Politics and Religion

JE16, just for the halibut, I talked.....
jerseyflyer 20 Reviews 1864 reads
posted

to my urologist, my family doctor, and a pilot friend, who is an internal medicine specialist. Also, the FAA Eastern Region AME, and read a few articles in the WSJ, Forbes, and news reports from Washington State. They all confirmed that out of 300,000,000 people in the USA, 18,000 have so far this year came down with whooping cough. That's a whopping .00006% of the population. That's an epidemic? So far, sad to say, 10 of those infected have died, mostly infants too young to be vaccinated. The reports also mentioned that the pertussis vaccine has become somewhat ineffective, especially in 12-14 year olds, when they get their booster shots, to the point that the booster effectiveness lasts only for 2-3 years. The pertussis virus has mutated causing the ineffectiveness. What to do now, buttercup?

Oh, and I travel to the Atlanta area routinely for family visits. I certainly won't be looking to be attended by you any time soon. My brother-in-law in Athens is a doctor, a good one, with a pleasant bedside manner. Cheers.

...by many sources, including Forbes, which you cited as one of your sources (see link).  Others simply call it an "outbreak."

BTW, when your urologist tells you to turn your head and cough, he's not checking to see if you have pertussis, lol.

I just turned my head and coughed last Friday. At least I had him take his med school ring off his finger this time. Tumor's still there, but....well who knows. Watchful waiting, now there's an oxymoron.

and I have an answer to the question "What to do now, buttercup?"

Immunization also protects by "herd immunity". The vaccine is not less effective because it is less effective as you stated or was misinterpreted by the docs you consulted, it is less effective only when 5-15% of the population doesn't get vaccinated because then even people who are vaccinated have less immunity and elevated risk.

Nearly 18,000 cases have been reported so far — more than twice the number seen at this point last year.  At this pace, the number for the entire year will be the highest since 1959, when 40,000 illnesses were reported.

Dr. Anne Schuchat, who oversees the CDC's immunization and respiratory disease programs, and who I know and have spoken with, says the newer vaccine may not be as effective over a period of time, and may be less effective in teen agers or older patients but they don't  know what that period is yet, and will need more study. She strongly recommends that the groups the CDC recommends get the vaccine get it, including teenagers and adults,  and she is very concerned. She also debunked one of the self appointed ID experts on this board who claimed H1N1 was an exagerated myth, and said they didn't visit the dying patients at Emory Children's Hospital  across the street from the CDC like she did whose  hospitalizations cost upwards of $600,000.

I  wonder if your brother-in-law with the good bedside manner told you what the medical schools in Georgia are saying to Governor Deal and the Ga. legislature  about getting off their asses and accepting Medicaid expansion funds, and that he should (but won't) allow the state to set u p exchanges instead of having HHS do it for them. Many Republican governors will do just that after pounding their chests stupidly to jerkoff the base who wanted Palin a heartbeat away from the oval office.

I assume (lol) you're implying I don't have a high quality level of empathy or bedside manner, but my patients over the years seen every day, would disagree, and I'm not looking for any "attaboys" in that respect from people who call me an idiot several times a day because they want to deny 30 million people health care.

Also, only 50% of people in the US both sexes whose age indicates they get a colonoscopy do, so I hope if you and your doctor acquaitances are that age you get one, because 50% of doctors in Georgia and the US who should don't get them. They're painless, and propofol, the drug that Michael Jackson misused is used for anesthesia and it works well.

Also if you were telling BigPapasan that you have a tumor I wish you the best possible outcome, and wonder if it's been ultrasounded or CT-scanned to determine what to do next. Maybe I misunderstood.

The population of the US a few minutes ago was  314,008, 851 a few minutes ago. The CDC's official definition of an epidemic is: "The occurrence of more cases of disease than expected in a given area or among a specific group of people over a particular period of time." Since some diseases become more prevalent or lethal over time, while others become less severe, the CDC adjusts its statistical models to alter the definition of what's truly more than expected.

1) There is a lag in what gets reported to CDC and finally appears in the MMWR that comes out. Over the last 5 years up to 25,000 cases of Whooping Cough didn't get reported.

2) The deaths of the 9 kids we know about aren't viewed as a "whopping percent of the population" by their parents. They are viewed as tragedies that will stay with them for the rest of their lives.

3) It's very important that children and some adults get vaccinated.  The vaccine is effective. There was an epidemic in Japan in 1979 where  In 1979, Japan reported 13105 cases of pertussis with 41 deaths after an anti-vaccine movement, and witholding vaccinations recommended by CDC is a terribly irresponsible thing to do, and I don't know any MDs, particularly pediatricians doing that.  

We have one of your  collegues on this Board who likes to upload huge .jpegs or .pngs ridiculing Bill and Melinda gates as killers who gave a long rambling patchwork of paraphrase asserting that the NIH says polio vaccines are causing a record increase of pediatric cancer over the last 6 decades. Nothing  could be further from the truth, and the investigators that feared that would happen did their work in the early 1950's.  The NIH has since debunked that myth with several careful studies in the medical literature and SV-40 has not and is not causing cancer. The polio vaccine has been tweaked since the early 1990s and the rate of complications from it (no vaccine is 100% safe just as we can't say that BBBJ is 100% safe) is down about 40% to 5 serious ones a year.  It's not the toxic poisonous monstrous plot by the government to kill large segments of the pediatric population that was depicted by your collegue her.  The NIH has a website dedicated to debunking the myth perpeatuated on SV-40, and I get the major cancer journals and there is no mention in "CA", the journal from the  American Cancer Society hq'd in Atlanta two months ago that dealt with cancer incidence and relative increases in certain cancers. Pediatric neoplasms weren't among them.

You or your advisors are incorrect in saying that "infants too young to be vaccinated" died because  the current CDC recommendations for Pertussis are these:

http://www.cdc.gov/pertussis/outbreaks-faqs.html

•Infants and children should receive 5 doses of the DTaP vaccine at 2, 4, and 6 months, at 15 through 18 months, and at 4 through 6 years. All 5 doses are needed for maximum protection. Children 7-10 years of age who are not fully vaccinated with DTaP should receive a dose of Tdap instead of waiting for the 11-12 year old check up.  See the rest of the link for recommendations for older patient groups.

*Adults and children who need to be vaccinated aren't getting vaccinated and that's the reason for the outbreaks and yes epidemics in several states.* This puts them at risk for getting whooping cough, and in the worst case scenario, dying from it.

In Washington state, where an epidemic has been declared, the numbers are staggering: 1,284 cases through early May, the most in at least three decades and 10 times last year’s total at this time, 128. Budget cuts in Washington and other states are compromising the response to this epidemic. The ER doc that heads one county where the epidemic is worst in Washington has recommended testing for Pertussis stop because of lack of funds, that if the patient has a persistent deep cough and history of exposure to another patient, they should just treat because testing for whooping cough costs $400 and delays treatment for days. Half a million has been spent on testing in the US this year,  and that buys a lot of vaccine.

In the 1920's -1940's before our time, Pertussis killed 5-10,000 Americans, but now the risk is primarily to infants, and it kills about 1% of them.

In fact most of the victims in the US currently who got or have whooping cough are between the ages of 8-12. Washington State, according to a federal study last year of kindergarten-age children, had the highest percentage of parents in the nation who voluntarily exempted their children from one or more vaccines, out of a false fear of side effects or for philosophical reasons.

Officials at the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, which sent three epidemiologist investigators to Washington last week, said the number of pertussis cases had been rising gradually nationwide for several decades, with periodic regional outbreaks. In 2010, California had its worst bout with pertussis in decades.












-- Modified on 7/24/2012 10:35:52 AM

and I have an answer to the question "What to do now, buttercup?"

Immunization also protects by "herd immunity". The vaccine is not less effective because it is less effective as you stated or was misinterpreted by the docs you consulted, it is less effective only when 5-15% of the population doesn't get vaccinated because then even people who are vaccinated have less immunity and elevated risk.

Nearly 18,000 cases have been reported so far — more than twice the number seen at this point last year.  At this pace, the number for the entire year will be the highest since 1959, when 40,000 illnesses were reported.

Dr. Anne Schuchat, who oversees the CDC's immunization and respiratory disease programs, and who I know and have spoken with, says the newer vaccine may not be as effective over a period of time, and may be less effective in teen agers or older patients but they don't  know what that period is yet, and will need more study. She strongly recommends that the groups the CDC recommends get the vaccine get it, including teenagers and adults,  and she is very concerned. She also debunked one of the self appointed ID experts on this board who claimed H1N1 was an exagerated myth, and said they didn't visit the dying patients at Emory Children's Hospital  across the street from the CDC like she did whose  hospitalizations cost upwards of $600,000.

I  wonder if your brother-in-law with the good bedside manner told you what the medical schools in Georgia are saying to Governor Deal and the Ga. legislature  about getting off their asses and accepting Medicaid expansion funds, and that he should (but won't) allow the state to set u p exchanges instead of having HHS do it for them. Many Republican governors will do just that after pounding their chests stupidly to jerkoff the base who wanted Palin a heartbeat away from the oval office.

I assume (lol) you're implying I don't have a high quality level of empathy or bedside manner, but my patients over the years seen every day, would disagree, and I'm not looking for any "attaboys" in that respect from people who call me an idiot several times a day because they want to deny 30 million people health care.

Also, only 50% of people in the US both sexes whose age indicates they get a colonoscopy do, so I hope if you and your doctor acquaitances are that age you get one, because 50% of doctors in Georgia and the US who should do. They're painless, and propofol, the drug that Michael Jackson misused is used for anesthesia and it works well.

The population of the US a few minutes ago was  314,008, 851 a few minutes ago. The CDC's official definition of an epidemic is: "The occurrence of more cases of disease than expected in a given area or among a specific group of people over a particular period of time." Since some diseases become more prevalent or lethal over time, while others become less severe, the CDC adjusts its statistical models to alter the definition of what's truly more than expected.

1) There is a lag in what gets reported to CDC and finally appears in the MMWR that comes out. Over the last 5 years up to 25,000 cases of Whooping Cough didn't get reported.

2) The deaths of the 9 kids we know about aren't viewed as a "whopping percent of the population" by their parents. They are viewed as tragedies that will stay with them for the rest of their lives.

3) It's very important that children and some adults get vaccinated.  The vaccine is effective. There was an epidemic in Japan in 1979 where  In 1979, Japan reported 13105 cases of pertussis with 41 deaths after an anti-vaccine movement, and witholding vaccinations recommended by CDC is a terribly irresponsible thing to do, and I don't know any MDs, particularly pediatricians doing that.  

We have one of your  collegues on this Board who likes to upload huge .jpegs or .pngs ridiculing Bill and Melinda gates as killers who gave a long rambling patchwork of paraphrase asserting that the NIH says polio vaccines are causing a record increase of pediatric cancer over the last 6 decades. Nothing  could be further from the truth, and the investigators that feared that would happen did their work in the early 1950's.  The NIH has since debunked that myth with several careful studies in the medical literature and SV-40 has not and is not causing cancer. The polio vaccine has been tweaked since the early 1990s and the rate of complications from it (no vaccine is 100% safe just as we can't say that BBBJ is 100% safe) is down about 40% to 5 serious ones a year.  It's not the toxic poisonous monstrous plot by the government to kill large segments of the pediatric population that was depicted by your collegue her.  The NIH has a website dedicated to debunking the myth perpeatuated on SV-40, and I get the major cancer journals and there is no mention in "CA", the journal from the  American Cancer Society hq'd in Atlanta two months ago that dealt with cancer incidence and relative increases in certain cancers. Pediatric neoplasms weren't among them.

You or your advisors are incorrect in saying that "infants too young to be vaccinated" died because  the current CDC recommendations for Pertussis are these:

http://www.cdc.gov/pertussis/outbreaks-faqs.html

•Infants and children should receive 5 doses of the DTaP vaccine at 2, 4, and 6 months, at 15 through 18 months, and at 4 through 6 years. All 5 doses are needed for maximum protection. Children 7-10 years of age who are not fully vaccinated with DTaP should receive a dose of Tdap instead of waiting for the 11-12 year old check up.  See the rest of the link for recommendations for older patient groups.

*Adults and children who need to be vaccinated aren't getting vaccinated and that's the reason for the outbreaks and yes epidemics in several states.* This puts them at risk for getting whooping cough, and in the worst case scenario, dying from it.

In Washington state, where an epidemic has been declared, the numbers are staggering: 1,284 cases through early May, the most in at least three decades and 10 times last year’s total at this time, 128. Budget cuts in Washington and other states are compromising the response to this epidemic. The ER doc that heads one county where the epidemic is worst in Washington has recommended testing for Pertussis stop because of lack of funds, that if the patient has a persistent deep cough and history of exposure to another patient, they should just treat because testing for whooping cough costs $400 and delays treatment for days. Half a million has been spent on testing in the US this year,  and that buys a lot of vaccine.

In the 1920's -1940's before our time, Pertussis killed 5-10,000 Americans, but now the risk is primarily to infants, and it kills about 1% of them.

In fact most of the victims in the US currently who got or have whooping cough are between the ages of 8-12. Washington State, according to a federal study last year of kindergarten-age children, had the highest percentage of parents in the nation who voluntarily exempted their children from one or more vaccines, out of a false fear of side effects or for philosophical reasons.

Officials at the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, which sent three epidemiologist investigators to Washington last week, said the number of pertussis cases had been rising gradually nationwide for several decades, with periodic regional outbreaks. In 2010, California had its worst bout with pertussis in decades.










phil said it best...the term 'epidemic' has lost it's meaning. .00006% of the population is NOT an epidemic. The articles I read said there were surely some misdiagnosed cases in those suspected of having pertussis. I also said that "sad to say that most of the deaths were infants too young to vaccinate. That "too young to vaccinate" statement was in each article. let's get one thing straight, once and for all. I believe in vaccination, period. I received them when they became available, as did my kids. While in the military I had no choice, but to get them. Probably some you've never heard of, such as the bubonic plague and anthrax vaccines. I also believe that the CDC enjoys scaring the shit out of the general public so it can get increased funding. All government agencies work that way. Politics, it's all fucking politics. That's exactly what I have a problem with.

Having said that, thanks for your advice, but I've already had two colonoscopies, a siegmoidoscopy, a bronchoscopy, (for sarcoidosis, and I have never smoked anything),) x-rays, ct scans, and more DRE's than I can count, thank you very much. Getting very tired of being poked and prodded, but it beats the alternative. Been shot, stabbed, and still have a piece of metal from a mortar round in my back, between the 4th and 5th rib, and a cracked vertabrae. And that's only a part of my medical history. So now what? More name calling on your part?

-- Modified on 7/24/2012 11:28:53 AM

If you look at a real epidemic, like the flu outbreak around 1917 (forgot the exact year, sorry), you see what it means.  Millions.
In the old days, and epidemic meant many, many people.  Everyone knew many people who died of the flu then.

I have been involved in the dance/theater scene for over 30 years, so I know a fairly large number of gay guys.  I knew 2 who died of AIDS.  And that was the disease that would kill millions of straights, according to the experts.

Biden told people not to fly because of one of the flus.  If 500 people died of that in the US, out of 300 million, I would be surprised.  Possible, but surprising

How's that for meaning Phil? Don't get hung up over semantics.  Is that too ambiguous for ya?  When vaccines are refused by 5-15% of a population as they have been in Washington State, bad things happen.

Google herd immunity or go to a medical library and find it in an infectious disease text.

More people are going to get Pertussis this year than in 50 years.

Or

Knock on the door of people whose kids died from H1N1 or someone whose pregnant wife died from it and tell them you're "bumfuck Phil, it wasn't 1917 and get the fuck over it."

There's a plan.

Tell us what happened when vaccines were ignored by significant parts of the population in Japan in 1979, in the UK and in Sweden in the past?

Can we haul those corpses from those 3 countries over to your living room, knock down a wall and put them there?  They're going to trail out for several blocks in dncphil's neighborhood but you don't give a rat's ass do ya?

There's dncphil and then there's the CDC.  Duh which one understands infectious disease?


-- Modified on 7/24/2012 2:16:21 PM

mrnogood368 reads

are now in bed with big-pharma, and they're pushing shots, and drugs now...and they know using words like "epidemic" will make people get their shots..


and jeff may deny this, and he's free too... but even his medical schools have been funded by big pharma, and they've propagandized him to be a snake oil salesmen for them without him even knowing it

http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=medical+schools+funded+by+big+pharma&ei=UTF-8&fr=moz35

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&output=search&sclient=psy-ab&q=medical+schools+funded+by+big+pharma&oq=medical+schools+funded+by+big+pharma&gs_l=hp.3...1683.11236.0.11415.38.26.1.1.1.1.1224.13037.2j7j1j2j2j3j7j2.26.0...0.0...1c.AAF6QxSCffA&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=6469df5417c526af&biw=1024&bih=573

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