Last month I saw a provider who was an excellent performer, but I didn't think she warranted a 10 for looks. I gave her an 8. She had pressured me to give her a 10/10, so she was a little upset.

I'm going to assume that I should not use her as a referral. I know it sounds stupid to even bring this up, but it's always possible the rules are not what I would think. Am I correct in my assumption that I should just write her off for any referrals?

As you say, then you've answered your own question.

They might boot her off if they found out you were being harassed.     She would probably give you a reference.     If she didn't she will only hurt herself in the long run.   People will find out and avoid her.   Just be fair that's all you can do.   Beauty is in the eye of the beholder anyway.

That way, when other ladies contact her, she can tell them you're a stingy-scorer.  They can then make an informed decision as to whether or not they want to risk having their own numbers similarly dinged.

Ok, that was sarcastic, but seriously..... what do you THINK she's gonna say when other providers inquire about you?  
Hell, you'll be lucky if that's all she does.  If she was "upset" enough, she might thoroughly trash your reputation with flat-out lies.

Now, this personally is not my style.  Even when I've gotten scores that have lowered my average & ranking, I've still given them Okays or Whitelists when asked.  
BUT when another provider sends a reference request, I'll advise her to check his reviews.  

I'm not a low-scorer. I've given out plenty of 10/10's. She's not a 10, though. The guys who give her 10's are being pressured. She only has 10/10's, so the guys who wouldn't give her a 10 either had reviews pulled or never wrote them.

I hate the scoring system

you should not ask her for a referal.  
This means she now knows your TER handle.  I presume you didn't expect her to be upset...  if you expected it, you should have written a draft of your review & hidden it in a safe place (like a draft in your hobby email account).  You get up to 90 days to submit a review...  the risk is her (TER required) ad disappears so you can not submit it or it gets rejected.  Sometimes new ads can be found, however.  
So why wait? Because if you are careful not to out yourself to her, after a bit of time, she'll not be sure who you are & can't retaliate.  
Yes, beauty is in the eye of the beholder...

This is your opinion.  Others might honestly feel she IS a 10. Is this conjecture on your part, or have other reviewers actually told you this? Then opt out of it.  It's really that simple.  

 
I don't pretend to be objective on this topic, as people have really hurt not only my business but my feelings too with some of their comments and scores.  So I"m just gonna leave it at that.  

I did expect her to be upset. She said she would like a 10/10 review and, if I couldn't give her that score, then don't write a review at all. That's why she has almost all 10/10's. She had three quick 10/10 reviews three days after mine posted, and one of those reviewers posting a Friday shill in a regional forum.

I knew it was a long shot posting this question, but I'm often surprised at answers given.

He already stated he was "pressured" for a ten/ten review, why is it the least bit unbelievable that she didn't pressure other guys? Since the advent of the "top lists" review manipulation has become quite common and there are some VERY credible reports of guys actually being blackmailed and even having their personal info "outed" in retaliation for an 8/8 review.

and please remember, this is the Newbie board, where even I am nice. Your response was anything but "nice" Truth be told, I am a bit disappointed in your response to him.

I don't know how far this discussion should go, but let me address that point. She has no waist or hips. From the sides of her rib cage to the tops of her thighs is a straight line. I've looked at hundreds or even thousands of 10's, and have never seen that. Have you?  

I think that's enough.

and I would like to be the first, and apparent ONLY person here to give you kudos for sticking to your guns.

Yes, review manipulation is becoming more and more common as of late. and yes, being honest does come with a price, but without guys like you standing up for yourselves, we might as well just shut the site down as all there will be here are 10/10 reviews because the guys are too chickenshit to tell the truth. Kudos to you

All good points.  

For the record here, my review was over the top in discussing her performance, which was excellent. I did not discuss her appearance at all. Not a single word. I figured the 8 was enough; any more would be piling on.

I'm noticing something similar in some reviews of providers with nothing but 10/10's. Some reviews don't mention appearance at all. I think that's unusual, especially for a 10/10.

First of all, 8 is NOT a bad score.  

I wouldn't bother asking her. If she's manipulating her reviews, and she got mad at you for not giving her the score she asked for - I doubt she has your best interests in mind.  

Over the years, I've met some providers who use manipulative tactics like this to get 10/10s. They seem wonderful at first but can turn nasty when they don't get the score they want. I wouldn't take the chance of using her as a reference.

Kudos to you for not allowing her to manipulate the rating. More men should be like you. You should make TER aware of the manipulation and her harassment afterward about the score. This kind of thing will keep happening unless men tell other clients and TER which ladies are doing it.

-- Modified on 7/17/2016 2:41:17 PM

There seems to be two categories of scores -- either they are inflated or extremely low.  I do take note of a series of extremely low scores, as that is usually indicative of some underlying issue with the provider.  

I recently had a provider who wouldn't kiss (could have been my breath, who knows?) or allow me to touch her boobs (maybe sore from a hard day at work.)  Otherwise she was energetic and did everything else with skill and spirit.

My usual practice up to this point has been to write a review.  However I could not honestly write a review without mentioning those two issues.  But because they might have been one-off things, I decided not to write a review at all.  It would otherwise have been a glowing review.  But it might have given an impression that wouldn't be correct for future customers.

She also worked through an agency in which I prefer to stay in good terms with.  So no review.

Now if she tried to rip me off or otherwise fell into the extremely low category, I would probably feel an obligation to my bros to flag her somehow, either in a review or on the local board

Giving someone an 8 for looks is very dam good, an 8 means she very sexy, how can anyone think that's a bad thing.

think she deserves. Without honest reviews, guys who are looking for new talent will likely be disappointed.

FWIW, I judge a provider's appearance on what I SEE when I look at her website. Yes, there is a risk of the photos being old or heavily photoshoped, but I will read several reviews to see if there are any comments about appearance. I may also contact a reviewer to two through PM's to get their opinion.

Deputy Fife is here to nip your comment, nip it in the bud.

It's a bad thing when the provider is trying to make the top 20 list nationally.

The body type you mention sounds athletic/androgynous. A lot of models and athletes have very narrow hips. Some people find that look extremely attractive.  

I mean, can you also 'disqualify' someone based some completely arbitrary factor (maybe her feet are too big/small/wide/narrow)? Maybe her armpits are too pink (just trying to think of something really random). LOL.  

If you'd said that she just wasn't attractive to you... I'd understand that more than the comment you made that no '10' has narrow hips (based upon whose definition of a 10???), so therefore she can't rate that high.

Looks go in and out of style. I mean, back in the 50's the conventional idea of a 10 was WAY different than it is now..

I know there are guys here who would still give such a woman a ten/ten if she told them to, but there really should be at least some minimum standards. I think we all have our own ideas about what constitutes beauty, but UGLY should not be so difficult to define. lol

And couldn't we at least agree that no matter what the height weight ratio is, rolls of FLAB should also be a disqualifier for those coveted 10's?

Never mind, it was obviously a rhetorical question.

That's the type of body I assumed he was describing.

Some athletes look like that.  

Also a lot of models... the ones who have extremely slender, small-boned, willowy frames. Like flowerstalks.

-- Modified on 7/18/2016 2:24:04 PM

As for a 26-26-26, it's not my type, but I could see a LOT more objective graders giving a woman with that type of frame giving high marks than a woman who was a 36-36-36.

It's like the term "athletic" some people think ballet dancer, others think Bulgarian shot putter, both might not have discernable hips or bust, but which deserves high marks in femininity?

It is the year 2016, and society has certain criteria for what constitutes beauty. It's not the same as the criteria in the 1950's (I was there), and not every guy subscribes to it. But enough guys do subscribe to it that, if a woman is far from meeting those criteria--a 36-36-36, for example--should would probably not receive legitimate scores of 10/10. I also think that the criteria for providers is different than for actresses.  

As for narrow hips, I think guys like narrow waists and curvy hips, not the other way around.

As I said before, I went through photos of most of the top ten, and nearly all had curves at the waist and hips to varying degrees. Not a scientific study, but not worthless.

On the subject of score manipulation again, this provider gets 4 to 6 reviews per month and has been for several years. The day after my review was published, there was a 10/10 review. Then another the next day, and another the day after that. She's never had that before. Makes me wonder.

-- Modified on 7/18/2016 6:22:41 PM

is EXACTLY what each of us use to come up with the score we give. That's where the whole beauty in the eye of phrase comes from.

It's wrong for a provide to ask to any score, but we know it happens. It's wrong for any client to offer a score for some additional service -- or threaten low scores for them -- but we know it happens.

The main point is the review and scores given are part of the overall relationship and should be part of the equation when deciding who to use as a reference -- just like you'd use a lot of factors when choosing references for a job.

As the OP pointed out, he's new and not sure about all the rules so asking in this forum was exactly what he should do. Now he knows his initial intuition was correct. Hopefully he'll figure out that much of what takes place here runs according to the same social rules as everywhere else in his life. Some doesn't but almost all of the is covered under the context of "This is really not legal for most posting here so be very discreet with anything that can identify you or another person."

If her appearance is different in person than any of the pictures show, then she should be able to understand that type of deduction.

I think what Debbie actually MEANS to say is that if she looks like you'd expect her to look based on her pictures then she can earn a 10. But yes it is true that she should not be pressuring men into it. The only way we truly can gauge the actual perception others have on us is to allow them the best their own judge.

I do kinda disagree with Debbie though. The scoring system can encourage the provider to have more profitable business than she might not otherwise have had. It's kind of a duty to score the ladies appropriately based on the realistic expectation. Until there are specific standards in place, it's never gonna be truly an accurate system and that's a shame.

Then that would be a fake review in my book... Seriously you are the reviewer so whatever or however you felt your experience was should be satisfactory.    

Just put her down as a reference! What it gonna hurt..

I'm glad you brought up the integrity behind not reviewing. If I have a better than expected time, I'd like to brag on her a little. If it was underwhelming then I try not to hurt her business with negative comments.  

A challenge I always have is my endowment. Which you'd thinknow is a plus because many of men would like to get bigger, but it can scare the ladies away. Several times I feel I'm with a premium provider or that full service is a definite thing, I end up offering a donation for a very expensive BBBJ. When she gets the sense that she won't be able to perform with me or her performance will be limited with me, then she slacks also in the things that she CAN do like kissing, touching, and being flirty for fear that she's gonna come off as fake. And to some degree she's right. I don't leave a bad review for her saying "she refused to give FS", kinda have to pick the right providers because of this.

But if you didn't have a good experience, and you don't leave a review, her score gets skewed. Someone who might have looked at your other reviews and found you have similar tastes might have passed on the provider based upon your review (it's happened with me). Without you review, he would have probably booked with her.

I don't know if I mentioned it before, but this encounter cost me 36 hours of time and about $1800. If I'd had an idea from reviews, or from the PM's I exchanged with a couple of reviewers, that she wasn't a 10 in looks, I would have saved myself the time and money, and would have booked with someone else.  

If you're not satisfied, write the review. The worst you can get is blacklisted (haven't seen that yet for htis one). Second worst is not having a reference.

She doesn't have to say good things.

I mean, a woman could have "perfect" proportions... but might not 'look' beautiful.

If a woman is beautiful to you, why does it matter if her hips are narrow or full? Does her look 'work'? Is she 'hot'? Would you stop in your tracks to stare? Would you want to look at her, over and over again?  

Those questions have nothing to do with numerical proportions. They DO have a lot to do with intangibles, though...

Like art. For example, there are rules and conventions to making a great picture (rule of thirds, color theory, etc.). Yet some of the best works of art are great precisely because they break all the rules. They flout every convention, but yet, they still 'work.' That's exactly what makes them masterpieces.
 Their creators pushed the limits of their craft, and challenged what is/was conventionally considered beauty.

When I was new, I worked for a boutique NYC agency (now closed) that hired a lot of real fashion models with very slender proportions (along the lines of 26-26-26). Their prices were WAY higher even than most 10-10's on TER. So what do you make of that?

-- Modified on 7/23/2016 1:03:30 PM