I have known this lady for a long time. Probably about 5 years next year. I have meet her family, few friends, we spend time talking (email,text,calls,text) during the week. So basically I know her in her personal life.  
We became close friends and trust each other so we both know about our daily life issues. We spend a little time otc and a few days out of the month together. Like complete days or 4-6 hrs. We did come up with a "fee" for all her troubles
We basically spend all day together ever other wknd.  
The sex is out of this world. The company is like my gf. She even knows my friends and family. Some ppl think we are a couple. Age difference is minimal  
There's only a slight issue.  She gets kinda mad or jealous when I try to see another girl. She don't know my handle.  
I help her when she needs something. I give her small gifts.  
Is this a normal arrangement??
I'm still fairly new to all this questions.  
Thanks for the harsh/bashing responses.

As long as you can discuss boundaries, what is allowed etc... Perhaps she may now have feelings for you which is why she may be jealous, sometimes when you spend time with someone you like, care and know so much about this is inevitable.. If it bothers you, maybe is time to have a conversation  with her about your expectations and hers to clarify things..I don't see why this would be an abnormal arrangement specially if both of you like each other, have chemistry and her along for the most part..

Since you're paying her, she is not your girlfriend. If it causes her trouble to spend time with you, and you had to come up with a fee, she is not your girlfriend. A girlfriend would have no trouble spending time with you. I'm on a real name basis with a couple of favs. We exchange gifts occasionally. Two or three favs go otc regularly. A couple favs do get really mad when I see other women, so I don't ask them for a reference anymore. We help each other out when possible, and share life issues. But they are not my gfs. So don't read too much into this. And don't screw up the great sex by making a proclamation of love, or the withdrawal of your fee just to see what happens. Can I ask you a question? Does she have a fee for other gentlemen? In my opinion, what you have here is a wonderful favorite. One that transcends the boundaries of normal client/provider relationships. You know how rare that it? Yes, we've all heard the stories of those who have transitioned into gf/bf, or even marriage, but to be very very honest, 99.99% of the time, the favorite relationships that transcend everything, always end. Man, if I were you, since this is so rare, I'd consider only seeing her until it all plays out. You'll have time for other ladies later. Oh, one last thing. Don't ever tell her your handle!

How can you expect "normal"?  Do you pay her when you see her? If so you are her ATM. If not you have really fucked things up because she may think you are her long term paycheck.

They want all the sales to them self I only bank with a national bank because I travel.

Okay, people are people. People rely on on each other in different ways, to provide different kinds of support. People seem to need other people. That part I'm less certain about.

Jealousy is an emotion. It happens a lot between lovers of any sort. What your friend feels and what she does are two different things. DO NOT JUDGE ANYONE FOR HOW THEY FEEL. Their actions are subject to judgement, but not their feelings. Because she sees you as a friend, she assumes it is all right to express how she feels. Respect that, and feel honored that she trusts you in that way.

Because P4P is "all business" does not mean that emotions won't come into play. Maybe she fears that you will establish a relationship with someone else that will preclude her from your life. And she has a vested interest in you. She has spent OTC time with you and allowed you some access to her personal life. She may feel threatened by outsiders you meet. Does she threaten to do anything to them? I doubt it. Did she lash out at you? It doesn't sound like she did. She might have been hurt simply because you took your business elsewhere. In short, she said, "Ouch." Respect her right to express how she feels. EOS.

Don't ever trust anyone, unless you've been in a relationship with them for a couple years at least! She probably enjoys your company, feels safe with you...and likes the emotional support. I don't know the situation or the people involved, but just have fun and don't start to get too sprung  well good luck!

Come on man. A GF doesn't charge a fee and a professional provider doesn't get jealous. This girl is not treating you like a BF she's treating you like an exclusive SD. What did you do to give her the impression that this was the deal?   And by the way,  is she still fucking other men for money?  If the answer to the latter is yes you can pretty much skip the first question--you're screwing yourself.

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You write "The company is like my gf" are you saying the relationship is the same as it is with your GF or a GF relationship? The only time I paid a GF for sex was when we were roll playing P4P, The fee was $10, the sex was off the chain.

and it reminds me of the psychiatrist who answers the "is this normal or nuts" questions.  You  may be in a somewhat common situation but most people here, including me, don't think it's normal.  So that leaves the alternative.   But, obviously we don't know the entire story.  If this lady you're talking about knows your friends and family, you may end up being the one with the "troubles".   And it that does become the case, she won't be paying YOU for them.

After five years, maybe you should finally decide if you want a provider or a gf?  You just can't mix the two!!
Since you "try to see other girls", it seems as though you do not want a girlfriend or wife, so that makes her a provider--plain and simple.  So I would say, enjoy your time together but keep things separate.

Despite what some say here, it's not all black and white. The lines have been blurred.

How do you feel about her seeing her clients? It sounds like you are not married. Do you get a twinge of jealously, or it that part one sided? If she have met your personal friends and some family members it seems like you think of her as more than just a lady in the biz.

I think the jealousy is because she has chosen to spends a lot of time OTC and is generous with her time with you in the romance dept and then you go and spend money on other ladies and I'm guessing it's at their regular rate. This is only my guess. And again, despite what others will say here, I think she thinks of you as different from "just a client".

It sounds like you two need to have a mature convo about expectations, feelings ect. It may be better to not tell her when you see someone else. It may have been cool in the beginning of the friendship, but now it sounds like it's causing some hurt feelings.

If you want to continue your relationship (and with the blurred lines, that's what ya'll have) a sit down is needed.

There are more people that have met this way and are right where you are than you think. Only you two can figure out how to make this work... or not. Let her know what your feelings are for her.

Communication  is the key to any successful relationship.

xoxo,

Steph

Me... I think the problem is the labels we always try to put on things.  

Boyfriend, girlfriend, SO, like a girlfriend, like a boyfriend, sugar daddy, sugar baby... and on and on.  Someone else made up those words.  Not you.  Not me.  Not this lady. Not any of us.  But we always seem to shoehorn our realities into someone else's shoes.... For my 2 cents, the only labels I think make sense are your names.  

I believe we can spend days here with some really bright minds on this forum debating these labels and still not agree on what they mean; and i stopped caring years ago.  

So for me, each relationship is different, defined only by who you are.  Unique unto you and her.   Is money involved? sure it is?  Is it involved in other types of relationships, in different ways, between other people?  sure it is.  Who cares?  Money is involved in lots of interpersonal things.  Let's try somethings new - let's try not to define any of them...

But being a realist, there are those of us who will crave definitions so for those of us dictionary.com says a girlfriend is a frequent or favorite female companion; sweetheart; a female friend; a female friend with whom a man or boy is romantically or sexually involved; sweetheart; any female friend; a best girlfriend; also, a female lover.   Sounds like for those of us who like definitions she is your girlfriend as I don't see where they make an exception for P4P.   But to me this is irrelevant, or perhaps this is why labels are irrelevant.  

What matters is this is 'you' and 'her'   You two obviously have deep feelings for each other.  What makes this relationship uniquely yours is that it sounds like you two have a lot of history and roots together.  OK, so you have paid her for her companionship, and sometimes you don't, you see her sometimes but not every day, she will take money to have sex with other men, she doesn't want you to pay to have sex with other women, and on and on.
So what????   This is you and her.  If it works it does. If it don't it don't.  But my advice is to not look at labels to define it, and lord, please don't put it in terms of normal.  Normal is simply a city in Illinois.    

Remember, the world wasn't created with labels - they're a lazy way of putting people, ideas and behaviors in boxes to include, exclude, diagnose, and make us all nuts (now there's a label I like).  Imagine a world without them; or at least our world - no terms like sugar daddy, sugar baby, girlfriend, boyfriend, SO, etc... and even provider and client...   just for a day try to think of how we would view our lives and relationships without these words.  I bet without these labels we'd all feel pretty damn 'normal' :

Unless you've been in this kind of relationship with a lady and had the lines blurred like this, you don't really know what's going on.

You are YOUNG and are seeing this from your limited experience in this world here. There are obviously some very strong feelings going on between these two.

The gray area can be difficult but it's workable in some cases.

Steph xoxo

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I think that at least to her way of thinking, this has become a committed SO relationship, one with cash benefits too.

To the OP:  You don't mention it specifically, but is she still working as an escort seeing other guys?  If so, she's being sort of hypocritical, at least to my way of seeing things.

If she is, how do you feel deep down inside about that?

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Unless when you take a civvy date to dinner she pays for herself, then you are paying for her time.  It's just not being called a fee.

If she reads this board, his OP will have given her plenty of info to figure out it's him.  Danger, Will Robinson! Danger!

and my response was a bit simplistic; using the false-dilemma type of reasoning, as I did, is usually in error.   Thanks for providing your argument--it was nicely done, IMO.   Not only that, but it makes a LOT of sense and is good advice for all of us.

eom

Reminds me of John Lennon.

"Imagine all the people
Living for today"

This happened to me. I was taken in by the good sex and expression of love and caring she showed, on occasion. Other times she was a jealous psyco. We also had an "arrangement" and I paid for a lot of large ticket items as well as groceriies, bills, and last year Xmas for her grandkids.  She expressed interest in wanting to get out of the business and go back to school but something always came up. Turns out I was just like an ATM to her. She eventually went really psyco on me and we broke it off. Best thing that could of happened. As long as she's still a provider she'll never be a GF. It's an expensive trap my friend. Ended up costing me over $20K...

t appears her perception and yours is different. Instead of beating around the proverbial bush all over the board, why don’t you have nice conversation to get in sync

this make excellent sense; especially the part about communication.  It's hard enough for a couple to be on the same wavelength when we talk; but when we don't it's not just the distance between venus and mars, it more like mercury and neptune.

-- Modified on 11/29/2014 12:00:35 PM

Not necessarily a bad thing...  but I agree that an open conversation about expectations & where you each want this to go, is in order.  If you don't want to be exclusive then you'd best keep that to yourself or kiss her goodbye!    
If you are available for more, you must decide if that's something you want.

I've said that ever since you've been here that you live in a fantasy black and white world with no room for nuance.

I believe, or at least I hope that with a few more years of life experience you will begin to see the many shades of gray that those of us who are a bit wiser (which is almost everyone) can see quite clearly.

People with the least amount of actual experience tend to see things in absolutes, you wonder why you are constantly used as a piñata, this is one of the biggest reasons, spouting off about shit that you don't have a clue about.

NowI'mReallyConfused.  But seriously, if she does find out and reads about his concerns--that may be a good thing.  It could lead to a spirited and beneficial discussion.  It's usually easier to sort things out when you have another view from a trusting partner!

1. There is no need or advantage in telling  her you visited  another provider.  
 
 2.If she was your civilian GF would you feel the need to confess when you strayed?  

  After five years visiting the same provider on a regular basis, if she's not giving her ATM  some OTC, she can't stand his presence  without his money.  

  PFWB - Paying friend with benefits  

   Normal is always a personal perception.
  From my perspective you ask questions a normal person wouldn't ask  

Don't be the guy that pretends to really like the lady for a discount, which your getting clearly. Then goes and spends the remaining play money you have now on other ladies.
                   Thier are actualy guys who like this is thier game and they play it with as many willing and gullible providers possible. Then they take the money they save by playing a head game with her to hobby more.
                     Dont be that guy, If you dont really like her and need other escorts, Pay her the full rate by the hour and pay her 4-6 hour dinner date fee if you want to spend that kinda time with her.  
                      There are far too many guys that run games with escorts in order to save money , get better deals, and then go spend it on others they are attracted too as well.
                I hate it when guys do this to me, I have had so many et to know me, act like they like me, and i liked them. Then comes the. Oh but i dont have that kind of money, I dont nor mally even hobby!
Meaning they were pretending to like me for free sex. So they can get free appts.
If your still gonna hobby treat her with the respect of paying her for the dinner dates and extra times, dont be a jerk.

Scarsdale, I think your view and expression of it is the best advice I've seen on this topic

Life IS "gray areas" much of the time.  Not being able to understand that is a sign of immaturity, which is no surprise in your case as you have continually demonstrated.

but then as i become a girlfriend I get nothing? maybe a few meals per week.
                      You should treat a girlfriend beter, than you treat and escort. Meaning if you pay me 250 per hour as a whore, Then when i become something of meaning and value to you, you now go send that 250 per week on some one you dont care about then give the one your like less.
 The one you love should get treated betters than the hookers you see.
                 So now she gets an hours pay to take a day off to spend with you?
 But you will go see others ladies for thier hourly wage and no otc time?
 Why do guys do this? shouldnt the lady being good to you get treated best?
                                She is doing otc time , ect, if you have any extra money you should buy her a nice necklace from toffanys for being so good to you not go see 2 ther escorts that week.  
                  This is why i stay single. You get spoiled more by being a whore. By offering something of value and quality to a hobbist you just get less domnation and then they spend it on another whore.
              I will take and stick to being the mens whore they give alot money too than be the old lady they keep at home giving her less and less money so as to save funds to spend on other escorts. This is why I stay being an escort to every guy and never become thier girlfriend. Thats what they do.  
               I d rather be the hooker getting 350 an hour and be able to maintain a lifestyle free from financial stress. than the mans wife at home wondering why the mortgage is never paid and no diapers, The guy is out spendin it on hookers, As someone offering true love yu get the shit end the stick in our society of you ask me. Count me out!@
              if you even have extra 300-600 per month to pay other escorts, you should give her that money instead for being so dam good to your ass. Take her to foxwoods for the 6 hours get her a 300 dollar dinner, So now you saved money by her being a gf so now you become a trader and go spend it on other undeserving escorts that dont give a shit about you? See what thanks we get for being good to customers.  
 She isnt jealous she is mad your screwing her over to have extra to send on other ladies, There is a difference. If your gonna see other escorts give her the respect to go back to being a classy, respectful client, Pay her her requested donation plus tips and gifts which the good clients always do. Mr fisher never shows uo with out a gift and even in between appt will mail me a deposit or like last week he mailed me an awsome book on caveman diets.
                            I agree generous discounts otc with good clients is good, But again mr fisher doesnt pretend to be my bf and get in my head,. like your doing to this escort. She can easily get confused with you really liking her or worse acting like you truly love her. Then it can easily get clouded are you doing this to have extra hobby money or really like her.
                       If your still taking good care of her she shouldnt care what you do but if the help you give her and treatemtnis getting slimmer an dslimmer as you go, then your allowed more and more hobby money or whatever.  
 She isnt jealous she just wants to be treated good.
                       I have plenty of regulars i do discounts and otc and they see other escorts, I dont care.
They are still  being generous with me. Not every hour on the hour pay but......BUT>>>>If your not being generous to her now, and instead want to treat other ladies with more generosity than her,
I met one that did that i got 250 as a whore for an hour, but once i was the girlfriend, like nothing, . When they do that yu know they are playin games and run that scam on every lady they meet and go around gettin discounts and freebies with every one.

I think the jealousy is because she has chosen to spends a lot of time OTC and is generous with her time with you in the romance dept and then you go and spend money on other ladies and I'm guessing it's at their regular rate. This is only my guess.

-- Modified on 11/29/2014 11:40:09 AM

I have lived with guys and split rent, but I would never date a hobbyist for free living in a 1,775.00 apt plus utilities. My current lifestyle requires like round the clock hooking to survive in. I tryed adding in fucking otc no compensation a few times per week, and i quickly felt the financial loss come end of month.
                          With my amount of physical energy i have i have to use it for pse, when i tried doing free fucking I quickly got lower scoring and less money and fell behind, For me to have a bf they would have to shack up with me and sleep in my bed and split rent so i wouldnt suffer financially.  
 Which obviously i would open my place up to them or be willing to shack up at a nother apt together. I couldnt suport the lifestyle i have with a active personal sex life. I put all my gusto into the appts for my rent and thats the gest of it, OR in her positojn i culd do a more vip gf thing with a guy i met at this job but he would have to be able to make up for the money i lose when fuckin him.  
      I agree you should move her in and make it easier on both you,

Foolish or not, he came here for advice and wanted to be as discreet as possible.  The fact that he made a mistake be perhaps giving out too much info is beside the point.  If I feel the need to flame you on occasion, I do it under my handle, but so what?  More "Aliases" such bullshit.

When I tell some how clueless they are, I WANT them to know it was me.

So just who are these cowards you are talking about? Inicky, Curly, Dr Who, myself, all of us are quite forthcoming where it comes to our disdain for many of the things you say here.

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Same difference. Either way it's going to cost Money. Civvie Girls charge for Sex just like a Provider would. I'm very friendly with the Provider I'm seeing. It's practically like having a Regular Girlfriend.

So what your saying is if I take a woman to dinner or a movie or a show or something like that and at the end of the night we have sex, by your definition that's p4p. It's a gray area.

from someone whose reviews read like Harlequin romances. You seem to be using p4p as dating practice, talk about a gray area. Not to mention a really bad idea. But don't let a lack of experience, knowledge, and self-awareness stop you from making your grand black and white, all or nothing declarations, if nothing else they're entertaining.

it would have to be with the right lady, of course, who is willing to do the above mentioned things.  I think it is quite possible that some of us guys have gotten burned by such "grey" relationships for one reason or another.  Hence, we then tend to see things as more black and white just to protect ourselves and our emotions.    It's difficult enough to really KNOW and trust someone that we see on a daily basis irl.  On the other hand, relationships without all the drama of the real world could be easier to maintain.  

Like a quote I once heard:  "you have reality, Captain Pike has his illusion; may you find your way as pleasurable".

Just clear the air and move on.

Also set some ground rules that both parties agree with going forward!

OP

Enjoy it while you can! Life is short

I think I have tried every type of "relationship" with a hooker that I can think of, except for marriage of course, and that's not a knock against hookers, that's a knock against marriage. lol I have been everything from a REAL BF, to a glorified sugar daddy, a boss, a FWB, a "regular", you name it and I have probably tried it.

I have NEVER asked permission or approval from a bunch of strangers about whether or not I was doing the right or normal thing, nor do I ever expect to in the future.

You nailed it, WTF is normal, and who fucking cares. Go for it if it makes you happy, and change those parts that make you unhappy, or at least voice your concern to the only other person who's opinion actually counts in this scenario.

Fuck normal, do what makes you happy. None of this is normal to anyone on the outside looking in.

After years of posting on these boards, I am usually pretty good at understanding most dialects of "Moron" but I don't have a clue as to what you are trying to say.

Translation please.

And I completely agree, they have spent a lot of time together, so no doubt there is some friendliness, but it seems to me this is most likely just an "ouch" as you describe.  If she had stronger feelings I think we would have more than just this "ouch" having been expressed considering all the time they've spent together over a long period.  But certainly with all that time together, it is understandable on a human level how jealous feelings can arise

WTF is normal? If you enjoy the relationship, bask in it for as long as it lasts. If you're troubled by some aspects of the arrangement, come to grips with them or invoke change. Bottom line, normal is whatever you're comfortable with.

He takes care of her to get laid right? I think it sounds great as it makes things more up front and honest, I mean why muck things up by him thinking she is with him because she really loves him right?

 As far as the jealousy part they all get upset when they think someone else might swoop in and take away their cash cow!

you are being quite immature today Rod.

Do you realize how ridiculous that comment is? Unless you actually know the OP, do you really expect the rest of us to believe you have such unbridled empathy for complete strangers. Get over yourself already!

I invited an ex hooker GF to meet my mother. I never made a secret of how we met, she also knows many of my friends, all of whom know she used to be a hooker. Despite a thirty year age difference we were actually a "real" BF/GF for a while, and are still FWB's

Not everyone has hang ups about other peoples opinions about their sex life. Speak for yourself when you say you can't mix a GF with a provider. I do it all the time. It can be challenging at times, but it has worked for me. Of course I am not the type of person who would ask anyone's opinion about me "dating" a hooker. Quite frankly I don't give a fuck who likes it or not. I guess that might be where the OP and I differ, maybe he does give a fuck

why do so many your posts get a "like" immediately after they hit? If you're going to lamely like your own posts at least wait a few minutes so it seems like someone else is doing it. I'm trying but it's hard to think of something more insecure than liking one's own drivel.

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And it really doesn't matter what YOU want to believe about other people's experiences. I've been a member here for damn near 10 years. I've seen the posts on this subject dating back over the years.

You are young and frankly you don't have the life experience that others of a certain age here do. I've been in the gray area for over 2 years once and a year another time. And various degrees of blurred lines a couple of other times. before, you haven't.

He's talking about the gray areas you said don't exist here.

That's funny. Hey Steph, would you like to direct me those "mature days" he's had? lmao

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You aren't the moderator here. He expressed his feelings on the matter and that's his right.

Now you are trying to boss other people around, Rod? I'm betting one of YOUR limited life experiences is fueling your posts here.

WOW!

...trying to convince yourself that some one you are paying for sex is your girl friend and that, hey yeah I pay, but dont we all in one way or another. Sorry. Use whatever label you like but girl friend is not one of them.

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With your post here on this thread, I just can't tell.

SIGH!

Steph

Normal is what Tiddles says it is from the weighty depths of his wellspring of experience. How dare you suggest that life is more complicated and nuanced...what are you, high?

I think this post and others that echo the same sentiment indicate the difference between knowledge and wisdom.  

I was just having this discussion with my teenage son not log ago.  I used 'Thou Shalt Not Kill' trying to make this point.    Perhaps the most black and white phrase we've seen; or one might think. Except many of us here know it's not as black and white as a beginner might think.  So I asked if a burglar was in someone's home with a gun to the homeowner's daughter's head, and in the process of squeezing the trigger, would it be ok for the homeowner to kill that person?  Then I asked him 'if someone was doing the same thing to him would it be ok for me to kill them?'  Like many young men forced to confront their world view this really pissed him off and he stormed away, called me all sorts of names - just like I'm sure i did years ago, and just like we see here from time to time. But I think now he gets it; or he will.  And I hope others here will too as, if there are shades of gray for 'thou shalt not kill' maybe one day it will settle in that it's not an unusually bold leap of faith to see similar shades in what we're discussing here, too.        

Sometimes simple stories help... and of course sometimes they don't.
 -- Modified on 11/29/2014 1:54:22 PM

Rod, most of things in life are an exchange of some sorts, especially in healthy relationships. When it isn't it's not healthy because every car got to get her parts oiled, at least from time to time. If it doesn't it eventually stops driving you around.  

One thing I can't be 100% sure about. Is this woman a provider? I think she is but I don't think you ever mention that she is. If she is, do you talk with her about her other tricks? If yes, then she should probably accept that you see other providers.  

On the other hand, I suspect your relationship is such that you tell her all kind of staff about how close you feel to her and such but every time she makes a tacit step towards you, you pull back. If that's so then such a behavior comes purely intuitively on our part.  

I used to do the same thing with provider whom I felt very close to. I felt that the feeling was reciprocated. But the minute she'd respond to my overtures, I'd intuitively pull back. I used to cursed myself for doing that afterwords. But you know what I learned from life? That it's often much easier to give a gift then to accept one.  
After a while she decided she had enough of "that" and began truly formalizing our relationship and, since then, every time I'd ask her for coffee out (we'd have it quite often beforehand) I'd hear in response  "Oh, but this is so unprofessional!" We still have very close relationship but make no mistake now she makes sure that I know that she's a hooker (how she likes to call herself "a professional") and I'm a trick  

I don't mind since I know she still likes me but she has definitely built a wall, which is my faul

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He certainly didn't post it anywhere. WHERE are you getting the info you're putting out?

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your saying and I think your answer was correct as grey area and thyre friends . I have provider friends and even one that I don't have sex with more like a sister or friend rod wouldn't understand so why bother trying to explain .
have a great day steph xo  

Angel, u r a smart woman n the stuff that u said is true.   The lesson to be learned here and the one that Angel, put so well is no good deed goes unpunished.

reading and writing comprehension.  The Cunning Linguist is quite upset with him.

But your presumption is unbelievable, even for you. I suspect most of the "bunch of people" you refer to picked up p4p later in life, when their personal relationships started to lack something they needed. You, on the other hand, are young and unattached and treat p4p like dating while simultaneously condemning the OP for developing feelings for a provider. You, sir, are an absolute mess and I cringe to think how a long term relationship will play out for you.

they have an arrangement that seems to work for them . and what guy doesn't buy shit for his gf . again every woman costs money and every gf is P4P , guess what ? no money no love ..lol seriously rod you need to grow up and live life and start experiencing things , then maybe you would understand this grown up stuff  .. and the op has a nice thing going hope it lasts  

for him to think the girls he sees are friend and post his hello and smiles and that okay ? he doesn't and will not understand so why bother ..

that you understand the difference between disagreeing and telling someone what they should or should not post. You simply cannot be that dense.

bf gf are you grown up yet rod , really . there are diff kinds of gf s ..like everything in life rod not cut or dry , grey areas

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to obedience school . omg isn't he annoying ? don't waste your time steph , he just likes the attention .  
 

Go back and read the post to which you refer.  Nowhere in it will you find a reference to sex.
And this is precisely an example of why you are so annoying.  In your efforts to make your points you continually distort what other posters say.  It's the closest thing to lying I can imagine.  Calling you reading-comprehension challenged is kind.
And please stop taking the lord's name in vain.  This is a decent fuckboard, you know.

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At first he denied it but I believe he finally fessed up.  Not surprised he's at it again.  He's pretty transparent in all of his petty manipulations.

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Despite your condescension, this guy, whoever he is, has as much right to post his opinion as you.  And here's what you're missing: not a single person has come forth to support your thoughts, only critics.  In this case and several others it's not your usual tormentors.  Even Steph, who usually understanding of you, has schooled you a few times.  And, as usual, you're unable to listen or even concede a point or two.
You have proven yourself beyond hope.

I asked him to clarify a post near the top of the thread because I had no idea what he was talking about but so far he hasn't replied.

If you are paying her way less, then she's probably getting to the point where she's... Questioning whether she should have given you the discount. A frequent, 5 year regular is nothing to shake a stick at. Right or wrong, if you're giving her $1000 for a weekend and someone else that for an hour, it might sting. That is really more her issue.  

Or, she has developed feelings for you, and her jealousy is not stemming from a business standpoint. It's been a long time and you're in frequent contact. It could happen. Again, that's on her.  

Since you can't really control what she does or how she feels, all you can really do is move on and do something about your actions if you feel like you need to to change the situation. If you would like to date her, hint at it. Ask her if it bothers her because she is feeling a little different about the relationship like you do. If you don't, throw her a little extra every once in a while to remind her that you appreciate her kindness in giving you a discount and for her obvious ability to keep it interesting for this long. Maybe invite her along to a threesome so she knows she's still your favorite. Or, you may even want to slow things down communication wise by limiting conversations and not necessarily including her in plans to see other people. It all kinda depends on just how you feel about the situation and how jealous she gets. You know all that better than us

Good luck! You guys obviously clicked, and I hope it works out either way

as a girl he sees once and then moves on.  A discount for a long-time repeat customer is not exactly unusual. Seems like he's earned it and it was obviously by mutual consent.  So nope, no harm, no foul.

Don't you know how to post in tree and branch mode?  And you still don't understand that what Steph pointed out is right?  Good god, Tidwit, everything about your post is totally clueless.

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So, while trying to be cute you once again post something without knowing the facts.  How predictable.

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I sincerely hope you aren't taking any criticisms of your posts to heart. You're the gift that keeps on giving, I'd hate to see you wise up and deprive us of the entertainment.

*chest pound* *kisses fist* *peace sign up to the sky* or whateverthefuck ;-

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bigger than your emoticon

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My god he's pathetic.  

I never thought he'd do it again. Did he ask you to meet him for mimosas and Sunday brunch in DC? I'm just mortified right now, really I am!

I'm going to have a few cocktails at my favorite jazz club and chill.



Steph

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I just don't know what to say now.

I guess he is train-able.  LMAO!
Heavens, I hope he's also not back to sending whiney messages to Admin!  They'll get PO'd and ban him again. Then what would we do for fun?

Like he was before he got shut down. God it's all embarrassing. He's such a child.

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And welcome to the club, I wish I could say it's exclusive and that membership has its privileges. It isn't, and it doesn't.

-- Modified on 11/29/2014 5:28:00 PM

Please don't bother the powers that be on TER about PMs. You are about to go down a path right about now....

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Yep, she had em young and so did they. Late 40's it's not uncommon...

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of black paint and mix them together.  What do you get?  Gray.

Where is she? She unleashed this nut job then disappears. Gotta give her credit. She's smart enough to dodge the shrapnel haha!

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it is a violation of TER policy to post the content of PMs, period. Second, I'd never post someone's PMs to me, regardless how I felt about the content or the sender, or how hilarious many (dare I say most?) would find them. And third, calling out for TER intervention in a post? Get a grip man, you're going off the rails.

in fact I don't recall responding. That doesn't mean I didn't, just that it wasn't worth remembering.

But first: If start with harsh/bashing responses, it’s your handle SoConfused that makes me wonder are you for real? It makes me skeptical to your true situation, or is it half-baked or made-up and you’re doing some sort of research? I’m wondering if using a handle like SoConfused will involve future participation on this board, or is it a one shot deal for you with this one post? It does come across weak-minded, sorry.

Anyway, I do take it you’re young and more likely sincere; whether or not if you’re intention is to participate or not participate in future posts (as a courtesy) please give your OP’s here some feedback by answering their questions, as well as if and how their replies were helpful to you or not.

So, regardless if true or not, it will start with some soul searching to think about what makes you tick?

Sure, along with the great sex, it’s tough to get past the emotional attachments you’ve developed along with some great memories, and I can empathize with you about it as I’ve been with a woman for about the same time as you’ve been with your provider, but mine was a civvie. Only, I broke up with her a number a years ago, but I can now put things in better perspective, since then. I can see the blinders I had on my eyes after I’ve been out of the relationship for a while and the mistakes I’ve made. I certainly don’t plan on making them again, and I think I’m all the wiser.

So here’s the rub:

1. Ask yourself: Am I making decisions out of fear, as in fear of lost? Am I afraid of losing her trust and love because I’m going to see other woman? Can I cope with it if I lose her? Am I better off forgoing the pursuit of other women because I highly value the one I have in my life, even if payment is part of the deal and I don’t want to chance losing her? Am I afraid of what she thinks of me?

Or

2. Am I making decisions out of desire, like I’m going to see other woman even it means losing my provider’s trust and love? What is it that I will gain from seeing other woman, even if I lose the one I’ve developed memories with? Am I willing and going to take that chance in the face of this uncertainty? Or, am I strong enough where I have faith that it will work out with someone new and may lead to something more (not being religious here, it’s an attitude I’m talking about)? Can both seeing my current provider, and seeing other women, co-exist? Does it really matter what she thinks of me?

So, somewhere between the two you’re going to get results and/or consequences. Not always clear and it can get messy (but hey) when you feel like you’ve made the wrong or best decision—own it either way! Be thankful for your success and even mistakes. Yes, mistakes can be great teachers, as they’ll be a gauge on how to go about doing things differently in your life, but the trick is not to repeat your past mistakes.  

Of course, mistakes can be hard to get over, at first, but it can be done; it takes perseverance, desire and a good dose of confidence and always hope and faith, along with knowledge to get through. (Note: success, will confirm your confidence.)

Now here’s something else to think about: When the chips are down, so to speak, will she be there for you? Will she still see you when you stop paying her for her troubles and time because you can’t afford to or are not willing to anymore!? Will she be there for you in sickness? (Comes to mind that old vow: for in sickiness and in health; for better or worse)

Also, be a man and take a bash on the nose from the other OP’s here looking unfavorably on your choice in thinking that a provider can be a girlfriend? What they may be deducting from your arrangement and situation is that it is built on a money base and not on an initial love and trust base. Maybe love and trust come later, even if the money part has not gone away, but it is also premised on the initial instant gratification of sex through money and not earned the old fashion way through courting and friendship where mutual desire leads to sex without the money. So, these OPs are cynical that the woman you are seeing does not come across as a girlfriend and they have a valid point, as once the money stops coming, she stops seeing you!

Yet, who is to really to say what is normal, as you are the captain of your own ship and your decision relies with you and the woman of your choice and visa-versa. (To paraphrase Abe Lincoln: People are about as normal as they make up their mind to be—and, particularly when it involves relationships.  

 
Do this: Pull out a writing instrument and paper and write all the pro’s and con’s regarding your attachment to this woman compared to seeing other women. (Make two columns with a line drawn down the middle; on one side title Pro’s and the other side title Con’s.) Write anything that comes to mind, and after you’re done, see how they number up and consider why you think it will work or not work. Can both work?  

If you do nothing, things will still change; how they change you will find out. Life is not static, it’s dynamic with ebb and flow, and people do change their minds, and people do change; hopefully, for the better.  

Also, another avenue worth looking into is to seek out self help books, psyche books that may help you get a better understanding of your own mind.

Who knows, though, she may become head over heals towards you, and later you marry, but then you change your mind and lose interest in her because you’re attracted to the new woman in your life (something you foregone when you had the chance to see other civvies woman before marriage). You start visiting the P4P seeking out woman/providers because you’re looking for a new experience. (Lots do here that are already married, and I’m certain they have stories to tell.)  

Also, I didn’t interject my opinion about her jealousy towards you about you seeing other woman (plenty of other OP’s offered their advice here) because you’re the one in confusion, and it’s really about how you handle it; it's about you becoming comfortable in your own skin in dealing with it. Please, though, going forward through life, don’t take yourself so seriously; learn to laugh off your mistakes when you make them. And, if you can’t get around not making mistakes; always make new ones. (I’m older, but I continue to make my share of new mistakes—hey, we’re all human, after all.

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My two cents

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he just won the Olympics , lol amazing isn't it . this guys unreal in his quest for a friend .  

Rod distorts.
Rod lies.
Rod cannot distinguish his own weird reality from the truth

And with labels and all the connotations attached, (Scarsdale did make a valiant stab at it and a good point about the nonsense to labels), it’s a trickier task ahead if nuance and grey areas heavily weighed in on—as earlier OPs' posts referred to them having much greater significance than the extremes of black an white; left to right etc. So, for example, let’s take the word stubborn: dictionary definition is having or showing dogged determination not to change one's attitude or position on something, especially in spite of good arguments or reasons to do so.  

Okay, but someone may see it differently, in fact I’ve encountered a person who took strong offense to it when I called him stubborn, as I later found out at some point in his life he encountered a stubborn person that was rebellious and actually threatened him. The connotation to stubborn meant that he was rebellious and threatening; an extremely uncomfortable and offensive emotion.  

Of course, I think stubborn may apply to a certain OP’s wounded pride here because he is all wrapped up in his own self importance to resisting change for the better with reasonable and good arguments; beyond his own belief that life is black and white, or maybe it threatens his own wounded pride?  

So let’s take jealousy; do two people get the same charge or uncomfortable feeling out of it? To me jealousy is a highly uncomfortable emotion, I actually despise and eschew it at all cost; to others, it may be springboard to heartbreak and despair, or it may lead to revenge? Communication; more to it than meets the mind, heart and soul

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OMG nothing more annoying than going out to eat with a guy and talking on the phone for three hours, having a good debate, and all of a sudden you're sitting with a mutual friend, and he's giving you relationship/possible marriage advice. Then you look at him like, "Uhm, we're not dating." "Oh. Well, that's not how he sees it."

Well, sir, I've told the guy "this isn't a date" every time we went out, and "I'm not interested in dating, but I do enjoy your friendship," to him on the phone.

Come to find out, the two of us used different terminology for things. He was taught to 'court', and to never 'date' because dating wasn't Godly. The fact that I didn't call our going out's 'dates' showed him I was 'Godly' instead of the real issue - I didn't want to date him. Telling everyone some random chick you hung out with is your girlfriend is a little over the top, and will only embarrass both you and her later (if she has a conscious).

Please don't only see what you want to see. It will end very badly and it will be very embarrassing and awkward for both. Make sure your terminology is the same, and that she's on the same page.

I've been VERY literal with some people, and what has gotten me into trouble IRL is, if someone is a great intellectual challenge, I can talk to (and even heavily debate with) them forever. But it doesn't mean I want to marry them, which tends to be a common misconception with guys who live off in space somewhere,

I'm not hungry for them as much as I am their brain and the fun I have with them lol.

I would go out with other girls so you can free up your brain. I prefer now for guys who have arrangements to see at least one other girl so they don't get too focused on me. If you're nervous that she's going to tell your family and friends, and you're not as in to her, you've got a hairy situation on your hands. But ANY girl that would blackmail you like that, you'll be miserable with. Something ain't right if a girlfriend is blackmailing you into a relationship. Fuck that


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Have very few clients think I'm going to run away with them. Lol