Politics and Religion

Just in case anyone needed another reason to Occupy.....angry_smile

The headline of this story is a bit disingenuous when it says they "dined" with the law firm that will plead the case.  The firm, it turns out was one of many sponsors of a dinner of the Federalist Society, which is rather different from what the headline implies: that the law firm itself took them out for some kind of private dinner.
Beyond that, the story raises another, perhaps more significant possible conflict of interest: the fact that Justice  Kagan, who was involved with the case early on as Solicitor General, may not recuse herself.  Perhaps she can make a good case for hearing the suit, but it had better be a good one.

Email from Solicitor General Elena Kagan to Larry Tribe, etal. (regarding vote on health care bill):

http://www.cnsnews.com/sites/default/files/documents/TRIBE-KAGAN%20EMAIL%20EXCHANGE-03-21-10.pdf

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28 USC 455:

"(a) Any justice, judge, or magistrate judge of the United States shall disqualify himself in any proceeding in which his impartiality might reasonably be questioned.
(b) He shall also disqualify himself in the following circumstances:"

"(3) Where he has served in governmental employment and in such capacity participated as counsel, adviser or material witness concerning the proceeding or expressed an opinion concerning the merits of the particular case in controversy;"

http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/uscode/28/I/21/455

But I'll bet he talks about Justice Thomas' wife.

November 15, 2011 4:15 pm ET - by Adam Shah

Now that the Supreme Court has agreed to decide whether a provision of the Affordable Care Act is constitutional, the conservative media are trying a new tack in their never-ending quest to have Justice Elena Kagan disqualified from hearing the case. Fox and the Drudge Report have pointed to an email Kagan sent to then-Justice Department adviser Laurence Tribe on the day the House of Representatives passed the Affordable Care Act in which Kagan said, "I hear they have the votes, Larry!! Simply amazing."

But experts on judicial ethics say that the email Kagan sent is not grounds for recusal from the case.

Matt Drudge touted the email with the headline "Judge Not: Kagan Cheered Obamacare Passage."



Fox Nation  posted the headline "Recusal? Kagan Cheered Obamacare Passage."



Not to be outdone, Megyn Kelly, supposedly part of Fox News' "straight news" division, claimed that Kagan "did seem to back the law" and quoted the email. However, not even Kelly's guest, Florida Attorney General Pam Bondi -- one of the lawyers challenging the Affordable Care Act -- bought the argument that Kagan should obviously recuse herself.

Bondi said: "[Y]ou and I know that ultimately it's up to Justice Kagan whether she chooses to recuse herself. So she is part of the highest court in the land, and we believe that all the justices will do the right thing. And if they feel they can be objective and hear this case, then they should do so."


And Bondi is far from the only one who is skeptical of the argument that Kagan must recuse herself because of the email.

Tribe, the recipient of the email in question and a Harvard Law School professor, told CNSNews: "I do not have any reason to believe that any of the provisions of 28 USC 455 [the statute governing recusal of Supreme Court justices] require Justice Elena Kagan to recuse herself from cases involving the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act."
http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/kagan-tribe-day-obamacare-passed-i-hear-they-have-votes-larry-simply-amazing

Monroe H. Freedman, a Hofstra University professor of law and an expert on legal ethics, wrote on the Legal Ethics Forum blog:
http://www.legalethicsforum.com/blog/2011/11/justice-kagan-and-the-health-care-case.html

Kagan's "Simply amazing!" comment, in response to Tribe's mentioning that there appeared to be sufficient votes for passage of the health care legislation, is not enough to justify disqualification. It could be read as simply a statement of fact -- it was amazing, regardless of one's approval of passage.  However, even as an expression of approval of passage, the comment does not indicate that the Health Care Law is her work product, or that she had any substantive role at all in its formulation and passage.

Freedman also stated:

If, in fact, Kagan participated in any litigation strategy sessions regarding the Act, however, she would clearly be disqualified under 455(b)(3) and 455 (a).  But whether she did appears to be based only on surmise, and, as I understand it, has been expressly denied.  Her denial would not in itself be enough to avoid disqualification (see Liljeberg), but just the fact that Katyal asked whether she shouldn't be at the strategy session, does not seem to be substantive enough to justify the inference that she actually attended the meeting.  Indeed, in view of the importance of the litigation strategy session and her role as SG, the fact that he asked suggests that he had a reason to ask, e.g., that she was not on a list of participants.

On what we have at this point, therefore, I don't think Kagan is required to recuse herself.
John Steele, co-founder of the Legal Ethics Forum and a legal ethics expert, said the following in a comment on Freedman's post:

Monroe, agreed. There have been hints that she worked more actively on the matter but those haven't panned out yet. This "revelation" is a big yawn to me. It would be a shame if judicial ethics became infected by ordinary partisan politics -- whether from the right or the left.
And NYU law professor Stephen Gillers said in an email to Media Matters:

On the "simply amazing" quote: I do not believe that by itself it can require recusal under 455(a). I say "by itself" because a 455(a) analysis is often a product of multiple indicia alleged to support the inference that impartiality might reasonably be questioned. Sometimes, a single statement or act can support 455(a) recusal, as when Justice Scalia commented on the merits of the "Under God" case while it was pending argument. But often it's an accumulation of items.

Further, "Simply amazing" is susceptible to competing interpretations. For example, if a conservative justice had said it,  those who support the law might well  interpret it as evidence that the justice was amazed that Congress had the temerity to pass an obviously unconstitutional law. So the interpretation would sound like this: "Simply amazing that they can believe this is within federal power." When a purportedly liberal justice says it, however, the conservatives can choose to read it as meaning: "What a wonderful and salutary achievement for social welfare and the nation."

And there's a third reading. As a matter of actual fact, it was "simply amazing" that the United States Congress adopted a comprehensive health care law, regardless of its constitutionality. The fact of passage is simply amazing after so many decades of effort to address this social problem. Acknowledging the truth of that fact says nothing about partiality.

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I need to go occupy the warm spot on a slender female.  But before I go, let me just point out a few things.  The OWS does not represent 99% of the folks.  Hell, truth be told they probably don't even represent 1%.  Another truth, might be that they got what they fricken asked for... they voted in all these dems including a dysfunctional POTUS when it comes to economic matters.  If they want change, maybe they ought to go vote for it and quite electing more of the same shit.  And to you credit Willy, there have been a bunch of repubs who helped make the mess too.  What you have actually done is offer a pretty convincing argument to support the Tea Party.  They are, after all, the only group that actually wants to fix the issues that OWS raises, and they have a plan.

Or, did I misunderstand you and you actually want civil disobedience leading to guns and bombs on our streets?  Is that where you're going with this?

The Tea Party were protesting corporate ownership of government? Who wouldda thunk it? Go back to listen to Michael Savage, pwilley. I'm sure you'll get plenty of disturbed rhetoric from a guy who just can't handle that he got fucked in the ass by a Beatnik poet.

that it's become, there would'nt be favors to curry to business and UNIONS.

you seem to forget that part...

-- Modified on 11/15/2011 12:32:36 PM

Gov't has become bloated in order to shift tax revenue from the 99% to the 1%. What do you think the defense industry is, anyway? What do you think the Agriculture Dept. is? What do you think the Energy Department is? Is it any surprise that former Goldman Sachs employees work at the Treasury Dept?

Never heard of Hoovervilles? If it wasn't for the Hoovervilles (and being attacked), then FDR might have never become President.

Want something more recent, what did standing around in Tahrir Square change?

Don't make a mistake about this. The purpose of these demonstrations is to disrupt business-as-usual. To be cogs in the machine. Disrupt the mechanisms of profit, then you're distrupting the institutions that are the root cause of every major problem in the United States. To show that an alternative is possible, these demonstrations are governed in a direct democratic fashion. Idiots in the media have criticized these occupations for being leaderless, as if heirarchy is necessary for direction. To mock this, Occupy Denver elected a protester's border collie the "Protest Leader", saying the dog Shelby is more suited to be a leader than any corporation because Shelby can bleed and show emotion.

The Occupy movement isn't asking for anything that's unreasonable. All they're demanding is for democracy to function as our Constitution states that it should.

We should see what happens Thursday when Occupy Wall Street attempts to Occupy the NYSE. If they succeed, then it'll be the beginning of the end for the 1%.

Timbow2349 reads

Posted By:  
We should see what happens Thursday when Occupy Wall Street attempts to Occupy the NYSE. If they succeed, then it'll be the beginning of the end for the 1%.
The Wall Street protesters on Wednesday October 6th night tried to occupy Wall Street in front of the Stock Exchange. Cops fought to barricade them on Broadway. They were not able to enter.

Timbow1862 reads

Posted By: willywonka4u


The Occupy movement isn't asking for anything that's unreasonable. All they're demanding is for democracy to function as our Constitution states that it should.

We should see what happens Thursday when Occupy Wall Street attempts to Occupy the NYSE. If they succeed, then it'll be the beginning of the end for the 1%.


Quote:
Occupy Wall Street protesters are planning an attempt to shut down the New York Stock Exchange on Thursday, Nov. 17, as part of a series of actions to mark the movement's two-month birthday, according to a Facebook page that went live Friday.

“Join Occupy Wall Street and 99%ers from across the country as we shut down the stock market by throwing a block party the 1% will never forget,” the page states.

Sources within the Occupy Wall Street movement confirmed that the page, which details plans to stop the opening bell from ringing, is authentic.

http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article/20111111/FINANCE/111119966
Okay, so now no debate that they want anarchy and what will be authentic is the NY cops that will intervene :)



-- Modified on 11/15/2011 10:49:19 AM

attempt to co-opt depression era suffering falls FLAT on its face.

These are snot nosed punks attacking "rich people" to get their money.

Posted By: Timbow
Posted By: willywonka4u


The Occupy movement isn't asking for anything that's unreasonable. All they're demanding is for democracy to function as our Constitution states that it should.

We should see what happens Thursday when Occupy Wall Street attempts to Occupy the NYSE. If they succeed, then it'll be the beginning of the end for the 1%.


Quote:
Occupy Wall Street protesters are planning an attempt to shut down the New York Stock Exchange on Thursday, Nov. 17, as part of a series of actions to mark the movement's two-month birthday, according to a Facebook page that went live Friday.

“Join Occupy Wall Street and 99%ers from across the country as we shut down the stock market by throwing a block party the 1% will never forget,” the page states.

Sources within the Occupy Wall Street movement confirmed that the page, which details plans to stop the opening bell from ringing, is authentic.

http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article/20111111/FINANCE/111119966
Okay, so now no debate that they want anarchy and what will be authentic is the NY cops that will intervene :)



-- Modified on 11/15/2011 10:49:19 AM

thanks to the jackbooted thuggery of Bloomberg and several other mayoral tools of the moneyed Oligarchy.

 Our economic disparity along with the obvious power shift and subsequent immunities (IE: Too Big To Jail) makes me genuinely hope it culminates with CEO lynching’s & Wall Street being torched to the fucking ground!

  Great fucking coach, subordinates, and administration there at Penn State.
 Another great example of avarice, and how it breeds indifference to any form of evil so long as the money train is kept rolling.
IMO Penn State should also be torched as an example to other schools; as well as the Catholic Church.  

Snowman39982 reads

BTW, why do OWS supporters always hope for violence. I would suggest ou look up Kent State. Go ahead and turn violent, less free loaders.

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