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Politics and Religion

I'm glad somebody finally said it
Officer Cartman 59 Reviews 14874 reads
posted

"Here's the problem we have right now, Mr. Speaker. We have a leadership deficit. I keep hearing about the President's got a plan. The President's offering balance. The President hasn't offered a thing yet. Nothing on paper. Nothing in public. Leading on reporters at press conferences is not leadership. Giving speeches according to the CBO is not budgeting.  Rep. Paul Ryan (R-Wis.)

We haven't had an approved budget in over 800 days and nobody publicly has seen Obama's "balanced" approach to the deficit.  Yet the country is debating as if Obama has actually presented something tangible.

PitchingWedge1201 reads

to get re-elected is to not do or say anything.

He's following that plan perfectly.

Paul Ryan is one of the few people in Washington who makes any sense. And that is amazing since he comes from that God-forsaken state of Wisconsin!!  LOL!

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Priapus532023 reads

OC, if you wanna criticize BHO on the debt ceiling ( which is certainly justified in certain cases ), you must quote someone CREDIBLE.

Tell ya-----in regards to the '12 election, the far right are behaving like lemmings going off the edge of a cliff-------

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PitchingWedge1107 reads

Ryan has proposed to make moves to SAVE Medicare, not END it.

You must have been going back for your third trip through the buffet line when his proposal hit the newswire . . . . .

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Officer Cartman1250 reads

Yes it is tangible.  It is an actual plan put on paper to be evaluated, measured, and debated.   What are we actually debating with Obama?  This is an extremely important issue and Obama is treating it like a pissing contest.

PS- What part of Ryan's statement I posted did you disagree with?

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BreakerMorant1090 reads

posts below are also all true. Good post. Obama has offered nothing. All he does is spend money.

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Priapus531876 reads

And what are the House GOP Tea party & Ryan offering in the debt ceiling debate ? How about compromise ?
That's what adults do in the political arena & what's going on in the Senate with the GOP & the Dems.

Instead of looking back ,whining & casting blame,
everyone should hope that both political parties reach some sort of agreement before we arrive at an economic armageddon.

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BreakerMorant998 reads

stated in an honest debate the choices we have to make as country if we want to balance the budget and save medicare. I would begin by eliminating the Departments of education, Energy etc. Department of Homeland Security and their myraid of agencies TSA, would also come into question.

However, you like Obama have not stated any ideas on how to balance the budget other than raise taxes on the rich. Which begs another question how can you support a liar such as Obama.

He promised liberals to close Gitmo- nada.
He promised to withdraw from Iraq- we are still there.
He promised no military intervention without congressional approval- he lied. Libya.
He promised to end the Bush tax cuts and Obama bended like a drunk picking up a quarter.

All Obama has done is blame others for problems.

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Priapus53984 reads

I said that was the Dems position in the debt ceiling debate. You can archive my 19 months of posts here & I have NEVER advocated raising taxes on this board. Give it a try unless you're too lazy to do so.

As for restoring taxes to Clinton era levels ( when the country enjoyed unlimited prosperity before the advent of the Anti-Christ, George w Bush ) he didn't have the votes in Congress to do that, so that's HIS fault ?

And GWB didn't lie about WMD's in Iraq ?-----LOL !

Like most progressives, I'm quite disappointed in some of of BHO'S broken promises that you listed; hell---I might not even vote for next time. But you don't think GWB didn't break promises either ?------LOL !

Lastly, BM, your out of touch far right proposals to balance the budget by eliminating
several governement agencies will never fly, so best to shitcan those ideas & come up with viable alternatives.



-- Modified on 7/20/2011 10:30:02 PM

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BreakerMorant1287 reads

either raise taxes i.e. revenue or decrease spending. So what are you offering other than the same old, same old with all it's  George W. Bush fault. I say eliminate various gov't agencies. Congress can also raise age eligibility rates for social security etc.

On other topic which you raised name one George W. Bush promise he broke:

President Bush identified the three axis of evil. He promised to take action and he did. President Bush promised to fight AIDS and he did. He promised you are either with us or against us and he meant it. He promised no quarter for evil-doers and succeeded. Disagree with Bush's policies all you want. He did not lie. Obama has. Besides President Bush is not running for relelection, Obama is. Why talk about GWB?

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Priapus531431 reads

I suggested that here earlier.

As for GWB not lying, how about WMD's in Iraq ?--And he identified 3 evil countries ? Like we didn't know that earlier ? BFD ! I would be surprised if he could find those countries on a map !  And he "promised no quarter for evil doers" ?! Didn't Superman also say that ?----LMAO !

BM , you have to be the most unintentionally funny person on this board.

Lastly, speaking of "No Quarter", I MUCH prefer the Led Zeppelin version to your daffy Biblical allusions.

Related Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKOngTfTMs0

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BreakerMorant1958 reads

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inicky46798 reads

Bush didn't lie about WMDs in Iraq?  LMAO!  I guess it depends on how you define "lie."  (Maybe he was like Clinton, who had several definitions for "is."). He knew, or should have known, that the Cheney crowd was ginning up false "evidence" to prove Saddam had WMDs.  And, guess what?  There weren't any.
Re "the three axis of evil" that he took action against.  What exactly did he "do" against North Korea?  He tried strictly diplomatic means that totally failed.  On Bush's watch the North Koreans finished their development and testing of an atomic bomb.  But of course you'll blame that on  Clinton!  lol!
I do agree about SS though.

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inicky461220 reads

Does this mean you're a Lib? (no, don't answer, that was a rhetorical question.  lol.)

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BreakerMorant729 reads

in. This is not a political issue it is a character issue. Obama campaigned on a progressive platform and he has shown to be a fraud. If you cannot see this, then you are blind. President Bush made no bones he was a conservative, TARP non-withstanding. Bush performed consistently. Bush said he was going to nominate judges who were conservative and he did. Obama said he was going to nominate Elizabeth Warren to head the CFPB and he lied.

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inicky461021 reads

I agree that Obama is far too much of a compromiser.  Ironic, isn't it, that righties still call him a socialist?  As for Bush being a conservative, don't make me laugh. Conservatives, at least the consistent ones, deride him for his huge deficits.  He also favored McCain's immigration reform bill.  Remember that one?  They both backed away from it when Conservatives blasted it.
A lot of the things Obama has NOT done -- like Elizabeth Warren's nomination -- were because the Republicans told him they'd frustrate her nominating process.  So he gave them the end run.  She is the de facto head of the new CFPB and has put together the entire agency.  Bush did a similar thing re John Bolton's nomination to be UN Ambassador when he knew the Senate wouldn't confirm him.  He gave him a temporary apppointment during a Senate recess.  So who's the hypocrite?  Both of them, I guess.

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GaGamblerssmarterbrother1295 reads

Say what you want about Ryan, Obama has offered absolutely nothing, nada, zilch. How can you possibly be criticizing the other side, when Obama chooses to not do the job that he was elected to do?

It doesn't matter who said it, Obama hasn't offered up a thing, I don't care if ng, Rush, or Glen fucking Beck is the one that said it, no one can deny the truth of the statement.

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Officer Cartman2284 reads

Priapus's reactionary response shows us why nobody in Washington does a fucking thing.  Ryan offers a solution and is attacked and his credibility questioned.  Yet the 20+ year politician who only offers vague sound bytes is held with the highest esteem.

BTW, I have no idea who the "Independent" Priapus is going to vote for.  It's a total mystery!!

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GaGamblerssmarterbrother1558 reads

and then has the gall to call them the "obstructionists".

The Dems had a super majority and control of the White House and couldn't pass a budget. In a way I am thankful for their ineptness, if their budget was anything like Obamacare, I can only imagine how fucked we would be.

and yeah Pri is sounding real indepent today, isn't he? lol

I bet he is going to point out his one balanced statement "if you wanna criticize BHO on the debt ceiling ( which is certainly justified in certain cases " as proof of his "independence" lol

Oh well I guess if we are going to compare Pri with the likes of WW or Mattgina, I guess he is better than they are, but that's like saying one is smarter than Trannyboy, or more eloquent than AF. lol

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Priapus531268 reads

yah-------GaG------tell us about you being unbiased & independent-----LOL !

To rebut Pwilley, that "dog & pony" Cap & Trade bill coming out of the house will be DOA in the Senate---even some Republicans will vote against it.

GaG-----when it comes politics, the key word is COMPROMISE-------if those GOP House tea party crazies that you're so fond of won't stop behaving like spoiled babies & try to approach the middle in this debt debate, than the economy crashes. Bad for the GOP & worse for the country.



-- Modified on 7/20/2011 2:09:03 PM

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Officer Cartman1248 reads

This is what everybody seems to be missing- Compromise on what??  Let Obama and the Dems offer up a plan publicly (as opposed to sound bytes) and then let the compromising begin.  

It is rather obvious that if the Dems do have a "balanced" approach to this they would have made their case to the people.

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Priapus531204 reads

OC, pay attention : Mitch Mconnell is the GOP Senate majority leader; Harry Reid is the Dem
Senate majority leader. Together they are working on a COMPROMISE plan to raise the debt ceiling. There's another Senate compromise plan
being formulated by the "Gang of 6" ( 3 GOP Senators & 3 Dem Senators ).

If you'd get your nose out of the comic pages & read the news, you wouldn't make such dumb statements----:)

-- Modified on 7/20/2011 2:04:14 PM

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GaGamblerssmarterbrother1119 reads

He is the Senate "Minority" leader, Harry Fucking Reid is the Senate "Majority" leader.

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Priapus53869 reads

NOT an attractive quality, I must honestly admit.------:(

Btw, speaking of being pedantic, GaG, lets keep this in mind : for the upteenth time, it's spelled "ARGUMENT".

The above word, for obvious reasons, is used many times in this "leper colony"-----;)

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GaGamblerssmarterbrother678 reads

Nowhere in my post was the word "Argument" used, spelled either correctly or incorrectly.

Are you so desperate to change the subject that you are reduced to inventing mistakes on my part?

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GaGamblerssmarterbrother1028 reads

and you keep dodging the fact that the Dems had a sumpermajority in Congress, AND the White House and couldn't get a budget done, yet now you and them want to shift the blame on a handful of Tea Party freshmen Congressmen.

Come on, you've got to do a lot better than that.

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Officer Cartman975 reads

He blames the Tea Party.

I think its pretty clear at this point he's voting Republican.

Posted By: GaGamblerssmarterbrother
and you keep dodging the fact that the Dems had a sumpermajority in Congress, AND the White House and couldn't get a budget done, yet now you and them want to shift the blame on a handful of Tea Party freshmen Congressmen.

Come on, you've got to do a lot better than that.

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NeedleDicktheBugFucker1096 reads

so are the tax breaks for corporate jets.

since dummycrappers held congress since 06' THIS is their spending too.

simple, unrefutable.

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Priapus533494 reads

it has to pass with majorities in the Senate AND the House. There are 80 tea party freshmen in the house who are childishly ideologiclly intrasigent & REFUSE to compromise. They could certainly fuck a deal up & the economy as a result.

I could also say that my independence is "fucked up"; I voted for a TP congressman ( Joe Heck )
& I now regret that. I'd like to take my vote back. If a good candidate for Congress doesn't appear next time, gonna leave that part of the ballot blank.



-- Modified on 7/20/2011 1:54:33 PM

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GaGamblerssmarterbrother1064 reads

If the left would make "meaningful" spending cuts, the pressure to concede some revenue increases would be overwhelming.

and you still are avoiding the subject of how the Dems were unable to pass a budget with none of these Congressmen in office. Do you ever plan on acknowledging that fact, or are you going to continue to blame the Tea Party for unpassed budgets before there was a Tea Party?

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Priapus531835 reads

You sound like those lefties who blame GWB for the shitty economy, despite the fact BHO has been in office for 2&1/2 years now. He OWNS the economy now & will get the blame if things don't pick up. Hell-----even I agree with that, which is why ( dumb board opinions to the contrary ) I have NFC clue who I'm voting for. OTOH, if TP
House crazies scuttle a debt ceiling agreement, there will be hell to pay for them.

As for "meaningful" spending cuts, that's a relative & difficult concept to come up with. Dems wouldn't find deep cuts in Medicare "meaningful", as would the GOP on defense spending cuts.

Jesus, are things fucked up now-------:(

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GaGamblerssmarterbrother953 reads

and they couldn't pass shit with a supermajority in Congress, AND control of the White House. It these very same people who are now blaming the Tea Party today.

Meaningful means exactly that, Everything should be on the table, raising taxes without slashing spending will only serve to bankrupt the rich along with the poor, and won't accomplish Jackshit in the way of dealing with the debt.

If "TP House crazies" scuttle a deal because the cuts aren't meaningful than I would say that they did the job they were elected to do. Why do you think they were able to get elected in the first place? Their constituents were sick of higher taxes and higher spending, that's what they were elected to do, and so far that seem like that's what they are doing.

It's the "establishment crazies" that are refusing to cut spending. If they could come up with meaningful cuts, the Tea Party crazies would be forced to compromise.

I would much rather see everything come grinding to a fucking halt than to see my taxes raised without spending cuts to give me some assurance that Uncle Sam won't piss away this money like he did with all the other money I "gave" him.

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ScamsRus949 reads

DEM's Version of "Compromise"...as our POTUS turns...picks up his jacks and ball and storms out of the room...

Posted By: Priapus53
yah-------GaG------tell us about you being unbiased & independent-----LOL !

To rebut Pwilley, that "dog & pony" Cap & Trade bill coming out of the house will be DOA in the Senate---even some Republicans will vote against it.

GaG-----when it comes politics, the key word is COMPROMISE-------if those GOP House tea party crazies that you're so fond of won't stop behaving like spoiled babies & try to approach the middle in this debt debate, than the economy crashes. Bad for the GOP & worse for the country.



-- Modified on 7/20/2011 2:09:03 PM

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Priapus531727 reads

the GOP is under the thumb of Grover Norquist
who made all Republicans sign a pledge "forbidding them" from raising taxes under
ANY circumstances,even on the wealthiest 2% of the country & corporations who pay little or no taxes. The consequences of any Republican straying from that "loyalty oath" would be dire. That, in turn, forces the Dems to strongly resist any meaningful spending cuts. As I said earlier, the situation is very fucked up.

As for Scams "BHO story" above, that came from the mouth of the ever truthful GOP house MAJORITY leader Eric Cantor---

-- Modified on 7/20/2011 3:58:30 PM

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NeedleDicktheBugFucker1018 reads

any Republican straying from that "loyalty oath" would be dire. That, in turn, forces the Dems to strongly resist any meaningful spending cuts. """"

Since people don't want their taxes raised, Dems are "forced" to continue spending money?

LMAO!

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Priapus531038 reads

Don't worry mrnogood------your job below won't be affected-------;)

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NeedleDicktheBugFucker945 reads

i can always tell when you realize the correct answer will make your orginal statement look stupid.

you change the subject and use mockery or spell checking as a diversion.

enjoy the buffet, looks like he has some treats for you..lol

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GaGamblerssmarterbrother877 reads

Now that smacks of desperation in an "Argument" lol

I have a friend of mine that I enjoy debating from time to time, he is every bit as argumentative ss Pri, and just like Pri you can always tell when he has lost an argument. His only response will be a simple "Fuck you!!!" At that point it is safe for me to assume that I have won the argument and he has absolutely nothing left. lmao

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Priapus53917 reads

In our usual polarized fashon, we're simply showing the shitty conditions that prevail in the debt ceiling debate. You blame one faction--------I blame another. In fact, I think there's a poll out ( I'll dig up link later ) that shows
that a majority blame Tea party Republicans for the debt mess. ( not that you'll give a shit about that )

As for the "fuck you"attacks I lob against mrnogood,errrr, mrntrouble ( little difference betwee the 2 ), he's a far right batshit loony that is undeserving of civil debate.

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Officer Cartman998 reads

I guess i was getting popcorn and missed the reference.

Posted By: Priapus53
In our usual polarized fashon, we're simply showing the shitty conditions that prevail in the debt ceiling debate. You blame one faction--------I blame another. In fact, I think there's a poll out ( I'll dig up link later ) that shows
that a majority blame Tea party Republicans for the debt mess. ( not that you'll give a shit about that )

As for the "fuck you"attacks I lob against mrnogood,errrr, mrntrouble ( little difference betwee the 2 ), he's a far right batshit loony that is undeserving of civil debate.

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Priapus531046 reads

Despite fact we don't "see" same providers & we've never met face to face. In fact, has ANYONE ever met marikod ?

-- Modified on 7/20/2011 6:05:34 PM

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marikod1450 reads

Do you think you are the only one entitled to the special benefits this gal provides?

Related Link: http://classic.theeroticreview.com/discussion_boards/viewmsg.asp?BoardID=1&SortBy=DateC...

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Priapus531028 reads

Also, I've never been accused of being a "shill"---------;)

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marikod1602 reads

or number of items?

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Priapus54905 reads

Just because you didn't notice doesn't mean you didn't lose.
   You were dogged and owned by gambler on this thread.

      Game Set Match

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Priapus531874 reads

as certainly evidenced by your nauseous brownnosing. Perhpas YOU'd like to be dogged & owned by GaG--------:(

He's straight, so don't bother sending him any flowers-----LMAO !

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Priapus531325 reads

or go thump a Bible, or whatever you do for fun--------;)

-- Modified on 7/20/2011 4:53:45 PM

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NeedleDicktheBugFucker1124 reads

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Priapus53849 reads

however, quoting someone who has a plan opposed by 80% of the public is not a "credible" critic.
Ryan's plan is "tangible", but certainly not "credible". If BHO put out a "tangible" plan in re to the debt ceiling, to raise revenues by raising tax rates among the top 2%,of the U.S. "wealthy", would you say it is "credible" ?That it wouldn't engender the same kind of overwhelming negative reaction that the Ryan plan received ? That board conservatives who are screaming for a BHO plan , wouldn't be more pissed than they are now ?!------LMAO ! Anyway, a pox on both sides of this debt ceiling debate.

Lastly, PW's thread on BHO's "fence sitting" makes quite a bit of sense politically, given the rancorous debt debate; what doesn't make sense is the "Prissy old maid's mancrush" on the Wisconsin Congressman-------;)


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Officer Cartman1941 reads

Why would you post a picture that distorts such a handsome face?  Just look at that punim.

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dncphil2108 reads


You sure avoided the subject.  Ryan's plan may not be good. It may stink. That is another debate.  If you want to go there, keep in mind that the path we are on may be the end of Medicare anyway.

That said, at least he has a plan. Work on it. Debate it. Improve it.

The President came up with a budget that went down in flames with on three Senators voting for it.  There was some excuse that the proposal wasn't really the proposal, or it had been superceded, or something silly.  

If it wasn't a serious plan, don't call it for a vote, and submit something real.

Not only has the pres not put forward anything, but not one Dem has put forth anything.

If there is not one Democrat that wants to put together a serious proposal, quit and let you Dem governors appoint an interim Senator who will do something.

To think that they went for years without a budget is mind-blowing.

Yeah. Maybe Ryan's plan stinks.  But then come up with something. ANYTHING.

Posted By: Priapus53
OC, if you wanna criticize BHO on the debt ceiling ( which is certainly justified in certain cases ), you must quote someone CREDIBLE.

Tell ya-----in regards to the '12 election, the far right are behaving like lemmings going off the edge of a cliff-------

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pwilley1352 reads

I'll admit that I'm no expert, but if we adhere to our form of government, isn't it true that the President doesn't have squat to do with it ( or at least shouldn't )?  The debate seems to assume that the dems in congress and the President make up one side, and the repubs in congress make up the other.  I always thought the congress was responsible for the budget and then it's up to the President to sign or veto it.

Why can't the darn President be left out of it and the stinking congress get off the news, sit in a damn smoke filled room, and do the right thing.  Things have gotten so far out of balance with our government that it seems there is no solution but to somehow start over with a new slate.  Even the liberal press now says 80 percent of the public thinks our government is despictable.

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Officer Cartman1171 reads

The Congress does create the budget but they do it within the framework of knowing the President has to approve it.  They never do it independently of the President and assume a rubber stamp.  The President holds a huge influence.  For some reason we couldn't get a budget with Democratic President, Senate, and House.  The guy is still voting "Present".

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dncphil1170 reads

It is true that the President doesn't "HAVE TO" do anything, except have fancy state dinners and give the State of the Union.

But that doesn't mean he can't come up with an idea.  Also, if he doesn't want to come up with an idea, someone in his party should come up with something.

The pres can, if he wants, give direction to his party.  If he wants to wait, someone in his party has to take the bull by the horns and propose an idea.

The GOP proposal may not be great, or even good, arguendo.

BUT IT IS THE BEST IDEA OUT THERE.

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willywonka4u2257 reads

It's the House's job to appropriate funds. We haven't had a budget in 800 days? Then how are things still running? A continuing resolution is still a budget.

Why are we talking about this? This GOP voted 8 times to raise the debt ceiling while Bush was in office. They've raised it 74 times since 1962.  

Why is Social Security and Medicare even being discussed in this budget issue, when neither program contributes one damn dime to the deficit?

Why are the jackasses in the GOP bitching and moaning about debt, when the Paul Ryan bill they voted for, that they knew would go nowhere, if enacted would add 6 trillion dollars to the debt?

Why the hell are we worrying about the debt ceiling when we have a fucking jobs crisis? The United States now ranks 23rd in the world in quality of our infrastructure. We have a shit ton of people out of work. Gee, think there might be a solution here?

Why are we trying to work on budgets while Moody's is warning that they're cut our credit rating? It's fucking retarded, unless of course, if your goal is to dismantle the government and crash the economy at the same time.

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Officer Cartman1162 reads

"The fact that we're here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign -- is a sign of leadership failure.  Leadership means the buck stops here.  Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren.  America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.  Americans deserve better.  I therefore intend to oppose the effort to increase America's debt  limit".  Senator Obama- 2006        

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pwilley1069 reads

The House did pass a budget proposal yesterday.  Sadly, your President announced during one of his sound bite interviews that he would veto it.  And, your hero leader of the Senate says he's not going to let it come up for vote.  Where is the problem here?

And while you've been reminded of this before, let me again gently say, "whatever in the hell happened under Bush doesn't freakin have a darn thing to do with the here and now".  Let it go.  Just say no.  Let it go!!!

LOL

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willywonka4u1186 reads

Obama was quite stupid to vote against raising the debt ceiling in 2006. However, I gotta think that part of his rationale was that the GOP was spending like drunken sailors while starting 2 wars, giving big pharma a massive unpaid subsidy in Medicare reform, and cutting taxes all at the same time.

We would not be in this position today if it hadn't been for the utterly horrible way the GOP mismanaged the country's finances over the last decade. When Clinton left office, CBO projections were that we would nearly have our debt paid off by now. Instead our debt was doubled. The recession they created is causing the shortfalls today. What the House proposed yesterday would just dig a deeper hole for us to climb out of. The Dems might be worthless spineless scumbags, but it takes some pretty brass wrinklies to blame them for not wanting to put a gun to their head and pull the fucking trigger.

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inicky461286 reads

I find it fascinating that, despite your having already posted it several times, no one has  tried to dispute it.

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GaGamblerssmarterbrother1139 reads

Willy loves his charts, but often they are either inaccurate, not relevant, or just plain made up.

I think Willy believe that a chart is more believable than the written word. He doesn't give us credit for realizing that a chart can lie just as easily as the printed word.

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inicky461335 reads

refutes a lot of right-wing bullshit.  Since I am too lazy to check into it further, I was hoping someone  else would.  You, however, being self-renowned for your laziness, are probably not  that person.  BTW, I have great respect for the lazy because I R one.

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willywonka4u943 reads

In case anyone was wondering, here's the source for that little graph.

Related Link: Economic Downturn and Bush Policies Continue to Drive Large Projected Deficits

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inicky461059 reads

OK, but who funds this group?  Are they remotely non-partisan?  What's their history re agreement with Dem or Rep  positions?

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NeedleDicktheBugFucker1060 reads

i gaurantee you with willy it will be a group with an ax to grind. groups he cites from START with a POV and work back from there.

there are several issues one could raise with regard to this "chart".
1. where would GDP have been had Bush not cut taxes in light of the Clinton Stock market bubble bursting? What about post 9/11 when the country was shaken to it's core.
2. Wanna include the cost of wars? Can we assume the chartmaker would have done NOTHING in light of 9/11?
3. willy repeats the uninformed opinion that Bush and Republicans caused the credit meltdown and resulting recession. You know this is idiocy. Even if we assume the bank bailouts were a good idea, the FACT that so few dollars of TARP went actually resloving the foreclosure mess. and Obama's HAMP is an absolute disaster
4. Obama and the Democrtic majorities had the oppurtunity to repeal Bush's tax cuts and punted. They are now Obama's and the Dems tax cuts.

need anymore convincing that this chart is shit?

Personally, i align myself with GaG in his previous post. Even though I am not rich and will not be affected by Obama incresing taxes. I don't think it's fair to raise anyones taxes until government gets its hous in order.

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willywonka4u1181 reads

The Center on Budget and Policy Priorities is a non-partisan organization that specializes in how economic policy affects low income Americans.

http://www.cbpp.org/about/

If that means you have an axe to grind with their work, fine, but that doesn't mean that what they're saying isn't true.

I've posted this graph many times before, but historically, cutting taxes has resulted in lower GDP growth. I'm not suggesting causation here, I'm just refuting that cutting taxes increases GDP growth.

http://i55.tinypic.com/309t1lx.jpg

Don't forget that 9/11 happened on Bush's watch. He was, and still is, responsible for failing to defend the United States against attack on that day. His response to 9/11 was to botch the response in Afghanistan, fail to capture or kill bin Laden, and then attack and invade the wrong country.

There's a lot of blame to go around for the cause of the financial meltdown. It's origins began before Bush took office. However, he utterly failed to prevent that meltdown. He failed to address that bubble while it was growing.

I think TARP was a stupid idea. It would have been cheaper and smarter to forgive homeowner debt, or at the very least force banks to rework the terms of ARMs. Both Bush and Obama's policies here was a disaster.

You're quite right that Obama and the Dems failed to get rid of the Bush tax cuts. They fully get the blame for any extra debt that comes from that mistake. The debt accrued from those tax cuts over the last decade is the fault of someone else.

Raising taxes is part of gov't getting it's house in order. When capital gains is just 15%, and 47% don't pay any income taxes, you have a dysfunctional tax system. I find myself agreeing with Ann Coulter of all fucking people: everyone should have some skin in the game.

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mattradd1897 reads

It seems Obama did present something back in February, and most Republicans and some Democrats rejected it.

Related Link: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/02/14/AR2011021400906.html?hp...

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NeedleDicktheBugFucker1109 reads

Obama is. And THIS guys says we need to be responsible? lol!

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mattradd1808 reads

Obama hadn't shown any leadership, because he never proposed a budget. I was pointing out that he is wrong. Now, Ryan has shown leadership, along with, the Tea Party Republicans in the House, and McConnell, the Gang of 6, along Boehner and Eric Cantor. However, since none of their proposals will ultimately be passed by congress, does that make all of them not "sharp." The way I see it, they've all been responsible and shown leadership. But, we are not a country governed by a minority. So, just because a majority in the House want their way, doesn't mean they're entitled to it if they can't sell to the Senate and the President, just like the President isn't entitled to have it his way if he can't sell it to Congress.

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NeedleDicktheBugFucker1329 reads

fair enough.

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Officer Cartman1160 reads

MattRadd,

The issue is since February there has been nothing.  Now Obama is presenting himself as the sensible guy with the "balanced" approach and the Republicans are a bunch of children.  Yet his "balanced" approach led to a 0-97 vote.  This is why Ryan's quote references "Leading reporters on is not leadership".  All he is doing is looking for cover for himself.  That is not leadership.

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mattradd1110 reads

"nobody publicly has seen Obama's "balanced" approach to the deficit.  Yet the country is debating as if Obama has actually presented something tangible."

That's not true!

If you feel what he's provided, in regards to leadership, is not up to your standards, I have no qualm about. However, if you say something that's untrue, that's a different matter.

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Officer Cartman953 reads

Obama's 11th hour press conferences about the debt are not addressing his universally rejected February proposal.  He keeps referencing this new phantom "balanced" approach that the Republicans are rejecting- Not the one that EVERYBODY rejected in Feb.

Posted By: mattradd
"nobody publicly has seen Obama's "balanced" approach to the deficit.  Yet the country is debating as if Obama has actually presented something tangible."

That's not true!

If you feel what he's provided, in regards to leadership, is not up to your standards, I have no qualm about. However, if you say something that's untrue, that's a different matter.

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anthony61792 reads

will never pass. yes raise taxes, yes cut loopholes (that dumbass Norquist has associated closing loopholes as equaling tax hikes). and yes, that stupid no tax pledge fucked a lot of things up.

"As House Speaker John A. Boehner has said: Raising taxes is “unacceptable and a non-starter.”

"This orthodoxy is now woven so deeply into the party’s identity that all but 13 of 288 GOP lawmakers in Congress have signed a formal pledge not to raise taxes."

and obviously also cut defense, medicare, defense, SS, defense, etc, defense.

how will any budget ever pass when essentially 275 GOP lawmakers have agreed they will NEVER raise taxes.  and going against that pledge would be there demise as that guy has a lot of power, how he got it and whats his backstory, i haven't done much research on that.

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