From the frontlines:
I have been in Philadelphia (aka the battleground) since Saturday AM canvassing and volunteering for the Obama campaign. I thought I’d share an experience that will have an impact in my life.
While hanging door-hangers in an upper middleclass neighborhood I encountered some McCain supporters. As the sun set, I was walking my final culdasack (sp?) of the day. Two white, very young couples were sitting on the tailgate of an SUV and when they saw me they immediately were fixated. After I hung my first two hangers one of the men yelled out to me “You shouldn’t be here- alone- you n####r lover” and began to walk toward m a bit.
For the first time in my life, I felt physically threatened in a real way. I stood my ground and continued to place literature on Obama supporters’ doors, as the foursome followed close behind me. I was panicked and trying to get thru the area as quickly as possible without being harmed. As I was jogging between houses I heard them say a few phrases but mostly I was so worried that all I could hear was my own heart beat. “you should be ashamed”, “you n####r lover”, “you are pathetic”, etc…at one point one man was daring the other to do something to me (thankfully I didn’t catch what he was suggesting).
While I can appreciate that at least they were honest about why they wouldn’t vote for Obama, unlike many who cite fictitious rational, I am very sad that this racism still persists in our country.
Melanie
-- Modified on 11/4/2008 3:42:57 AM
-- Modified on 11/4/2008 3:44:09 AM
A most unfortunate occurrence, but I personally I admire the courage you displayed in continuing your task. As an avid supporter of Obama and someone intimately familiar with that type of behavior, I appreciate your efforts. Thank you...I think we'll see our efforts pay off when tomorrow rolls around. Thanks again.
Maybe they were people who want to hold on to their guns, their religion, their jobs and their identity.
Obama pissed off a lot of people in PA. He does not deserve to be handed Pennsylvania.
Stop whining, and get over it.
They were part of the republican base- ignorant, racist assholes who possess neither the intellect nor temperament to engage in actual discourse.
The republican party made a deal with the devil when they decided to pander to the racists and religious nuts in this country. Now, they are reaping what they sowed- today, we'll see a strong repudiation of almost everything the republican party stands for.
Hopefully, the republican party will either learn from their mistakes or wither away and be replaced by a party that lives in the 21st century instead of the 19th.
At least they didn't hide behind an alias.
Secondly, Obama has done a fine job of dividing the people of PA.
Read my original comments, and try to remember what Obama said about Pennsylvanians.
Stop the BS about an alias. Most everyone uses an alias on this board. Get over it.
Why don't I believe her story? Because her and her pal have been stirring the racism pot for weeks.
-- Modified on 11/4/2008 9:16:02 AM
She always writes clear and truthful. Certainly alot of times its blunt and many disagree, but she is NOT a lier. Why would anyone accuse her of this?
Its possible that she misunderstood the situaion, since she was in a vulnerable situation in both being in an unknown neighborhood at the end of day, and feeling probibly nervous about it. Its possible that these guys were drunk and just bastards, and maybe thought she was cute and said something stupid to her as a weird way of flirting. When she fled so fast, maybe they took it to the next "Fun and drunk" level, and followed her still calling after her.
My opinion is that is the case. That they were just drunk idiots who were flirting in their own fucked up way. However, that was still a horrible situation she was in, if it hadnt been about the election, they would have said something else, but I think overall, they were just sick fucks flirting with her.
Sorry to hear about this Melanie. Next time, you should not go alone I think. They wont pick on two girls as easily.
-- Modified on 11/4/2008 9:37:38 AM
Here's a couple more for you.
1. The check is in the mail
2. It was like that when I found it
3. I won't come in your mouth
Listen fuckbag, and I say that oh so affectionately because I feel no need to hide behind an alias to actually express myself, I too spent time volunteering for Obama's campaign and on more than one occasion encountered exactly that same behavior in Virginia.
What Obama said about Pennsylvanians is that when let down by their politicians who do nothing to address their needs, they cling to god and guns because they can rely on those things. His error was in the word 'cling' but he had a perfectly valid point: people rely on what they know when their politicians let them down. He was observing the dynamics of rural Pennsylvanian politics.
But you won't see any talking heads or pundits talk about the issue that way. No, it's alot more interesting to blow everything out of proportion and actually threaten people with physical violence than to actually have a conversation.
Frankly, for all their rhetoric, I have never seen Democrats of any breed threaten or carry out physical violence against Republicans, yet we have seen numerous examples of said violence against Democrats, Obama supporters specifically, this election cycle.
Yeah, how convenient indeed there Dick Pod.
She has been race baiting for weeks, so before you give her a WK seal of approval, go back to her other posts.
I heard what Obama said when he said it. Don't give me your liberal twist. I don't buy it.
I don't particularly care what she's said on this board. Nobody deserves to be treated like that when engaging in the most American of civil duties.
"Liberal twist." How about instead of immediately choosing to be offended by something - ANYTHING - and jumping on the first thing that comes along to justify your anger towards a Democrat, you actually spend some time rationally thinking about what a person said and why oh why they would have said it. And you did NOT hear what Obama said, apparently - because my description was a repeating of Obama's own words - the ones that came right before the "cling to god or guns" sentence. You know, the words that not a single pundit or newspaper bothered to repeat or reprint, because they would have made the entire issue moot. It's much easier to make a huge issue about something when you take it completely out of context.
Yes, and you have taken Obama's words out of context.
I will repeat for you, " I don't believe her" (TRB).
She has been race baiting, and this is just another bait.
Let me also clarify something for you. I don't believe in any type of intimidation or interfering with anyone's right to vote or speaking their mind. That would be un-American.
I am not angry with Democrats. I do get angry at deceit, lies and stupidity. That is my right.
"I am very sad" Melanie's ignorance "still persists in our country."
That's disgusting. Look - support who you want as a candidate - but McCain himself would NEVER condone that sort of disgusting behavior, especially towards a defenseless young woman all alone.
As a Republican and a McCain supporter, I am very sorry that this happened to you. Race should not have anything to do with who gets elected president. Rather, I have always believed that we should elect the best man or woman for the job. Hopefully that will happen today.
May the best candidate win.
People who nag are annoying, but as to loving them, it would depend on the donation.
I'm glad not to be the only fan of Matt and Trey.
The two party system has led to increasingly bitter partisan division. Under stress, people say and do things that they may not otherwise, and I think this is especially true of the partisan nastiness that is dividing many of us that otherwise have a great deal in common.
That being said, racism is abhorrent. Will it motivate some votes? Almost surely.
And finally, I'm glad you got out of the situation in one piece, and am sorry that you were treated in this way.
And, thank you for actively participating in the democratic process.
Cheers
Gregory
I have no doubt whatsoever that some people will choose to vote for McCain for no other reason than their objection to the idea of a black man being president. This is unfortunate.
However, the number of votes cast on behalf of McCain's white skin will in no way compare to the number of black voters who have never given a rat's ass about politics before, never voted, and don't even understand what Obama's policies are - but who will be voting for him today for no other reason than the color of HIS skin.
Both are deplorable. Both are a slap in the face to Martin Luther King's Dream. MLK envisioned a day when a man would be judged by the content of his character, not the color of his skin. When 97% of all blacks vote for the guy who looks like them, BECAUSE he looks like them, that is just as racist as the redneck who shows up at the polls just to vote against the "n*****r".
..that says "I'm not voting for McCain because he's white" and you'll be on your way to having a valid comparison with someone calling an Obama supporter a "Nigger lover." The reasoning is ridiculous.
a preference against the other race. Whether an epithet is used to describe the other race is irrelevant.
Did you ever notice how this PC crap fails every reasonable test of classical or symbolic logic?
...it's a desire to see a symbolic transcendence of the inequality faced for hundreds of years. You generally seem to be a pretty logical individual, so it surprises me that you could ignore such entrenched and almost indelible history - which has spilled over into the present. It really isn't that black and white (surprisingly enough).
Symbolically, the election of an black president is a powerful thing for black people AND this country. I've spoken with numerous white people who've expressed this same desire. They too acknowledge the historical significance of a black man being elected to this office ...so would you classify their preference as racist so readily? It isn't nearly as simple as you're making it. You need to rethink your position on this.
-- Modified on 11/4/2008 7:11:56 AM
but it seems to me that we're just on a different page here. I was socialized in the US military. I learned to value someone by their merit as an individual and as a soldier/sailor/airman/marine, not by their skin color. My best friend in all the world, who introduced me to the sport of kings, was an African American. Unfortunately he is no longer with us. But when I think of him, I don't really remember his skin color being any different from mine, but rather the competent sailor, patriot, and friend. A statistically disproportionate number of my lovers have been "minorities" - a term that makes not much sense to me because I think more in a world persepctive than that of a provincial American. This is natural, I guess, having been born in Germany, lived here for 7 years before joining the military, and having lived in CONUS for only 6 years since until 2007. So, If I demonstrate any ignorance of racism in an American political context, this may be the reason.... however, at the end of the day, the PC formula of racism seems to me to fail a fundamental test of logic. You simply cannot say a=b but b does not =a. This bit of saying that racism can only be exercised by the powerful against the minority troubles me. I don't see it as group against group, but as a failing of the human moral character, to be changed by education, experience, and persuasion, not by politics. This is not to say that I do not support political solutions to institutional racism for I do. However, these do not address the core issue that drives the problem in the first place.
-- Modified on 11/4/2008 7:33:26 AM
-- Modified on 11/4/2008 10:35:30 AM
I think it's impossible for people who haven't grown up around people like I have here in the rural south to understand how deep-seated racism is in the US. Not everywhere and not with everyone, but that is most definitely the case with millions of Americans.
It's no longer socially acceptable (except in the right circumstances like when one is surrounded by other like minded racists) to call blacks n#####s so code words are used. Like my own US representative calling the Obamas 'uppity'.
My bro-in-law, for instance, believes that black people evolved from apes and white people were created by god. I grew up with people who wouldn't touch blacks or drink after them. Most of those people haven't changed all that much.
Of COURSE it's going to fail a test of logic if what you consider logical is the absense of racism. Ironically enough, you would need to account for illogical policies and behavior against black people to draw a logical conclsuion about the overwhelming support of a black candidate BY black people. You would be contradicting your idea and ideals of equality if you would explain the behavior of a majority of black Americans as racist. Logic would force you to explore the possibility that there is a deeper cause for this resounding unity - and if a black person explains that to you in clear and unambiguous terms, it doesn't make sense to resist that explanation if you're an objective and open-minded individual.
You and I have discussed how deeply the divisions and cultural disparities of the US are before. This is a natural response to overcoming those disparities. I would again force you to look a little deeper when coming to a conclusion about black support of Obama. You're leaving quite a bit of logic out of the equation if racism is your answer.
so perhaps we are not communicating. What I am saying is that white non-support for Mr Obama on the basis of race is not fundamentally different. I understand that you will not agree with this.
It sounds more and more to me as though this point is a dogmatic one for you. It has been observed that someone who wants to share his religious beliefs with you probably does not want you to do the same. I find that conversations based on one or more a priori are usually fruitless.
Thant having been said, my experience of serving all around the world suggests to me that the US one of the most politically advanced societies on earth with respect to institutionally eradicating racism. The progress of the last 50 years is undeniable. And this will culminate in a significant number if not a majority of white Americans voting for a black man for president. This side of the equation should not be lost in the conversation.
As far as the history of racism in the US this is a factor in the discussion. My family, who were socialists and descendants of one of the old titled families was nearly wiped out by the NASDP/NAZIs. I can identify with the way in which an historical legacy colors the viewpoint.
Beyond that, I don't believe that this conversation is going anywhere... so - Peace be to you.
-- Modified on 11/4/2008 11:20:06 AM
When someone as "reasonable" as you realizes what PC crap all this is, it should be obvious to all but the most obtuse among us.
Conroy is one of those people that will never stop fighting the battles of the '60's. He is so busy feeling sorry for himself and "his" people he is blinded to the fact that the war has already been won, regardless of who wins today.
I'd call him a racist if he made the same generalizations you have about black people...yanno if he'd said something like "black people are only unified in their call for entitlements." LOL...Speaking of obtuse.
You know, now I kind of see why you find non-aliases so appealing. It does enable us to point out the more idiotic amongst us. Sit the fuck down...
...when you discount the unity of black people as reverse racism - simply looking at the numbers. You discount all the inequality and oppression that would lead to such unity. Yes it exists, and THIS is what motivates black people to cast a vote for another black candidate. This is an assessment you aren't qualified to make - and invoking MLK doesn't change the idiocy and hidden bigotry of your reasoning.
Black people as a group have always voted overwhelmingly Democratic anyway, so this is nothing new. He's also running against an inferior, simple-minded, and erratic candidate, so the choice isn't that fucking difficult.
"Just as racist." How moronic. You have no point here, but that's not new. Every one of your posts thus far has been a result of you having your head hidden in your gelatinous ass. Given the hideous, frightful appearance of your face, however, I think I'd prefer it stay there, Mrs. Jack-O-Lantern. What a fucking idiot.
at your personal attack on Sin's appearance, Conroy. That seems unlike you.
-- Modified on 11/4/2008 6:59:58 AM
Ahhh. That explains it!
I have tendencies toward dickness myself sometimes.
It comes unsheathed from time to time. I don't walk around with it drawn, though. I'm sure you understand.
Conroy has made personal attacks on virtually everybody that has ever disagreed with him.
The attack on Sin's appearance is completely in character for him. He is an angry, bitter man that lashes out at everyone who doesn't believe in his "crusade" against the white man.
Nah. You know what? I'll bet that you and Conroy would get along great in a setting that isn't as supportive of confrontation.
Angry and bitter? I don't see it.
Conroy is way too prejudiced for me. He suffers from the libby mentality that always blames others.
Angry and bitter suits Conroy to a tee. Just look at the number of personal attacks he has made over just the last couple of weeks.
Gamb gets a little emotional when it comes to me. He's even shared the details of his personal life with me (who his friends are, what type of person he really is, etc) to convince me that I'm all wrong about him. I haven't really felt the need to reciprocate, though, so he's naturally a bit upset because I haven't bared my soul to him. Poor fella. He'll get over me soon enough. Fuck. Almost sounds like he wants to date me. lol.
LOL Its not unlike him at all. Every post he's ever addressed to me has been insulting. Of course, every post he addresses to ANY conservative has been insulting. However, being a woman, I get the extra added bonus of sexist epithets such as "sweetheart" and "darling" added in.
The good news though, is that I don't wear my vagina on my sleeve the way Conroy wears his race on his sleeve. So I'm fine with him referring to me as darling or sweetheart. One can only conjecture his response if I referred to him as "boy" 
Well, given the uncalled for insults, your post is hardly worth responding too. But every once in a while, I like to engage in a character building exercise. Today, wasting my words on a racist seems to be an excellent opportunity to build character, so here goes.
I don't know where you get the nonsensical notion that I discount the inequality and oppression that litters this nation's history. I certainly do not. There is a difference though between unity and blind following stemming from ignorance. I made no argument against someone - of any race - voting for the candidate they believe will best lead this country. My post referred specifically to blacks who are voting today for NO reason other than the color of Obama's skin. Ask them about Obama's tax plans, you'll get a blank stare. Ask them about Obama's thinking in regard to foreign policy, and you will get no reply. Ask them about Obama's achievements, or a brief summary of his resume, and you get little more than "Well, he's a senator". THIS is a problem.
By your logic, I should have been an all out supporter of Hillary because she is a woman. Sure, I'd love to see the first woman elected President. But I'm not going to support a woman who's politics I disagree with. Furthermore, if I didn't have enough information about her to KNOW if I agree with her or not, I'm going to make the effort to LEARN something about her, so that I will know if she is actually qualified to do the job, and I will know that she actually supports the policies I believe in. If I don't think she's qualified, I am not going to vote for her period. I don't care if she's a woman.
Here is an earth shaking idea for you. It is time for black people to put aside the security blanket of history and start thinking of yourself as American first, black second. I know, its a radical idea isn't it? I doubt if you can, but when the day comes that blacks as a community are able to do so, then perhaps we so-called 'racists' will have a bit more respect for you. After all, the argument that blacks are oppressed in this country is going to take a death blow when Obama is inaugurated as the President of the United States.
What a little piece of shit you are. You whine about other people talking about someone's reviews of a tranny being made fun of, and turn around and pull out personal attacks like this. You are a racist fucking piece of shit. Have a nice day.
Truth hurts doesn't it?
That does not make her a racist, it makes her honest.
-- Modified on 11/4/2008 11:39:57 AM
Pardon me once again everyone, I couldn’t hold my temper.
that you're able to so easily understand the motivations of people who have been enslaved, lynched, disenfranchised, denied equal opportunity for education and economic gain, etc. for all but a single generation of this nations history.
Joy and excitement at finally being able to vote for racial equality in the US should not be confused with racism. Racism implies that one group is being denied something unfairly. You really think blacks in the US are being unfair to the republican party?
As for MLK's thoughts, read Where Do We Go From Here and see if you think he would be dismayed. Like the vast majority of white Americans, you have little idea what his political and social ideas were beyond the struggle to achieve racial equality.
Actually, yes I do understand the impulse to vote for a candidate because he is the first black candidate. I understand the impulse of some women to support Hillary Clinton simply because she is a woman. There is no denying the excitement one must feel to see the opportunity to make history, and finally see the greatest of all barriers shattered, nor the desire to be part of helping to shatter that barrier.
I am saying that despite the made for Hollywood emotional impact of electing the first black president, there is still the inconvenient fact that once elected, that first black president must LEAD this nation. On his shoulders will rest the awesome responsibility and authority of the office of the President of the United States. There are a million reasons to vote for a particular candidate, or to not vote for a particular candidate. Of all the million reasons, skin color is perhaps the worst reason of all.
Howard Stern sent one of his lackeys out a week or two ago to do some 'man on the street' interviews. Now lets keep in mind first that I am sure that the lackey interviewed a few dozen people, and from those chose to air only those who fit what he was looking for. Still, the results were comical, but rather disturbing as well. He aired interviews with about half a dozen black men who said they planned to vote for Obama. The interviewer pitched several issues to them and asked them if they agreed with them or not. All agreed that yes, Obama is right, and they agreed with what the interviewer told them. The problem was, the plans were taken directly from McCain's website. So basically we learned two things. First they obviously had no idea what Obama has been saying in his stump speeches for the past several months. Secondly, it apparently doesn't matter what Obama says, they were prepared to agree with anything the interviewer threw at them, if they thought it was Obama's position.
This is not what you could in any way call an "informed" vote. THAT is the issue I'm getting at here. If you know a bit about Obama, know what his tax plans are, know what his views on foreign policy are, etc, and you agree with them and intend to vote for him because you agree with him, that's fine. That is the way it is supposed to work. What I find disturbing, and the point I'm making here, is the fact that today millions of Americans will be casting a vote for a candidate with little or no idea who they are voting for. They know he's black, and that is why they are voting.
Let me put it another way. Black people have been oppressed, disenfranchised, and discriminated against. Everyone knows that is true. So have women. For nearly all of mankind's history, women have been raped, mutilated, murdered, bought and sold as property, discriminated against, held back, you name it. To this day, women in some parts of the world are sentenced to a lifetime of abuse for committing the crime of being born with a vagina. That doesn't mean I should vote for the first woman to come along though. Just because a woman is running as a candidate, doesn't entitle her to special consideraton. Affirmative action simply cannot apply to the presidency. Because after election day, that person now has to LEAD. That person has to do the job, and in doing that job they have the ability to affect millions of lives at home and around the world. It is insane to hand that amount of power and responsibility to anyone just because they are the right gender or the right skin color.
That's all I'm saying. If you agree with Obama, go vote. If you don't know anything about Obama other than his skin color, either stay home on election day, or take the time to learn a little before you cast your vote. God gave us all critical thinking skills. My only point is that we should be making use of those critical thinking skills before we step into the voting booth.
it's OK for blacks to vote for Obama because of ethnic identification? How do you know what percentage of black voters are voting for Obama solely because of the color of his skin? Like me, they could just be more discerning than the white folks voting for McCain and see that Obama has proven himself to be more intelligent, articulate, a better organizer, a better 'decider', cooler under stress, etc. than McCain.
From where I sit, those people who can't see that are often blinded by the darkness of Obama's skin.
Also, I think it's fairly indicative of your predisposition that you attribute such ignorance to the black voters voting for Obama but don't question at all the critical thinking of those whites voting for McCain.
They were exhilarated at the prospect of being equal with Whites. So, in other words, they were thrilled about the prospects of benefit to their race. By what you're saying, that should be racist.
In no way should the prospect of being equal be called racist, whether it's only a feeling or not. This is what's thrilling Blacks to vote in record numbers: the feeling that they will be equal with Whites.
Also, racism is defined by its hostility to another race. Working against White sentiments of superiority and entitlement-- even in their unconscious forms, is not racism. Working to make Whites your inferiors or treating them generally as your inferiors is racist.
Suspicions or fears toward another race are also not racist. If one is convinced that AIDS was somehow developed as a means of genocide against Blacks is wrong, but given the Tuskegee experiments, it's easy to see why they'd get that impression.
Sometimes certain Whites are wrongly called racists, but there is an unconscious sense of entitlement among Whites. Also, there's a very thin skin about suspicions and anger in the Black community, which they often mis-characterize as racism.
Just sayin'. Voting for someone based on race is fucked up, but... stalking around women and making threatening comments simply because they are canvassing in the "wrong neighborhood" is an entirely different story.
I know the boys in my neighborhood would NEVER harass an innocent young woman. Of course, most of the McCain supporters are too scared of the BIG SCARY BLACK PEOPLE to even show their faces here. But those who do are never treated in such a way.
but a young woman of caucasion descent would have to worry a lot to worry about than being called "whitey lover" if caught campaigning for McCain in Compton, or Watts, or Harlem or on any street in the country named MLK blvd.
If you deny this simple truth than you are truly delusional.
Your story stirred my emotions. I felt empathy for you as well as a sense of kindred spirits. I'm angry and I wished that I were with you during the ordeal as I believe this would not have happened in my presence. It appears these bullies gained courage because you were alone.
Sadly, you have experienced just a bit of the racism that some experience throughout their entire lives. It has been interesting to watch how racism has manifested during this political contest. One only has to view the responses to your original post to see what I mean.
Whether you believe that black people in this country have had to deal with racism or not, one would hope that all could empathize with the thoughts and emotions of a woman threatened by a mob for exercising her rights as you were in this case. However, you see responses above and maybe some below by now that demonstrate the same heartlessness and self-centeredness of those whose intention was to strike fear in you in the first place.
These less than empathetic responses may be just a smidgeon of what people who have had to face racism, sexism, and other forms of discrimination in this country have had to deal with all their lives. For those who argue that "reverse-discrimination" is the new problem, I say, welcome to the crowd. Now, you know what we've been trying to tell you all along.
One last message to the good guys that read this board. Vote with your ballet today. Vote with your wallet tomorrow and beyond.
-- Modified on 11/4/2008 7:01:01 AM
But it isn't unexpected. The racist undercurrents of this election might surface anytime. I'm sorry you were directly terrorized. What might happen is scary.
-- Modified on 11/4/2008 12:54:12 PM
... shameful that it is being written about and discussed in the USA in 2008.
How shameful that the most advanced country on the planet is still despoiled by the ugliness of bigotry. You'da thunk we'd have learned by now that the color of one's skin does not in any way reflect the QUALITY of one's soul.
This election campaign certainly proved one thing: America is a melting pot of bigotry and prejudice. We are doomed to continue repeating the mistakes of history as long as we allow petty hatreds to continue fueling the engine of this country.
Using this forum as a microcosm, look at how ugly and racist it has become; I mean, there will always be a funtime69 or a Tallslim to espouse the Nazi point of view from behind their white hooded monitors... like sewage, they are unavoidable; but my old colleague and arch-nemesis-in-all-things-Israel XiaomingLover1 is a card-carrying Likudnik compared to the bigots who have manifested in P&R throughout the last 8 months.
The fact we as Americans can even tolerate the use of prejudicial hot buttons in our national elections, let alone ENCOURAGE their use, is shameful.
It tells me we are not going to remain the driving power of this world for much longer. The partisan chasm in this country is being wedged so far apart by hate and bigotry we are splitting at the seams, and the breakup is inevitable.
Regardless of who wins the campaign, it is time for this country to wake up, and find a middle ground we can ALL tolerate.
To do anything else, will lead to an American genocide.
Vote Early, Vote Often. I did. And so did I.
-- Modified on 11/4/2008 10:28:37 AM