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Politics and Religion

Why Americans oppose Obamacare -- they're fucking stupid!! People...
BigPapasan 3 Reviews 1985 reads
posted

...get the government they deserve; that's why Congress is pathetic.  People are uninformed, ignorant or plain stupid.

Jimmy Kimmel asked people whether they preferred the Affordable Care Act or Obamacare.  This is what they said:

Related Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sx2scvIFGjE

no_email536 reads

http://www.baltimoresun.com/health/health-care/bs-hs-health-exchange-demonstration-20130930,0,1106064.stor

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wrps07452 reads

This will turn out to be the worst managed IT project ever. It is just a matter of time before it crashes and has to be shutdown and re-architected. The news media is going to have a field day

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wrps07380 reads

The facts are coming out, article mentions that GAO gave a warning.  

Article about companies that did the project.
http://www.foxbusiness.com/industries/2013/06/21/it-takes-army-tens-thousands-workers-roll-out-obamacare/

Related Link: http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_HEALTH_OVERHAUL?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE...

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dncphil518 reads

I dislike Obama Care because I was sick in Canada and saw their hospital in Quebec. I didn't object to the price I paid as a not-citizen, but it reminded me of the medical offices I use to see as a kid growing up in a medical family in L.A.

Also, I have seen the system in England and France.  I have a lot of friends from Europe - Sweden, Italy, Germany, and France - living in the U.S.  They buy health insurance here because even though they still have their old citizenship, if they get sick they want to be treated here rather than the "free" system back home.

If you know anyone from Western Europe living in the U.S. take a poll and see who would rather have the U.S. system.

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anonymousfun403 reads

"Also, I have seen the system in England and France.  I have a lot of friends from Europe - Sweden, Italy, Germany, and France - living in the U.S.  They buy health insurance here because even though they still have their old citizenship, if they get sick they want to be treated here rather than the "free" system back home”.

Suppose when they get cardiac arrest, they want to go to the nearest cardiac center instead of getting on plane to Sweden

How do you come such idiotic things say?

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dncphil491 reads

It is not the emergency that requires immediate care. Obviously, that is the hear and now where ever here and now is.

However, the vast majority of illnesses are not drop dead on the street ASAP STAT.  They are go to the doctor... You have X and need Y treatment.  

For those illnesses all my foreign friends PAY, PAY and PAy for U.S. insurance to get treatment at Ceders and not London General.

And it aint only them.  

In England there is a phrase "Going private."  It is not something Crazy Dncphil came up with. It means the Wonderful National Health System says you don't get shit. So you go to a private doctor and get treatment.

What I say is not idiotic because it is not emergency care.  They pay for insurance here for long term care that tney would not get at home.  

Now how stupid does that sound?

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willywonka4u648 reads

How about we look at some actual facts instead.

The USA ranks 37th when it comes to the performance of our health care system. If you're male, ages 15 to 60, your probability of dying is twice as high as it is in Australia or Sweden.

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp0910064

Even health outcomes are far worse in the USA than other comparable countries. Or so says the liberal whackaloons over at....

http://www.foxnews.com/health/2013/07/10/united-states-health-outcomes-far-worse-than-other-comparable-nations/

And the cost? Our private for-profit health care system costs as much as 2 1/2 times more than other comparable nations. On average, per capita health care costs are over $8,000 in the USA. The OCED average is $3,000. In fact, health care spending in the USA would be totally average with the rest of the world, if it wasn't for private health care costs. See image below.

We spend over 17% of our GDP in health care costs, while the OCED average is 9.5%.

http://newshour.s3.amazonaws.com/photos/2012/10/02/At_17.6_percent_of_GDP_in_2010_slideshow.jpg

And what do we get for all that extra money? We have 22% fewer doctors per capita than other developed nations. We have fewer hospital beds too. Life expectancy in the USA is also lower.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/2012/10/health-costs-how-the-us-compares-with-other-countries.html

In every category, Canada performs as good, or better than the USA.

http://theincidentaleconomist.com/wordpress/health-outcomes-report-cards-by-country/

Even the overall efficiency of the US health care system is piss poor. According to the World Health Organization, the USA ranks 37th, behind such nations like France, Japan, and Norway, but also "economic powerhouses" like Oman, Monaco, Colombia, Cyprus, Morocco, Chile, and Costa Rica.

See page 18

http://www.who.int/healthinfo/paper30.pdf

In every single category, the costs of our health care system is off the fucking charts, and it's solely for one reason and one reason alone: We have a piece-of-shit for-profit health care system.

http://www.commonwealthfund.org/~/media/Files/Publications/Issue%20Brief/2011/Jul/1532_Squires_US_hlt_sys_comparison_12_nations_intl_brief_v2.pdf

What's worse, is that every single procedure costs leaps and bound more than it does in other countries.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/03/26/21-graphs-that-show-americas-health-care-prices-are-ludicrous/

Our health care system just plain sucks. Compared to all those other nations you like to badmouth, Phil, the USA does worse than all of them.

http://www.fiercehealthcare.com/story/us-lags-behind-wealthy-nations-improving-health-outcomes/2013-07-11

-- Modified on 10/1/2013 8:12:07 PM

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dncphil488 reads

You over look two things:

First, personal experience is often a good guide to life.  Studies can be horrifically biased.  To compare the cost of health care in the U.S. and Italy, to use to random examples, doesn't say much unless you know how much a teacher makes in Rome or NY and what his aparment costs.  If you don't know what the dollar buys, to say that the US costs more for a flu shot is meaningless.

Second, and more importantly, my "personal stories" are not always personal stories.  The phrase "going private" is not a cute little phrase that Nazi Phil invented.  It is a phrase used in England. It means something and it describes a social condition.  If it means that people don't get the "free care" they need, that isn't me.

Finally, it is not MY personal story.  I invited everyone to ask their friends from England and Italy if they have coverage here, why, and where they would prefer to be if they are sick.

If you can't trust our friends, it isn't "Phil's stories"
 

Posted By: willywonka4u
How about we look at some actual facts instead.  

The USA ranks 37th when it comes to the performance of our health care system. If you're male, ages 15 to 60, your probability of dying is twice as high as it is in Australia or Sweden.  

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp0910064

Even health outcomes are far worse in the USA than other comparable countries. Or so says the liberal whackaloons over at....

http://www.foxnews.com/health/2013/07/10/united-states-health-outcomes-far-worse-than-other-comparable-nations/

And the cost? Our private for-profit health care system costs as much as 2 1/2 times more than other comparable nations. On average, per capita health care costs are over $8,000 in the USA. The OCED average is $3,000. In fact, health care spending in the USA would be totally average with the rest of the world, if it wasn't for private health care costs. See image below.

We spend over 17% of our GDP in health care costs, while the OCED average is 9.5%.  

http://newshour.s3.amazonaws.com/photos/2012/10/02/At_17.6_percent_of_GDP_in_2010_slideshow.jpg

And what do we get for all that extra money? We have 22% fewer doctors per capita than other developed nations. We have fewer hospital beds too. Life expectancy in the USA is also lower.  

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/2012/10/health-costs-how-the-us-compares-with-other-countries.html

In every category, Canada performs as good, or better than the USA.

http://theincidentaleconomist.com/wordpress/health-outcomes-report-cards-by-country/

Even the overall efficiency of the US health care system is piss poor. According to the World Health Organization, the USA ranks 37th, behind such nations like France, Japan, and Norway, but also "economic powerhouses" like Oman, Monaco, Colombia, Cyprus, Morocco, Chile, and Costa Rica.  

See page 18

http://www.who.int/healthinfo/paper30.pdf

In every single category, the costs of our health care system is off the fucking charts, and it's solely for one reason and one reason alone: We have a piece-of-shit for-profit health care system.  

http://www.commonwealthfund.org/~/media/Files/Publications/Issue%20Brief/2011/Jul/1532_Squires_US_hlt_sys_comparison_12_nations_intl_brief_v2.pdf

What's worse, is that every single procedure costs leaps and bound more than it does in other countries.  

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/03/26/21-graphs-that-show-americas-health-care-prices-are-ludicrous/

Our health care system just plain sucks. Compared to all those other nations you like to badmouth, Phil, the USA does worse than all of them.  

http://www.fiercehealthcare.com/story/us-lags-behind-wealthy-nations-improving-health-outcomes/2013-07-11

-- Modified on 10/1/2013 8:12:07 PM

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salonpas460 reads

If money is no object then the U.S health system is probably the best health care money can buy. If you happen to be one of the 50+ million uninsured joe's then's it probably one of the worst places to get treated if you are sick.

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salonpas409 reads

In other words you have a simple choice if you're uninsured, you can get treated and go broke or simply try to manage your medical condition without treatment.

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dncphil398 reads

If you are uninsured there are too many options to list. When someone has a heart attack after they are not only stabalized, but the get follow up care.  I had a friend who voluntarily went without insurance for years until she had a horrific accident.  She got care for years for free.

This is not an little Phil Story.  This is what happens.

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salonpas392 reads

Sad but true!

Bankruptcies resulting from unpaid medical bills will affect nearly 2 million people this year—making health care the No. 1 cause of such filings, and outpacing bankruptcies due to credit-card bills or unpaid mortgages, according to new data. And even having health insurance doesn't buffer consumers against financial hardship.

The findings are from NerdWallet Health, a division of the price-comparison website. It analyzed data from the U.S. Census, Centers for Disease Control, the federal court system and the Commonwealth Fund, a private foundation that promotes access, quality and efficiency in the health-care system.

One in five American adults will struggle to pay medical bills this year. A sudden accident or frightening diagnosis can touch virtually anyone, unleashing mountains of bills even on the insured. In fact, medical bills are the leading cause of personal bankruptcy, a last resort after millions of families have drained their savings, maxed their credit cards and even refinanced their homes. To further understand the complexity of health costs, NerdWallet Health has compiled a series of estimates highlighting the strain of medical bills in 2013.

Summary Findings

Estimates for 2013:

56M Americans under age 65 will have trouble paying medical bills

– Over 35M American adults (ages 19-64) will be contacted by collections agencies for unpaid medical bills
– Nearly 17M American adults (ages 19-64) will receive a lower credit rating on account of their high medical bills
– Over 15M American adults (ages 19-64) will use up all their savings to pay medical bills
– Over 11M American adults (ages 19-64) will take on credit card debt to pay off their hospital bills
– Nearly 10M American adults (ages 19-64) will be unable to pay for basic necessities like rent, food, and heat due to their medical bills
Over 16M children live in households struggling with medical bills

Despite having year-round insurance coverage, 10M insured Americans ages 19-64 will face bills they are unable to pay

1.7M Americans live in households that will declare bankruptcy due to their inability to pay their medical bills

– Three states will account for over one-quarter of those living in medical-related bankruptcy: California (248,002), Illinois (113,524), and Florida (99,780)

To save costs, over 25M adults (ages 19-64) will not take their prescription drugs as indicated, including skipping doses, taking less medicine than prescribed or delaying a refill

“In 2013 over 20% of American adults are struggling to pay their medical bills, and three in five bankruptcies will be due to medical bills. While we are quick to blame debt on poor savings and bad spending habits, our study emphasizes the burden of health costs causing widespread indebtedness. Medical bills can completely overwhelm a family when illness strikes. Approx 25 million people hesitate to take their medications in order to control their medical costs. Unfortunately this can lead to even worse financial outcomes as preventative treatments are not rendered and patients end up using expensive ambulance and ER care as their health worsens.

 
http://www.cnbc.com/id/100840148

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dncphil335 reads

First, when Obama ran the first time it was 30 or 35 million not insured.  It is now claimed to be 50

Second, "uninsured" is not the same as "untreated."  If it is 40 million (to compromise) that are "uninsured" you have to count in the fact that medicare and medical are not insured. Nor are 1,000,000 million prisoners.  You have to calculate the number that chose to "go bare."  

Then when you get the "uninsured" you have to ask what happens when you get sick. You go to a hospital and are treated.  

If you think the treatment that "uninsured" gets here is bad, go to England.  My original point was those on the NHS get shit which is why people go "private."  The uninsured there get covered, as they do here, but I promise you that the guy who choreographed the number in the olympics with dancing nurses has never set foot in NHS care.  He goes privat

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GaGambler360 reads

and I can certainly afford  any health care plan I want. I simply CHOOSE not to, which used to be the American way. Unlike liability insurance which is rightfully mandatory to protect others from your/my actions. The only person who would suffer from my self insuring would be myself.

People have been brainwashed to believe that somehow insurance is NOT gambling, when nothing could be further from the truth. Insurance companies are simply bookies, or more accurately and even worse, insurance companies are actually "The House" similar to a casino where they stack the odds in their favor, and only give you the illusion that you stand a chance.

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vamikey415 reads

show up at a treatment center and our society is willing to say 'He doesn't have health insurance so let him just die' then we will always have the freeloaders who don't bother to buy health insurance but show up at treatment centers needing care.  I don't think (and I hope) that we'll never get there, so what really happens is that the large population that chooses to have no health care coverage (mostly because they can't afford it but some because they're young and immortal and would rather spend their money on another beer at Happy Hour) and do have a problem show up at ERs & urgent care clinics & all of us who pay for health insurance get hit for a share of the cost of that care (which is highest at the ER).  What 'Obamacare' is trying to fix is to let many millions of uncovered folks go get reasonably priced coverage through the exchanges so more people are covered and the overall costs eventually go down.  We are currently nearly # 1 on per capita costs for health care but about 35th or so on most health care indicators.  In other words we have the highest costs in the world and really mediocre results.  So until we can reign in the outrageous profits the big pharmaceutical companies, big medical/hospital conglomerates and the health insurance companies rake in every year, we'll never have really effective heath care at a reasonable cost in the US.  The mandate in the ACA merely makes it a choice to pay for health insurance or pay a tax/fee.  This way, those who choose to not buy insurance will at least pay something into the health care system to at least partially offset the cost when they show up at an emergency room with life-threatening injuries.  Today, you & I are paying for saving that guy's life, & I don't know him well enough to know if that's a good choice or not!

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Snowman39454 reads

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