Well, this was a good a day to be anti-zionist. And to savor a little schandenfreude.
The UK gov't, no doubt embarrassed by the disclosure of Israel's use of stolen UK identities, expelled the Israeli embassy official who is presumed to be the Mossad station chief.
Hip! Hip! Horray! Draw me a pint of piss-warm beer in honor of the Brits. Not that this show of backbone and common sense is going to start a trend, mind you.
Check out the predictably outraged cries of anguish by the zionist politico quoted in the last paragraph. To think, someone, somewhere has suggested that this here particular emperor is buck naked and flapping in the breeze!
My only question is when Israel uses the stolen identities of unwitting Americans to whack and terminate various Pallys and other alleged terorist malefactors, what will POTUS Obama do? Make another command appearance before AIPAC? Get a bigger Israel/US flagpin for his lapel? Get an israeli flag tattooed on his bicep? Promote Dennis Ross?
And will Speaker Pelosi and clowns like Steny Hoyer and Eddie Cantor trip over their bovine feet in their clumsy efforts to give Bibi a conqueror's welcome in Congress?
Britain kicks out Mossad chief
by Paul Woodward on March 23, 2010
After a recent warning from US military leaders that Israel is putting at risk the lives of American soldiers in the Middle East, the British government has warned that actions by Israel present “a hazard for the safety of British nationals in the region.”
This latest warning comes after a criminal investigation has concluded that Israel stole the identities of 12 British citizens in order to murder the Hamas commander Mahmoud al-Mabhouh in Dubai in January. As a result of that investigation Britain today expelled an Israeli diplomat from London who is understood to be the UK-based Mossad chief.
From London, the Daily Telegraph reports:
An investigation by the Serious and Organised Crime Squad (SOCA) has concluded that there are “compelling reasons” to believe that Israel was responsible for the “misuse” of a dozen British passports.
A senior diplomat at the Israeli Embassy in London – widely believed to be a member of Mossad, the feared Israeli secret service agency – is being expelled from the Untied Kingdom as a result.
As the diplomatic row escalated, Mr Miliband told the House of Commons that he had demanded that the Israeli government give assurances that British citizens will never again be drawn into such an operation.
Describing the passport holders as “wholly innocent victims,” the Foreign Secretary aid that the fact that Israel was a “friend” of the United Kingdom added “insult to injury.
The British government has also taken the unusual step of warning British passport holders not to hand over their passports to Israeli officials unless “absolutely necessary.”
Since it’s impossible to enter any country without handing over your passport, perhaps this advice should be interpreted to mean that British citizens should only travel to Israel when absolutely necessary.
Aryeh Eldad, a National Religious Party member of the Knesset suggested that the British are worse than dogs when told Sky News: “I think [the] British are behaving hypocritically and I don’t want to offend dogs on this issue, since some dogs are utterly loyal, who are they to judge us on the war on terror?”
told AIPAC that the UNited States "condemns" Israel for housing project in the Holy City. I really think the Obama adminstration is one step away from abandoning Israel. Your getting wish buddy.
I never seen a President who disagrees so vocally with Israel polices as Obama. I wonder if a Jew will continue to vote Democratic if Obama abandons Israel? I really do not think President Obama cares about the Jewish vote, because he will let in 13 million new immigrants err voters all with higher birth rates.
the dysfunctional government of Israel - the announcement by the interior minister of new construction in East Jerusalem about an hour before VP Biden was to dine with the PM.
This was the stupidist thing I've seem them do in years and set back US Israel relations by a couple of decades. Now BN has to come to Washington with his hat in hand trying to repair relations.
And it is still unclear as to whether he was also caught by surprise by the interior minister's announcement. What a way to run a country.
Not to sound like Xaio, but setting back US Israel relations might not be that bad a thing. Regarding the Palestinian situation, Israel hasn't been an innocent party, and I believe that they do a lot of things with impunity because they believe the US will always support them. It's right for the US to be a strong ally of Israel, it's not right to turn a blind eye and let them have carte blanc.
A Dead Hammas thug is a good Hammas corpse!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1M4eH9Kk7I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpFaa80FpIQ
repeat your ninth grade class on international political science so you have a better understanding of the function of the Hamas organization in the Gaza Strip.
Hamas is part of the elected government, has active social programs, and has a paramilitary arm. Hamas spends 80 to 90% of its revenues on social programs including the funding and management of schools, health-care clinics, mosques, youth groups, athletic clubs and day-care centers. If these services were not provided by Hamas, no one would provide them- they at least make life bearable for some in Gaza.
The paramilitary wing is group of idiot hotheads who are responsible for great human tragedy as a result of their decision to fire missiles indiscriminately at Israel which led to the invasion and other unconscionable acts. These guys by all accounts are uncontrollable by the civic minded leaders and indeed deserve the label of terrorists, but don’t blame the rest of the organization for their bad deeds. We all have our Bushes and Cheneys, don’t we?
In fact, Great Britain and a few other countries classify only the paramilitary wing as terrorists, not the Hamas organization.
Class dismissed but make you sure you do your homework for tomorrow.
"Hamas is part of the elected government, has active social programs, and has a paramilitary arm. Hamas spends 80 to 90% of its revenues on social programs including the funding and management of schools"
Very much like the ex dictator Saddam Hussein and his sons..Lets not forget, not only was Saddam elected by his people he received 100% of the vote..
Eliminate Hammas if you want Peace...
Hamas outright refuses to recognize Israels right to exist.
Until the day they are willing to accept Israel's existence as a fact, until the day the Arabs stop propagandizing the lies of the Blood Libel, until the day Hamas Leadership calls for an end to the bloodshed against JEWS, UNTIL THAT DAY, as far as I am concerned, you are pouring water into a sieve, your argument is pointless, and the Xiaominglover1's of the world remain my enemies.
With all due respect, you need to do a little homework of your own, Marikod.
human" and in effect that "the only good Hamas is a dead one."
That is the context in which I posted and most certainly my argument is not "pointless" but in fact is an accurate rebuttal of a very uninformed opinion. You may as well as say, as most do on this Board that the Black Panthers are a bunch of murders bc of the acts of a few, notwithstanding that 90% of the organization was nonviolent the community services provided by the many.
And yes the founding documents of Hamas call for an end to Israel and yes that is just as deplorable, just as the founding documents of the United States that condoned slavery are deplorable. But the majority of members of this organization are social workers and political leaders, not murderers.
I won't deny I believe Hammas is not human..
I also won't deny slavery was despicable,however it was a World wide practice in uncivilized times.
Hammas is living in more civilized times where no legal slavery exists, yet they are uncivilized in their targets of children.
To be Fair, Kill all the leaders of Militant Hammas first, and if the social worker members that take their place also attack Israeli children,kill them also..
No Big Deal
Long Live Mossad
P.S.. AchmienDeanofJihad was also spelled correctly.
And be sure to explain to him that Hamas does not "target children" -the paramilitary wing simply fires missiles indiscriminately that may hit children but have neer actually done so as far as I can tell. Not even the Goldstone Report makes that charge.
Fortunately, they are not accurate as we are when we fire drone missiles at school houses when we are trying to kill a "suspected terrorist." According to Goldstone, only 3 Israelis were killed by Palestinian missiles since 2008, none of whom were children.
Do you want to know how many children the United States has killed with drone attacks? I didn't think so....
Hamas has indeed "targeted children". They have taken responsibility for (i.e. boasted about) bombs set on school buses and at school bus stops. Since the fence/wall went up it has been far more difficult to penetrate Israel individually to target schools, blow up buses etc. Now they can only lob missiles which are not as accurate.
Its not that they do not target children, they are simply less able to do so now.
And acting as if Hamas has a handful of rogue terrorists in an otherwise socially-mindful organization is just silly. The Mafia also owned legitimate business --- as a way to launder their money. It didn't make them any less of a criminal organization. Hamas is a terrorist organization that just so happens to also provide some degree of social service to sway support for their activities. And they've used violence against their own people as well when they did not support them. They have also, as an organization, come out in support of Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad and others, who set off bombs and used sniper attacks inside Israel.
What I said in the post was the Hamas did not target children post-2008 in the missile attacks made on Israel. This statement is based on the findings of Mr. Goldstone in his report where he does not make this charge, as well as the responding statements of the Hamas political leadership in Feb 2010 where they reiterate they have urged the militants not to attack civilians:
“In spite of the fact that the Palestinian government emphasized the right of the occupied Palestinian people to resist and for self defence as approved by the international law and the UN charter, and notwithstanding the difficulties in most cases to contact these groups [Palestinian armed groups], the Palestinian government [of Hamas] in Gaza has more than once urged the Palestinian armed groups to refrain from attacking civilians. The Palestinian armed groups announced their commitment to abide by the international humanitarian law, and in their announcements published in the media and on websites it was declared that they attack military targets and refrain from targeting civilians. Any allegation in this regard [raised against the Palestinian armed groups] should be documented with evidence...
So that is the current official policy of Hamas.
I presume what you are referring to the are the suicide attacks carried out by militants prior to 2006 which were made on anyone in sight including school buses.
What you neglected to mention is that the political leadership of Hamas expressly rejected suicide attacks in 2006. That has been the official position of the elected leadership since that date. To the extent that such attacks occurred since that date, the political leadership has not condoned them. They have no ability to control the terrorists in the paramilitary wing.
And no, it is not silly to act as if Hamas has a handful of rogue terrorists in an otherwise socially-mindful organization. Those are the facts – again, according to two different sources, 90% of its resources are spent on social programs. ^ "Hamas" - Council on Foreign Relations. Updated January 7, 2009; "Approximately 90 percent of its work is in social, welfare, cultural, and educational activities, writes the Israeli scholar Reuven Paz." ^ [1] - "What is Hamas?" Pierre Tristam, About.com: Middle East Issues; "'up to 90% of [Hamas] resources and staff were devoted to public-service enterprises' (according to Robin Wright in Dreams and Shadows: The Future of the Middle East (Penguin Press, 2008)."
That doesn’t sound like the Mafia to me. Hamas is not the Mafia, and they are not al Queda either.
i
But as someone who supports Israel's right to exist, their beahvior has not been "exactly exempelary" of late.. If one follows the news lately one knows what I'm talking about. My opinion links up with Fast Eddie on this one. I don't believe in blindly following a country "right or wrong, be it the U.S or Israel.
That's one of the reasons I don't want to tangle with Xiao now-----apparently he has his own "obsessive
agendas" he's dealing with-------I have my suspicions why he's doing this, but better left unsaid. He's best to be ignored------I find him to be a fucking bore who seems to need to get laid REAL bad------------
-- Modified on 3/24/2010 6:02:56 PM
but Quad's post that treats Hamas as being the functional equivalent of al Queda, without recognizing that the political leadership rejects attacks on civilans, has no ability to control the militants who do, and that official policy on terrorism changed in 2006.
Are they a bunch of angels? No, but I did have to spank Quad for effectively saying that the only good Hamas is a dead one.
The United States and Britain have both been more than merely allies of Israel for a very long time.
The United States has most certainly, and in many ways, treated Israel better than it would have treated any other country under equivalent circumstances.
Israel routinely breaks UN Resolutions, and instead of bombing the shit out of them as we have other countries, we give them weapons and billions of dollars. We even run interference for them at the UN in blocking many negative votes.
And how is our largess repaid?
By Israel constantly placing spies within and around our government.
Talk about biting the hand that feeds you.
Then Israel adds insult to injury by having an Israeli-partisan organization like the ADL that receives US Government funding lobby for the release of those spies.
And this situation with the UK is similar. The UK is not a lockstep Likudist camp; but it has assuredly been a friend of Israel in many ways for many years.
Israel should start treating the U.S. and U.K. like cherished friends, rather than as likely enemies.
Otherwise, they will ultimately create a self-fulfilling prophecy.
The BBC is openly unabashedly, and unapologetically anti-Semitic, synagogues in Great Britain are valdalized or burned to the ground with no consequences to the perpetrators, and you have the gall to claim the UK is in bed with Israel?
Congratulations, johngalt, you had me fooled. I always thought you were just a typical new hamphire live free or die kinda guy. Never figured you'd be baffled by the bullshit of the Xiaoming's and other haters.
Fuck me, I've been consorting with the enemy.
Shalom
The BBC is NOT "openly anti-semitic"
Which country provided the Balfour Declaration? The UK.
The fact that anti-Semitic INCIDENTS attributable to INDIVIDUALS have occurred in the UK does NOT mean that the UK is an anti-Semitic country.
For your information, there is a difference, though it may be lost on you, between wanting to gas Jews and send them up smokestacks, and disagreeing with the actions of a sovereign nation -- to wit, Israel.
Now, let me go look up matzo ball soup recipes for passover. Idiot.
I tire of your antics of, instead of addressing the issue at hand, pointing your finger at the individual who disagrees with you (especially about Israel), and hysterically yelling: "anti-Semite!"
Calling someone a name is NOT an argument and it is NOT a defense. It's just a way of diverting debate away from the FACTUAL matter of Israel's misconduct.
It is a degeneration into ad hominems; which is essentially an admission that you cannot dispute the facts in question.
It doesn't hurt ME. It just makes YOU look like the hysterical nutjobs in Salem pointing their fingers at innocent people and yelling "Witch!"
You seem to be constantly looking for anti-Semites and hyper-sensitized for some reason. You think everyone you think might not be Jewish is just a hair's-breadth away from setting up a gas chamber in his basement.
But let me make something crystal clear to you.
I was not *your* enemy. However, if you TREAT me like an enemy long enough, I will become one. Then it will become a self-fulfilling prophecy and you'll never be able to establish a point of reference that will let you see you were wrong to start with.
Yeah, all the anti-Semites I know take their screen names from characters defined by Jewish philosophers. Can you REALLY be that stupid? Yeah, I guess you are.
Maybe you should actually educate yourself on a non-Likudnik aspect of these issues by checking out Brit Tzedek v'Shalom, among whose members I am numbered.
NOW -- I am going to try ONE TIME to lay this out for you in simple terms hopefully even YOU can understand.
Israel is a state. A FOREIGN state. While some people like to define it as a "Jewish state;" you probably know that there are many Arabic Israeli citizens whose interests are represented in the Knesset.
Israel, as a state, has its own unique interests -- just like any other state.
And, just like any other state, it's interests might not coincide with OURS. And it's behaviors may or may not be in the long-term best interests of people of Jewish descent outside of its borders.
Who is OURS? AMERICANS.
In cases where Israeli interests run counter to American interests; it is the job of America and Americans to put AMERICA first. This applies not just to Israel -- but to ANY foreign state.
FURTHERMORE, opposition to the behaviors of Israel as a state do NOT automatically equate to "hating Jews;" any more than opposition to the behaviors of Syria constitute automatically "hating Arabs." (For the record I oppose a great many of Syria's behaviors for good reason.)
In fact, the case could reasonably be made that opposition to certain of Israel's more controversial behaviors is GOOD to DISPEL anti-Semitism.
Use your brain. Doctor. If you can see past your partisanship far enough to employ it.
FURTHERMORE, let me explain opposition to Israel in Europe for you; because you seem to have such tunnel vision that you think Jew-hatred is the only explanation.
Europe is a very LIBERAL and SOCIALIST place. Liberalism and socialism are UNIVERSALIST in nature and extremely hostile to things such as ethnocentrism, ethnopreference and most certainly ethno-states. Hell, we went to war in the Balkans to prevent the formation of an ethno-state if you will recall.
Although Israel isn't really an ethno-state, it damned sure tries. This doesn't sit well with people who have essentially been taught from birth that ANY opposition to "diversity" is EVIL and RACIST.
Since they are universalist in nature; they can't see their way clear to say "Diversity is good for us, but bad for Israel." It doesn't sit well with them that Israel can have a "Jews and gentiles cannot marry" policy; but even PROPOSING such policies in their own country would get them charged with "Inciting Racial Hatred."
Universalist Liberalism is INCOMPATIBLE with the very idea of an ethno-state. And Universalist Liberalism permeates Europe.
THUS the opposition to Israel.
I am NOT denying that anti-Semitic incidents occur in Europe. And that is really horrible. But don't make the mistake of equating the actions of a relative handful of individuals with the policies of countries. MOST countries in Western Europe hold commemoration of the Holocaust so sacrosanct that it is the ONLY event in history that if a citizen questions it, he can be put in jail. That sort of legislation does NOT equate to anti-Semitism. If anything, it is the opposite.
And, again, opposition to Israeli actions is NOT the same thing as plotting to murder innocent children at a Jewish daycare center or the like.
I must say, Dr. Gonzo, you have really pissed me off with your closed-minded witch-hunting and your attempt to shortcut debate through name-calling.
You call me "Enemy." Fine. That is YOUR decision -- and I have no choice but to consider you mine if you continue in this vein.
But you are NOT my enemy because of your ethnicity. After all, that would make nearly everyone in my family an enemy too. LMFAO that you never figured that out.
Rather, you are an enemy because your own narrow-minded assholish idiocy led you to name me your enemy without even realizing where you were treading.
Congratulations for demonstrating that narrow-minded cranks can get doctorate degrees.
johngaltnh,"Congratulations for demonstrating that narrow-minded cranks can get doctorate degrees."
I'm not really trying to be a wise guy, however I learned the above very well by fourth grade, and they knew well,they were Holy Doctorates..
Something tells me you guys are getting serious.
Cheers..
I have a doctorate too. Which makes me a SERIOUSLY narrow minded crank! (*grin*)
I truly hope this doesn't get TOO serious.
I hope he gets what I am saying and withdraws his vendetta because I'd rather be friends than enemies.
johngaltnh, "I truly hope this doesn't get TOO serious."
I'm very jealous of Doc...I thoroughly enjoy the not so subtle banter, and I have never even come close to a lamblasting, as the one you inflicted on him tonight..
In Docs defense he is genuine, and it does become personal, when it looks as if the World is slowly but surely, uniting against your people..
Thats what this ninth grader is looking at.
to what John said, and was wildly inaccurate on the facts.
While I have a slightly different viewpoint than John on the incident in question bc GB and the US by some accounts use false passports in counter opps against al queda, I deplore Israel's conduct in targeted assassinations just as I deplore such conduct by the United States.
marikod"I deplore Israel's conduct in targeted assassinations"
Are you serious?? Its not like Mabhouh was a Government offficial of a legitimate country..
Were you upset and "deplorable" when the Munich operatives were killed one at a time ??
I thought Committee X did a fine job..
Long Live Mossad
squads to assassinate their opponents? If Israel can assassinate Hamas members in Dubai, then Hamas can turn around and murder Jewish leaders in the United States.
And why should we limit our targeted assassinations to drone attacks in Pakistan and Aghanistan?
Shouldn't we establish a special agency for this? Or how about
the Department of Homeland Assassinations?
We are talking about policy here Dude. What exactly does your policy accomplish but a lot of dead bodies and more hatred in the world?
marikod "So Quad you want to live in a world where governments dispatch
squads to assassinate their opponents? If Israel can assassinate Hamas members in Dubai, then Hamas can turn around and murder Jewish leaders in the United States.'
And why should we limit our targeted assassinations to drone attacks in Pakistan and Aghanistan?
What exactly does your policy accomplish but a lot of dead bodies and more hatred in the world? "
I only condone the killings of ruthless rogue killers or their leaders.. I don't consider Hammas a legitimate government but merely a terrorist organization, that buys votes with aid dollars, and openly promotes the destruction of Israel..
I am not into violence and I would not seek to be a vigilante, but if some group came into the edges of my neighborhood and started lobbing grenades or even randomly shooting arrows with only a occasional innocents death,I would feel a urgent need to remove all of them from the living, so my neighborhood would be able to live in Peace..