Very good point RPD , ultimately community consensus based on performance , consistency , longevity , reputation ,peer respect . In each field and arena you have your folk heroes, icons and legends including the small insignificant world of Angeleno k-dolls. Yes initially and individually it is subjective but ultimately it is collective recognition. Within the K-girl hobbiest community you others who stand the test of time will be considered legends within this era.
Given your knowledge and experience I would have hoped rather than focus of minnow you would have given us your learned opinion on the topic .
I have expressed my opinion of reviews more than I care to remember.You have some of the best reviews on TER , I wish you would resume writing reviews at least we will know that they are genuine and to the point.
I'm not a fan of the PR type reviews with many of the same tired lines - "hey guys, run don't walk to see this one," "better go now before she gets too busy" "I will see her again - over and over"
Mixed Fortunes
I am often fascinated by how artists of comparable talent end up mixed fortunes . Some become cultural icons while others never scratch the surface of success while other become working artist.
It seems to be the same with providers .New waves of K-dolls arrive every week , some take the city by storm some disappear before the their ad even appears online. In between there are a group that survive , they do enough business to remain but seem stuck below a glass ceiling , yet among these girls are under rated and under appreciated gems . Until last summer I would have included Kami among them. What has changed to propel her to the top.
What beside talent and a professional attitude enables one K - doll to rocket to the top while another dropped like a lead zeppelin.
It is attitude, image, blind ambition , style , aura or hype that determines whether we have a dud or a legend ?
What role does perception play in the making of a legend ?
Does hype and perception influence a client in giving inflated scores that help build a legend ? Do guys feel obliged to give inflated score irrespective of their quality out of fear of appearing inadequate ?
Does potential retribution from Booker/ provider for submitting fair scores pressure hobbyist into inflating his scores?
I guess the post got pulled and reposted? In anycase let me put up a few new points.
I think luck has a big factor in this. You have some girls who are beauties but can't seem to break the ceiling while others with sheer grit and tenacity are able to have a loyal customer base due to hard work.
Of course word of mouth will play a factor as well and hopefully a booker that will be proactive in pushing the girl to current or new clients.
TER I am sure plays a big factor in the first couple of reviews a girl will get so a booker will do her best to get those favorable reviews in as quick as possible.
But once again, luck will play a very big factor!
Beems take 2
Beem310 I apologize , I needed to edit and add a few points. Sorry for the inconvenience and thanks for indulging me by making your new point.
I guess the post got pulled and reposted? In anycase let me put up a few new points.
Beems take 2
I tend to think talent rises to the top. Not just the obvious ones like Kami, Lohan and Lita, but even among the 3-month wonders, we see it. I remember Miu Miu last summer. She generated great reviews right from the start. Then, pretty soon, it was tough to make an appointment with her. She was booking up every day by 9:15 am. You really had to be quick with a text to see her!
I think it takes a bit of everything but most of all the willingness on the girls part to perform at an incrediblely high level day in and day out for the level of service that alot of hobbiest demand, this is not easy. And I fully agree that there are and have been alot of gems that never get any of the attention they should. The ones that succeed do market themselves well, have a way of attracting repeat business and and have a way of making the customer feel like they special. Some also seem to burn out quickly and who can blame them.
My 2 cents.
Mixed Fortunes
I am often fascinated by how artists of comparable talent end up mixed fortunes . Some become cultural icons while others never scratch the surface of success while other become working artist.
It seems to be the same with providers .New waves of K-dolls arrive every week , some take the city by storm some disappear before the their ad even appears online. In between there are a group that survive , they do enough business to remain but seem stuck below a glass ceiling , yet among these girls are under rated and under appreciated gems . Until last summer I would have included Kami among them. What has changed to propel her to the top.
What beside talent and a professional attitude enables one K - doll to rocket to the top while another dropped like a lead zeppelin.
It is attitude, image, blind ambition , style , aura or hype that determines whether we have a dud or a legend ?
What role does perception play in the making of a legend ?
Does hype and perception influence a client in giving inflated scores that help build a legend ? Do guys feel obliged to give inflated score irrespective of their quality out of fear of appearing inadequate ?
Does potential retribution from Booker/ provider for submitting fair scores pressure hobbyist into inflating his scores?
Some may be legends in your mind, but it's subjective. Unless you got access to their bookings as a scorecard how do you decide who's at the top and how, for example, Kami wasn't and now she is? What makes a legend? For one - somebody hyping them and labeling them as such.
I'm not a fan of the PR type reviews with many of the same tired lines - "hey guys, run don't walk to see this one," "better go now before she gets too busy" "I will see her again - over and over"
Very good point RPD , ultimately community consensus based on performance , consistency , longevity , reputation ,peer respect . In each field and arena you have your folk heroes, icons and legends including the small insignificant world of Angeleno k-dolls. Yes initially and individually it is subjective but ultimately it is collective recognition. Within the K-girl hobbiest community you others who stand the test of time will be considered legends within this era.
Given your knowledge and experience I would have hoped rather than focus of minnow you would have given us your learned opinion on the topic .
I have expressed my opinion of reviews more than I care to remember.You have some of the best reviews on TER , I wish you would resume writing reviews at least we will know that they are genuine and to the point.
I'm not a fan of the PR type reviews with many of the same tired lines - "hey guys, run don't walk to see this one," "better go now before she gets too busy" "I will see her again - over and over"
I did give my learned opinion. You don't know when community consensus is reached. It's your own perception.
If Kami has become a legend in his mind, why does that bother you? You seem to have an opinion on the matter yet all you seem to do is complain and not add to the discussion..but that is what you do best.
It seems your status as a legend should be "ALL TIME COMPLAINER". Don't you have anything positive to contribute other than complain all the time? Really? I bet your boys will come to bat for you in a bit but maybe you can get someone else to call you unsolicited and get you to remove this post.
Maybe you should take Harpman's advice and go back to writing reviews, apparently yours seem to be the best..
Beemer
I'm not a fan of the PR type reviews with many of the same tired lines - "hey guys, run don't walk to see this one," "better go now before she gets too busy" "I will see her again - over and over"
because that is your title!
This is a valuable topic, and one which I think might ultimately improve not only our experiences with these providers, but also the reliability of our reviews.
The K-girls are vendors who provide services. The most successful among them meet consumer expectations across a relatively broad spectrum of interests. Primary among those interests, I suspect, is that the client insists on being treated as an individual, whose particular needs are understood by the vendor. This is no different than for any service provider (whether K-girl, dentist, or publicist).
I've seen Kami once, and have friends who've seen her often. What sets her apart is not, in my opinion, looks or performance in the abstract, but rather service in the sense that the clients feel that their needs are met, they are not treated in a "one size fits all" manner, and that they are listened to. Any provider can go through the expected menu or routine, but not all are exceptional. What makes Kami exceptional, I think, is her ability to consistently supply a great experience for each client in a tailor made way.
By way of comparison: Pepsi and Yoona/Anica have very strong reviews, but those reviews suggest a certain sameness to the experience. While the initial experiences are all very intense, are they able to sustain performance over time? I've only seen them once, but I suspect they may not be as strong over the long haul as Kami. I hope I'm wrong, because I definitely think the hobby would be improved if they started to define a different level of service.
I also think that Kami pays attention to the reviews and her rankings. That suggests that we all have to do better, particularly on the grand inflation front, with our reports and reviews, in hopes that we're giving the right signals to the provider community as to what works and what doesn't.
Thanks, Harps, for starting this conversation.
You can call this geezer many things but old . He seems younger than you and I would guess more than defend K-dolls he has two in his tank.
you are hilarious. your a grouchy old geezer but least you try to defend the kgirls. fighting!!
When you're closer to 60 than 55, which I am, you're old. I think he's just unhappy because I busted on him for starting a thread where he was complaining about a new girl's rate. Not very classy and if there's not an official rule against it, it's at least unwritten.
I agree ~ when I see a post that says "Hey guys, better go now to see this one..." I cringe. I just want a reviewer to tell me what he experienced. How did the girl treat him? What's her personality like? What is she like physically? Her skills? ... I don't want an advertisement and I'm suspicious of reviewers who sound like they're standing next to the girl's tent with a straw hat and a cane saying, "Step right up..."
I've thought about this too.
Looks, skills: Important, but not everything
Luck: is important, the first couple reviews can make a big difference. The luck is in getting early clients you click with that will write reviews. I think this is one reason why some K providers "reboot" their LA careers by changing their names and photos after a couple months
Attitude: Being able to put up with LA clients expectations, swallow everything thrown at them, "take a pounding", etc is key too. One provider was telling me how she came over with a good friend. But the friend couldn't take it and left after a couple months. This provider has stuck it out and seems very successful. I remember a different provider about 3 years ago asking me very sincerely near the end of a session: "why are you being so nice to me?" Wow, what can you say to that.
Photos: There are some providers with good reviews who i dont think i will ever see because of how they look in their photos. But one of my current ATFs had terrible photos initially, pictures that made her look like a 5 or a 6. In person she is a solid 9. I remember thinking I should tell her her pictures suck but I didn't want to insult her. Unfortunately for me she's got new photos up now that do her justice and it's harder to book.
Which gives me an idea. I've been amazed at some of the crappy photos providers post of themselves.
Maybe TER should offer a free service for providers where experienced VIP level clients would provide private feedback or ratings of provider's photos for them, kind of market research or focus group type evaluations. It'd have to be constructive, with nasty or mean spirited reviewers chucked out.
I'd sign up. Might be fun.
classic examples are hosi, silo,rani,lita,lohan,kami, amber etc...
all started out pretty medicore. didn't perform certain services such as rimming or cim or never fully accepted their lot in life so sex was always hesitant...weak DFK or clenching of the eyes. but then they start offering those services and occasionally that taboo service that has been in the forum threads recently and well rest is history.
but whatever the service, key is they finally accept what they are in life and just go with the flow and enjoy it for it is. some of the superstars would tell me they cried their first time providing but now look at them now.
while i guess its lucky for me a girl becomes a superstar so i can get off when i need it by seeing her, i also feel sorry for them. because once they commit and accept it then that will be their life. there is no going back. i have yet to meet any kgirl who does this over a year or more ever leave this business. if they don't provide they become owner. and all say they are ashamed of what they are doing but need the money. sigh. life is sure isn't easy.
My experience with the K-dolls mirrors your point of view.Many of the one who do not resign themselves to their fate in life succumb to the pressure and end up casualties of the profession.
all started out pretty medicore. didn't perform certain services such as rimming or cim or never fully accepted their lot in life so sex was always hesitant...weak DFK or clenching of the eyes. but then they start offering those services and occasionally that taboo service that has been in the forum threads recently and well rest is history.
but whatever the service, key is they finally accept what they are in life and just go with the flow and enjoy it for it is. some of the superstars would tell me they cried their first time providing but now look at them now.
while i guess its lucky for me a girl becomes a superstar so i can get off when i need it by seeing her, i also feel sorry for them. because once they commit and accept it then that will be their life. there is no going back. i have yet to meet any kgirl who does this over a year or more ever leave this business. if they don't provide they become owner. and all say they are ashamed of what they are doing but need the money. sigh. life is sure isn't easy.
Not agreeing with everything you said, but do agree on the basic theme that there's a sad aspect to the hobby. I'm sure most of the K-girls would rather be doing something else could they make the coin. That aspect is generally glossed over in most of these discussion board posts. I'm skeptical of a lot of the stuff I see discussed because a lot of it is guys posting their thoughts about what's in every girls head as if they know for fact what she's about. Certain sad aspect hobbyist side as well but I'd says many orders of magnitude less and varying by individual.
Always been a dilemma. You get into a relationship and you want them to quit but then marriage talk happens and then you realize your too chicken shit,ashamed, or suspicious of the girl to do it.
I'm a white guy married to a Korean, but at 50+ she's not exactly a k-girl. Bad husband who never learned to speak the language, would have been useful over the hobbying year - or got me into a lot of trouble.
Watch out rpd, before long you're goin be bromancing wit the best of em....ha!! That ^^ was a cool post, says a lot about ya.
Its a choice that these girls are making. They could also choose to work minimum wage or live with their parents. Providing is a high wage job that doesn't require formal education. Granted, high volume providing is a physically strenuous activity that is somewhere around that of a massage therapist, but the provider makes a lot more money even after paying her rent and answering service.
Feeling sorry for them is ridiculous. I feel sorry for the girls who aren't beautiful who can't get this type of work even if they wanted. Their options are more limitted.
At the same time I am by no means suggesting not to treat a provider with respect and kindness. I view my providers as a love and sex doctor, pay them a doctor's wage, show up well groomed, never cross their boundaries, and leave when my time is up. Its about respect and having fun. Its great to meet women who share that freedom of expression.
Why not feel sorry for the girls who weren't born beautiful enough to do this type of work? Their options in life are less.
I disagree because I have known some Asian providers who have left the business after 2yrs and longer. Some have gotten married, some have saved and opened beauty salons.
Many of these girls will have the opportunity to save and plan their lives for when they can't or don't want to work anymore. Many have problems and live beyond their means. Happens with entertainers and athletes too. At least all these people have a chance... some don't even get a chance and a relegated to low paying jobs and barely get by; and some of those people end up being happier than the more fortuanate people.
Save your pity bro' you are still paying a lot of money for something you don't really need to live. More importantly, the girls don't want anyone to feel sorry for them, just respect them and enjoy your time with them, and understand that there is a mutual benefit going on.
you mind telling me why these asian providers would let you meet their spouse and kids or visit their beauty salon to a former client who paid them to suck and f**k them? heck maybe your so hot these girls want to tell their husband and kids and people who work for them that they f**ked you for money. or did you just assume it because someone or they told you and you never actually seen their spouse or beauty salon?
why don't you respond to me after you actually had a relationship with a kgirl provider or lived in their world and hanged with other kgirl providers and the owners and bookers. instead of making assumptions and such of how they feel.
I've had relationships with the girls you reference. One is going on the 3rd year, and although not sexual at this time because she's getting married, I do have the experience from which to draw upon.
Your pity and self loathing of what you do, and what they do makes them ashamed. You may also be setting yourself up to be taken advantage of.... being the super nice and caring Guy that you are, but that's your business. If you want to be a white night and "save" someone, then go do it, but your prior admission of being a "chicken shit" is probably spot on.
I hope the other guys who read this get what I'm saying and are able to enhance their experience thru mutual respect and open acceptance. If monogamy worked for us we wouldn't be participating in this hobby.
You guys have discussed the beauty and talent enough, but I think location is pretty key in LA too. Is there enough parking? Is the location safe? If I fly in for a visit, I am not able to drive to Wilshire due to the traffic; I bet the biggest earners work on the west side.
So some poor sap drives 2 hours each way on the 405 so he can own a crap house in some far away valley, raise 4 kids, have a fat wife, and hate his job. Shitty boss, shitty pay, shitty commute, trapped in a financial hole blah blah blah. But when it's a Kgirl who hates her job everybody makes it seem like they've got it so hard. If they hate their job they are just joining a club with millions of members. I'd much rather be a whore than the guy on the 405. He's the one I feel sorry for because his future is as bleak as a hookers. At least she can make big money if she is good.
I think that's one reason why I never married. What a trap! If you're going to get married, marry someone a lot younger than you, who won't expand like an air bag the moment you put the ring on her finger. But I also have sympathy for the K-girl hooker--looks don't last, and most women would rather do something other than slurping spunk all day long.
In my experience the girls who get consistently high ratings deserve them. It's not hype. There are occasional exceptions, but they are rare. Girls like Kami, Lohan, Heidi, Dia are the real deal. These girls should get medals. They give a lot every time.
What makes these girls the best? Two things they seem to share are positive attitudes and lots of energy. And they seem to have figured out how to pace themselves. They take vacations ~~ they're off the boards for a few weeks ~~ and then they're back ~~ avoiding burn out ~~ keeping it fresh... smart...
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