Politics and Religion

Most Aurora shooting victims have no health insurance. But we are the greatest country in the world.angry_smile
salonpas 2859 reads
posted

........with the best medical care.....right?

Some of the victims fighting for their lives after being wounded in the movie theater shooting rampage may face another challenge when they get out of the hospital: enormous medical bills without the benefit of health insurance.

Nearly one in three Coloradans, or about 1.5 million, either have no health insurance or have coverage that is inadequate, according to a 2011 report by The Colorado Trust, a health care advocacy group.

availability of it or the choices made by young people on how much to have.

I'm not trying to be nitpicky, but the technology and the level of our nation's medical care is second to none.  

Finding ways to make people understand the need for it or for making it possible for more people to afford it is the challenge that has been faced over the years.

That's so wrong on multiple levels. In the first place the quality of health care delivered to an individual depends primarily on  that individual's getting the health care.

The first thing you're going to be asked when you call a physician's office for an appointment or a hospital/free standing clinic, or set up surgery or a procedure or treatment in a hospital or medical facility after your name and DOB is your insurance--that is the a pre-requisite to getting the quality care that so many praise as if to say we aren't #1 in overall quality care is Unamerican.

And if you dig into medicine, a surprising number of procedures, treatments, and meds come from off the shores of the US and are developed/invented in other countries.

That's in no way to be construed that the US doesn't have overall high quality care available and high standards for insuring it if there are the funds to pay for it.  Right now, and you can see this although I don't agree with everything he says, in the weekly columns by Zeke Emanuel, former advisor to the  President,  (brother to Rahm and Ari) in the NYT.

The Two Big Questions on Health Care
http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/author/ezekiel-j-emanuel/

Share the Wealth
http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/06/23/share-the-wealth/

I have known thousands of patients who "understand the need for [medical care]" who can't afford insurance for it over the years. I also have known several  physicians who know the indications for colonoscopy and have Porsche insurance who through their  own ignorance won't get the  colonoscopy--some childhood fear of having something in their ass perhaps? This includes male and female physicians as well as 50% of lay people for whom the procedure is as important as any they would get from cradle to grave.

If you have two metastatic breast cancer drugs, and we do now, for the 20% of women with breast cancer whose tumors are Her2 positive, Herceptin, and the new drug, Perjeta (meant to be used in combo with Herceptin),  made by Genetech, and they cost $187,500 a year for the patient, the quality of them that can keep the patient alive does that patient little good if they can't take them.  We have the drugs, and routinely insurance companies have been dropping the women who need them although the  nurses in the oncology unit in one of our better and larger hospitals tell me that when the ACA passed in 2010, insurance companies began covering their patients.

The ACA has within it's more than 4 pages, like lol the Republican plan's farce, many parts that will cut out duplication of medical care, offer incentives for lower hospital acquired infections, and offer incentives to improve treatments and develop best possible treatment protocols, like HHS already posts on the web, as does the medical literature.

Having very good doctors at Overlook in New Jersey, or M.D. Anderson in Texas, or Piedmont,   St. Joe (now predominantly owned by Emory in the coming consolidation of smaller hospitals into larger health systems that will happen all over the US) or Emory in Atlanta who can deliver high quality care does nothing to help patients who can't afford it and aren't insured.

GOP governors threaten to cut patients in their states off from any chronic care, no matter what the quality if they don't accept Medicaid expansion funds, as the NYT article I posted yesterday outlines. That'd be this one:

Court’s Ruling May Blunt Reach of the Health Lawhttp://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/09/business/genentech-wins-approval-for-new-breast-cancer-drug.html

It was camouflaged among the barage of epithets Dr. Georgia Gamblypoo, the renowed physician medical researcher, and high quality clinician was hurling at an "idiot."  That's the great equalizer of the web. It allows people to call anyone names with no consequences while posting nothing of educational value  or on topic on a political board, whatsoever or even on point to a political view, while decrying that a given poster doesn't criticize his chosen party enough without having read the posts.  That's a lot like TER saying that reviews on providers have to be "neutral" or else the reviewer is an "idiot." LOL to the 128th power. :D

Who says GaGamblypoo doesn't have PMS or possibly a CNS disease causing its rage? Or more realistically an enormous ego that keeps grandiosely saying what a swell guy it is in multiple posts attacking other people with no basis under than the dynamic of hatred?

Also what the  GOP here doesn't point out or doesn't understand is that the ACA will save hundreds of billions in Medicare costs in the next several years.

From the author of the book Jonathan Oberlander, author of “The Political Life of Medicare” and a professor of social medicine and health policy and management at the University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill


The ABC’s of the Health Care Law and Its Future
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/03/health/policy/the-abcs-of-the-health-care-law-and-its-future.html

"The A.C.A.’s capacity to produce reliable cost containment has been exaggerated. Its Medicare savings are significant — it will save an estimated $500 billion in the next decade by slowing payments to hospitals and private insurance plans that contract with Medicare. Outside of Medicare, the cost containment is less impressive."

Cite for the quote and my claim:Jonathan Oberlander, author of “The Political Life of Medicare” and a professor of social medicine and health policy and management at the University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill





-- Modified on 7/26/2012 6:39:03 AM

-- Modified on 7/26/2012 7:16:32 AM

The extremely high quality and standards set by physicians and healthcare experts in America is not related to whether or not individuals choose to buy it or are able to afford it.

Simple as that.  

You look for a fight even when one doesn't exist.  What's the matter?  You don't have any big brothers or sisters to fight with at home????

I guess the for-profit hospitals figured the bad PR would cost their bottom line more.

They know most of these young people with no insurance will never be able to pay for their care.  
They are not going to get paid, may as well get some good PR from it.

EMTALA
http://www.acep.org/content.aspx?id=25936

Frequently Asked Questions about the
Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act (EMTALA)
http://www.emtala.com/faq.htm

•The Emergency Medical Treatment and Labor Act (EMTALA) is a federal law that requires anyone coming to an emergency department to be stabilized and treated, regardless of their insurance status or ability to pay, but since its enactment in 1986 has remained an unfunded mandate.
EMTALA was enacted by Congress in 1986 as part of the Consolidated Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act (COBRA) of 1985 (42 U.S.C. §1395dd). Its original intent and goals are consistent with the mission of ACEP and the public trust held by emergency physicians.

•Referred to as the "anti-dumping" law, it was designed to prevent hospitals from transferring uninsured or Medicaid patients to public hospitals without, at a minimum, providing a medical screening examination to ensure they were stable for transfer. As a result, local and state governments began to abdicate responsibility for charity care, shifting this public responsibility to all hospitals. EMTALA became the de facto national health care policy for the uninsured. Congress in 2000 made EMTALA enforcement a priority, with penalties more than $1.17 million, nearly as much as in the first 10 years (about $1.8 million) of the statute combined (U.S. Department of Health and Human Services' Office of Inspector General [OIG]). Between October 1, 2005, and March 31, 2006, $345,000 in fines were collected from 12 hospitals and one physician.
•EMTALA requires Medicare-participating hospitals with emergency departments to screen and treat the emergency medical conditions of patients in a non-discriminatory manner to anyone, regardless of their ability to pay, insurance status, national origin, race, creed or color.
•A technical advisory group was convened in 2005 by the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services (CMS) to study EMTALA. The advisory group focused on incremental modifications to EMTALA, but also envisioned a fundamental rethinking of EMTALA that would support development of regionalized emergency systems. A new EMTALA would continue to protect patients from discrimination in treatment, while enabling and encouraging communities to test innovations in emergency care system design, for example, direct transport of patients to non-acute care facilities, such as dialysis centers and ambulatory care clinics, when appropriate.

patrons for emergency medical conditions. So they had to provide this limited treatment – or obtain the patient’s consent for a transfer-  regardless of whether the patient could pay or had insurance.

         But they still could bill the patient and try to collect post treatment even if the patient was indigent. And if the patient needs follow up care for non-emergency conditions, there is no obligation to provide that treatment for free.

       So it will be intresting to see if they actually agree to provide the follow up care for free for PR reasons.


is a need for funds for care after hopefully all of them are stabilized from the trauma, and there will probably be considerable recovery for many of them (I don't know the extent of injuries but we will) there will be people rushing to fund their care.

Unfortunately there is gratuitous gun and other trauma and are medical emergencies every day and the Republican governors stubornly refusing to take Medicaid expansion funds will insure that many people do not get care unless they accept the funds (estimated at 3-10 million less right now.  Thanks Supreme Court for helping to potentially kill those people who don't get insurance.

I notice your President came out and said meekly "AK-47's should be in the hands of soldiers not criminals."  But he won't do anything to impact gun control whatsoever and of course Romney is on video pushing gun control and has done the Romney trademark flipflop.

Greatest Mitt-Bot Flipflop Hits" are starting to spread on YouTube and will be shown repeatedly in the fall.

and there ain't gonna be. Obama used the AK-47 in his speech yesterday in NOLA. He used it as a symbol for an assault weapon.  There actually are states where ammunition amounts require registration with law enforcement like NJ, or a little more hurdle for screening than Colorado. . Whether in fact that makes a difference, who knows--I doubt it--and I suspect that Holmes would have found a lot of ways to arm himself and get whatever the fuck he wanted to booby trap his place even if slightly more stringent laws were in place. Much of the media continues to fuck up and say Holmes obtained xyz illegally when everything Holmes had at his fingertips was perfectly legal.

I wonder what Holmes' source of funding was for the AR-15, the ammunition, the "bombs" he put together though, because on most grad students' salaries I know, he wouldn't have been able to afford that independently and I doubt mom and dad were funding him.  What he had cost a few thousand bucks, not usually in a grad students' budget.

The  American philosophy  pushed by NRA and its lobbyists is simply "My odds  of getting shot and crippled or killed or the odds of anyone I know hasn't happened yet, so I'll take my chances while I'm on the planet earth."  Welcome to Dumbfuckamerica.  I'd like to go on, but holy fuck the British are marchin' down my street and they're trashing cars and stringing up dogs. They just raped somebody. Gotta go.

-- Modified on 7/26/2012 10:27:36 AM

I guess it's a good thing that he's smart enough not to try to regulate the shit out of them.

I mean, really, how do you confuse an AK-47 with an AR-15?

With a little know how, and a little patience, you can buy guns shit as cheap, and do it legally. I regularly buy guns for under 50 bucks, use them for a while at the range, and then resell them for a nice profit. If Holmes knew what he was doing, he could have gotten his guns and ammo for under 150 bucks.

Jeff, the likelihood is far greater that you'll get robbed or mugged than the likelihood that you'll get shot. When you measure these two statistical probabilities, then it makes sense to buy a gun, learn how to use it, and carry it on your person at all times.

1) Obama probably can tell you that the AR-15 was involved; he gets better info than you do.
2) His speech writer had a whole fuckload of gun and munitions experts down the hall at the military command assigned to the WH complex not to mention the Secret Service who have advanced firearms training.
3) There isn't that much fucking difference between an AK-47 and as you know well there has been a debate fohevah as to AK-47 and AR-15 as the better rifle platform since both are used by law enforcement and military world wide. Eugene Stoner’s AR-15/M16 or Mikhail Kalishnikov’s AK-47? Which is better.
4) Obama may have known the AR-15 was involved and purposely singling out the AK-47 which is available and was when my dog went  on line a second ago to look for guns since he's arguing that after the arms build up the past week he needs to be locked and loaded for any fucking thing that moves.
5) It isn't really that important whether Obama is a gun expert, and if every time I saw the mainstream media say something totally fucking stupid about medicine, a medication,  a disease or I saw main stream top newspapers incl. the NY Times and my local one advertise total quack shit as legitimate help for everything from cancer to arthritis to making your dick 15 X longer and thicker, I got a nickle, I'd be very rich.

We get that you spend time with guns and know something about them. You don't have to prove it. We belive you.

I do think if Obama wants to get a gun consult he has to say "gun consult" and he can have a few hundred gun experts in the oval. Whatcha think?

And you don't have to be a gun expert to know that it's too fucking easy in several states to get ammunition and guns that are not needed to hunt.  And I continue to question why magazine clips like in your beloved AR-15 that do hold multiple rounds like James Holmes used in Aurora,   need to be available to lay people that fire an awful lot of multiple rounds per minute, because they are and they do.  Bachman can just use the bullshit stompers she must wear for everytime she spits the awful shit out of her rancid mouth to kill quail. The crazy bitch don't need no gun. Gee was that an effin' double negative?  Can the English police get ya fer that, instead of for that?

-- Modified on 7/26/2012 1:49:55 PM

1) Obama probably can tell you that the AR-15 was involved; he gets better info than you do.
2) His speech writer had a whole fuckload of gun and munitions experts down the hall at the military command assigned to the WH complex not to mention the Secret Service who have advanced firearms training.
3) There isn't that much fucking difference between an AK-47 and as you know well there has been a debate fohevah as to AK-47 and AR-15 as the better rifle platform since both are used by law enforcement and military world wide. Eugene Stoner’s AR-15/M16 or Mikhail Kalishnikov’s AK-47? Which is better.
4) Obama may have known the AR-15 was involved and purposely singling out the AK-47 which is available and was when my dog went  on line a second ago to look for guns since he's arguing that after the arms build up the past week he needs to be locked and loaded for any fucking thing that moves.
5) It isn't really that important whether Obama is a gun expert, and if every time I saw the mainstream media say something totally fucking stupid about medicine, a medication,  a disease or I saw main stream top newspapers incl. the NY Times and my local one advertise total quack shit as legitimate help for everything from cancer to arthritis to making your dick 15 X longer and thicker, I got a nickle, I'd be very rich.

We get that you spend time with guns and know something about them. You don't have to prove it. We belive you.

I do think if Obama wants to get a gun consult he has to say "gun consult" and he can have a few hundred gun experts in the oval. Whatcha think?

And you don't have to be a gun expert to know that it's too fucking easy in several states to get ammunition and guns that are not needed to hunt.  And I continue to question why magazine clips like in your beloved AR-15 that do hold multiple rounds like James Holmes used in Aurora,   need to be available to lay people that fire an awful lot of multiple rounds per minute, because they are and they do.  Bachman can just use the bullshit stompers she must wear for everytime she spits the awful shit out of her rancid mouth to kill quail. The crazy bitch don't need no gun. Gee was that an effin' double negative?  Can the English police get ya fer that, instead of for that?

-- Modified on 7/26/2012 1:49:55 PM

Of course, that's not really the point, is it? The point is that he didn't bother to utilize them before he put his foot in his mouth.

It's not that big of a deal. Obama screwed up his words. Don't do mental back flips to defend an honest mistake.

Jeff, I disagree. You do have to be a gun expert to know what regulations are reasonable and what regulations are unreasonable, when it comes to firearms. Don't you think that when the NTSB investigates a plane crash, they consult people who have an understanding of aviation? Or do you think the NTSB should instead hire know-nothings who are afraid of flying to conduct these investigations, and then make rules that govern how the FAA operates?

AR-15's, and firearms generally, are not legal because we think it's niffy that people can hunt deer. They're legal because self-defense is an inalienable right enshrined into the Constitution.

If this happened to me, you beter believe that the weapon I would choose to keep me alive would be an AR-15.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZKVQVXLVSM

p.s. by the way...it's spelled "nickel" It's no big deal. We all make honest mistakes.

cable and other networks will have gun debates from gun controllers and what the fuck let's make it easy to shoot the fuck outta people worlds.  Nothing will happen whatsoever and there will be another Aurora soon, and many more sooner, and there will be a few more days of gun threads here and everywhere else, and again the motto adopted in DumbfuckinAmerica is "Ah ain't gonna get shot, and no one I know or care about will get shot so fuck it, and boy if someone does come to shoot me, I'll shoot them up faster than you can say AR-15 or that I'm a tough mommajama with a gun and sometimes I can't tell mah gun from mah dick and neither kin the ladies."  Ah is always ready tuh shoot. (No racial implication here before someone gets itchy--where I live most of the white people talk this way if they have even that much vocabulary. They thought Palin should be elected and they are a collective echo chamber. They sit in traffic in Porsches for two and a half hours a day.

There are those detailed studies that ER doc and former Emory University Associate Dean Art Kellerman has done or yearson the percentage of people shot with their own guns in several cities, but what the fuck.



Anyone who's read my posts over the years I've been here knows that I've ragged on southerners.

http://classic.theeroticreview.com/discussion_boards/viewmsg.asp?MessageID=124575&boardID=39&page=

That doesn't mean that all gun owners are racist. Although, many of them are. I have yet to go to a gun show (and I live in liberal North Virginia), where I didn't see neo-nazi memorabilia, and books written by white supremacists.

Putting that aside, every gun owner who's trained in self-defense knows that he will always be at a disadvantage, because he must be RE-actionary. This is why every responsible gun owner who carries defensively learns to spot danger and potential danger before it happens. Statisically speaking, your best chance of survival is running away and avoiding the situation entirely.

Any gun owner who shoots himself gets what he deserves. If you don't respect a firearm, that's your fault, and you will pay the price for that carelessness.

Rutabaga_Baggins270 reads

Posted By: JeffEng16

We get that you spend time with guns and know something about them. You don't have to prove it. We belive you.
And you ask him to quit proving it. Well, willy probably does it to either show off or maybe he thinks you could use some more knowledge on the subject. You apparently are bored, don't care, feel you know enough, or whatever.

Before you get too comfortable making requests about what others post or not, you better look in mirror prior to your next medical rant. Just say'n, lest your own motives or usefullness to the greater good come into question.

followme299 reads

I do not know what soldiers obama is arming but US soldiers are armed with M-16's not ak's

or is obama's boss, putin, telling obama to start buying AK's from russia?

Or does obama want to give AK's to his terrorist friends.



Thank you
2012 = GOP

Planned or un planned? Aurora stimulted the arms market, the security market, and the health care/insurance market. Every bodys making money.

Snowman39277 reads

They were for the most part in the age group that voluntarily chooses not to buy it because they are in their 20s to early 30s.

They choose not to buy it from choice, and then you want to make a political point on the back of their tragedies...

YOU ARE PATHETIC...

I'm trying to turn over a new leaf here and not name call. Why don't ya join me?

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