Exotica, Body Miracle and the other agencies charge between $1000 and $1500 an hour for their well-known stars. I assume they take a good chunk (one-third to one-half) of that to cover overhead and to hopefully, make some money. What should a hobbyist say when he is in direct contact with a star and she asks for $1100 or more an hour? (One relative unkown recently asked me for $1200/hour and $5000/4 hours -- math not being her strength.) Is that now the going rate, even when you know she is keeping all of that? It's a personal decision, I know, whether Miko Lee is worth $1500/hour or not. But shouldn't there be a difference if Miko is having to give half of the gross to the agency? None of us like to feel we've been ripped off -- just screwed. Seriously, I'd appreciate hearing from some of the ladies and some of the more seasoned PS hobbyists on this. Maybe all the rest of you have figured this out and have direct contact with all the stars. If so, I'd like to know what you pay them and I'll shut up. Thanks.
I'm not quite sure what point your trying to make.
First of all, no agency, that I'm aware of, takes 50%.
Secondly, what the cut is, with any girl and the agency, is irrelevant, and really none of anyone's business.
Thirdly, the fact that the girl is willing to see you, without you having to go through an agency, and ultimately saving you money, (100 to 500), should be sufficent in and of it's self.
What difference does it make what the cut is, as long as "you" are saving money, isn't that the "bottom line"?
After reading your post a second time, I feel it is necessary to comment on your statement of being ripped off. YOUR NOT GETTING RIPPED OFF,,,,,if your saving money, at least that's what my math skills tell me.
-- Modified on 1/2/2003 7:24:44 PM
I think the point he was trying to make is that porn stars negotiating on their own are asking for the same rate the angencies were. The whole concept behind "going direct" was to cut out the agency fee altogether, not just save $ or two.
As far as 50%, that is not very far off, it's closer than you think. And as LA LaMann stated, the angecies do not pick up the tab for hotels. With many agencies, all they do is adverise, set appointments and screen clients (and if only the ladies knew how lax some agencies can be with their screening), so they get more than their fair share.
I think rates have just gotten out of control overall, with PS and regular providers. In these economic times, I'm discovering that the hour with my fantasy girl is not nearly as memorable as the sacrifices I had to make for the money I spent on her.
Possibly we are reading 2 different posts. I do not interpert the post to say, the "girls" are trying to charge the same rate as the agencies are charging.
I read his example as this: Miko Lee thru an agency is 1500, and "if" the agency is getting 50%, then Miko only receives 750, ie., Miko only deserves to get 750 from "him" or whomever, when booking directly with her.
Let's split the difference, if at 1650 credit card, the service takes 40%, then the girl would receive 990. If at 1500 cash, and 40%, the girl would receive 900.
Now I certainly think that just about everyone would love to save either 600 or 650.
You have 2 choices, either pay the full amount, or pay the reduced rate and save at least 600, which sounds better?
Personally, I think each and everyone involved in this business understands the economic times, and the hobbyist should be happy that some of the girls are trying to ease the "sacrifices or hurt" as you put it, by going out on their own.
Try not to lose sight that the majority of the PS, DO get their airfare and hotel paid for by the agencies, if not, why would they pay such a high "cut" to the agencies? Certainly not for their advertising and answering the phone.
Don't forget, the girls who do go out on their own, now have to handle not only the phone calls, e-mails, verification, but their airfare and hotel bills.
In these economic times, I would think even saving 100 would make a person grateful.
especially yours, Kathy. Sorry I wasn't more clear.
Some of the ladies ARE trying to charge the same rate as the agency is charging. One of the reasons I posted is that in the case where no airfare, hotel or advertising is involved (e.g. a local meeting) arranged directely with the PS/provider, those reduced costs should be passed on to the consumer/hobbyist.
While I agree with you that any hobbyist should be happy saving $600+ if booking Miko at 40% off her agency rate, I respectfully disagree about it being my business. As soon as I am paying that kind of money for anything, it becomes "my business." Each PS/provider can obviously set her rates at whatever level she likes both through an agency or directly. And each hobbyist has to decide whether to accept the offer priced based on perceived value of the experience.
Thank you for being sensitive to the economic times and that hobbyists are also trying to discern value as PS rates have shot through the roof.
I just wanted to add two quick points/suggestions. As well as negotiating on price you could try to negotiate on time. Instead of x$ for a two hour session, you could try x$ for a 1.5 hour session or xdollars for a 45 minute session as opposed to 1hr, etc etc. Also, I know that she is only being used as an example, but Miko Lee only books through Exotica (she made that clear when I saw her).
Many here have come to the defense of Miko Lee being exclusive to Exotica, including the previous Moderator a.k.a. No. 1 Shill. Well I hate to break the news but such thing is not true. Miko use to escort privately for many years through references and still does. Also, Centerfolds Club has always had her listed at $2500/2hrs.
Miko has probably told you and others of her exclusivity with Exotica because she wishes not to burn her breaches with her patron that has her booked year round and that do pay for her expenses. Maybe, once you've met her several times and don't post on the boards about your meetings she might give you a break and provide you with her AOL addy.
LOTR
-- Modified on 1/4/2003 11:03:22 PM
This issue is not just black and white.
A girl and an agency may have a standard deal reference to split. This is not always set in stone, some girls have different splits, and some clients result in a girl receiving a larger split than they normally get.
Over the last year, all I read was how could hobbyist go around the agencies, so they could save money, not be interrupted during their meeting in the last 15 minutes, and not have their personal information given to the agency.
Hobbyist were complaining that their clothing requests were not given to the girls .
Now that some of the girls are allowing direct booking, all I hear is that the rates are GOING THRU THE ROOF.
I may not be the best person to discuss this issue. I started with E2K in August 2000, my rate with the service was 1650 for a credit card, and 1500 cash, for an hour. I have never had my rate reduced. I have always had my airfare and hotel paid for by the service.
If other girls do not have the same arrangement, I'm not aware of it.
Saying that, I have from day one, offered a rate that was less, for less time, such as 30 or 45 minutes. As I know that not all can afford the normal rate.
This was the major reason why in November I decided to only work with E2K, and not to be exclusive with them. I felt as though I was excluding many of my fans, by staying exclusive with the service.
It's not , black and white.
A girl who is out of town working ONLY with the service is on call at any minute, she rarely has a schedule. She is just waiting to be called.
A girl in her hometown, has a life, she must arrange her schedule to accomodate the hobbyist. If she is now booking directly, she now has personal contact with the hobbyist, via e-mails. She can take requests for clothing and such. She might even have 10 e-mails with just one hobbyist.
Any time ,a girl has to spend on securing, confirming/verifying/buying special clothes, and traveling to a meeting, is work related. Which must be included in the equation. These are things she did not have to worry about when working exclusively with a service.
Whether a girl is in her hometown, or on the road, her costs for advertising on a site such as EROS, remains the same, and constant.
I could come up with 100 more little things that make a difference, or cause things to be different. It's not just a "black and white" issue.
You as the hobbyist has to decide what is more important; paying the full price with a service, and all that goes with that.
Paying possibly the same price, but have the avenue to possibly have some dialogue with the girl, request special things etc., and not giving a service personal info.
Or pay a rate that is saving you possibly 100 to 700, based on what SHE is requesting, not what YOU think is correct. There will always be guys who will just book a girl thru a service, or from an ad on EROS, who do not have the time to be on sites such as this one.
The botom line is for the hobbyist to do his homework, use the boards, contact via e-mail those that have seen the particular girl that you are interested in,and see if she is what you are looking for.
It's good to hear from a lady in the business. As well all know, there are many perspectives. Some of us draw on our own experiences and others on what they have been told. Some of my points may have been misleading. I was speaking on information I have received from providers, but realized that I did not explain that some of that info came from non PS providers.
Not all agencies collect the same fee, nor do they pay the same bills, nor do they all have the same screening procedures. The perspective of all sides in this hobby are jaded and bias. The provider's main concern is her profit, while the agency's is their own profit and the client is his satisfaction and his own savings. So to judge "what is fair" turns out to be the same scale as that which beauty is judged... its all in the eye of the beholder.
All I can say is that I've noticed that my enjoyment of the hobby is not what it used to be. The smile on my face after seeing a provider is now lasting only hours (sometimes days) while the thoughts of how I could have better spent the money is lasting months. I never had this problem when quality providers were only $$ an hour. Now I think of how $1500 could have purchased a weekend golf trip at Myrtle beach as opposed to a brief hour spent with a hot babe.
I guess I don't care what the overhead is or who is getting the money. The bottom line is $25/minute is more than I am willing to spend on anyone.
Take care
Thomas Jenkins
Hey Thomas,
Just wanted to let you know that an independent porn star cares as much about your satisfaction as an agency does!
I don't think angecies care all that much... I think they just want your money. So your statement could be construed that independents don't care anymore than an agency.
But based on what I have heard about you Kiki, I'm pretty sure you meant that you care much much more and show it in your sessions. Next time you're in the area of the Windy City, let me know!
I'm glad that you understood that I meant that not all indies or agency are just out for a quick buck. there are those of us that care.
The agencies DO NOT pay for hotel or airfare....each provider is on her own for scheduling & payment of said hotel & airfare...
This is what I thought he meant also. That they were attempting to charge the same as the agencies do.
I am not coming across the issue of the same charges for direct and agency. The only one that I have seen do this publicly is LA Lamman.
I can tell you that Kathy Willets,and Raquel Devine have substantial differences if you go direct to them as opposed to an agency. There are also differences in cities as well. I am not sure where you have come across this.
It is really hard to make a comparison because so few of the ladies that use agencies will book direct and those that do may not care to advertise it or do so selectively.. Just an opinion..
You asked, "I'd like to know what you pay them and I'll shut up.", well I'll tell you from my experience that no matter what someone claims they paid, there will be someone else who claims they paid less--without fail.
-- Modified on 1/2/2003 8:18:07 PM
I've been told by several PSEs that Exotica does a 40/60 split with the girls and Body Miracle takes 30%, so you should be able to negotiate within those guide lines, may be pay the PSE a little more than she would make with the agency, but less than what you would have to pay the agency for the same service.
What I was told by a couple of providers is that the agency takes $500 or $600. Also the agency picks up the hotel. The provider doesn't choose the hotel. The agency does. In addition, many of the providers i've seen actually do both. If you call them direct they will try to work around the agency schedule. My own take on this is simple. If booking direct saves me a good amount of money then obviously I go direct. If the savings is not that much then I just use the agency if I really want to see the provider or I just use someone else. The main point is if you're not saving that much you mind as well use the agency.