Given the below discussions about talking to the police, it is time to post this link to the lecture explaining why one should not talk to the police.
First, you cannot say anything to convince the police to let you walk but you can certainly antagonize them. They are not the judge or jury. They ran a sting and caught you, and that's all they care about. They did not cuff you just to let you go. Second, if you tell some bullshit story to the police and they can prove in court that you lied, then you have compounded your troubles. Third, if you don't start talking and consequently dig your own grave, then asserting the Fifth Amendment cannot be used as evidence of guilt.
-- Modified on 2/8/2014 9:25:25 PM
In talking to the police in an activist manner that you describe, and saying things like how you only paid for cuddling then you abruptly refuse to answer questions about if you had sex unless your lawyer is present, you will only get yourself arrested.
When you say stuff like that, you are only proving that you were there, and that you had the means, motive and opportunity to do whatever crime they are accusing you of, then you are done right then and there. Period. Now you have an un-winnable case. It would have been better to say nothing at all. As for that article you linked to, read it again. That guy screwed himself by talking to the police in the first place, when he should have shut up in the first place. That court is supposed to be the last line of defense to uphold the constitution, and they really made an exception in this case in order to uphold a conviction of a murderer who was guilty as hell. If they ruled the other way, they would have to set him free. It was a bad case to use to protect the constitution, and therefore a bad day for America.
showed up and not some hooker serial killer or ass clown twice our size.
Screening will remain the same...regardless
I especially recommend AGAINST saying you were with the gals or that you kissed or cuddled. Responding gives the cop the in to question you further, each time twisting a little more until you slip up. LE sees you exit the hotel, "yes I was in the hotel." LE already witnessed that. If you supply any information that LE does not have, then that expands the available questioning. I would not give up anything that was behind closed doors. "Your Honor! This man would not talk to me!" You are legally required to identify yourself. Period. If LE finds a dead body in the hotel, they will want to talk to you.
There is no probable cause to hold you... if there is, giving LE more information will not help you. (Read this case) If not, ask if you are free to go? If you are not free to go, that's your que to STFU
If you know, you get to walk... if you don't know, it's giving false statements to an officer. Yeah, that worked out well!
If I ever get questioned by the cops about going into the hotel room with the provider, I just tell the cops that I was visiting my mistress. What is wrong with that??? Is there any law against visiting a girlfriend?
Asking me if I went to see a prostitute. I ask the cops what is their definition of a "prostitute." Sorry, Mister. Your definition is wrong. A prostitute a person who is employed by the pimp and serve anyone indiscriminately.
Did you ever read the journal article "Trading College Tuition for Sex"? Did you ever read the California Appeals Case Bergen v. Wood, 14 Cal.App.4th 854 (1993)? Did you ever read the Model Penal Code?
Note: In Bergen v Wood, the court wrote that companionship with sexual relationship is not prostitution relationship.
Do you understand what Aleister Crowley "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law. Love is the law, love under will?" Do you know the Liberation of Oz state that I have the right to love whom I will?
If you did not, then you should call the county prosecutor to get their assistance. If you lay your hands on me without the approval of the county attorney or the judge, there will be a lawsuit for color of law violations. I will write to the Knights Templar to tell them that you violated my sovereignty.
If the judge address me as "Mister," I will correct him and said I am "Master." Mister is a title given to an office holder. It is also given to a person holding office in the army. Mister and Mistress are given to the rulers. Look up the law school law dictionary Deans Law and Black's laws.
The sovereign citizen told me that the Penn. State judges burned Donna Potts by given her the title "Miss." She should of correct the judges and told that she is "Mistress Potts" not "Miss Potts."
It is not prostitution if you have companionship with the escort. If you jump into sex, then it is prostitution.
I know what I am doing. PLEASE DON'T TRY IT UNLESS YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING.
But you can share the journal article with officer friendly. So they known not to go after someone having companionship with a sugar baby or escort. You don't need to be an attorney. The law journal article is peer reviewed by attorneys. Just give officer friendly the link and let him read it. If all hobbyist and escort does it, the officers will know better not be questioning hobbyist and escorts coming out of hotel rooms. If they have questions, they can talk to the county attorney or their attorney. You don't have to answer legal questions.
Telling me that don't work. If you type a wrong URL at the Penn. Law School website, they will tell you that you are lost at sea. That is the Cestui Que Trust. This law school publishes the journal article about how to pay for sex. This is a hint that Penn. State Law School want to help you to gain your freedom. Only you can claim it. No one else.
The judges and attorneys have given you the answers on how to hobby with no guilt. You should thank the judges and attorneys for conspiring to sneak hobby friendly laws. If you had a bunch of Christians who are untrained in the law, you will not have the freedom to hobby. They will write laws that will criminalize every aspect of hobbying.
If you are not sure, look up the definition of person in AZ and OK statutes. If there is a Federal Reserve Note involves, the person is one of the government unit. Are you claiming to work for the government? If you don't tell Sheriff Joe about it, he will still harass you over the hobby. It won't hurt to send Sheriff Joe this journal article.
Why should we hobbyist and escorts live with this discrimination? Sugar Babies and sugar daddies get away while escorts and hobbyist get arrested for the same transaction. That is denial of equal treatment under the law. Not everyone can afford a sugar baby. If you have a budget and don't have money to burn, sugar dating is not for you. You are better off finding an escort.
Escorts are reviewed so you can know what you getting for your money. Sugar babies are not reviewed. They can take your money and run. It is a gift so there is no recovery.
A girlfriend is someone who gave you intimate companionship with or without pay. An escort is a temporary girlfriend. That why they advertise for GFE. Sugar babies sometimes only have a day relationship with their sugar daddy. Not every sugar relationship is long lasting. Are you going to tell me that someone cannot be a temporary girlfriend who gave you intimate companionship?
It is time to take activism. So you can avoid having to explain yourself to the cops. It is better to avoid confronting the cops than have to be confronted by the cops over hobbying when they didn't even see the money for sex transaction.
There is no probable cause to hold you... if there is, giving LE more information will not help you. (Read this case) If not, ask if you are free to go? If you are not free to go, that's your que to STFU.
-- Modified on 2/9/2014 9:43:45 PM
-- Modified on 2/9/2014 9:51:20 PM -- Modified on 2/9/2014 9:58:58 PM
And he did not give me her name.
Aside from the whole talk - don't talk question here (Those familiar with game theory already know that not talking is the strategy for the best payoff if the other person keeps quiet.) what typically happens to the John? Probation? Jail time? Fines? Public humiliation?
Just curious if anyone has some ideas or if I should just do some googling.Varies by jurisdiction.
If in AZ mandatory 15 days minimum in Tent City and mug shot on Sheriff Joe's site and can be found online forever. Federal - up to 10 years in prison as sex trafficking for "obtaining" commercial sex. In Maricopa County is the Catholic Charities John Diversion School. Not sure how often offered but extensive sessions on how Johns make children go into prostitution on average age 12, that all prostitution is violence against women and how ashamed you should be of yourself.Mistress, my ass. You don't even know her real name, she doesn't even know your real name. You got legal advice from a sovereign citizen? Those are the people who keep going to prison for tax evasion, and they get the maximum sentences too, because they act in bad faith, and are unrepentant of their crimes. The advice you are giving is only going to be looked at as if you were being a smart ass when questioned by a cop.
Start lying to a cop, and you now face "obstruction of justice / making false statements" criminal charges. Now your face criminal charges just for that. That is the reason Martha Stewart went to prison, she would not even have gone to prison if she said nothing, which was her right. At the very least, the fact you made false statements to a cop will be used against you in court to impeach your own testimony in a prostitution case. Even if you are innocent, the jury of your peers will conclude that innocent people don't make false statements to the police, so how could you be innocent? You are done. You would have been better off saying nothing at all, as that is your right. That is also the advice that you will always get from any competent criminal defense attorney, by the way.ROTFLMAO!
When they Google my "name" they'll get every real estate site from coast to coast!
He's the walking embodiment of the saying that a little knowledge is dangerous.
I will confess to services that are legal like cuddling. If they want to know if I had sex, I will tell them that I want to speak to an attorney. If the attorney says OK to this, then I will admit it.
If there is no specific agreement for money for sex, then it cannot be a crime. If a woman is pay for services other than sex, then the act doesn't constitute prostitution. I got this statement from the Youtube video " Sugar Daddies' Hook Up with Young Women."
I really don't think that it will work for a massage parlor. There is an operator and any sex act is considered commercial sex. If there is no pimp or operator, then the act can be considered noncommercial sex because no hiring.
If the escort session is about jumping into sex, then the act will be classified as prostitution. If an escort got busted for cuddling and having sex with the client with no promise of sex, then it can be a legal question that the judge can decide on. Why don't we bring this argument to the judges? Why do we have to live in fear and guilt?
Many of you think that I am crazy. The fact is that there is no right answer in law but better arguments. It doesn't necessary mean that everyone can walk away from criminal liabilities.
It is time to bring up these better arguments in court. I believe we have a good chance of winning in court over independent sex work. 20 years ago, I don't see we had a chance. But in today's society, the chances are much stronger. We have majority of Americans in favor of decriminalize independent sex work.
We can keep the prostitution laws on the books but ask the court for an injunction to stop police from enforcing prostitution laws against independent sex work in private. The prostitution laws are tools to crack down on people who work for pimp and pimps.
You do what you want. I cannot speak for everyone but myself only. Just want hobbyist and escort to know that failure to cooperate with police can be guilty evidence.
-- Modified on 2/8/2014 4:22:27 PM -- Modified on 2/8/2014 5:08:48 PM
As you don't want to listen to myself or others, I will just concede that you are certainly free to follow your own legal advice no matter how foolhardy it is. Be sure to tell the judge that you are forever protected from prosecution because you once hired an attorney. It is your right to make statements like that before sentencing.
is the biggest tool to hit this site in a while! I've gotten more than a couple of chuckles reading through his "down-the-rabbit-hole" legal analyses! “Contrariwise,' continued Tweedledee, 'if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic.”
If you show up at a "sting" LE has enough right there to convict you. You can cite every fuckin Law School Proverb (this ain't law theory it's the real world) that you wish and it ain't gonna do any good. Your intent (contacting a known hooker and showing up for the appointment) in nearly all jurisdictions is enough to get a conviction. So.........SHUT THE FUCK UP and contact the best local attorney you can afford. If you have no priors he may be able to get you off the hook.
Actually, Ron misspoke. If you show up at a sting, you will be arrested. AGREED If you are convicted is a matter for court... get a lawyer & tell it to the judge. LE will make the arrest(s)... and let the court sort it out.
STFU: You will not talk your way out of being arrested. Everything you say or the cop thinks you said will be twisted & attempted to be used against you. The more you say, the harder it will be for your Criminal Defense Attorney to get you aquitted or minimized.
Contacting a hooker and showing up for an appt is NOT probably cause for any arrest at least in Arizona.
There has to be an agreement of sex for money. That is why LE is clear at making sure there is an agreement either by what is said on the phone or e-mail. LE may say "for $220 will that be bareback or covered?" If escort implies either its a deal and a bust. Likewise for the customer - has to say something wrong not just show up making an appt. But LE is careful to trick you into saying something making it an illegal deal. For escorts it is worse since if you GFE or any bad words in ads then it IS an easy bust with no sex for money agreement needed since its solicitation with the ad or website itself. I often mention from the police report where a gal from the Phoenix temple had a undercover cop in bed with her and he tried every trick in the LE book to get her to say the wrong thing. But she didn't and no bust signal. He kept his shorts on and acted like a shy person with covers over him with nude gal in bed next to him. But she never said the wrong thing to assure him of any sex act. Sadly she faced even worse charges merely by association and pled to a felony but got probation. But they could not get her for prostitution. In is all in great detail in the honest police report.indicaman's several posts were removed. I hope everybody goes back & watches the law professor & the cop lecture (link in first post).
Heres the thing... if LE has something to arrest you on, they'll likely waste little time acting on that. You can not say anything that would prevent it, anything you say can only increase the odds of being arrested.