California legislators are on the verge of passing some much needed and down right brilliant gun control laws.
My personal favorite is SB396 by the lovely Sen Loni Hancock that actually requires owners of Glocks and any standard capacity magazine to destroy or surrender them to law enforcement at the risk of being thrown in jail: “any person in this state who possesses any large-capacity magazine, regardless of the date the magazine was acquired, is guilty of an infraction punishable by a fine not to exceed one hundred dollars ($100), or is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by a fine not to exceed one hundred dollars ($100), by imprisonment in a county jail not to exceed one year, or by both that fine and imprisonment. (c) Any person who, prior to July 1, 2014, legally possesses a large-capacity magazine shall dispose of that magazine by any of the following means:(1) Remove the large-capacity magazine from the state.
(2) Prior to July 1, 2014, sell the large-capacity magazine to a licensed firearms dealer.
(3) Destroy the large-capacity magazine.
(4) Surrender the large-capacity magazine to a law enforcement agency for destruction.”
Yes, yes. Let’s just throw gun owners in jail. That’s bound to reduce gun violence. That’s even better than confiscation. And you have to love the irony- California is under court order to release the actual criminals and, if they pass this bill, the criminals will be replaced with…”glock owners.” What a state. We need only two more votes to get this one passed. Will the NRA support Ms. Hancock in the next election? Maybe not. The legislature also passed bills that would outlaw the sale of rifles with detachable magazines; expand the list of crimes that result in a 10-year ban on possessing firearms; that would expand the state's safety-certificate requirement from handguns to long guns as well; crack down on "straw purchasers" who buy guns on behalf of those legally prohibited from doing so; tighten exemptions to the law prohibiting the purchase of handguns not tested and deemed safe by the state; and ban use of lead ammunition in hunting.
Of course, Governor Moonbeam has to sign these bills before they become law and can veto them, but I’m sure we all agree that it is refreshing to see state legislators stand up to the gun control lobby and hopefully other states will use these laws a template for even tougher ones
The bill dosen't address this cause and effect.
My personal favorite is SB396 by the lovely Sen Loni Hancock that actually requires owners of Glocks and any standard capacity magazine to destroy or surrender them to law enforcement at the risk of being thrown in jail:
“any person in this state who possesses any large-capacity magazine, regardless of the date the magazine was acquired, is guilty of an infraction punishable by a fine not to exceed one hundred dollars ($100), or is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by a fine not to exceed one hundred dollars ($100), by imprisonment in a county jail not to exceed one year, or by both that fine and imprisonment.
(c) Any person who, prior to July 1, 2014, legally possesses a large-capacity magazine shall dispose of that magazine by any of the following means:
(1) Remove the large-capacity magazine from the state.
(2) Prior to July 1, 2014, sell the large-capacity magazine to a licensed firearms dealer.
(3) Destroy the large-capacity magazine.
(4) Surrender the large-capacity magazine to a law enforcement agency for destruction.”
Yes, yes. Let’s just throw gun owners in jail. That’s bound to reduce gun violence. That’s even better than confiscation. And you have to love the irony- California is under court order to release the actual criminals and, if they pass this bill, the criminals will be replaced with…”glock owners.” What a state.
We need only two more votes to get this one passed. Will the NRA support Ms. Hancock in the next election? Maybe not.
The legislature also passed bills that would outlaw the sale of rifles with detachable magazines; expand the list of crimes that result in a 10-year ban on possessing firearms; that would expand the state's safety-certificate requirement from handguns to long guns as well; crack down on "straw purchasers" who buy guns on behalf of those legally prohibited from doing so; tighten exemptions to the law prohibiting the purchase of handguns not tested and deemed safe by the state; and ban use of lead ammunition in hunting.
Of course, Governor Moonbeam has to sign these bills before they become law and can veto them, but I’m sure we all agree that it is refreshing to see state legislators stand up to the gun control lobby and hopefully other states will use these laws a template for even tougher ones.
Quote :
SB 396 (Hancock): Prohibiting Possession of Large Capacity Ammunition Magazines
Current California law prohibits the sale of large capacity ammunition magazines (magazines capable of holding more than 10 rounds of ammunition) but possession of these magazines is not illegal. SB 396 would prohibit the possession of a large capacity magazine in California, regardless of when the magazine was acquired. The bill would provide that any person who legally possessed a large capacity magazine may lawfully dispose of the magazine by selling it to a firearms dealer, removing it from the state, destroying it, or surrendering it to law enforcement by July 1, 2014.
Status: Two-year bill: ineligible to proceed this year (died in Assembly).
http://smartgunlaws.org/tracking-state-gun-laws-2013-california-firearms-legislation/
-- Modified on 9/13/2013 3:35:12 PM
or at least send him a post card. Sorry, Willy, those orange prison outfits they make you wear clash with my blue suit and Carolina blue tie.
Damn Timbow you are really on top of things. My link was dated yesterday and said they were having another vote.
But here is the thing. Willy, Mein, and Spades keep telling me how safe glocks are. What I want to know from these boys is - if they are so safe, why do 39 members of he California General Assembly think glocks are so dangerous that otherwise law abiding owners should be tossed in jail jus for possession?
And why do they they feel it is such a crime that they will jail glock owners at the same time they are releasing gangbangers, drug dealers, market timers and everyone short of Charlie bc they don't have enough jail space?
Dangerous why do many police forces and private security details keep them. These senators aren't giving up their right to own them are they? Many of these bills exempt politicians and their security detail. What is the difference between a glock, kimber, ruger, sig, M&P...
Wow. So against a legal gun owner that you'd rather have convicted felons on the street than me with a glock locked in a gun safe? That's reasonable? I guess I don't live in cali let them all out, give them SS or welfare, state medical and hope they don't reoffend. It really isn't my tax dollars, my family that could be hurt, my neighborhood that will be effected.
MN had proposed making anything over a 10 rd mag a felony. There was a petition with 10,000 plus signatures of would be felons willing to turn themselves in if it passed and demand to be charged. Colorado just voted out 2 politicians who led the gun ban laws in their state. Gun owners will vote solely on gun issues and there are more of us than you believe. It'll play out over the next 10 yrs and I guess that's all I can say. Roughly %30 of households own a firearm and its actually gone up over the last couple yrs after a decade of decline. I bet gun owners vote at a higher than the %50 national average. I'd say they're closer to %75. The NRA isn't my voice of reason and I don't agree with every policy they promote, but I will vote and write letters to anyone who wants to take away what I view as my right. I agree you have the right to do the same.
Why do you hate an inanimate object so much? I assume you've never fired a firearm, have you been shot? Had one pointed at you? Had a loved one kill themselves? There is a reason you hate firearms.
He's gone on the record numerous times that he hates Glocks. Your's truly OTOH better watch himself when traveling in California, the state I was born and raised in. I own a Glock with a 17 round magazine and I have been carrying it to most places I go for about twenty years now.
Please be sure to send me commissary money. lol
so he would still be subject to arrest should he ever venture out of DC to California.
Hey, since I know you appreciate irony , how about you and Willy being cellmates? LOL.
But this DOA bill just goes to show that there are legislators on the control side of the gun issue that are just as wacky as the NRA is on gun rights. That the bill got 39 votes I find amazing and that any California legislator would vote to make gun ownership by law aboding citizens a jailable offense at a time when they are releasing felons every day is even more amazing.
The pro choice crowd is as unlikely to support even a ban on fourth trimester abortions for the same reasons the pro 2nd amendment crowd won't give an inch, even on the right to own a fucking tank. The opposing side is obsessed with taking away ALL 2nd amendment rights, just like the anti abortion crowd considers ALL abortions to be murder. How are we supposed to reach any type of "common sense" compromise when both sides are dug in so deep?
If case you hadn't noticed, there is no "common sense debate" on these two issues.
60th or 70th trimester.
You are technically correct though about owning a tank. The original concept of the 2nd amendment was for the citizenry of the day to be armed at the same level as the standing armies of the day. Did you know there were private citizens in the 18th century U.S. that kept artillery pieces?
-- Modified on 9/14/2013 1:49:41 PM
lock up working, legal gun owners and let the supreme court decide it. Also if they were legal when purchased maybe the state should have to buy them back or replace the now illegal ones with legal ones?
No wonder why California is going broke.
Don't waste our time on something that may pass!
Lots of bills get introduced, many do not pass and become law.
First, I don't see where it mentions Glocks. And there have been California-legal Glocks for a long time now, they just come with a low capacity 10 round mag. A 17 round mag is NOT high capacity. It is the standard capacity for a Glock 17 (full sized 9mm Glock) and I believe a Glock 19 (compact 9mm Glock).
This applies to all handguns, not just Glocks. The California limit has been 10 rounds for a long, long time. What is unconstitutional is confiscation. It violates the 4th and 5th amendment. It's a bit absurd to propose a law that throws people in jail for owning something protected by the Constitution. It would be like throw people in jail for going to church.
But, yes, as GaG mentioned, I have a deep hatred of Glocks, with their shitty polymer frames and shitty sticky triggers. I don't like striker-fired handguns regardless, but particularly polymers. Will anyone pass their Glocks down to their grandchildren when the polymer starts failing apart from age? I don't think so.
As far as I'm concerned, a gun should be heavy and cold when you pick it up. That's why I'm a Beretta guy, all the way. I could see why GaG would like Glocks, since he probably has little Asian man hands. Maybe if we're cell mates he can give me a massage, lol. (sorry, couldn't resist)
-- Modified on 9/15/2013 9:48:00 AM
I don't have large hands and the Glock fits well in my hands. I bought my first Glock as a replacement for a Beretta Compact that I had stolen some twenty years ago, and while I agree that the Beretta is a superior firearm, the Glock has just grown on me over the years.
One other thing about the Glock is that even though I put in very little range time, I have no problems putting them all in the black at 25 yds, something that always required a bit more practice to achieve with my Beretta compact.
A pistol that's really a joke is the "James Bond" Walther PPK,(my first handgun at age 11) I dare anyone to even hit the paper at 25 yards, much less put them all in the black. Even with practice I could barely put them all in the paper at 15 yards, something my father insisted on me acheiving before he'd let me near any of his Rugers. He had all three of the biggies a 357, a .41 and of course the Grand Daddy .44 Magnum. Back when my eyes were better I used to practice with the 44 at 100 yards with a fucking handgun. lol
That's why I like Berettas. I have fairly large hands with long fingers. These days when I pick up a Glock it feels like a damn stick. But I swear, I can't fucking stand polymer. If I were a fan of the Glock design I think I'd go for a Kahr K9. Nicer trigger, IMHO, all metal, and it looks good.
Yeh, I've noticed the same thing about the PPK. I borrowed one off a friend, and while I rather like the German engineering, it's has a pretty shitty sight radius. I bought a Bersa Thunder 380, which is a Argentinian knock off of the PPK a while back to use as a carry piece, but I couldn't hit shit with it. Things were better with a laser sight, but if I have to rely on a laser, I'm not going to rely on it for carry. I carry a Beretta Cougar now. Sure, it almost weighs 3 fucking pounds loaded, but fuck it. It's not like I'm gonna run a marathon with it.
Besides...it's pretty. And the trigger? Like fucking butter.
-- Modified on 9/15/2013 8:49:03 PM
I'll agree I prefer a stainless 1911 to a glock but their polymers and all new polymers are pretty good. From my understanding of glock polymers 300+ yrs should be realistic. I've heard more about slide and barrel wear. Here is an excerpt from a glock forum about there frame life.
"So what's the verdict: does polymer degrade over time or not?"
Well, as an aerospace engineer, I work with metals embedded in polymers in all sorts of sophisticated, top-secret military applications. So, I am very well-qualified to answer this concern....
Yes, age alone will steadily de-polymerize the plastic in a GLOCK, until it is reduced to dust. The process is called "quantum-mechanical entropic decay," and it attacks all engineering materials that are more complex than single atoms.
Oxygen, especially ozone, viciously attacks the polymer frame of a GLOCK from the moment that it comes out of the mold. This damage can be retarded only by storing your GLOCKs in a "vacuum safe" -- a gun safe with a built-in high-efficiency vacuum pump that removes the air down to no more than 10.3 micro-millibars of atmospheric pressure.
(Try to shoot your GLOCKs only on indoor ranges that don't have much airflow, or better yet, on ranges without any air present at all. Your bullets will lose velocity more slowly on such air-less ranges as well.)
Metal embedded in polymer (the frame rails on your GLOCK) is constantly being attacked, deep in the frame where you can't see it, by "molecular acids" that form at the interface between the polymer and the metal. This hidden failure mode can cause the frame rails to tear out of the frame when you least expect it. You can tell how badly this is happening to your GLOCK by looking for it -- if you don't see anything, the hidden damage is getting very serious, and catastrophic failure is likely imminent.
Also, stray electrical currents are set up in your GLOCK by the contact between the electrically insulative polymer and the electrically conductive metal. This eats away at the metal parts of the GLOCK. This is the same micro-galvanic decay process that destroys your home's water heater -- but unlike water heater makers, GLOCK intentionally does not provide a replaceable sacrificial annode on his guns. Planned obsolescence by G2, don't you know....
All of these processes are constantly at work in your GLOCK, degrading it, and will destroy it totally in about, oh, say, 50,000,000 years -- give or take a few tens of thousands of years....
(In case the above is too subtle, I am kidding -- except about the 50,000,000 years part.
Yes, age and exposure to moisture, light, and air will slowly degrade the engineering polymers used in handguns, but not at a rate that is of any concern on human timescales.)
-ET
(different post)
another excerpt from the same link http://glocktalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=480897:
I'm not sure if you are kidding about being an aerospace engineer as well as the rest. If not, maybe you could answer the question I've had about how much heat the polymer in a Glock can withstand on a day after day basis. Say, from being left in a car that is in the sun in 110 - 120 degree heat. I haven't been able to find anything that tells me just how hot the interior of a car gets in those conditions...
Yes, I really am an aerospace engineer -- although I am not formally trained as a polymer specialist.
If you want a serious specific answer about effects of "temperature soaking" on GLOCK polymer, here it is -- I can't answer specifically about the exact polyamide that GLOCK uses, because it is proprietary and Gaston won't tell anyone exactly what it is.
But, I can answer generically, since I believe that GLOCK probably uses a proprietary varient of cast (not extruded) Nylon 6. This substance, which in its cast form is actually partially crystalline like a metal, can be manipulated to obtain a wide range of balance between such physical properties as "glass transition point" (G-sub-T), melting point, and max % of water absorbtion.
Since G2 himself is a polymer chemist, no doubt he manipulates his Nylon 6 variant (itself a varient of DuPont's proprietary Nylon 6,6 -- remember the Remington Nylon 66 rifle?) to achieve a balance of these properties that he feels is ideal for his firearms.
Ever notice the rock-hard yet still slightly "waxy" feel to the surface of a new GLOCK right out of the box? To a polymer chemist, that feel tells you that Gaston Glock really knows his polymers.
From the surface feel, I suspect that Gaston Glock probably found a way to push his GLOCK frame material well towards the polyphthalamide (PPA) point, thus reducing the tendency towards water absorbtion while still also elevating BOTH the melting point and the T-sub-G point.
Both yield-strength and the stiffness of the finished material are enhanced by this. This would be done by chemically manipulating the separation of the amide groups within the polymer, thus enhancing the final strength of the resulting hydrogen-bonding within the cast crystal matrix.
Now, back to your question: ordinary cast Nylon 6 melts at around 500 degrees F. Gaston's custom-blended meterial is probably more like a Nylon 4/6, or even close to a PPA, which means that it is stiffer and melts higher, around 550 degrees F or even more. (By the way if somebody is willing to melt their GLOCK and tell us the exact temp at which it melts, we will know more about it.)
So the temps inside your enclosed car (probably about 140 degrees F max inside in summer) will not come anywhere near melting your GLOCK. The bigger concern is that a prolonged "soak" in that temperature range would degrade the primers and powder in your onboard ammo.
Another variable with the effect of a 140 degree F heat soak on your GLOCK frame is the temperature at which the GLOCK factory molds are run. This would determine the degree of solid-state crystallization achieved upon curing, and the residual internal stresses left within the frame -- i.e., if there are a lot of internal stresses left over from casting, the gun might warp during a prolonged heat soak long before if melted.
But, we have to assume that Gaston, clever boy that he is, runs his molds at a fairly high temperature matched to his polymer blend, so as to achieve both sufficient solid-state crystallization and also some decent degree of stress-relief upon cooling of the cast frames.
See why not just everybody can make a polymer gun like GLOCK? Sort of gives you a newfound respect for our boy G2, no?
So after all of this, the short answer to your question is, your GLOCK will survive temps far beyond anything your ammo can, but you should not leave your ammo in a hot car for too long.
(By the way, never ever put your GLOCK in a dishwasher on the hot cycle. All polyamides, even PPAs, will absorb up to about 2 or 3 percent by weight of hot water, when heated above about 145 degrees F. So while the dishwasher water won't melt anything, it will permanently add water inside the polymer matrix between the polymer strands, which while it will not wreck it, is not especially good for it.)
-E