I say to them if this country was like yours you would not come here.
you came here for the opportunities and some of the freedoms we have here.
this is a country were a poor person can grow up to be a rich person or and a famous person
much of this is made possible by capatilism
and past wars and so on
There are two reasons.
Often people who move here forget why. Not remembering what they left or why, they develop a romantic memory.
They are the encouraged to retain their culture and language, which adds to the romance of the Mother COuntry. They can be a Latino from Morelia, with the life style of an American in Los Angeles. They are not told they are "Americans" first. They are told they are "Mexican-Americans."
There was a school in L.A. that on Flag Day told the Hispanics to bring in flags of "their countries," as if they still belonged to the old country. (And it was a liberal agenda that led to this absurdity. The conservatives wanted the Hispanics to relate to the American flag because they were now Americans.)
A related (second) reason is the U.S. does a poor job of explaining to immigrants the nature of U.S. history that made it unique and a country to which they and others wanted to move. (Many native born Americans don't understand either, since it is no longer really taught in school.)
If immigrants were reminded why they came and taught what made it worth coming to, they would feel differently.
This is not limited to Latinos. I know a lot of people from Western Europe who came here for a reason, but they vote in ways that would make the U.S. more like Europe.
I ask why they came to the U.S. and they list all the reasons that I would pound in their heads as a conservative. Then they vote the other way.
People from Eastern Europe understand why they moved here more. They have seen the wonderful State in all its power and generous majesty, which is why they got their raggetty asses out.
Their kids often yearn for the things their parents left because it sounds so good and they don't know what it was really like. The state will give you everything.
Phil, Phil, Phil... could that post be any more xenophobic or insulting to anyone with an ethnic heritage?
I'm Irish-American and I take pride in that fact. I wear green on St. Patrick's day, I root for Notre Dame, my favorite movie is The Quiet Man and I love Van Morrison and the Chieftans, but that doesn't mean I wish America was more like Ireland.
Honoring the traditions and rituals of your homeland or the homeland of your ancestors doesn't mean you don't consider yourself an American first and foremost. In fact, I'd wager to say that most immigrants are the most staunch supporters of this country and the freedoms it's afforded them; and I'd guess that immigrants are probably more conservative in their politics than most native born Americans.
And that's why I believe xfean's post is bullshit to begin with.
First, get this straight. I live in a multi-ethnic area, and love it. I am between little Armenia and Thai town, with it's mandatory Mexican establishments. We also have a Seik (SP?) Temple, and a Chabad House. There are a few other ethnicities in walking distance. And that is why I live here. (It's Hollywood. Major gay influence, if you want to count that for diversity.
There is a difference between the Irish and Italians and Hispanics.
Irish and Italians were never told to bring "THEIR FLAG" meaning the Irisn flag to Flag day. I didn't make that up. It is LAUSD telling Mexicans they are not Americans. It is LAUSD telling Mexicans that no matter how long the live in LA "their flag" has an eagle and snaken not stars and stripes. It is LAUSD telling Mexicans that they should celebrate "their cultura."
No. I want them to feel that they are Americans. The libs want them to keep eating tacos and beans, because that is what "you people" do.
Yes, you are right that initially immigrants are more conservative. BUT OPEN YOUR F'IN EYES. What percent of second generation Latinos are conservative? That is what I was talking about.
There was just a post a week ago about the "Death of the GOP" because of the increasing Latino population. Suddenly, I am a xenophobe because I say the same thing.
HOW MANY SIDES OF YOUR MOUTH DO LIBERALS TALK OUT OF. Last week the increase in Latinos was the deaht of GOP. Now they are more conservative. Gosh, I can't get it right no matter what I say. (Were you the one who posted death of GOP because of increasing Latino? Forget that thread?)
It is not "honoring the traditions" of your homeland that I object to. How knee jerk political correct can you be? I love the multi-ethnic of my area and city. I don't like Mexicans being told the Mexican flag is "their" flag.
And you ignore the basic point that I said. Many people who moved from Western Europe to here want to adopt a health care system closer to Western Europe. It is the same thing that xfean noticed with Latinos.
No. I don't object to anyone who treasures their heritage. I DO TOO. BUT YOU JUST ASSUME ANYONE WHO WANTS PEOPLE TO ASSIMILATE IS A NAZI XENOPHOBE.
My eyes are WIDE open... I wasn't talking about second generation Latinos, I was talking about IMMIGRANTS... second generation Latinos aren't immigrants, they are American citizens. When I said that immigrants were conservative, I was referring to first generation immigrants, not the American born children of immigrants! THAT'S where the "death of the GOP" I referred to is coming from; my statement was not contradictory.
And no, I don't assume that anyone who WANTS people to assimilate is a xenophobe; I DO think that people who INSIST that they assimilate or gets angry when someone chooses not to become "Americanized" is.
You said, "You libs want them to keep eating tacos and beans"... Really? I rarely hear a liberal say "They should go back to their own God damn country" or "If they live here they should learn to speak fuckin' English". Libs don't give a shit if they eat tacos and beans or Beluga cavier; they simply support their choice to do either. It's the conservatives who refer to Mexicans as "beaners", not liberals.
The resistance to assimilation from certain cultures isn't a new thing. WHITE immigrants have for the most part assimilated into American culture, but the majority of non-white immigrants like the Chinese, the Japanese, Indians, Middle-easterners and yes, Hispanics, while embracing America, still cling to their nation of origin and consider themselves natives of that country first, Americans second. That doesn't make them bad people and it doesn't mean that they aren't grateful to live in the U.S.
Now, I have to ask you this question. You said that "Many people who moved from Western Europe to here want to adopt a health care system closer to Western Europe"... Just where did you get that information? Can you cite an example or point me to a URL that supports your claim? And assuming that you can, (which I highly doubt), exactly what's wrong with that?
The fact that you embrace living in a multi-cultural environment is laudable; but if you're white, admit it; you're definitely in the minority of caucasians who feel that way... most would say "There goes the neighborhood".
BTW, you keep lumping me in with liberals... But I'm not a liberal: I'm anti-union, I'm a lifetime member of the NRA ans strongly support the 2nd amendment, I believe in capital punishment and I supported Nixon in 1968... Hardly liberal ideologies. What I am is a Humanist, and while my posts here may seem to be liberal, they are in fact a response to the ultra-right wing religion-based conservatism that has co-opted the republican party.
YOu say you don't assume people who want assimilatiion are xenophobic, but that is how you started your post, with the liberal "you are a xenophobe or sexist or racist or whatever-ist."
Re the Tacos comment - the "learn English" mentaliy is a scream to become American. It is saying, "You are welcome to be one of us IF YOU BECOME one of us."
As to the Western Europeans, no, I am not going to point to a URL. This is a matter of experience, which I know you will discount, but it is still real. The Euro-Crowd that hangs around the Upper West Side or Hollywood is notoriously liberal.
YOu imply that I thought they were "bad" people for wanting to cling to traditions. How much can you make up that I never thought. I gave a long rant about how I enjoy living surrounded by their culture.
I know second generation are citizens. But it is the liberals who do things that encourage them to remain apart, like bi-lingual education. It was the liberal who said "bring your own flag."
Even Cesar Chavez Day is indicative. He was a labor leader. we have a labor day. he was involved in civil rights, and we have a day for that. Why does he need a holiday? Because we have to have a "Mexican" day.
(Before you say it, in theory, Columbus did somehting for all of the U.S. St. Pat didn't which is why that isn't an offical holiday.)
So esse, whatup? You bin hangin' in the barrio? Exactly WHERE is it that you "keep meeting latins", that then take the time to engage you in coversation and end up telling you that they wish America was more like their country?
Actually, that's a myth. Class mobility (a poor person becoming rich) is quite low in the USA. In fact, we have the lowest rate of class mobility in the industrialized world. You're more likely to get rich in France, Sweden, or Germany.
Mexicans come here because we've destroyed the Mexican economy with free trade.
Mexicans were coming here, legally and otherwise, prior to NAFTA.
Where is Charlie445 when we really need him to explain the operations of a worldwide system of capitalist exchange?
the explosion in illegals coming here only picked up after NAFTA and after the late 90's recession.
Oh, you mean we went to war with Mexico and according to the Treaty Of Guadelupe we were able to steal those same lands from Mexico? Oh, ok, now it makes sense!
Life is easier when you ignore history, isn't it??