One of the reasons why I consider Iran to be one of the most dangerous & barbaric countries on earth.
Let's see marikod try to spin this.
-- Modified on 10/10/2011 4:46:39 PM
90 lashes and one year in jail or any sentence in the California prison system?
From the Supreme Court opinion:
“Because of a shortage of treatment beds, suicidal inmates may be held for prolonged periods in telephone-booth sized cages without toilets.
A prisoner with severe abdominal pain died after a 5-week delay in referral to a specialist; a prisoner with "constant and extreme" chest pain died after an 8-hour delay in evaluation by a doctor; and a prisoner died of testicular cancer after a "failure of MDs to work up for cancer in a young man with 17 months of testicular pain."
A correctional officer testified that, in one prison, up to 50 sick inmates may be held together in a 12-by 20-foot cage for up to five hours awaiting treatment.”
BTW, the Iran sentence has been appealed and the court will undoubtedly eliminate the 90 lashes just as they did the stoning. That is the way the Iran justice system works- they have crazy guys as the trial judges but more reasonable guys on appeal.
But we are in agreement on one point- I hate those dangerous and barbaric countries too.
But if you get sick in a California prison, God help you- there is no right of appeal there.
I don't see the U.S. carrying out harsh sentences
for appearing in "unpatriotic films" or sentencing people to "stoning for adultery" ( those sentences HAVE been carried out in the recent past, IE, '05 & '09 )
I don't condone harsh treatment for Ca prisoners, but you conveniently neglected to say what they were charged with. Certainly not adultery, homosexuality or being "unpatriotic". NOT analogous situations.
I find it most curious that you persistently make
"moral equivalencies" between the U.S. & Iran.
and I don't recall making any "moral equivalencies" between the two countries.
Because Islamic law controls over secular law, Iran is subject to being controlled by men who interpret religious law to serve their own ends and many injustices result. But when I see you and MrNogood pulling headlines without acknowledgement of context, I usually have something to remind you about.
I find it quite interesting that a number of posters on this Board have highlighted injustices in the Iran legal system but NO ONE besides myself has ever acknowledged the problems in our own prison systems, particularly California. You know, we can fix those- we can't fix the ones in Iran.
Our injustices don't make the Iranian injustices right
but should be acknowledged before we decry conditions in Iran.
You don't have a problem with context, do you?
You have to answer truthfully. What is it with your almost monthly fixation on California's prison system and property tax? You don't live in California, so it must relate to your work, or you have a family member incarcerated in the prison system. Truthfully mari, what the hell is with these 2 topics? And don't say you have a fondness for the state because you played b-ball in Manhattan Beach or something. That shit won't fly.
nor water boarded by the Bush admin either, and Roman Polanski is not one of my friends.
We are talking questions of policy, so I don't need to have a personal stake in the outcome. I used to live in LA, travel there frequently, and subscribe to the LA Times, so I tend to be more familiar with California issues than say, anything happening in Georgia.
and I was born and raised there.
Come on Mari, fess up. There is more to it than you are alluding to, and we all know it.
Lived in L.A. long time, before moving myself over 5 years ago. You don't see me bringing up
Ca issues.
I also find it puzzling that he's an apologist for a theocratic/dictatorship/terrorist state.
Lastly, his response to me was total bullshit.
in California, and he gets hammered like he's mrnogood!!!
Shit, Mari, tough crowd tonight.
Just remember, whatever you do, don't give Pri total bullshit!!! lol
bullshit. He's already got enough of his own to go around. (awaiting his snide remarks, lmfao. Oh, and perhaps a photo as well).
My point being that Iran is a theocratic dictatorship/terrorist state that's a threat to world peace.
Care to comment on this, or is this something you don't have knowledge of ? You were around during Iran hostage crisis of 79-early '81, so I would think it's something you'd have some knowledge of.
It's no longer a secret, been too many years after I signed the papers, but I was in Iran many times. Teheran was a routine destination for the C-141 during the Shah's tenure. Mostly US Embassy support misions.
For the hostage crisis, not commonly known, because as I mentioned, at the time, it was top secret, but there were 3 SOLL II qualified C-141s at an isolated airstrip, about 50 miles northwest of Teheran, waiting to fly the hostages, and any others needed, out of the country. This was after the helicopters had brought them from Teheran. We sat with all engines running for hours, ready for immediate take-off with the hostages. You know that never happened. Getting in and out of Iran was easy, as the US had given the Shah their radar systems, installed it, and we knew where the holes were in the radar coverage. We would file a flight plan to HXXX, and arriving there, cancel the flight plan, descend to 100 feet AGL, and fly inbound to the destination at 350 knots IAS. The airstrip was built by US Army engineers during one of their exercises with the Shah's army. There's always a method to our madness, lol.
After the helicopter collided with the C-130 while repositioning to refuel from the C-130, we were given orders to depart.
My experience with the Iranians was always positive. They were intensely curious about western culture, especially the younger generation. The Shah kept the Ayatollahs under the rule of his secret police. They had nowhere near the power they do now. The Shah's regime was no kinder and gentler than the Ayatollahs current system. Anyone opposed to the Shah's government was most likely to disappear in the middle of the night, never to be seen again. As a general rule, those supporting the Shah, lived very well.I still have several Iranian friends I keep in touch with. One of which I taught to fly, and he now flies for Delta. (he's a USA citizen now). Most of them remain living in Paris.
I'd tell you how Ollie North got there several times to negotiate the Iran/Contra bit, but mattrad would get very upset. He hates North. Can't blame him, really.
Btw, while in Teheran, we stayed at the Hotel Intercontinental. There were always a half dozen or so young ladies in the bar, advertising their wares. Some were very HOTTT too. That wouldn't be happening now.
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are actually on par with your self- proclaimed "detective skills."
"Total bullshit" says it all. You certainly won that debate.
But if you ever find yourself in any debates where something more than "total bullshit is required, may I suggest you consult Mr. Nogood on how to structure an argument? He could teach you a lot.
or mine, for that matter.
Perhaps you'd like to explain why you're SO concerned about Ca penal system, when no longer resident of that state & why you're such a persistent "apologist" for Iran.
You've been evasive on these questions previoulsy;
what are you afraid of ? I think being candid on these matters would clarify things for many on this board.
from a state in which he no longer lives. Yet almost all of the libs and quasi-libs on this board were obsessed with the protests in Wisconsin last winter even though none of them lived anywhere close to that state.
Just more hypocrisy. Pretty common coming from that direction . . . .
Mari has made dozens of posts on the plight of prisoners in the California penal system. California can't possibly be the only state in this country with such problems, but it's the only one that Mari seems to care about. Which begs the question, Why?
and you know full well Wisconsin was front page news at the time, California prisons are hardly "front page news.
PW we all know you dislike Pri, but Pri is not the only one asking these questions.
where the United States Supreme Court has ordered the state prison system to release prisoners because conditions are constitutionally deficient.
California prisons ARE front page news. You just haven't been paying attention. And the now the first wave of parolees released are starting to commit crimes and I am predicting that a major crime wave is going to ensue in the next couple of years as more and more prisoners are released.
So sorry if you were looking for a confession that Charlie Manson is my secret older brother, that's going to happen.
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Obviously you haven't answered my original question. Personally, I would water board the shit out of you, but I know how many on this board, including all liberals, would decry the use of such a barbaric practice. Shit, I would've served chardonnay and sushi, maybe even a buffet to entice Pria to show. (lol).
How about something more practical? A bet!!!! No doubt you think there will be a marauding bands of ex-prisoners raping and pillaging the local villages. At the end of the 2012, we will compare crime statistics. We can use the published data for 2010 and compare against 2012. We will only use the 4 categories of violent crime...homicide, forcible rape, robbery, and assault. The bet is $500. If 2012 violent crimes in total are at least 25% higher than 2010, you win. If not, I win. Also, if I win, you can never ever ever post anything on California Corrections again.
I'm giving you a real sweet deal. Crime in 2010 is 50% less than at its height in the 1990-1992 timeframe. FYI, total violent crimes in 1992 was 197K, and in 2010 it was 97K. Mari, you just need to get to 121K. Piece of cake.
You want to parlay this with a Duke/UCLA bet?
The state has too few revenues and too many mandated obligations. No one is addressing the real problem, which is they have given away the store in terms of salary, pensions and health care obligations to public employees but don't have the revenues to pay for it. Read the article I posted further down the page by Michael Lewis, "California and Bust," if you want to know what's behind this. Hint: the head of psychiatry for the Cal. prison system makes more than $800K a year.
who is being unfair to Marikod in this thread.
This is supposed to be a board for people to express their thoughts. Not one where others demand replies from them about issues that they take offense to.
Sure, Wisconsin was front page news because for years the idiots that live in Wisconsin have made a living by protesting.
If Californians were protesting outside the prisons, that would have been front page news too.
Just look at all the attention the idiots in New York are getting for protesting at Wall Street . . .
And why marikod is such a an apologist for Iran.
Care to comment on that ?
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Despite your arrogance, he still does not have to succomb to all your demands.
because it doesn't deal with domestic politics, which seems to be the only topic on this board which you seem able to discuss.
Btw, it's spelled "succumb".
There is a big fucking difference.
I'm not wasting my time talking about life in a country on the other side of the world that A) I will never live in and B) I know nothing about since I have never experienced it.
If I was interested in your fucking OP, I would have fucking responded to it . . . . . . .
And being a fucking spelling cop, I now understand why you have so much time to stop in a buffet and eat. After all, donuts are only good in the morning . . . .
I can tell you why : because you're a priggish ,"busybody old maid" who likes to stick her finger into other people's business Btw, Iran
related news stories are quite important, but, being a "narrow minded old maid", you wouldn't know that.
Lastly, get a life--------
-- Modified on 10/11/2011 11:46:55 AM
I'm interested enough to read some of those posts. But, unlike others, I don't post about shit that I know little about. And living in Iran's culture is something I know nothing about nor do I wish to learn.
You are so fucking easy to manipulate!!!!! LOL
Sorry, but given the back-and-forth between you guys I just couldn't help it.
First, the violence of the 90 lashes is horrific. Back ripped open and muscle shredded. Scarred for life.
THEN she gets tossed into an Iranian prison.
It may be true that CA prisons are very bad, but the "very bad" in CA is heaven on earth compared to Islamic prisons.
California had a patient die of testicular cancer. NO EXCUSE. But how many oncologists do you think are on staff at the Teheran prison?
And what do yo think happens when a person gets cancer in an Iranian prison. OF COURSE, he is flown to Switzerland.
50 inmates in a 12 by 20 foot cage for five hours waiting treatment. NO EXCUSE. But in Teheran, that is called "Housing."
And you comment on the lack of appeal in a CA prison. GET REAL. It may be bad, but I assure you that as slow as the appeal is in CA prisons, at least it exists in its flawed way. Do your research on Habeas in Iran.
And you don't know what is worse.
-- Modified on 10/12/2011 2:52:15 PM
Really, Phil, you been watching Mutiny on the Bounty too many times. Assuming that the 90 lashes gets upheld on appeal, the only evidence of lashing I've seen in Iran is not too far removed from a good S & M session. Take a look at the video and tell me if this guy "had his back ripped open and muscles shredded." I imagine women are not lashed nearly as hard.
Public flogging is common in Islamic countries. I've never heard of anyone dying or being severely injured from lashing in Iran. Do you have any evidence of that? I didn't think so.
In the California prison system, a preventable death occurs every 5 to 6 days. As the Supreme Court explained:
"In 2007, the last year for which the three-judge court had available statistics, an analysis of deaths in California's prisons found 68 preventable or possibly preventable deaths. California Prison Health Care Receivership Corp., K. Imai, Analysis of Year 2007 Death Reviews 18 (Nov. 2008). This was essentially unchanged from 2006, when an analysis found 66 preventable or possibly preventable deaths. Ibid. These statistics mean that, during 2006 and 2007, a preventable or possibly preventable death occurred once every five to six days."
So while you are certainly entitled to your opinion, I think it is pretty silly to compare the mild pain from the type of lashing in the video to actual death. And I don't see any evidence of lashing occuring in Iran every 5 to 6 days.
Care to re-evaluate? Obviously I would not have posed the question to the clueless Pripaus if I did not already have hard facts that give the answer.
But I do agree with you that the lashing they gave Richard Harris in Mutiny on the Bounty was pretty horrific.
There is no evidence they do that in Iran.
and I am not conceeding as there is evidence of sever lashings in some countries, that still leave you comparing prisons.
That said, after you scathing indictment of CA which I didn't disagree with, so repeating it adds nothing, you avoid the question I raise.
How many oncologists are serving as working doctors in the Iranian prison system? What do you think happens to someone in an Iranian prison when they are sick?
If you aren't sure which is worse, ask those questions and then decide