I have a carry conceal permit in the state of Georgia. The current law on the books states that I cannot carry into "places of public gathering". For the purpose of defining places of public gatherings the description includes athletic or sporting events, churches or church functions, political functions or rallies, publically owned or operated buildings or places where alcoholic beverages are consumed. In 2008, public parks (local and state) restaurants and bars where removed from this list.
Representative Tim Bearden is once again working to "return gun rights to Georgia citizens" by introducing HR 615 which: "allows permit holders to carry guns almost anywhere".
Mr. Bearden's new bill is written to clarify state carry laws in Georgia for both citizens and law enforcement. If the bill is passed, legal right-to-carry permit holders could take their firearms everywhere except courthouses, prisons and criminal facilities. The right to self-defense would expand to include places such as churches, sporting arenas and college campuses.
The concern has been on several fronts, but primarily from Mr. Bearden's perspective, that 2nd Amendment Rights are being "stepped on" when you restrict where carry conceal permit holders (law abiding citizens or we would not have our permits) or even law enforcement may carry. The biggest concern and where most of the debate is centered is regarding college campuses where violent crime statistics indicate an increase and thought to be because of the inability to "the right of self defense". Campuses are subject to this increase as suspected perpetrators know that students and staff are restricted from having firearms on campus and therefore they become safer targets. Mr. Bearden does quote statistics gathered by GeorgiaCarry.org and the FBI that indicate that when carry conceal is permitted that violent crime statistics are reduced by as much as 10 percent.
Another concern is that you may be carrying while driving and turn onto a street that is considered a part of a college campus and all of a sudden find yourself carrying illegally. This could be very common of college campuses such as Georgia Tech that is right here in downtown Atlanta. I could make a wrong turn or just traveling through and if caught, I would lose my weapon, my permit and go to jail.
So if this legislation is passed it would allow me to carry anywhere I travel in the state as long as I do not go into a courthouse or a prison. It most certainly clears up the vagueness of "public gathering places", but IMO it allows more than what I believe is safe. I believe the debate also needs to go deeper into the area of sporting events and facilities. My main fear is weapons being allowed into the Georgia Dome or Turner Field as examples. And even though political rallies here in Georgia have been non violent, I have a concern about political gatherings. I agree with the move to include college campuses so that students and staff may become safer, but I have mixed emotions regarding churches and church functions (especially in light of the Tiller murder) and I am very fearful as to what may happen during sporting events. We all know just how out of control some fans at those events may become.
http://www.ajc.com/news/gun-carry-expansion-bill-268589.html
http://www.georgiacarry.org/
I had lunch not long ago with an Atlanta Judge. We briefly talked about this proposal and he made an interesting observation that gets at your point.... He said that in all his time on the bench, that he could only recall two cases where a violent weapons crime was alleged by someone who had a valid weapons permit.
He suggested, and I agree, that crooks are less likely to go after an armed public, or at least the belief that they may be armed.
I completely agree with you here.
A few thoughts though. I wonder how much violence on college campuses is the result of a lot of students being on pharmaceutical drugs. If that's the case, a conceal carry law allowing you to bring a gun on campus may not stop violence. It may just have the result that when someone goes bonkers and pulls a Columbine, he's shot down quicker.
I think a lot of murder sprees are the result of an overly medicated public who are taking dissociatives for depression.
But setting that aside, I think this is a very positive step in GA. The gov't should just step out of the way when it comes to where you can carry. I think it should also allow private venues to bar having a gun on their private property, so that would fix the issues with political rallies or sporting events if the owners see a problem with that.
About the only thing I like about living in the state of Virginia is that we have the right to carry.
Are you sure you are not related to Zinaval? He too was left of Castro, but also supported the second ammendment.
I have to confess, as strong a supporter as I am of the Second Ammendment and particularly "MY" right to keep and bear arms, I also support prohibiting firearms at certain venues like sporting events where alcohol is flowing as well as adrenaline, not to mention testosterone.
I also completely agree that an armed poplualace will bring mass murders like Columbine to a quicker and less bloody conclusion.
In the spirit of our first agreement in months, I will supspend my "troll" comments, at least for today. I make no such promises for tomorrow. lol
you're sweet GaG.
No, I've always parted ways with liberals when it comes to the 2nd Amendment. I've always been fairly neutral on the topic, but in the last 5 years or so, I've gone far more to the right on this topic.
Generally speaking, I think that all weapons should be legal to law abiding citizens up to what you would classify as WMDs.
But I think gun owners should probably register their weapons. I can't think of a good reason not to, and it would certainly help to solve murders. It would also make me more comfortable buying something at a gun show, knowing that what I want to buy hasn't been used in a crime.
The biggest problem in relation to the 2nd amendment in my opinion is that liberals don't arm themselves. Myself included. I've never fired a weapon in my life. But if I ever get a break from work, I'll take some NRA courses.
Almost by definition, liberals expect government to take care of them, and this extends to the most basic things as self defense.
I simply cannot abide a philosophy that makes it's members so dependent on goverment that they can't even bear any of the responsibility to protect their own life, limb and family. Not only are they either too lazy or too afraid to protect their own families, but they want to take the means of self defense away from the rest of us.
I will agree that overmedication may be a cause in violence, firearms have always been a part of American life, but without the degree of violence that we have seen in "modern" times. Myself and most of my peers were raised with guns in the house, the idea of shooting our teachers, classmates, or a bunch of strangers simply never was something that was considered. Gun safety was also something taught by parents. It was a fact of life that all guns in the house were to be considered as loaded, and the idea of them being playthings was disabused at an early age.
I was raised by a military man who shot for the 5th Army and All-Army rifle teams. My birth certificate (ceremony copy) was typed out on a small bore target. My first science fair project when I was in the 2nd grade was on the ballistics of the 22 caliber rifle cartridges. Gun safety started at home.
That is just wrong on so many levels. Maybe it's good he is not into sports. I wouldn't want him in my locker room. Somebody needs to delete this entire thread so we can start over.
well, I think you're more than sweet St. I think you're a sweetie pie. :P
sorry, couldn't resist.
Willy...I am stating the obvious, but please, if you do purchase, you owe it to yourself to become trained and proficient with what you carry prior to carrying. Not to mention that you owe it to those of us you may try to protect. There is nothing worse IMO then someone that carries, and is not "ready" to use. In neither VA nor GA have I been asked or required to prove my proficiency. The NRA is an excellent avenue to pursue, but you may also want to check out local gun clubs and ranges for courses as well. Please don't carry if you have not gotten that training and gained that proficiency. Most ranges do have weapons that you may rent to receive that training.
thanks Tx. There's a lot to learn about this. I will certainly take your advice and become proficient before I carry, and probably before I even buy.
When I moved from VA to GA I had to be very careful to remember where I was headed as to if my C23 could remain on my body, under my seat, in my saddlebag or not. I typically always have it with me when I am on my Harley. I always had it close at hand when living in Northern VA. But because of the vagueness of "public gathering places" here in GA, I found myself leaving it at home more times than not. Dont get me wrong, I feel a lot safer when I have it strapped on my hip, but am always cautious to remove it if I have to make a quick stop into a Wal-Mart, as I dont want to risk someone else's interpretation of public gathering places. I agree with Mr. Bearden on most of his points. The concern about college campuses was primarily at ATMs. We all can become "easy marks" if using a walk up ATM.
I cannot say that I agree with the statement of an overly medicated public and tying that with the reference to Columbine. I was not aware that any of those students were on antidepressants, but my memory could be faulty.
I do have some reservation, but for the most part it is the responsibility of those that do carry to be responsible and well trained. That may be a leap of faith, but as you are aware faith is not something I am short on. My reservations are that I've seen way too many out of control parents at Little League games.
again we agree!
except on this point. I'm pretty damn sure that every one of those Columbine type attacks the student was on a dissociative. I know that was the case in the VA Tech shooting a few years ago.
These drugs don't make people do these sort of things...but it does make them not care about doing it.
I do know the shooter at VA Tech was, and I know they have become prevalent.
hey, just curious, what handguns do you guys recommend for a first time buy? I'm thinking of getting a 9mm. I like Berettas, but I don't want to spend a ton of money.
For what purpose? Home defense? If you're a just-in-case type of guy, I'd recommend a revolver instead of a gun with a clip. At least to start. A 357 Smith & Wesson with a 4 inch barrel would be a nice choice.
yes, for home defense. I don't really dig revolvers. I mean, I've only looked at them, but I'm pretty competent with mechanical devices. Plus I'd like to have more ammo at hand if necessary.
I'm an old man, what can i say? 
my mom has a .44 revolver. the freaking thing is massive. holding it makes you swint like Clint Eastwood.
Generally longer the barrel the more accurate. You may want to consider a 6" barrel.
Definately practice and get used to the sound and recoil.
Also, remember the cardinal rule, don't ever aim at anything you are not willing to shoot.
...I had a wrist injury a few years ago from weight training. It's healed, but it does give me trouble from time to time.
any 6 inch barrels you can recommend?
If you are concerned about recoil, then IMO a long barrel revolver is not the right choice. There is more recoil in a revolver than in a semi-automatic weapon. What I like about the "C" series Glock's is that the "C" stands for compensator. The weapon is vented at the top of the barrel to reduce recoil and assist with "hold on target".
Again the best advice that has come from several is to get to a range that offers beginner classes and rents weapons. This way you will have the opportunity to learn and handle several different weapons before you go to a gun dealer to purchase.
Oh, I will. But it would be helpful to get some opinions from people more knowledgable to me on the subject.
I have a sort of hard on for the Beretta PX4. How do you think that compares to a Glock C?
I carry a Glock C23. It is a mid range in price, but Glocks are carried by several law enforcement agencies. I believe the weapon of choice by several Federal Agencies these days is a Sig-Sauer but they are more to the top end.
A 9mm is a common round and more readily available, but I prefer the .40 cal for knock down power. The size of your hand will determine which frame or model would fit best. The C23 is a midsize frame.
http://www.glock.com/english/index_pistols.htm
http://www.sigsauer.com/Products/ShowCatalogCategory.aspx?categoryid=1
well I'm a fairly big dude. I'm 6'2 and I have long as shit fingers.
Well, now, this is a lot like pussy... folks are gonna have strong opinions, little supporting facts, and just plain love the one they have and so they think everything else is inferior... lol
However, a couple thoughts.... hand guns with "short" barrels are probably not for anyone but the very experienced .. they are extremely difficult to aim and be accurate.. normal long size barrels are easier..
The 9mm will certainly ruin somebodies day if they are shot, but tests show that compared to a 40 or 45 calibur, the 9mm is less deadly on average... 9mm does have a bit less kick if held properly.
Anyway, best I can suggest is to go visit your local gun store/range, rent some of their pistols and fire them.. pick the one that seems most comfortible for you...
BUT, do not expect to be proficient by simply firing a gun a few times... and you'd be better off not having it if you are not proficient.
I agree pwilley. I plan on putting some serious hours in at the range. Since I was never taught this as a kid, I've got a lot of catching up to do.
The problem with 9mm is takedown power. There just isn't enough mass behind the round in my opinion. Also, 9mm's zip through walls like they were paper bags. Not good for home defense purposes since you might inadvertently injure someone in an adjoining room. I find the best balance is found in a .40. I personally own a Springfield XD40 and it's one of the best handguns I've ever had. I've also shot their XD45 but I like the XD40 because it's more compact. Call your local range and see what guns they have in stock for rentals to try out to ensure you find the right match for you.
Is carrying guns to the Capitol, legislature and other government building such as county seat allowed?
This is absurd because, the "right to protect" on self in a Church, Sporting Events, etc.
The law also gives private parties to ban guns from their property, I think.
Where are we living? Somalia?
I think it's reasonable to ban guns from courthouses and prisons. I can't think of any other public place where it's as understandable as those places, including legislatures. Any thoughts on this guys?
Today publicly owned and operated buildings are considered part of the "places of public gathering" definition and carry conceal is prohibited. All of the court building that I've been to have metal detectors and armed officers at the front doors, but I cannot speak for all of them.
I would agree with you, and that is my concern, that I wasnt convinced that churches and sporting facilities should be excluded as well.
As for the "private parties" having a right to ban guns on private property, Ive not seen anything referenced.
The park attracks a diverse ground, more brothers than middle aged white guys like me.
Some of these games get quite heated. Winners stay on the court and losers have to sit for an hour to get back on again. Hard fouls are not uncommon and more than once a pushing match degenerates into a full fledged square off. As always in male culture, the big guys dominate.
So if your Georgia bill became the law in LA, Id suspect a number of these guys would be carrying heat in their gym bags. The temptation to even up with the big guys would be too much. I can see angry guys pulling out a piece and telling the big guys to fuck off. Who knows what would happen next.
Lets keep guns out of parksand public gatherings Tx. We dont need em, they dont make anyone safer, and the potential for tragic accident is just too great.
But that went out in 2008 with Mr. Bearden's first bill. However, I do understand that "city ordinances" may come into play whereby particular municipalities may restrict the right to carry within their municipal park. HR 615 is attempting to open that up to major sporting facilities. That is where I get my main concern.
except you can't actually dunk. I know exactly the area you are talking about. I'll stick to my suburban over 40 league where I can use my 5 fouls and not get my head blown off.
on the wrong side of 50 I've lost my quickness and can't get around anyone. But I can still shoot (and I mean the ball).
Never got to play with Woody, although reportedly he played a lot of pick up ball in LA in the 1990s. But one celebrity that I have played with a few times at the Sports Club in DC is George Clooney. He is actually a very good player.
And it is just amazing how many good looking women watch me play when he's in the game.
age to compete athletically with younger players. My mind is there, but when some younger player does a crossover on me, well let's just say I look foolish.
The only celebrity that I have played with is Charlie Sheen. We play in the local high school gym so no girls gawking. And no, I don't ask for provider tips, TER, or anything about this business even though we should pay homage to the godfather of hobbying (lol)
Manhatten Beach, my guess is that a bag check with uncover that 50%+ were packin'
it is actually a rather tony part of LA. I never know where the guys come from but the park is not a drug haven as far as I can tell and I generally feel safe there.
But if LA allowed concealed carry at the park then these average citizens might start carrying a piece just like they carry a cell phone. And probably the accident would not arise from a fight but one guy sitting on the side line waiting for a game saying "do you want to see my new Walther pppk 380?" and inevitably an accidental discharge would occur.
like the old wester movies.
Let us have shoot out then, we will be able eliminate all courts, eliminate case delays and back logs. Don't forget the whiskey.
It would be fun. Sell tickets. Government needs the money anyway.