Newbie - FAQ

is it legalconfused_smile
badcar1314 2404 reads
posted

ok! I am new at this hobby, did a lot of research, also heard a lot of stories too. one of the story is about a guy went to a date with well reviewed provider. not knowing the place is been watched by LE already. few hours pass as the guy exit the front door, he was apporch by LE asking what he doing here and ask to see guy's ID. guy reply by saying "visting a friend.""who? what Number"asked the LE, guy think best not to laie to LE so he tell the room number. then this guy was arrested for solication. Without even seen the actual transfer of money is that legel?

... but the question is what did he really say to LE?  I'm betting he talked his way into jail - thats the most common way of getting there.  

Per you description, LE had seen no offense and had no grounds for an arrest.  Had your friend simply given LE his ID and refused to answer any questions, I'm doubting he would have been arrested/cited.  There is always the chance that you will run into vice officers willing to make arrests that are unfounded based on the fact that they know 99% of the people they pop will be willing to plead to something to make it all go away and cannot afford the expense or embarrassment of fighting it in court.  There is nothing you can do about that if you do encounter it.  

Never forget that you do not have to explain to LE why you are in any public place or tell them who you had been visiting etc.  Its none of their business.  You are generally obliged to identify yourself and LE may be able to hold you if you refuse to do so, but thats about it.  Say nothing.  You are not going to talk your way out of much of anything but you certainly can talk your way IN to a bust.  

MVR

"Don't Talk to the Police" by Professor James Duane - 27 min - May 21, 2008

James Duane explains why innocent people should never talk to the police.

-- this is long, but the point is made within the first 6 minutes with a good example

-- at 8 min, top 10 reasons not to talk to police

Please take the time to listen to the link below.


Happy and Safe Hobbying,
Sarah Nicole of Seattle

Don't lie to LE!  (An innocent statement like "visiting a friend" could be construed as a misrepresentation.)  That is a serious felony.  (It's what landed Martha Stewart in the clink, not the stock selling!)

If you say nothing beyond name, rank and serial number, you can't be charged with that!

LE might holler and bellow and make faces but just politely respond that you choose not to say anything.

Most likely, they'll just like you walk away with a warning that they better not catch you around places like this again.

It's somewhat upsetting that a well reviewed provider would be attacting LE attention like this.  This is something that should be conveyed on the local board to warn others.

Despite the fact that this is the Newbie Board, I think I should still close:

(still not a lawyer)

Bad_Dog1135 reads

Lying to the police is NOT a felony under that scenario.
You are also NOT under oath, and CANNOT be charged with perjury.
The Martha Stewart analogy is way off base.

GaGambler1510 reads

under the aforementioned scenario. At the most a person could be charged with complicity or possibly "aiding and abetting", neither of which would ever see the inside of a courtroom.

We should agree however that lying to the police is not a good idea. Despite what the police say you are not under any legal obligation to explain your "law abiding private behavior"(my own words, not a quote".

Your response in that situation should be "May I ask why you are interested in my business?" If pressed further, you should respond with "Do you suspect me of comitting a crime? If the cop answers yes then ask for your attorney, if no then simply state it is none of his business, TYVM and have a good day.

I can see this happen to both well and not so well reviewed providers. Causing them to go below radar.

After having read many reviews of the ladies, some of those reviews have included addresses. (not cool) This has caused me concern and avoided seeing those. It's one thing to mention the city, and maybe the street if it is long and heavily populated. But, never ever ever put an address.

Say NOTHING that has basis in fact...  While lying to a cop on the street certainly is not a felony, there are MANY statutes that they can trot out to run you in on if you do; Obstruction of Justice, Hindrance of a Police Officer in the Line of Duty etc etc etc ad nausem.  
Saying nothing may piss them off, but either they are going to bust you are they are not.  
STFU
MVR

As the two previous poster wrote, this is what you do after you give LE your id. Like they say in the movies "name, rank, and serial #" only.
Never been to law school, however, I have relatives that are lawyers. Good luck

TallWVguy1032 reads

A cop would not let you get your rocks off & then arrest you.  There has to be some mention of money in exchange for some sexual act for them to legally arrest you but BEFORE anything sexual takes place.  It would be nice if they did let you cum & then take you to jail but keeping an erection knowing this might be difficult.  LOL

if i may be allowed to quote a fellow hobbyist, You may give the officer your id and after that use "your contitutional right to STFU."  That said im a 37 yo doctor and if you arrest for walking out of a hotel and start making accustions/false charges (AS FAR AS THEY KNOW) ill be nice right untill i shove a lawsuit down the city's throat.for slander.

Timbow1428 reads

I hope you did not mean  you would tell a cop you might sue :)

joseph5272126 reads

Encounters With Law Enforcement Agents 1/7/09

There are three levels of police-initiated encounters.  The second two—which are more serious—require a certain level of proof before the police can undertake them.

GENERAL CONVERSATION

When the police are conducting an investigation, but don’t have enough evidence to detain or arrest you, they’ll try to get you to chat with them.  They may call this a “casual encounter” or a “friendly conversation,” etc.  If you cooperate, you’re likely to give them the very facts they need to arrest you.  
If an officer tries to start a conversation with you, find out whether you’re free to go.  If you are, then you should leave immediately, without saying anything else.
Sometimes, an officer will ask you to come to the police station “to answer a few questions.” (1)  Don’t do it.  There’s a good chance you’ll leave the station in handcuffs.  Just tell the officer no.  If you’re outside, walk away; if you’re inside, close the door; if you’re on the phone, hang up.  Then contact a criminal defense lawyer right away.

DETENTION

Detention is a short period of custody, often occurring while the police are deciding whether or not to arrest you.  In order to detain you, the police are supposed to have a reasonable suspicion that you’re involved in a crime.  This suspicion must be more than a mere hunch, and the police must be able to put their reasonable suspicion into words.  That’s why it’s sometimes called an “articulable suspicion.” For example, if an officer stops an individual, it would not be enough for the officer to be thinking, “He looked like he was up to something.” The officer’s thoughts would have to be more specific, such as, “He kept looking in the window of the jewelry store, then walking away, then coming back and peering into the store again.  And he wasn’t from the neighborhood.  He seemed nervous and agitated, so I thought he might be planning a burglary.”
Usually, a reasonable suspicion is based on multiple factors, such as: the suspect matches the description of a wanted criminal; the suspect drops an object after seeing the police; the suspect runs away after seeing the police; etc.
Detention is supposed to last only a short time and should not involve changing location, such as going to the local police station.
It may be useful later on, when you’re fighting the case in court, to have asked the officer why you’re being held.  If the officer cannot articulate his suspicion, you may be able to show that your detention was unlawful.  Obviously, this tactic will work better if you have witnesses who will testify that the officer made an inadequate reply.  (Without witnesses, it’s just your word against the police officer’s, if the officer lies about what he said.)
If you do ask why you’re being held, memorize the officer’s response.  Never tell a cop that he doesn’t have reasonable suspicion.  It won’t make the officer let you go, it will only annoy him and remind him to think up a good reason for having detained you, before he writes his report.
During a detention, the police are entitled to pat the outer surface of your clothing, to check for guns, knives or other weapons.  If you’re detained while driving, the officers can look inside the car for weapons (but not in the trunk).  A detention search is conducted only to ensure that the detainee has no weapon.  While detaining you, once the police have patted you down and haven’t felt anything that could be a weapon, they cannot then examine the contents of your pockets.  However, they may try to trick you into “voluntarily” allowing them to search further than they’re entitled during a detention.  The officer will ask you to show him the contents of your pockets, bags, trunk, etc.  The request will usually sound like a casual order, especially when the officer uses a commanding tone of voice:
      •  Let’s see what’s in your bag.

      •  Want to pop open the trunk for me?

      •  How about showing me what you’ve got in your pockets?
Never give permission to law enforcement officers to search.  It’s important to state your refusal clearly (rather than just shaking your head), so that the police can’t misunderstand.
Arrest

You can be arrested by an officer or a citizen who sees you commit a crime.  And even if they didn’t see you, the police can arrest you if they have probable cause to believe that you’re involved in a felony (or sometimes a misdemeanor, depending on the type of crime and the jurisdiction).  The facts adding up to probable cause vary, according to the nature of the case.  Say, for example, the police received a call from a store owner that someone matching your description had just spray-painted lots of graffiti all over the front of his store.  The police drive to the area and notice you running down the street, about a block from the store, holding a can of spray paint in your hand.  Under these circumstances, the police would have probable cause to arrest you.  They don’t need an arrest warrant as long as they have enough facts for probable cause.  Probable cause is more than a reasonable suspicion, but less than the level of proof required to convict you at trial (proof beyond a reasonable doubt).
Once you’re under arrest, the police can search your clothes, your body, your bags, your car, etc.  In addition, after arresting you, the police can search your “wingspan,” the area within your immediate control.  Your wingspan could include a whole room, if the room is small enough that you could lunge to any part of it.
A detention frequently turns into an arrest, particularly if you answer the officer’s questions.  Physically resisting the police will almost always turn a detention into an arrest—even gently touching a police officer can result in charges of assault or battery on an officer.  If the police find a weapon or see drugs while detaining you, that’s likely to provide the probable cause necessary to arrest you.  For instance, the police might detain you to see whether you match the description of a particular crime suspect, and then discover an illegal knife while pat-searching you.  Or the police might pull you over when you’re driving and detain you to write a ticket, and then spot an open alcoholic beverage container in your car.  Once you’re under arrest, the police are allowed to search your clothes and body and to go through your bag and/or vehicle.1

SUMMARY TO LIVE BY ANY TIME YOU ENCOUNTER LE

REMEMBER THE LE DOES NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO SEARCH YOU, YOUR PERSONALS, CAR OR TRUNK UNTIL YOU ARE ARRESTED. THEY CAN PAT YOU DOWN EXTERNALLY FOR WEAPONS FOR THEIR SAFTEY OR SEARCH YOU CAR IF SOMETHINGS IS IN PLAN VIEW OR AN STRONG ORDER.  HOWEVER, AND ORDOR IS VERY DIFFICULT TO PROVE.  HOWEVER THIS DOES NOT GIVE THEM THE RIGHT TO SEARCH YOU, YOUR TRUNK, PURSE OR ANYTHING BUT THE CAR. IF THE FIND SOMETHING IN YOUR CAR THEN THEY HAVE THE RIGHT TO ARREST YOU AND CAN SEARCH ANYTHING INCLUDING AN AREA OF APPROX 30FEET FROM YOU OR THE PATH YOU TRAVELED.

*** THE BEST THING TO DO IS NEVER ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS BUT IDENTIFICATION OF YOURSELF, EVERY TIME AN LE ASKS YOU ANYTHING ELSE YOU SHOULD REQUEST IF YOU ARE UNDER ARREST>  iF NOT ASK THE LE IF YOU MAY LEAVE. IF THE LE SAYS NO AND ASKS YOU ANOTHER QUESTION. POLITLY STATE THAT YOU WISH TO REMAIN SILENT. AND WAIT LET THE LE MAKE THE NEXT MOVE! IF THE LE BEGAINS TO SEARCH YOU, ASK YOU TO EMPTY YOUR POCKETS, SEARCH YOUR TRUNK ETC VERY POLITLY " STATE YOU DO NOT CONSENT TO ANY SEARCH AN WISH TO REMAIN SILENT"  IF POSSABLE STATE LOUDLY AND IN FRONT OF THE LE CAR / DASH CAMERA.  YOU MUST STICK TO YOUR GUNS AND REMAIN SILENT.  **** REMEMBER IN MOST CASES THE LE HAS NO ABILITY TO REDUCE YOUR SENTENCE, LET YOU GO, MAKE A DEAL.  ALL LE ARE TRING TO DO IS Make A CASE AGAINST YOU THAT WILL STAND UP IN COURT!!

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