I have not formed a firm opinion on this because I no doubt do not know all the facts.  But, as I look at Egypt where we donate billions, we supported the uprising throwing our old allie under the bus, gave apology speech in this country, and now they attack our embassy.. WTF  ... Then I see Libya does same thing... after all we did to help them... Then there is Pakistan who gets tons of money, a so called allie and they harbor Osama, attack us every change they get...  Then I see Obama cold shoulders Israel almost weekly nowadays...

Certainly appears to me like we seem to be on the wrong side of what's good for the US in most matters of foreign policy.

Mr. Laffy,

Please help me understand why it is that on virtually every post that someone creates, you have to reply with nothing but hatred for "righties".  You virtually never answer the questions being posed, you never offer any logical thought process for why you believe whatever it is you believe.

Now the question posed was whether or not Obama deserved any criticism, and you totally go off on some tangent that has nothing to do with the question.  Why must you do that?

Why is it that if you really don't want to participate in the thread that is posted by keeping to the topic of the thread, then why can't you just go start your own thread with the topic you want to discuss and stay out of the ones that you don't want to address in a way that stays on topic.

You really are a pain in the ass by some of what you do on these threads.

It was a good thing and a smart thing to throw Mubarak under the bus. He's a dying man, who was losing is grip on power. Plus, add to the fact that Mubarak was a brutal bastard to his own people, and that a democratic Egypt will expand US power in the Middle East, then it's a win-win. Libya is posed to become an ally, which seemed unthinkable not too long ago. Of course that didn't stop Republicans like John McCain and Lindsey Graham from meeting with Gaddafi, a terrorist who had killed Americans.

It was the Bush administration that really got cosy with Pakistan, despite that they were harboring bin Laden. It was McCain who said we couldn't launch attacks on Pakistan's soil. Instead, Obama played hardball with Pakistan, and he took out bin Laden.

The simple fact of the matter is that with the Middle East moving in a democratic direction, than Israel simply becomes less important. If we got off our oil addiction, we could pay about as much attention to Israel as we do Mongolia. I'd call that a win-win.

Well, OK, granted the belief seemed to be that Egypt, Libya were switching to democracy.  I guess in theory that's better than dictatorship from a pie in the sky viewpoint... I'm not sure that's what really has happened, and I'm really not seeing how if it were true that they are now democratic that this has turned out to be a good thing for the US.

Now it was a bit more reassuring that the Libyan government officials condemed the assault on our embassy.  But does make me wonder if the people they govern actually think their government is calling the shots.  And just exactly where was the government while the Embassy was under assault for many hours before they showed up?  Do they really have a democracy in the sense that they are now amongst the community of nations or have they changed a name and it's still bulley rule.  And as for Egypt, yes, they did have an election but doesn't look like it really changed the government.  They look more like Iran than any democracy.  They have a government but seems that the muslim clerics are actually in charge, and like Iran, it's the clerics calling the shots, not any government.  And I don't think we've had any condemnation from any of them for what their people have done.

Sure looks like to me that as far as what's good for the US, we were better off without these so-called democracies.  And as for Pakistan, I certainly stand with Obama for the military actions he has authorized to chase down the enemy, and if McCain actually did what you say, then to hell with him in my book.  But on the foreign policy front I don't see much progress in winning them over to be a true friend and allie.  Is that Obama's fault?

Now Israel is a very different matter.  Sort of like a marriage.  Do we really turn our back on them in their time of need.  Is that how friends should act?  Have they ever turned their back on us?  Granted there may not be much need for an allie in the mideast if all the things you mention came to pass, but do we really want to divorce our long time friend?

And just one last thought, what you say is the best foreign policy in a long time, I actually don't think that where we are today with regard to Libya and Egypt had much to do with Obama's foreign policy... he was taken completely off guard and really had nothing to do with what happened as I recall.  After it was underway, he donated our aircraft to Libya true but he didn't do that until the French and British begged him for help.  So, I don't give Obama much credit for that aspect.

there is no country in the middle east that respects us! u gotta have some'brass' as billy c said last week. we're weak-kneed and everyone knows it.

an ambassador + 3 other embassy staff killed and the o-man pauses to give a couple minute speech and rolls off to a fundraiser??? that's brass?
4 other coutnries now demonstrating against US....not a word 'cause he's on AF one drinking fine wine and nibbling on caviar.  another great show!

That's not your only problem! When you start using "they" when talking about Egypt, or Libya, do you mean the people of those countries, the government of those countries, the small groups responsible for attacking our embassies? Talking in global terms does nothing to enhance any discussion on the topic!  

typical leftie.


You're welcome
2012 = GOP


also your catherters no doubt have burrs.

Yor're Welcome
2012 = GOP

He’s doing exactly what he intends. He has no interest whatsoever in any form of discussion. He simply wants to disrupt and teach "Righties" a lesson by giving back to them what he sees them dishing up. He has admitted as much in earlier posts. He’s a troll of the worst kind and a very low form of bigot. The irony is that in his mind he thinks quite the opposite of himself.

pathetic performance. total lack of leadership.

ironic, moved his talk indoors 'due to weather'.
weather was sunny.
moved because crowds were 'no shows'.
his bubble is bursting.

of course you wouldn't want to know about israel training american troops before the kuwait and iraqi invasions, you wouldn't want to know about israel sending the US ammunition and humvees during the iraqi occupation.....you wouldnt want to know about israeli intelligence giving the US a MIG 21 to take apart and explore during the cold war......

the list is far longer than you'll be able to accept.........

democracy?....where? Egypt has firmly been taken over by the muslim brotherhood. A theocratic based political party that firmly rejects western democracy and have waited since the 1930s for this moment. They are not going to betray their own valus now that they finally have power.  Lybia is developing in a militia land where different groups stake out their land, and none have anything to do with western democracy...just ask them.

Syria is not moving towards democracy....al quida and friends are all there, waiting to pick up the spoils if assad cant keep it together. Hamas, a theorcartic govt took gaza, also rejects western democracy. The PA in the westbank has Shari law as its foundation.....Iran is holding strong as a fanatic theocratic govt that hangs homosexuals....

the sole bit of truth in your post that is grounded is getting the US off its middle east oil addition.....the rest is wishful thinking