An earler thread below got me to wondering what are/might be some similarities between Nazism and Zionism.
I've linked below the thread in question.
How about these?
1. both use handy euphemisms for territorial xpansion at the expense of others - "Lebensraum" [Nazis] and "Greater Israel" [Zionists].
2. both were theoretically formulated [in part] as a means of restoring self-respect and a sense of collective dignity to a defeated and humiliated people.
3. both are constantly in conflict with weaker neighbors cursed with fewer, less effective weapons and inept military leadership.
4. both contain the letter "Z" which is one of the least frequently used letters in the Latin alphabet and one of the least frequently occuring letters in the English language.
5. both are political "isms" toally foreign to the US national experience and totally detrimental to the US national interest.
6. the founder of each laid out his thoughts in an influential book - "Mein Kampf" [Hitler} and "The Jewish State" [Herzl]
7. the name of the founder of each ideology beagan with the letter H - Hitler/Herzl.
8. both werfounded by failed artists - Hitler was a failed painter, Herzl was a failed journalist/novelist.
9. the beneficiaries of each ideology are both supposed to be the legatees of some ancient and fabled greatness - the Germans escended from the proto Indo-European group known as the Aryans, the Jews having a "Covenant" with God which makes them his "Chosen People."
10. both enjoyed a small but entremely loyal following in the US.
11. both profited from the work of political front groups in the US which, wittingly or not, attempted to further the respective interests of each. The German-American bund and America First for the Nazis, CAMERA, AIPAC, FLAME, MEMRI, Campus Watch, The Davisd Project, Americans For a Safe Israel, Christians United For Israel and a host of others for the Zionists.
12. the Z from Nazi and the Z from Zionist would, if superimpossed on each other in the correct fashion, graphically bear an impressive resemblance to a swastika [which is actually a hindu symbol].
-- Modified on 1/10/2009 5:19:24 PM
Did Wilbur help you out with these thoughts?
a horse is a horse of course.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_PZPpWTRTU#
wtf mr. ed, you get a hold a bad carrot or sugar cube!!
Public figures all over the world have made the comparisons, people on the left and right,mostly the left them being the biggest antinazis there are. Jews of goodwill have made the comparison as well.
Do any of you people detracting this post by Mr. Ed even use the Internet to get news from sites other than the Internet version of the establishment media (cnn.com,etc).
Mr. Ed you left out the most important and critical and hypocritical aspect of both regimes.
1- Both states base citizenship on race.
They can be citizens and vote. What the fuck is a Jew of goodwill? Guess you would let them escape the ovens?
What do you mean that Israel bases citizenship on race? That's simply factually incorrect. What a doofus! Are Ethiopian jews and Russian jews of the same race?
To that idiot all Jews are of the same race. A hater is a hater.
Yeah I am a hater to read articles and books written by jewish authors and then applying them to my arguments.
Wasn't it Benjamin Disraeli that said "all is race"???
The jewish RELIGION is a handbook of sorts to help the jewish RACE pass down its way of doing things. It is a great misfortune that most of their ways must be so hateful toward everyone else on the earth.
Quit with this, "we are not a race" crap. We have a Jewish history month now in this country, signed into law by Bush a few years ago. Since when did the US recognize religion????
Just stop trying to have it both ways when it is convienent for you and perhaps things would not be so hypocritical and therefore so testy.
You really are very uneducated. There were many prominent racialist theories in the 19th century, but not now. Most people today don't believe that race is even a valid concept.
But, you know, Judaism has never been about race even defined in 19th century terms. Eastern European Jews have nothing in common genetically with Middle Eastern Jews.
And again, what do you mean "having it both ways?" How can a make sense of such a babbler?
How does a religion make one so apt to have this genetic disorder???
I am sure the diesese is a nazi diesese or something, kinda like hurricane Katrina was a "racist" storm.
-- Modified on 1/10/2009 6:47:17 PM
You're proving my point.
Oh I am now am I, I did affirm in another post that I recognize a racial difference in the Sephardic and Azhenazi (Eastern Euro Jews). So all jews in eastern Europe somehow get this ailment through practicing a religion???
Your point has much proving to do, with plenty of lies and subterfuge needed.
My point is proven.
The Eastern Euro jews (the Ashkenazi) are totally genetically different than the Middle Easten Sephardic ones. From all that I have read, the Ashkenazi jews hold little respect for the Sephardic jews.
I am not one that believes race is not a valid concept. The lions share of the world has believed that, or at least allowed policies to exist that have trumpeted this theory and nonsense for over a century, and we are so much the better for it aren't we?? The West is being dragged down to the level of the third world and the third world has only made relatively small improvements.
Equality and political correctness were core concepts of communism and the world will suffer the consequenses if they continue to mock and ignore the realities of nature. The concepts of race not being a valid concept are relatively new, only taken seriously for about 100 years and they are the product of having a media establishment under the control of people opposed to the survival and prosperity of mankind, preach the need to multiculturalise for everyone else but have "jewish state" reserced for the "chosen" race,...indeed.
Having it both ways means what it sounds like. When it fits an argument most jews will say they are a race and then when conditions are different,usually when they are being criticized as a group, they claim they are a religion and not a race....WTF??
-- Modified on 1/10/2009 7:01:27 PM
I suggest you track down Daniel Bell's introduction to the revised End of Ideology. He discusses the re-assertion of ethnic groups in global politics with the breakdown of nation states.
But you're wrong about one thing – it's extremely unlikely that a Jew would say he is part of a race. Tribe maybe, or group, but not race. That sort of racialism is anathema to Jew for obvious reasons.
One of my favorite people alive is Israel Shahak, the jewish author of the book "Jewish History, Jewish Religion". His book is pure %100 truth and he like Norman Finklestein and filmmaker David Cole are individual jews that I admire greatly and think should be inspiration for all jews and citizens of the world.
Stay out of the damn kitchen. You knew T&D was an antisemite when you started the "discussion", storming off in the middle of the argument sure gives the impression that you were losing the debate.
I am no fan of T&D, but if you can't refute his arguments don't get into a debate with him. This issue is obviously important to him and while I disagree with his general attitudes about Jews, I find myself forced to agree with at least some of his positions about Israel.
Dismissing him as a bigot in the middle of an argument is the sign of a loser. Sorry, I am just calling them as I see them. Crying about it on the GD board does nothing to further your case either. If you'll look at the top of the page "this is an UNMODERATED forum" and no place for the thin of skin. I'll repeat "If you can't stand the heat......."
to engage in hate speech? And those who condemn such speech have "thin skin" or are "crying about it? And your solution is that the complainers should all just "shut up" and let Tallslim continue making such comments without opposition?
That is certainly not my view. When he crosses the line, he should be called out- not censored, not attacked as a Nazi, and, most important, not engaged as a discussion partner. That is exactly what BBBmm did.
It really is such a waste. He had made some excellent points. But he has to acknowledge that there is a line he should not cross even on an unmoderated board.
I was labeled a "anti-semite" by this guy after I referenced books, and my admiration of, three individual jews intellectual work which criticizes the work of the worst of the zionists.
He claimed that I was making negative judgements on jews as a people because of their physical appearence. That is his attempt to make me look bad, I don't believe the statement I made bringing up physical appearence issue could be misconstrued by any reasonable person as an attack based on such a stupid premise. Anyone reading the post knows it was an argument used to prove that the jews are not just a religion they are a race.
I never said that jews were "ugly" or anything else. I don't agree with anyone who uses crude stereotypes to classify jews as "long nosed" or any other physical stereotype. I am not going to stop using this sort of argument as the fact is I never started it, it was the delusions of someone who was tired of debating, he could have fared better had I been someone who rested on such stupid arguments as physical appearence being in any way relevent.
With that out of the way, I will consider any other request as far as me not offending anyone. I have said it over and over, I don't advocate any kind of genocide or extermination of any group. I don't believe jews are worthy of being exterminated or whatever you want to assume along those lines. But I also don't think jews should be treated with any preference or special status and should be accountable like any other group and that is not the case when Israel engages in the kind of activity they are right now.
I will not relent in this for any man and if I get banned so be it. TER's P and R board, as I have said before is the best board on the net as far as free flow of thought but I am sure that isn't something enough complaints couldn't change. For the record though, I will consider any request made by you or anyone as my goal on here is not to offend but to argue valid points and issues and not just to get under people's skin.
Whining about it on the GD board is quite another. I have been called a lot worse than anything T&D has said in this thread and didn't whine about it.
BBBmmm is not a newbie, he knew full well what he was getting into. T&D has been condemned by almost everyone on here, myself included. If you hadn't noticed I rarely engage him on his favorite subject. BBBmmm actually got off light, I have seen T&D speak much more hatefully than he did with BBBmmm. I've seen hatespeech, this isn't even close to other posts I've seen here.
apology, don’t we. And I totally agree with you that we should not be complaining about his political views on the GD Board.
But if he is not engaging in hate speech, why you have been calling him a bigot on the GD Board today.(“I didn't forget what a Jew bashing bigot he is”).
If he is engaging in hate speech, then the 20 or so posts you have made on the GD Board charging BBBMM with whining on the wrong board make no sense to me. How TER should treat hate speech on its boards is a legitimate topic for the GD Board.
As for me, I don’t know whether he is a bigot or anti-Semite. I know only that he made anti-semitic remarks in the course of making legitimate points during his debate with some other members. I stopped reading his posts at that point, some two weeks ago.
He may just be insensitive; he may lack any anti-Semitic intent but not realize that the plain meaning of some of his comments are hateful on their face. I don’t know.
But I do know it’s not a free speech issue, it’s not a wrong board issue, it’s not whining – it’s a question of responsible speech, and I just wish he would post with a degree of sensitivity and decency towards all those who have expressed outrage at remarks that appear anti-semitic on their face. When someone responds to your post that “you are a Nazi scumbag,” that’s a pretty good clue that you may have crossed the line.
Any American puppet who doesn't recite that exact phrase in front or behind the word Israel is ripe for an apology session.
Converts are not treated as legit jews, gimme a break, and the "Ethiopian jews" are routinely degraded as not being true jews.
Is the Law of Return not based on racial factors, come on jews base things on race not religion, quite with the goddamn charade.
You can't debate with deciet, I can be happy in knowing that alot of people are finding the truth despite the roadblocks.
Could you explain the story linked below as being something not unlike the injustice of the South Africa apartied government and pre 60's America segregation system??? How is this equal citizenship???
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull&cid=1228728113827
That's not CNN but it is a Israeli based paper.
Bet you have some before pictures pior to the dehorning ceremony. What do Jew horns go for on the black market?
Converts are legit Jews. And why did you put Ethiopian Jews in parentheses.
The issue isn't whether you are or are not an Antisemite. The issue is that you're wrong.
0 intellect! there are more clowns in a vw bug than you have coherent thoughts in your head!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5e2yLuIZ4qY&feature=related#
Tallslim + Mr. Ed + Shirley Phelps.... what a 3 sum!
-- Modified on 1/10/2009 7:27:21 PM
So basically you think that someone who thinks that the world's ills are caused by one nation state advocating the acceptance of homosexuality is right in the same league as those who don't adore Israel, those who believe in the concept of race (as I have said before believe in the concept does not mean one believes in supremacy,etc),and those who believe that jews are a part of a unique racial group??
Fred Phelps is truly on the fringe, not many think like he does while many people believe in the concepts I do. Not that quantity means anything as far as determining right and wrong but your really kidding yourself if you think its just me and a few other people.
No one has said anything about the article I linked about recent discrimination of Arabs at a Tel Aviv school and only one response which is a tired dismissal of Tay-Sachs.
But here is another that might be hard to find a solution for that doesn't factor in race being present in Jewish identity. You can't draw a picture up on a black board of a Christian, a Baptist, or a Catholic. But one could draw a stereotypical picture of a Jew (long nose, other features) and one would conclude that the picture is of a jew.
Well you have already made a joke,called me names,(just in this thread) now what????
The sad thing is your defending this like it is as if that I think jews should be gassed because they are a race and just not a religion. Can you honestly claim, be honest, that you have never heard jews refered to as a race except by people you percieved as being those who wanted to "exterminate the race".
Again Benjamin Disraeli seemed to get it, he did claim that "all is race".
I never come over here, and I gotta be sure not to come again. But this statement:
"But one could draw a stereotypical picture of a Jew (long nose, other features) and one would conclude that the picture is of a jew."
Is absolutely beyond the pale. I don't think TER is a free speech zone. It is a series of moderated boards. This person is a virulent anti-Semite. Why is he tolerated? It doesn't even look like he's moderated to avoid garbage like this.
Quit acting like you are that offended. You obviously don't come over here much or you would know that I don't make any assumptions on the character,nature,or motivations of jews because of their stereotypical look. Someone who discriminates against jews for that reason would be truly ignorant and a legitamate jew hater. The fact is only a very small minority of people critical of the behavior of some jews and/or Israel consider physical appearence to back up any argument despite the efforts of the media to make it appear that this is indeed the case.
You might note I did say stereotypical. I was just making a point but you have obviously taken it, or wanted others to view it, as me saying jews are bad or should be viewed differently because of their physical appearence.
That sir is garbage and it is motivated by someone who is obviously not used to people who have the guts to stand up for their beliefs. You labeled me as "uneducated" and then after I made reference to source material critical of zionism and Israel,some the work of jews, you make a call for me to be banned,etc. Weak but typical.
right wing agitator. There is no god.
but it is drivel. About your statement that "there is no God". I am inclined to agree with you, but I don't feel obliged to repeat it every five minutes.
all good humor must contain at least an element of truth.
yeah,it's really too bad it wasn't understood, and as soon as tallslim26 posted in it, it suffered massive collateral damage from which it was impossible to recover.life will have to go on however.
but i'm sure you understood why i created this alias just for you.