to be tested at the same time, and refrain from sexual contact with anyone else until after the cruise when we part company.
Comments?
Promiscuous people should assume their partner does not refrain.
But with two different providers It just happened.
I get that it was stupid and I look back and wish it had not happened, but these were veteran, well reviewed ladies. One was a solid denzine of this community.
As always it was my responsibility too.
I would never ask for BB and now i would never let it happen again.
I had a provider who tried to be slick. She was very nice and clean. She would sit on my legs, then one day as she was getting to mount me cowgirl style. I had to remind her to put the rain coat on. She would tell me stories in a previous session on how a guy tried to pull off the rain coat and stick it in. I think she was trying gauge my reaction to get me interested in BBFS.
Bottom line never do BBFS, it is not worth the worry about the risk.
-- Modified on 10/27/2005 2:27:19 PM
Sorry that I usually never post. But after reading your account, I had to write this. An identical thing happened to me recently with a well-reviewed provider. I like her a ton, but it's occuring to me that providers themselves obviously can't be trusted in holding anyone in check. This is not the first time that it happened either and I've only been with 3 providers altogether...
"Turns out people are stupid" says Stanford study.
at least as far as HIV/AIDS is concerned. Other STDs are a different matter (although I think people are less concerned than they are about HIV). Pregnancy is also a different issue.
First, condoms do not make sex safe. They merely make it safer. Best estimates are that condoms are about 85% effective. For links to the evidence see my post http://www.theeroticreview.com/discussion_boards/viewmsg.asp?MessageID=146788&boardID=12&page=36 . Using condoms does not mean you won't get infected with HIV. It just means you can expect to go seven times as long before you become infected.
Second, relatively few of your partners will be HIV positive. Most estimates I have seen indicate that about 1% of the adult population (excluding men who have sex with men and intravenous drug users) is infected. Obviously, you can't get infected from an uninfected partner. Condoms are only an issue if your partner is (or might be) infected.
Third, HIV has extremely low infectivity on average. (It is more highly infectious in a newly infected person and gential sores also greatly increase the infectivity.) Studies of couples where one partner is infected with HIV and the other isn't indicate that if they have sex without using a condom that on average it takes about 15 years for the uninfected partner to become infected. (If they use condoms it takes on average 111 years.)
For the risks of various acts see the link below.
I don't want to imply that I think condoms are unimportant. By reducing the rate of transmission they reduce the fraction of the population that is infected which in turn reduces your chances of having an infected partner which in turn reduces your risk. From the public health standpoint condoms are very important in reducing the spread of all STDs.
-- Modified on 10/27/2005 9:36:37 PM
Recent epidemiological evidence also indicates that male circumcision may further reduce HIV transmission by ~60%. As Mathesar correctly notes, HIV has a low infectivity rate, so this will lower it still further.
Nevertheless, "low" infectivity should not be read as "no" infectivity, and you are much better off using latex condoms.
I went back to my post and added a paragraph on the necessity of using condoms to protect the public health.
I wonder why the emphasis is on male latex condoms. I think polyurethane female condoms are as safe. They also have the reputation of feeling better to the guys. Perhaps the ladies don't like them any better than men like the male condom.
The first serious treatment that I saw of the circumcision/AIDS transmission hypothesis was in a nearly 10-year old Scientific American article, which was a survey done in Africa (always a tough environment to do studies):
RE: Caldwell JC. Caldwell P. The African AIDS Epidemic. Scientific American (March 1996): 62-68.
On the issue of male vs. female latex condoms, I think that most of the transmission data has been on male condoms (as you would expect). I haven't seen anything definitive on the effectiveness of female condoms, but this should be available soon.
The chance of getting by a lightening is lower than the chance of contracting something from going BB. That said, how many of us DO get TESTED regularly?
SOME of us, MAY ALREADY have SOMETHING we thought otherwise.
WHEN it IS positive, HOW do YOU break the NEWS?
How big was the focus group of the study? and did they knowingly have BBFS with people with HIV? The risk is there, however small, otherwise, why wear safety belts / helmets ? On the off chance of the "WHAT IF...." occurs
Hind sight IS ALWAYS 20 / 20.
In Los Angeles a good place to get tested is AIM. (I go there.) See link.
Yes, they test civilians. (They regard anyone outside the porn industry to be a civilian.)
I've seen this subject come up over and over again.....I never get this request.....Honestly, maybe twice in my career (and, that's a big maybe).
Is it just me or what??
X's Summer
....no one is thinking about anything else. It is a compliment! My favorite lady & I have been using full protection for years. She doesn't even kiss but she is the hottest woman on earth. I would wear saran wrap to be with her. Now that takes an erotic artist!
I have been told by two different providers in the last year that if I brought complete medical tests for STD's and AIDS that were dated a day or two before our next appointment they would go bareback. The funny thing is I never asked about it either time and would never even consider going bareback. go figure.
It is because the little head takes over & the big head stops thinking. However it is not just the guys.
In the last year I have had two ladies request BBFS because "it feels better". I declined of couse. A third didn't even ask, started to insert me & I had to request a cover. These were all well reviewed popular providers.
I also fault the rating system. I have had dynamite dates which were fully protected & only qualified for a 7. I have had others which were not as erotic but rated a 9 because of unprotected services (kiss with tongue, BBBJ, DATY, trip round the world).
I've been asked quite a few times -- without even asking me how often I test, if I am healthy, whether or not I am on birth control, my practices, nothing. It's always shocking.
Perhaps it has something to do with the way a provider looks (or a client, if the provider is offering). If you seem clean and well taken care of, are educated or maybe if you have a certain youthfullness or innocense about you, they might be thinking 'perception is reality'.
Best,
Kate
To try BB these days you have to be crazy. And I'm surprised the younger guys even bring it up. I'm nearly 60; back in the late 60s & early 70s, the risk was much lower, and BB was no big deal, with the pill or diaphragm. I get nostalgic about it (it did feel better), but wouldn't dream of trying it today. These days, I even worry some about BB DATY--not enough to stop b/c the risk is fairly low, but I think about it.
Could it be that those who seem uncernerned about contracting STD's are so because they already have them? Everyone knows the risks involved with unprotected sex. Those willing to do so fall into two catagories: gamblers who believe it won't happen to them, and those who already have one or more STD's and just don't give a damn anymore.
You can get the test the same day, no prob, the next day, no prob, and on and on and on. AIDS can lie dormant AND have no outwardly any sign of a virus. Which is why the some Docs said it'd be best to test for it six months afterwards to see if it manifests itself. Blood sampling may or may not detect the virus, if it is ONLY one single virus in your right toe, but the blood was drawn from your arm, what are the chances of it showing up?
Be Smart use a Cover.
A message brought to you by ( ... Insert name here.... )
***Did not meant to scare anyone, but if it is not a fact, let me know and I will edit my posting. ***