Obviously, I can't speak for her (I caught your edit), but maybe it’s more about discretion than commitment. Or consideration. Any of the ladies I, um, progressed with knew I was still screwing half the Western world unless I told them otherwise. And if I’d asked any of the ladies for a reference, I think one or two might have been like, “Ooo, tell me about her,” but I think the more common reaction would have been “Are you serious.”
It can be like asking a lady you’re dating casually, or just sleeping with, to help you pick up a cute girl you see on the subway all the time. It’s casual, so Subway Girl’s obviously not off limits, but maybe you should talk to somebody else about how to approach herwould you use your ATF who gives you extra loving and care and OTC time as a reference to see another provider in the same city that you don't visit that often??or do you think it makes more sense to use some other providers who had cold-cut business transaction and nothing more?
is there anything sacred in this business? are there ANY unspoken rules? or everything is up for sale?the only thing matters is $ for providers? and fresh meat for mongers?
help me understand
am i too naive? too i need become all business and always keep on reminding myself that i am only interesting while i am fresh meat and i need to milk the moment ?
Of course it's about the fresh meat for him, and it should be just about the money for you. All of that extra otc time and tlc is time you could be spending figuring how to attract clients that don't need all of that to see you consistently and to pay you well.
These guys want to sleep with lots of random women, that's why they're here. Being his 'ATF' only benefits one of you two, and that person isn't you. Give the refrence, be a professional, and treat him like a client. He's a client, that's it, and there's nothing wrongn with that.
point taken
i will try my best
i will have my guard up from now on as much as i can
These guys want to sleep with lots of random women, that's why they're here. Being his 'ATF' only benefits one of you two, and that person isn't you. Give the refrence, be a professional, and treat him like a client. He's a client, that's it, and there's nothing wrongn with that.
If you want to treat him royally and give him OTC, what the fuck is wrong with that? He might absolutely adore you and believe you are the best playtime he is ever going to get but since you see multiple guys per week what's wrong with him seeing others and using you as a reference. Particularly, since he knows you will give him an A+. Don't listen to Humpty-Dumpty and others who tell everyone how to act and feel.
giving advice ... not that I disagree, but I actually do
... but that's what this board is all about. Equal time.
These guys want to sleep with lots of random women, that's why they're here. Being his 'ATF' only benefits one of you two, and that person isn't you. Give the refrence, be a professional, and treat him like a client. He's a client, that's it, and there's nothing wrongn with that.
-- Modified on 2/11/2016 2:52:32 PM
She could benefit if she isn't giving him OTC. Sometimes we are someone's "ATF" because we're giving them free time.
Now, if we are indeed a true ATF, (or something of similar definition) and they are paying us for our time, continually booking appointments, paying for the time, being a regular, whatever.. Girls do benefit if they're not giving their hearts away to a non-paying client. But a mind-blowing love affair, plus getting paid for it? Give someadat to me!! lol! Even if for a short while. Every date, as they walk out, or I do, it could be our last appointment. Gotta' remember that. But enjoy it while it lasts. 
If they are putting their money where their mouth is, we are most definitely benefiting from their feelings of ATF-ness, so long as ATF isn't "code" for OTC. Many of the guys I'd met back in the early days, bragging about their ATF's, were also bragging about OTC from my experience.
I definitely do not knock that human beings can have real feelings around here. But as far as I'm concerned, you want to schmooze me into thinking I'm your "one and only" put your money where your mouth is, book me, pay me, and if you want to see me more, pay me more. Most of the times when I knew for certain a guy was saying "Oh, I think you're the best", when I asked for a time extension envelope, all of a sudden I was the "most horrible, ugly person in the world" LOL. (I'm talking about the ATF guys who ask for OTC, or nudge / hint it.) know how i know? I have many stories from my first 1.5 years.
"Oh, you're so special. My best girl ever! Those mischievous eyes. That rich, wise heart." Ok, well an overnight is 3500. "Oh. Er um. Don't you like me Courtney?"
Next day - there's hate mail in my inbox from them and their "other ATF's" lmfao! "How dare you treat my ATF like that!" Lawd have mercy
-- Modified on 2/11/2016 11:57:42 PM
Would you want your favorite client to recommend you to other potential clients via the back channel?
I do it all the time for my ATF
In fact, I would wager that I have probably brought her roughly five new clients over the past 2 years, simply by recommending her to others who either directly inquired after reading one of my reviews of her ... or whom I went out of my way to recommend to guys that I have gotten to know on the boards.
It is for this reason that I EXPECT her to return the courtesy. She has made thousands of dollars from me in referral business -- with very nice and respectful guys I might add. I wouldn't recommend her to someone who came across as flaky or douchy, or who had a history of giving scathing reviews to other providers they've seen.
THIS is the "unwritten understanding" that my ATF and I have.
octavia you know i luvs you darlin, but atf only means the chemistry between you 2 is extra extra special and hot, it doesn't mean monogamy.
guys aren't in the hobby for monogamy. and girls aren't either.
i refer my ter buds to my atfs all the time. i'm secretly hoping that the next time i see my atf, she'll remember i threw a few thousand bucks worth of work her way and give me an extra special bbbj. i do it because i genuinely like the ladies i consider my atfs, and i hope the best for them and their business.
none of my atfs have a problem giving me other ladies a good reference about me. cuz i'm a good client.
unless your business is hurting and you don't want a guy spending his $$$ on someone else rather than you, it's not a competition. and if your business is hurting that badly you should take stock of all your business practices and see what's going wrong.
i know it's hard because we are imitating emotional intimacy here, but it's important for both sides of the bed to keep true deep emotions out of the equation. that way only heartache lies.
if you are truly his atf he'll come back to you sooner or later for another session. i've seen one of my atfs for over 4 years now, but only 2 or 3 times a year. but each time we meet it's like we are both in love again. that's the perfect situation imo.
Octavia,
I've had great clients come and go. I've lost a SD or two due to marital problems and/or health issues. Of course, I'm pretty sure that the same gentlemen who have supported me have lost their share and/or cut ties with their ATF's and SB's.
Alas, I'm not married to them and we are not in a relationship. Even though we had wonderful times together, at the end of the day, it was business. Good business at that. Although, it's a bit disheartening to lose clients, and even more disheartening for clients to see another providers. However, don't take it too personal. No one belongs to anyone.
I always say a prayer for the wonderful clients that I have at the moment. I am thankful for them, and I just continue to do the best that I can do for them. At the same time, I am always looking into the future, because I realize that I may never see them again.
Sweetest Regards,
Adrienn
are you really disheartened when your clients see other providers? gosh i don't know what to say to make that any easier for you. i can't let myself get all bent out of shape by thinking about my favorite ladies bumping uglies with some of the guys on ter i know, cuz those guys are just old and ugly, lol, just like me!
so i turn my mind off and simply pretend for an hour and a half that this girl is totally into me and i'm into her, and we have a great time.
i would think one would have to have a more liberated view of human sexuality to survive in this endeavor. jealousy and ownership would be such an overall soul buzzkill.
Tons of reviews say, "She looked so hot, but she wasn't into it." And if you want a transparent time with a woman who is truly into you, you have to take the "good" with the "bummers".
I was just telling a friend, that if you want to feel euphoria, you have to feel pain. You can't have euphoria if you don't open yourself up to feel it. But if you do open up yourself to feel it, you also open up yourself to other natural feelings.
I've been in situations where I worked for a higher up. The people coming and going came through me before they got to the higher up. Some of them were complete assholes. It disheartened me that they would treat me like an asshole, but then again, I was professional about it. But it didn't feel good.
In order to have what you want, someone who doesn't feel any pain or a little pinch when a guy moves on, you need someone who doesn't feel the heat while they're with you.
I'm sad all the time when a client I really connect with moves on. In fact, I had three move on since July, and I had little crushes on them. Do I cry myself to sleep? Nope. Would I happily refer them? Yup. Am I a little bummed? Yup. Those were some fun times. Why were they fun times? Because I had feelings.
One I actually had to move on, at least for a while, because he had a stalker who started stalking me. I was really bummed, because she was harassing other providers who whitelisted him. That was pretty fucked up. And scary. And desperate. And annoying.
But would I see them again if they came back to me? Hell yeah I would. Happily, and we'd have a lot of heated fun. BUT - they also didn't ask, nor did I ever give, any OTC to them. And they were tippers too lol.
-- Modified on 2/11/2016 8:23:19 PM
well, cuz for one thing i don't think she was talking about me, so i can't take it as a compliment.
but seriously, i guess it's just a matter of degree. if a lady gets too bent out of shape when someone she likes stops seeing her, she might want to reconsider her life choices.
but if it's a matter of momentary melancholy, and the lady realizes it's part of the landscape and goes with the job, then who am i to say what a person should or should not feel?
in reverse, there was one woman i saw only once a couple years ago. we had such immense electricity, she brought out a sexual performance from me that i never thought possible, and she was a great, fun, witty and intelligent companion for a couple of hours. unfortunately for me i couldn't see her the next time she came to town, and then soon after that she met someone and fell in love (and out of the hobby).
do i look back on that afternoon with great fondness? do i wish her the best of all possible lives, and kind of envy the guy that landed her? do i wish she'd come back? do i have her pictures on a zip drive and i look at now and then to remember what a great time we had? yes, yes yes and yes.
but it didn't stop me from going on to find other fine ladies to play with.
i guess i may have misconstrued the intensity of feelings. i'm hoping you ladies don't let the temporary nature of this endeavor incapacitate you in any way, emotionally or other wise. because as i tell my fellow mongers, dont' fall in love with your provider, that way only heart break lies.
but seriously, i guess it's just a matter of degree. if a lady gets too bent out of shape when someone she likes stops seeing her, she might want to reconsider her life choices.
....and I am one of them.
Many of us have careers that require us to be cognizant of our working issues long after we leave the building. Yes it is very stressful at times but also necessary. Would I ever consider quitting? Never. What I do is too important to too many people, and I decided long ago that the stress of after hours carry-over far outweigh the need of my services
But I would agree that perhaps in this business it is not only unnecessary, but potentially very detrimental to a provider's mental health
Point being, if that's some dude's answer to a girl having feelings in a line where she is putting her mouth on his most private regions, where his insides go into her mouth and she swallows them, all while he is also putting his mouth on her nether regions... and she has feelings about it? God forbid a sex worker have any feelings, right?
After all, sex workers are not supposed to be human beings. They can't get emotional about work, and if they have a bad day, they should just quit. If they are ever imperfect, (and in this case, perfection means having a hard heart that regards others as nothing but a dollar,) they should just up and quit.
Why does anyone in white collar/blue collar world get to analyze their line of work, make mistakes, fix mistakes, tweak their attitudes and/or performance to get better results, check in on their their work/life balance - but sex workers can't?
I think it's funny when someone says "Up. You have a question. You should quit." It's completely irrational to say that, especially to someone who is checking in about it. It's the people who don't question themselves or their performance / results who are the dangerous ones. In this job, one of the things we have to keep in check is our feelings and reactions. It's part of the job description.
I haven't met anyone who is excellent at every thing in the job description list. Try being the one to review 200+ reviews annually for spelling errors. You find out a lot just reading it lol!
No one is perfect, and no one has perfect balance. Everyone at the end of the year had a list of things to improve upon, in the realm of the physical labor, and also the attitudes and mental approach toward their role at the company.
The only sex workers in this world are human beings with feelings. If these guys want a robot, then go buy a robot. They are available.
Quote:
Posted By: BigPeterJohnson
but seriously, i guess it's just a matter of degree. if a lady gets too bent out of shape when someone she likes stops seeing her, she might want to reconsider her life choices.
-- Modified on 2/12/2016 11:47:51 AM
....sure friendships (and occasionally love) can form, especially from long term arrangements. We are all only human, after all. But in the long run it has to stay business. Having a thick skin and trying not to take things personally is the only way to survive.
Unrequited love in the real world is hard enough, but in the sex trade I imagine that it would be absolutely devastating
Unrequited love in the real world is hard enough, but in the sex trade I imagine that it would be absolutely devastating.
a great relationship with someone who claims to have feelings for you and expects you to walk away from the hobby because of the feelings (mutual regard aside) then they decide they won't see you anymore because you won't leave.
I've had a great many genuine friendships and romances form in this hobby. Occasionally the ones who left on good terms keep in touch, but the freebie guilters, to the left, to the left.
Did not mean to hijack you post. But I agree with it being 100 percent business either way
...my lady friends for references. That's why I belong to Date-check.
And I do think it breaks the GF "vibe", even if that is somewhat of an illusion. (I still like to think I am friends with my regulars.)
I will ask them for a reference to attend a Meet & Greet.
Men and by this I mean ALL MEN love strange pussy. They don't like pain in the ass pussy blockers though. So I concur with the alias. Be a good girl and give him a reference.
is there anything sacred in this business? are there ANY unspoken rules? or everything is up for sale?the only thing matters is $ for providers? and fresh meat for mongers?
help me understand
am i too naive? too i need become all business and always keep on reminding myself that i am only interesting while i am fresh meat and i need to milk the moment ?
Please, take care of yourself and your business. From this side of the country, it appears that you are young, eager, gorgeous, and delight in a broad range of activities. And you are underpriced. Look at Boston's top ten; you are underpriced. Look at the Los Angeles top ten, their donations are at least double what yours are. You can make more money in less time and enjoy life more. Btw, I would ask my ATF for a reference. Hey, I didn't meet her while fondling a rosary and taking vows of chastity and I will be back to see her. She hasn't lost my business. She has sex with other people and I have sex with other women; that's the hobby. Be safe and consider a tour to sunny, warm San Diego. Sign me up for an extended date with you. I can't get anything done in 1 hour. Yum!
tung of fun is correct, octavia you are underpriced imo. your pix are so hot and i have pm'd you letting you know how much i love to see you on a tour, so if you go to san diego let me know i'll drive down and see you.
but tung is right, you can probably up your price by at least $100, work less and make more. and maybe get a better class of client too.
and tung is also right; your atf is having sex with other ladies, and you are having sex with other guys. now is not the time to get jealous. it's a business first.
we have girls here who are priced more than me with good rankings and comparable looks,then they post specials because they are not getting enough business at their raised prices
but tung is right, you can probably up your price by at least $100, work less and make more. and maybe get a better class of client too.
and tung is also right; your atf is having sex with other ladies, and you are having sex with other guys. now is not the time to get jealous. it's a business first.
I resent the fact that you equate wealth with class. I know you will defend yourself by pointing out that you said "maybe". I'd say maybe not.
---later
For Olivia's San Diego visit, let's invite the SD phenom for a "fourYum"
I understand that you want to get closer to your clients, but at the end of the day they move on and see whoever they want. We may have regulars, but yes, the ugly truth is they see us as fresh meat they want to experience.
Please, value your time more. Giving away OTC time doesn't make them stay forever, and only disadvantages you. Whoever tells you to do anything for them for free is manipulating you.
Being a companion is a profession, you don't have to be cold and "business-like" to properly run a business. Good clients know these boundaries; if a man wants affection for free, there's always Tinder and OkCupid.
thank you,girl
Please, value your time more. Giving away OTC time doesn't make them stay forever, and only disadvantages you. Whoever tells you to do anything for them for free is manipulating you.
Being a companion is a profession, you don't have to be cold and "business-like" to properly run a business. Good clients know these boundaries; if a man wants affection for free, there's always Tinder and OkCupid.
I use my regular as a reference. It's business and everything is above board, which is why he's doing that. It sounds like you are going beyond the usual client/provider relationship and you need to speak up. As clients we are so bombarded with rules that we will never speak up first even if we really like a provider so you have to. I have met providers who were ok with their BF's seeing other providers, but I've also met providers who were not ok with it at all. Speak up if it bothers you. I'm sure he's just trying to be a good client and isn't trying to upset you. Good luck.
Few like to admit that something from this industry has caused pain (even to ourselves), but it's far better than being delusional. We all know it's a business arrangement and we say it constantly, yet contradict that daily with things like OTC, GFE, steamy/flirty/friendly emails, image obsession, jealousy, vindictiveness, and talking in this GD board. We may not act on impulses, but anyone claiming they've never had any emotional investment in the hobby is full of shit.
Your mind knows what's right. You've learned how to avoid feeling like this in the future.
-- Modified on 2/11/2016 2:56:58 PM
There is no place for jealously in this endeavor - on either end. That being said, just because a client wants to see another provider does not devalue the experience you and he had. Anyone who goes comparing each experience to the last just isn't doing this right, and, whether you are a client or provider, comparing is only going to limit your pleasure and feel good in the moment.
A second note about the "ATF" dynamic - clients who I click with in particular have always insisted on honoring my consideration, often above and beyond what was required. And none of them would accept OTC if offered. An ATF relationship is not a pseudo-romantic one, au contraire, the boundaries are even more clear and the form of special affection that feels so good about ATF is the deliberate, careful and enthusiastic respect of the nature of the relationship. At least, this has been my experience.
-- Modified on 2/11/2016 4:13:16 PM
good definition of atf
What are you looking for?
If you're making a living as a hooker then your profession dictates not getting so attached to your client that your professionalism suffers...if you require background info and references from your clients then you owe them the same courtesy...
As a client I'm not looking for a relationship, I'm looking for an experience...once that moment is over so is our relationship...I don't owe you any loyalty beyond the time I paid for nor do I expect yours...I know you're seeing other clients, why is it a problem if I see other providers?
If you're looking for more than that then maybe you need to re-evaluate your career choice...
Octavia It is your business and your life run it and live it the way it makes you happy. If you like this guy as a friend, and you like being with him then do it. If you ever feel that he is taking advantage of you on the otc time then kick him to the side.
I posted a question on here a while back to see if it is possible for a provider to like spending time with me, or was it all about the money. From what I can tell you do enjoy your time with him for what ever reason you may. I find it refreshing that a girl like you can find a mutually satisfying relationship with somebody. If your otc time with him does not hurt your business and you do enjoy the time with him then go for it. I do know that I pay for my atf to come and see me but does not mean she can not truly enjoy my company also. That is one of the reason I will keep seeing her until it runs it course. Until then I will enjoy every encounter with her as if it our last one.
Thank you
is there anything sacred in this business? are there ANY unspoken rules? or everything is up for sale?the only thing matters is $ for providers? and fresh meat for mongers?
help me understand
am i too naive? too i need become all business and always keep on reminding myself that i am only interesting while i am fresh meat and i need to milk the moment ?
One of the very first ladies I met in this hobby is still a regular for me, and she will be forever. Part of the reason is due to her attitude and behavior re references and beyond. This lady is a pro and a very smart business person.
She consistently provides references even though my visits can be spaced out in time. But she goes well beyond just providing references. When our schedules don't work, she does intros for me. Including some who are UTR. One of these ladies has turned out to be another favorite. I am seeing amazing providers that I would never have found any other way.
She also has friends in other cities, so if she knows I am traveling she will recommend and intro me to her friends in these cities. Ladies who she thinks will appreciate my “style" as she calls it.
She is hard core bi, so in most cases these women are more than just friends. So we sometimes end up talking about how amazing they are and comparing notes. This is a turn on for me.
So overall, she has taken an interest in my overall well-being in the hobby, even if it could mean more competition. Her enlightened self interest means she has a special place for me. As mentioned above, this means she will keep me as a client for as long as she is in the business. I will miss her when she hangs em up.
She sounds verrrrrryy familiar just wink and nod lol
She consistently provides references even though my visits can be spaced out in time. But she goes well beyond just providing references. When our schedules don't work, she does intros for me. Including some who are UTR. One of these ladies has turned out to be another favorite. I am seeing amazing providers that I would never have found any other way.
She also has friends in other cities, so if she knows I am traveling she will recommend and intro me to her friends in these cities. Ladies who she thinks will appreciate my “style" as she calls it.
She is hard core bi, so in most cases these women are more than just friends. So we sometimes end up talking about how amazing they are and comparing notes. This is a turn on for me.
So overall, she has taken an interest in my overall well-being in the hobby, even if it could mean more competition. Her enlightened self interest means she has a special place for me. As mentioned above, this means she will keep me as a client for as long as she is in the business. I will miss her when she hangs em up.
Doubt it - totally different geography. Good to hear there are others like her.
but he keeps coming back to me at the end of the day. No hard feelings I sleep around I would expect nothing less from him its called the hobby after all.
OTC is the curse of all curses, especially if you really like and admire a client. As far as I'm concerned, if someone likes me THAT much to spend more time with me, he will take care of me even more, without me even having to ask. Why should you, who are "so special" to this guy, be the "cheap date"? Why not be the one he dumps the most investment into if he likes you so much? Kind of like "Want to know if a hooker really likes you? Stop paying her."
How about, "Want to know if a Customer really likes you? Charge him." Why be second financially when he calls you first emotionally? The emotional support is by far THE most challenging part of this business, in my opinion. WHY is that part free for so many of us?
Then there's security vs dollars. If someone is supporting me on a monthly basis with XXX amount, guaranteed ($5 grand at the first of the month, where I can take the month off if I really wanted to) I'd still even put a cap on the amount of time. After all, I'm still building my future.
I have a few clients that I just drool over. But that boundary I call the "green fence" (Financial support, and not seeing me as a cheap date) - this is your rate for this long or that long - and that's our agreement for this allotted amount of time. Rates I choose that I will be happy with when they go back home to their wives, kids, or ask for references from other women in the industry, while I'm preparing my heart to not see them for a while, and re-focusing/compartmentalizing to guard my heart.
Hell, if he's supporting my future, fuck it - I'll handle the pain while I live my comfortable life, and have a safety net, partially provided by him.
OTC with this guy is money lost with other opportunities. Arrangements are security, (def don't do arrangements cheap - I've done that - ouch. Very bad idea.) Money is him investing in you, your business, and your future, and it's his contribution or his inheritance that he is giving to you, so when he ups and leaves, he left you something.
And that's why I hate OTC. God I was miserable when I did that shit all the time back in the day. Felt so used, it sucked.
**edited** I forgot to mention, the girl has nothing to do with it obviously, and I'd definitely be happy to give her a good referral. I'm glad other ladies support me in that, and feel good doing the same. But I can see where that would kind of jab you a bit. 
I never tell guys not to see other girls. In fact, I encourage it.
Been there, done that sister. If you didn't have feelings, you wouldn't be as great at what you do. And that's one huge reason I don't give out OTC.
-- Modified on 2/11/2016 7:43:07 PM
amazing post
How about, "Want to know if a Customer really likes you? Charge him." Why be second financially when he calls you first emotionally? The emotional support is by far THE most challenging part of this business, in my opinion. WHY is that part free for so many of us?
Then there's security vs dollars. If someone is supporting me on a monthly basis with XXX amount, guaranteed ($5 grand at the first of the month, where I can take the month off if I really wanted to) I'd still even put a cap on the amount of time. After all, I'm still building my future.
I have a few clients that I just drool over. But that boundary I call the "green fence" (Financial support, and not seeing me as a cheap date) - this is your rate for this long or that long - and that's our agreement for this allotted amount of time. Rates I choose that I will be happy with when they go back home to their wives, kids, or ask for references from other women in the industry, while I'm preparing my heart to not see them for a while, and re-focusing/compartmentalizing to guard my heart.
Hell, if he's supporting my future, fuck it - I'll handle the pain while I live my comfortable life, and have a safety net, partially provided by him.
OTC with this guy is money lost with other opportunities. Arrangements are security, (def don't do arrangements cheap - I've done that - ouch. Very bad idea.) Money is him investing in you, your business, and your future, and it's his contribution or his inheritance that he is giving to you, so when he ups and leaves, he left you something.
And that's why I hate OTC. God I was miserable when I did that shit all the time back in the day. Felt so used, it sucked.
**edited** I forgot to mention, the girl has nothing to do with it obviously, and I'd definitely be happy to give her a good referral. I'm glad other ladies support me in that, and feel good doing the same. But I can see where that would kind of jab you a bit.
I never tell guys not to see other girls. In fact, I encourage it. Been there, done that sister. If you didn't have feelings, you wouldn't be as great at what you do. And that's one huge reason I don't give out OTC.
-- Modified on 2/11/2016 7:43:07 PM
I'm sure he asks you to recommend him so that you communicate with the provider, getting enough of a feel for who she is so you can imagine what the two of them will be doing. It's a way of stimulating you. It'll be even more exciting the next time he sees you.
It's a true bummer to not have a pile of cash for all of that OTC, which cock-blocked other opportunities, but you know.
My friend used to see a provider about a year ago and she was new to the business. He was one of the first guys to do a review for her and so she knew his handle and she would watch to see how many and what type of women he was seeing. She would get upset with him when she would see knew reviews from him on TER for other providers. I told him that it was not a good idea to share his handle with her.
I think really, before you can enforce policies with how you want to deal with extras and time, validating your gut feeling, and your feelings in general, really helps you explain it to yourself, so you can communicate it properly to others.
i swear this green fence analogy is one of the best things I've used to explain exactly what you're talking about. It really helps.
By the way, you are gorgeous. That hair, wow! (Not being creepy, but don't fret - you can replace him easy if you need to lol!)
xoxo
what your point is? or what are you trying to get to? while there's some exception like anything else in life you already said the OBVIOUS about the hobby: $ for providers and fresh meat for mongers.
To answer your question: by "my defintion" my ATF got that precise designation because she exceeds my expectation, she is giving me a fantastic deal for a generous menu and most excellent service.
I would not risk alienating or in anyway upsetting her in the slightest way by giving her proof that I see other women. Sure most providers would not be as naive to think that they're the only one their clients see but I'm sure they'd rather suspect that's the case than having unequivocal proof.
It's called "guarding the golden goose that lays the golden eggs" (LOL
I rarely stray from my ATF, but yes I use her as a reference. Who would know me better? I know she is fucking more men than I want think about but I still crave her company. Why should she get butt hurt if I see another hooker?
help me understand
am i too naive? too i need become all business and always keep on reminding myself that i am only interesting while i am fresh meat and i need to milk the moment ?
establish a real rapport with your clients. The difficulty lies in being able to know when that rapport is real. Just as many providers do a rather convincing job of leading some of their clients into believing they enjoyed a session.........when in fact they might not have.........some hobbyists may be equally skillful in this area.
Again IMHO........the important thing is.........YOU get everything that makes sense to YOU out of an appointment with your clients. After all, that is what they are doing.
many dangers on our end of getting too attached, being too trusting. I think it's wise for us as hobbyists to be able to maintain enough emotional distance that we don't run the risk of getting rinsed.
Heck, my ATF came down with the flu once, so called a friends, recommended me, and set up the date as our date just wasn't going to happen. She chose well by the way.
Maybe I'm the exception to the rule, but I don't view the providers I see as a piece of meat or a cum receptacle. I understand very well that in this business, the providers are going to develop a certain emotional attachment to at least some of their clients, and I don't take that lightly. Also, because I am recently divorced, and have no girlfriends IRL at the moment, my ATF and the other providers I see are my girlfriends...and I don't care if you're an ATF, a FWB, a girlfriend, or a wife; I treat the women in my life like princesses. I tell my ATF that I love her all the time, and she says the same...and proves it with my grandfathered rates and OTC time. It's very minimal OTC, mostly running an hour and a half on one-hour dates and the occasional lovey-dovey phone call, but it's there. She knows that I don't have a lot of money, and she also knows that if I did have a lot of money, I'd spend a hell of a lot on her. So she does what she can for me, without screwing herself in the process.
Fresh meat my ass.
Fresh meat my ass.
When I do work for clients, what they are most concerned about is the quality, price, promptness etc. of my work. That does not mean that they have to treat me like a discarded stapler if I get sick or have heart attack. Just because I do not go out of my way to get to know a taxi driver, an airplane pilot, or a waitress, does not mean I do not treat them like a human being. There is nothing wrong with simply paying someone for a service in a mutual transaction.
What would be rude would be to have no concern for your provider's well being or comfort. If my clients want to treat me like a "cum receptacle" or what I would refer to as a "just business" relationship I could care less as long as they pay me the right amount promptly, do not waste my time, or are otherwise a pain in the ass that is unrelated to the assignment, and understand my limitations and needs as a human being.
Octavia, I think you should listen to the ladies and protect yourself, but I also think you’re right that it’s not unreasonable to expect a guy to understand that once you reach a certain level it’s not business as usual.
OTC implies things are kind of personal. I’m not saying it means you’re walking down the aisle or even that things are romantic, but it does mean things have probably gone beyond a performance. The guy's not just a transaction and the she's not just the flavor of the month. Or week. Or day.
So for me, if things progressed to off the clock time or a woman told me her real real name (not one of her three fake real names [funny, Julia]), a whole new set of rules kicked in. One was to think beyond the per session model. Another was no reference requests. Not because I was dancing around anybody’s insecurities but as a sign of respect. Respect for her feelings, respect for the chance she’s taking, stuff like that. If a woman who charges for her time starts giving you time for free, odds are pretty high some feelings are involved. Might not be love, but it’s something.
I’m no model citizen, though. I’ve screwed up plenty and hurt plenty of feelings, so I’ve learned some things the hard way.
(Speaking of screwing up, if any lady I ever did ask for a reference stumbles across this and you’re wondering “So what was I, chopped liver,” just keep in mind I asked you for a reference early on. Or later after it was painfully clear you’d fired me. Depending on who reads this.
I do not understand why you think OTC means that a client has to stay committed. If I asked for a reference and and I found out the person did not give one or gave a bad one in order to keep me going back to her I would not see her again. If you want to attach strings to the OTC you should communicate it to the client; however, I would find it hypocritical for you to want him to commit when you clearly do not. If you want to do extra for repeat clients or clients you really like to try tp get them to repeat more, by all means go ahead, but if you get controlling and possessive it would drive me away.
Edit: This is directed at the OP
-- Modified on 2/13/2016 4:00:29 AM
Obviously, I can't speak for her (I caught your edit), but maybe it’s more about discretion than commitment. Or consideration. Any of the ladies I, um, progressed with knew I was still screwing half the Western world unless I told them otherwise. And if I’d asked any of the ladies for a reference, I think one or two might have been like, “Ooo, tell me about her,” but I think the more common reaction would have been “Are you serious.”
It can be like asking a lady you’re dating casually, or just sleeping with, to help you pick up a cute girl you see on the subway all the time.
It’s casual, so Subway Girl’s obviously not off limits, but maybe you should talk to somebody else about how to approach her