many of the providers reviewed herein require verification of identity and often much additional info. Not one of them is ever required to disclose their true identity, but rather allowed to get by with obviously fictitious names. As a result, providers can readily conceal their criminal history, which could otherwise be revealed by searching them  
The rap sheets in some cases extend from prostitution to assault to drug convictions and anything else you care to name. When are we going to demand equal honesty form the providers for the safety of TER users?

...so am I. I give my first name, my references, and my TER handle. (Some guys don't give their handle.) Haven't been turned down yet. If the lady insists on full name and personal info I say no thank you. No hurt feelings, no big deal she won't miss me and I'll see someone else.

She has the right to do it her way. I have the right to do it mine.  

If you don't want to give that info then don't.

I'll leave it to a provider that requires that info to make the case for her point of view.

If you're a newbie do some reading here to see how to avoid this situation. If you're not a newbie then this Really belongs on your regional board or the General Discussion Board.

... about the worst thing that can happen when a hobbyist is in a room with a provider.  At worst, a hobbyist is also concerned with death.  It's happened.  Then, the 2nd worst thing hobbyists are concerned about is not robbery, but being caught in a sting.  The 3rd thing most hobbyists are concerned about is, IMO, being blackmailed/outed by the provider.  Then it's a tossup about what's next in line, but I'd put catching a serious STD ahead of robbery.  

I agree with you on your first point on supply and demand dictating who gets to define the screening requirements.  Of course, hobbyists have screening requirements too.  But they don't include demanding a provider's real identity.  Although a provider's screening requirements are different from a hobbyist's, neither one "wins" over the other.  Instead, both parties "win" when both the provider's and hobbyist's requirements are met, and each party is comfortable meeting the other's requirements.  And if that cannot happen, they should move on

We can walk away at any time but this is how providers eat and pay rent. Your points are valid but as it happens irrelevant, any girl that gets into this knows it can't be forever and the exit strategy will generally not contemplate thousands of guys knowing her real name. Easy enough to avoid the double standard, just don't hobby

a professionally maintained website, nude photos (all able to be viewed by the general public), then we can talk about equal disclosure.

-- Modified on 2/2/2015 2:51:37 AM

Especially with your point about "winning."  Indeed, both only "win" when they are both comfortable enough with the arrangements to proceed with a date.

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...whereas I'd surmise that they are the rare/exceptional occurrence for clients. In the internet age, if a stalker knows her real identity then he'll basically always be able to find and harass her.  

Just see providers who don't require real info in the meantime. After a while, you'll come to learn how to screen out any potential crazies from the ladies who are trustworthy. If outed, a client generally has way more plausible deniability than the provider.

And I said nothing about what most concerns you, or other providers.  Only you can decide that.  My disagreement with your post was in that you didn't recognize the many dangers that hobbyists face.  Odds-wise, I agree the risk of death is less for a hobbyist than for a provider.  But it's not zero, as you implied by your OP.  And we face greater risks for stings and blackmail/outing than do providers, mainly because many providers require personal information before seeing a new client.

I think we do agree that both providers and hobbyists have the right to establish their own screening rules, and if there's no "meeting of the minds" on those, then that's a session that just shouldn't happen.

This is a great thread and both sides of the argument make valid points.  

However, the provider's physical safety is a greater concern than her client's identity. Sure, a guy's life and career can be wrecked by hobbing, but TER is set up to allow the guys to fully screen an unknown lady through her reviews.  

Guys, the risk of an established, well-reviewed provider kicking your ass, blackmailing you, drugging you and stealing your wallet, or willfully participating in an LE sting is effectively zero.  If that shit happens, it means you're not taking advantage of what TER has to offer.  Do your homework on a gal before you meet her, then relax and enjoy the fun.  

If you're so worried about falling victim to the worst-case scenario, you probably shouldn't even get out of your bed today.  You might have a car wreck or choke on a chicken bone at lunch.

...you can choose to abstain from this illegal activity if you feel the risk is too great. I don't like to demand anything from anyone and I sure as hell don't put up with anyone demanding that I do something. I take the steps I feel necessary to minimize my risk and the ladies do the same. Neither of us is compelled to comply. We choose to.  

When both sides are comfortable, it's a beautiful thing. When they're not, just move on. It's that simple. As xyz123 stated, there are plenty of ladies with whom you also can remain anonymous. It's not like there are a limited number of ladies either. There are more than I could ever see in my remaining years.

the lady doth protest too much, methinks

Weeeellllll...

While I do agree that only any individual can determine their comfort level, and that it's not about "winning", I would say that the the point was more likely that screening for ones life "trumps" the concerns of an outting.  As you acknowledge, the risk of serious bodily injury and death is heavily on the lady.  

And outside of death?  I've yet to hear of a client raped and sodomized in the course of a session, prior to being robbed.  So how about simply doing enough homework to avoid sketchy situations and drugged out pimps?  You do have many tools at your disposal for that.

Ladies have the same risk of stings than clients, more so! Check the arrest rates, they are public data.  It's amazingly disproportionate!  So much for the idea that stepped up stings done in the name of the anti-trafficking effort have been to "save the women and children."  

Giving personal information to screen in no way increases your risk for arrest - if you show up to a sting, you risk arrest, screened or not.  LE will get your ID just fine in person.  Most stings will not bother with screening - they **want** you to show up!

You face greater risks for outting?!  Many ladies work from their homes, or apartments they rent.  Many ladies have had at least one experience with a stalker that required them to change their contact info, their incall location, even their entire persona.  I had my own issues with a PI who didn't like the fact I supported his submission to a bad client list.  There are many ladies have accidentally been outted via social media and cyber stalked as well.  It's not near as likely that a lady is going to jump all over your FaceBook page and tell YOUR mom and child that you are a monger.  Ladies have been secretly recorded and posted on-line on porn sites.  Shall I go on?  There are innumerable ways ladies have been outted!  

For some reason, there's this wide assumption that ladies are also not concerned about privacy - that they don't share the same risks of losing their family, another career, etc.  Sure, not everyone faces those risks - lady or gent - but please check the assumption that paints with a wide brush.

And blackmail?!  The rarest of concerns, indeed.  Are you Bill Gates?  Most guys simply don't have enough to bother with even the idea of a federal felony charge.  Robbery, I hear, is much simpler.  Again, do your homework to avoid sketchy dangerous incall locations and erratic providers, and leave excess valuables at home.

Actually, I suppose the silliest and rarest of concerns is the "provider might use me to get pregnant" concern.  If anyone is that paranoid, I think they just need to reconsider playing in this game entirely.
; )

 
" I think we do agree that both providers and hobbyists have the right to establish their own screening rules, and if there's no "meeting of the minds" on those, then that's a session that just shouldn't happen."

That I can completely agree with.

I've always accepted a first name and references in lieu of a traditional screening.  I'm not so sure I'll be doing that again.

There are many ladies who have had issues with clients who have had references, which is one of the reasons I don't take just any references.  Clients spoofed other clients, shared their verification service accounts, and simply just turned bad over time.  Too many predators have managed to be on their best behavior for a couple hours to get those references, before causing problems.  References usually have to be from ladies that I trust, from a lady who does do a full screen, or in such a number that I can put aside any doubts.  BUT, in the interest of being "reasonable and fair", I always offered the either/or with screening and references.

However, just last week I think I almost had a date with my neighbor.  Fortunately due to the unusual name and his age range, a few simple questions clued me in... however, if his name had been Mike?  it would have been extremely uncomfortable for all concerned, and I would have felt compelled to move my incall location.

It left me wondering...

For example, I have loads of criteria which must line up:  a comfort level in terms of info I will provide, physical features preferences, cost, fit based on reviews, etc.  Based on all this, only perhaps one in 20 ladies is a potential fit for me.  So 19 of 20 ladies don't get the chance to screen me, because I've already walked away!  And I don't mean that as an insult to ladies, but there really are just a lot of things which must line up right.  I think this is the basic logic of the other poster too.  I get that you can screen to your level of comfort, as well you should of course, but a date only actually happens when both the lady's and guy's "screening" (to use the term somewhat loosely) both turns out "thumbs up." You are only focusing on the guys who contact you and express interest.  It's kind of like patronizing a restaurant, certainly they can reject customers because they are not dressed appropriately, but they only get to do this from customers that show up at their door - and people have lots and lots of different options in terms of where they eat!

And yeh, in some ways this is just a semantics game - but I think the best application of the word "win" is when you have two folks smiling contentedly after a nice little rendezvous that satisfied both their needs!  

Pictures are being matched with experiences, so it is the same person.  

Not sure what you would be protecting against by knowing a provider has been a prostitute (Seriously?).  A drug user would probably be apparent in the first review or two, plus she would at least need to be functional to maintain a website, etc.  If she's literally a fugitive for a real crime, she'd probably be pretty good at faking the ID check...

As for the site you mentioned, it looks totally useless.  It would appear that arrests.org would only be remotely useful in one of the major markets anyway (in CA), and then not if she was running away from her past in any New England state, New York (is that New England?), Illinois, Nevada, DC.  Good thing not many escorts have ever lived in those places... *head scratch*

It is simple supply and demand, like she said.  The rest is just detail.

If ladies can still get enough demand while having very strict screening, then many will.
And if guys can partake in this hobby without the need to give over info to individual ladies, then many will opt for this route, like me (wouldn't be here otherwise actually).

Somehow I don't forsee this hobby changing to one in which ladies give out their real name to each guy.  You can talk about theroreticals all you want ("they should have to give their name if they wan't it from me"), but it just doesn't mean anything, nor does the merit of the justifications about WHY ladies ask for info really matter, to be honest.

Supply and demand is king.  And for better or worse, the market has set the prices, AND the policies that can thrive at the various price points.

Now if you want to change things.  Start a new service.  Something like P411 on steroids.  You can require a hefty entry fee for ladies and gents - and make them ALL go through a thorough professional background check.  But here is the thing, it will only survive if it's what the market truly demands.  Perhaps you'll be a big success and get rich, who knows.  Or, you might be a complete flop

I know this is a subject that stirs emotional reactions, but at least try not to misstate what others are saying here.  

For example, I never said that hobbyists face greater risks for outing than providers.  I did say that is a risk that hobbyists face.  Also I never said that providers aren't concerned about their privacy--don't know where you came up with that one.  Of course they are--which is why they don't give their personal info such as their real name to a prospective client as part of his screening process.  I think a provider would have to be crazy to do that.

As for blackmail... I personally know of cases where hobbyists have been blackmailed for a few thousand dollars, into the tens of thousands.  Not Bill Gates territory, but blackmail nonetheless.  And this blackmail was done by very well reviewed providers.  It went on for a long time.  Still goes on today, because despite warnings from a few, the majority of their clients keep thinking with their little heads:  "She's so awesome when I'm with her, she'd never do something like that!"  Right...

And yes, hobbyists ARE responsible for doing their homework to try to avoid being beaten up by a thug (before being robbed) or suffering other consequences of not screening thoroughly.  Although our resources are limited when seeing a provider with no reviews.  And we don't get to ask for the new provider's personal information before that initial meeting.  Talk about risk.  Which is why I never TOFTT.  But someone's got to be the first client for a new provider.

Can we just agree that both providers and hobbyists face serious risks, and all of us must take measures to minimize those risks?  Why does it have to become a pissing contest about who has the most and biggest risks?  We're all in this together, vs. a world in which many people think of us as criminals at best

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Well, using that reasoning, if he's literally a fugitive for a real crime, he'd probably be pretty good at faking the ID check, right?    

FWIW, discussing this issue is pointless, it is a lady's body, her safety and her prerogative to screen in the manner she sees fit.    This is an issue on which I have changed my mind, if there is a lady I want to see and she requires ID, I will do it if she is reputable and has a long track record.

I think if a hobbyists is required to provide personal information,  the same should be expected of the provider.   We all know that providers don't give their real name.

...If she insists say no thank you and see someone else. Don't give her grief about it just move on. It's really very simple. It isn't worth spending time pondering or arguing. Just don't give it and see one of the hundreds, thousands, etc that don't require it.

The only issue I have is that you seemingly discount every other woman in the business. If a guy offers his references, p411 and TER to you. He has dozens of reviews, multiple white list references, double digit okays on p411, has written a bunch of reviews you can read, you still don't think he's safe? You are basically saying all those other woman are idiots and don't care about their own safety.  

Do what you want, its your business but fuck, if all those references aren't good enough, there is something wrong with you.  
 

You are looking for a woman to deliver an illegal service, that's right illegal, and you want to be able to search her rap sheet to see if she has broken any laws?

Yup, she has, and if you see her, she will do it again, as will you. Ooh, and she might have broken other laws, too, scary!!!!

Once you find the provider who never breaks a law, then start looking for the Tooth Fairy and Santa Claus, because you can find them, too.  

Vito, baby, get a clue - you ain't dealing with innocent virgins here. As for you being screened, if you look at how it works around the world, there are two business models - in one, the lady screens you to make sure you are safe to meet and play with; in the other, the lady does not screen you, but she has muscle nearby to assure that if you turn out to be an asshole she will be okay, and you will not. You tell me which model works best for you, because those are the only choices you get.

OTOH, you may feel free to ask any lady to disclose as much of her personal information as you think you require. The response, and this is what it should be, too, will either be a bunch of lies (because really you neither need or want an honest response) or a simple fuck you, unless you live in some parallel reality.

But tell me - how do you feel about that damned sun coming up in the east? Why always the east? Doesn't that suck, too?

zig

"providers and hobbyists face serious risks, and all of us must take measures to minimize those risks?  Why does it have to become a pissing contest about who has the most and biggest risks?"

I already agreed with that statement.  This was my first post on this thread, and yet you think it's a pissing contest?  If you wanna', go ahead.  I can play.

***Women are BY FAR more often and much worse victimized than the men in this game.***
Yes, if you are robbed and killed, the statistics won't matter to you.  However, providers do have exponential numbers of violations over the men - even though there are more of you than there are of us.  More arrests, more assaults, more outtings, more robberies, more rapes, more murders.  Exponential.  Period.  Did I say exponential?

It's hard to hold a newbies hand when worry that Suzie Provider is going to call the office and say, "Hi!  Joe Blow wants to see a whore, can you verify him?"  And the recurring, "I don't want to give my personal information, it's not fair!  Us guys have so much at risk!"

****You don't understand it?  You don't thinks it's fair?  Simple solution?  Don't see anyone who asks for personal information.****

You found a great way to help avoid unknown and potentially sketchy situations!  Don't TOFTT.  You often see the recommendation that newbies not TOFTT.  Don't let the little head make your decisions when if hear that a lady is unethical just because she's hot.   There ARE fellows who get off on the thrill and risk of seeing someone new or dangerous.  Let them do what they like to do, they know what their risks are.

Established ladies have put a lot of time and effort into their presence and reputation - a registered website, reviews and vouches over time, you can use that history to make decisions that will help you stay safe.  Joe Blow's fake name and a burner phone just doesn't compare.Screening of some kind is the *only* means a lady has to try to ensure her safety.  (Well, short of having a handgun in her purse or hiring a thug or a pimp to watch her back.  Would you feel more comfortable then?)

Piss all you like, if you like.

Bottom line - we agree.  Everyone has the right, (the responsibility even), to assess their risk, do their homework, and take care of their safety and security - first and foremost.

a few parting thoughts on this subject - the activity is illegal and thus both parties are committing a crime (notwithstanding any bullsh**t disclaimers such as "all monies exchanged are for companionship only etc etc"") and everyone knows it including the authorities. Virtually ANYWHERE you drive your car will be recorded on surveillance cameras forever and can and will come back to haunt you if EVER there is any trouble surrounding that provider or that locale. If anything happens to you at that locale you will never report it to the police because it of course compromises you as well and you will not want the publicity. There are literally tens of thousands of providers advertising their services throughout this country and you can bet that the stories that you would hear if the truth were told would be give you serious pause before engaging.
Enjoy the hobby and take pains to not become one of those stories