I think that regular image search (google, tineye, etc.) doesn't consider subject matter. It is NOT facial recognition software. It's kind of pixel by pixel comparison ... I think. But I think it can also find similar pics if cropped differently but not too differently or blurred differently but not too differently. Sometimes, the unique BACKGROUND was the discriminator that led to a match. When image search "fails", it says, e.g., "lingerie - here are more pictures of lingerie" and you get lingerie pics of similar but non-identical women in similar poses.
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It worked fine for finding K-girl pics with different names. But that doesn't tell you how many times it failed to find a match that existed (but wasn't found).
If the providers faces were all obfuscated in some way to protect their identities, would it still work?
If provider identities aren’t protected, the cost to them for someone providing this “service” would be rather high, I think. Or am I missing something?
This org and its sister orgs (aside from KGA and BGC) routinely advertise one girl in their lineup, as two different ones. They have different names, different pics, but it's actually the same girl. They even would have same measurements, but orgs saw me point this out on forums, and now they slightly change the measurements.
In the current lineup, Yuri is the same girl as Everly.
And Hami is the same girl as Yumi. And these girls been around too.
What does everyone here think of this tactic and whom is it aimed at?
To me, the answer is clear. Anyone who is in the loop in the bay, knows about this. Hence imo this is purely a noob trap, aimed to convey illusion of choice and give more business to these girls at expense of such noobs.
Interested to hear your opinions. And yes, even for regulars, the PO will say both girls available when requesting the lineup. Or both are off (haha).
having seen over 800 Kgirls, its pretty easy for me to tell they are the same girl, or at least that both girls are using the same photos, even though the posing is different. (You won't know which it is until you see both of them. It will either be the same girl or two girls using the same photos from the one girl, which could mean one of them is a new girl who doesn't have her own photos yet. I just wrote a long post about this on another thread, so I won't go into detail here. ) I assume your concern is for Newbies, and I agree that many could be fooled into thinking its two different girls. In reality, if a noob sees only one of them, then its no harm, no foul, but if he books the other one, expecting it to be a different girl, and its not, then yes, the booker has fucked him, unless he was intending to repeat with the first girl in the near future anyway.
For me, I would see the resemblance, and I would just ask the booker straight out if they are the same girl, because the photos are of the same girl. I would caution him to be straight with me if he wants to get future business from me. That's really all I can do, but I have a remarkable record of getting bookers to be honest with me. They all want my business because they all know I see new girls for one hour, but when I repeat, its always for two hours. Even a newbie becomes an instant VIP if he books two hour sessions now and then. I have had some bookers warn me off of girls they didn't think I would like, based on the kinds of girls I have repeated with in the past. I will ask to see a certain new girl, and a booker will sometimes tell me she's not my type, and I wouldn't like her. Sure enough, when the early reviews come it, the girl is definitely NOT my type, so the booker saved me from having a bad time.
... I didn't ask you to say what you would do. And I didn't ask you what VIP mongers would do. Clearly this isn't aimed at people who know. Just like fake reviews aren't aimed at people like me.
A monger who turns into VIP monger doesn't prevent other newbies from falling for this trap. But turning into VIP monger seems to be your universal solution for everything, without realizing you aren't solving the global problem of newbies getting fucked.
I want to see peoples opinions on the tactics. I'm glad you admit it's sleazy. Any other thoughts, pertaining to newbies only?
I thought rocket was asking.
800 Kgirls? WOW!!! I got a lot catching to do and I think I started this hobby way before you. Do you wait for the to come out of the gate at LAX? Just kidding....
Must be time consuming to keep track of them all, especially with all of the k-girls he's dated!
It ain't easy keeping a harem 
cut him some slack
She was working in Dallas only a couple of weeks ago, under a different name of course, but the Dallas agency was honest enough to use both pics under the one name she was working under.
I didn't see her while she was here as she looked a bit too old and a bit too hard for my taste. I honestly can't remember the name she used while in Dallas, but they were the exact same pics.
For the record, I have been very pleased with the agency in Dallas, the booker has been very forthcoming with me and has always steered me towards the girls who give good service and away from the ones who give bad service and has always been honest about their appearance at the same time.
Ive actually seen Hami. And brother Twoon has seen Yumi lol; his opinion of her is higher than mine.. she is good attitude girl from NY who likes sex has natural sexy body but is a bit too old face-wise for my liking... and service is just average (which is the main thing I look for), so no repeat for me.
I just don't get why do this. I mean, I get why they do this, but it's really basically a blatant fuck you to their clientele.
Permission to speak freely Rocketbro?
I agree with you that deception is wrong. And as you assert, this org's advertising practice is deceptive. Are you advocating AVOID AA, KP and KL?
Just curious?
You know my history with this org. I've been banned and unbanned. The legend Bianca was at AA. Jesi is at KL. We both sessioned with Yumi but you didn't get the 'Pooch Experience'; my most humblest apologies. I think her pooch will like Rocketbro!!! Ha ha I haven't sessioned with Everly but Bora got me; she really got me good. She got me not knowing where I'm going...
Anyhow, is this just a PSA to newbies at TER that this org is deceptive and caveat emptor or completely AVOID?
Respectfully submitted
Good question, brother twoon.
Nah, it isnt. I'm not advising to avoid. These orgs are considered on the lower tier, and you know the screening is basically nonexistent. But they do have some good girls sometimes. Even alpacas, when they have Haru or Snow or Hourglass, I'm game. Girls >>> orgs. Lol.
Yoko, Angela, even waterworks Amy are solid choices for service. Which is what I enjoy. So I'm not gonna say avoid this org. Especially if ppl like service.
I just think it's kind of messed up for them to do this. You and me know these are the same girls. Some poor schmucks don't. It's also the only place I've seen this happen at. So I'm trying to see if anyone has any ideas or justification for this tactics. Maybe I'm missing something.
Well, that and if bay area newbie mongers are reading this, maybe it will help them. This board is free to read to anyone in the internet.
I'm a simple man. If you see a girl you've seen and liked before, who cares about the org. See the girl.
Ps: bd007 is my "notalias" , if anyone's confused. I finally goofed up and didn't choose my rocket alias for responding here.
Permission to speak freely Rocketbro?
One more thing. Have you sessioned with ATF Mina? She uses fake pics which is deceptive. But I must say she is more beautiful than her stock pics.
ATF Mina in my opinion is the Merry Poppins of RAs; practically perfect in every way possible. And is a fantastic first kgirl sexperience for a newbie...
Is ATF Mina an example to you of caveat emptor or AVOID because of her advertising with false pics?
Just curious where you draw the line?
While I don't like fake pics, I don't think I ever said that you should avoid girls using fake pics.
I mean, I always liked Haru, she uses clearly fake pics. Claire, who is my atf, has very little resemblance to her pics. I haven't seen Mina, but I'm sure shes great from the feedback,regardless of pics.
This thread is about particular tactics. Tbf, I haven't seen it in any other agencies.
...Even then, I doubt any K-fanboy would report it to TER.
I never said it was a TER problem. It isn't. I don't see why it can't be discussed though.
Should be discussed.
I'd change how the subject is written though. TER can solve the problem because it can link the names into the same provider profile so no one, including the newbies, are confused.
Does this assume there are profiles for each girl?
This isn't always the case, especially with girls who have short stays or change names a lot.
It assume that either reviews were submitted under the different names and published so profiles exist. In that case providing the evidence the reviews are for the same person can get them merged into a single profile with the names shown.
If someone has good proof that the review submitted is for someone that is also using another name they should be able to get both names associated with the review and resulting profile.
You will never prevent this from ever happening, only get to react to events. I'm just saying TER has some tools to address the problem not that it can prevent it. To the extent people know a given agency has a tendency to play that game they will be skeptical and more attentive in choosing.
If it turns into a game of whack a mole, well that sucks. The incentives will be to only deal with reputable agencies (or providers with solid references). That does have the implication of making the initiation fee a bit higher for newbies but also included some good training for them. But it also means that the less reputable agencies will always be marginalized and so less likely to attract or retain top talent -- or top clients.
This is not so different from the real world.
Since TER came back online in the US about updating links and combining reviews for girls with more than one profile. Many of the orgs that host touring girls will leave a girl's ad link active for a week or two after they leave. Then she shows up in another city under a new name, but with the same photos. If someone reports it quickly, while both links are active to her photos, and TER can see that both profiles have the same photos, its a no-brainer to consolidate the two profiles into one. Its not an automatic fix if the link from the previous city no longer works. More evidence may be required. The key is timely monger reporting. Unless one of us reports it, TER doesn't know the two profiles are the same girl. Sometimes I have gotten 2 free VIP days for reporting these kinds of problems, but not always, so not sure what the exact requirements are, but I'm not doing it for the free days (I have several years banked in my account), but that makes it worth the time to report it if you happen to run across it while you are browsing Kgirls in your area.
Only looked at the Yuri/Everly ads.
Face seems to be the same girl. Cup side is a different story and agree that could cause real disappointment to anyone that was not aware of how the agency works.
I would be curious about something though. Have you booked with the girl under one name and then gone back to book under the other name another day? If so, what is the reaction from that agency? They allow that or do they tell you the requested one is booked already but you can see the other girl?
So if the general pics are representative of the girl then either set is so not overly misleading. The cup size to me would be the issue. Now perhaps she really is a C and they marketing is trying to increase the appeal to either side. I don't really see this as any worse (or better) than one set of pics that inflate or deflate cups based on who else might be in the rotation at the time.
Have to say, I've not ever seen that here (DMV). Then again, the agencies here tend to only have two or three girls at a time, and at most two separate locations (ignoring moves) so probably could not really work here.
Why? Well, yes it is about driving revenue. That's the case for all advertisement. While I do agree that newbies will mostly fail to recognize this given lack or experience, I suspect more than a few non-newbies will also fail to recognize the situation so not sure it's really targeted at newbies.
One thing I do find interesting about these discussions and similar ones over the years. I seems within this world there is both a more vocal demand for truth in advertising, and the belief that it exists among the "younger" in the crowd than is the case in real life. I find that a bit of amusing/interesting behavior by people. Not sure if it comes from the "honor among thieves" thinking or is driven more by the fantasy nature of this activity -- many just want to believe so fool themselves.
Do I think it crosses a line for me? I'm not going to decide here as I've never had to deal with it. I'll leave that classification to the Cali guys who are living with it.
I've never tried the tactics you described, but since the girls are the same and when theyre off, they're off on the same day and time, then I don't see any other response from booker than that she's not available.
A non-newbie in the bay who is in the loop and networking, like cdl would says, knows about this tactics as it mentioned a lot on bay forums when discussing this org.
It's disappointing to me that you deferred judgment on this matter...
Regarding to truth and advertisements, there are many shades of truth and as many different gradations of lies. Fake pics, fake measurements, fake descriptions, rebrands, advertising same girl as 2different ones, etc, they are all different in magnitude.
So far, I take your answer to be the usual "their game, their rules" response. It would be nice to know where you draw the line even without having first-hand experience. I don't get why you even need one.
Let's say two out of three girls in your local org are the same girl. Boom. Done.
How about advertising same girl as 5 different girls? Would it make it different? What about marketing a 60 year old woman as a 30 year old?
Ie, what is the level of lies where you actually draw a line at and don't mention something about truth in advertising, younger crowd (honestly don't know why you even took that shot) or anything of the sort?
Does this line even exist? Is it part of the game to advertise a blowup doll as a working girl? Is there some range where you can abandon the "yes, but" part and flat out say it's unacceptable, without any conditionals? Bait and switch? A pimp with a gun? Again, just trying to establish the range here.
Also, I don't get the "honor among thieves" quip. Do you think mongers are thieves for buying sex? Or are the orgs thieves here, ie we are expecting honesty our of illegal entities ? Not sure what exactly you meant there.
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"How about advertising same girl as 5 different girls? Would it make it different? What about marketing a 60 year old woman as a 30 year old? "
Seriously? You cannot get to that position from what I said so at least try to keep the discussion at an adult or rational level.
I don't get all upset about the fact the Camaro and Firebird are essentially the same car. I don't get too upset that the Chrysler 300 and the Challenger were also very much the same car, same with the Crossfire and models of the Mercedes 320.
All I said is I will not make a call as I do not have direct experience with the problem. As such I really don't know if that would cause a problem or not -- at least for me. I did say I thought at best it would be confusing, that leaves a lot of room for it being a problem too.
And, at the end of the day, other people are going to do whatever the fuck they think they should. What I should do about that is decide how I best deal with what other people choose to do so it doesn't cause me problems. I cannot make other people choices for them -- nor in many way do I want to and particularly where I can address any problems their choices might cause me problem without insisting they change at all. I control me not others.
This is not to say I will tolerate just anything or submit to whatever others insist. It merely saying I don't need to waste my time dealing with such people when I have a lot of other alternatives. They are making their own bed and need to sleep in it - if that means alone and without my business we can both be happy. If I find I have to be more confrontational that is also an option.
But before I hop on someone else's bandwagon I want more than mere theory and idealistic principle.
Again, all I've said is that it's unclear to me where you, in particular, draw the line on orgs marketing. I'm interested in the range of what you consider unacceptable. Does this mean you do draw the line at the "marketing a 60 year old woman as 30 year old"? This happens more time than one would think with corgs (not korgs). Or does this mean if you haven't had direct experience with that, you would also defer judgment in such case? Very unclear to me.
This topic is literally titled as "what do we think of". I'm not as interested in solving this problem,although I'm thankful on being suggested ways how to solve it on TER. And I'm not interested in solving it fully because there isn't a way to solve it fully without org cooperation. Newbies will always get fucked by it because it's impossible to let every single one of them be aware of it, no matter hard I would try. I'm interested in YOUR thoughts.
I'm interested in your thoughts, and what I find is that you're very hesitant to make a judgment,and I'm trying to understand where you stand. It took me a while to finally get it from you that you do think it's unacceptable to BL mongers for subpar reviews.
I'm trying to understand what you range of acceptable and unacceptable is.
How about this, have you ever had a direct experience that made you feel strongly about an orgs advertisement strategy, in which you can make a judgment call?
And I'm not really a car guy, so I did not get your car analogy. Sorry.
They are the same girl, I am not guessing on this, this is not mere theory I know this for an absolute FACT.
She was working in Dallas a few weeks ago under the name Diva, and she used both the pics depicting Yumi and Hami under her ad as Diva. The booker in Dallas told me that I would be happier with one of her other girls so I never did see her in person, but this is not speculation or conjecture the pics of Yumi and of Hami are of the exact same girl 100% positive
Stipulating that the photos advertising Diva were also used to advertise Yumi and Hami (I have no personal knowledge of this), you do indeed know for an absolute FACT that the photos are the same.
Now -- what makes you or any of us think those photos depict the actual girl(s) working as Yumi or Hami? It is not unusual in my area for hooker (and K-girl) ad photos to be of someone else entirely, and to be passed around and reused by several orgs or for several girls.
So unless you did see (in the literal sense) both Yumi and Hami, what elevates your opinion above the speculation or conjecture that those photos are of her? (It's not absolutely clear from what you wrote -- did you see both of her?)
Did I miss a point of logic on the connection of a photo to a person? Or on the veracity of bookers?
and they don't use those same practice, actually the booker from the Dallas agency suggested I see a different girl besides Yumi/Hami/Diva because she knew she was not going to be my type. Until this booker lies to me I have to believe her, not an agency in CA who obviously is trying to mislead their clients.
Either the agency is using totally fake pics and the girl who was in Dallas isn't there in the Bay area at all, or they trying to pretend they have more girls than they actually do. Either way, they are being dishonest.
I was not disputing the one girl two names/set of pictures.
The difference between a Firebird and Camaro or the 300 and the Challenger (early on at least) was cosmetic not substance.
The comparison would be what makeup and outfit she opens the door wearing. Would that be a big deal to anyone?
And if you see the girl, don't want to repeat, text booker next day for another girl and then see this same girl when you open the door while expecting an actual different human with different set of assets, what then?
It's utterly hilarious how one-sided you tend to look one these. Maybe it's time to call newbies idiots again? You struggle so much as to say what's your range of unacceptable marketing behavior when it comes to kgirl orgs.
I remember when some gentlemen in Seattle maintained a website that was kind of an archive (and more!) of K-girls. Even tho' on the east coast, I could search and find the photos and various names of those visiting my neck of the woods (and cross check their TER Reviews under their different names). It turns out that "a K-girl by any other name would still smell as sweet."
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That website was taken down as part of a larger operation.
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Would it be possible to bring back such a shrine to, er, archive of our beautiful friends? Any volunteers?
EDIT: pic not loading; changed pic
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The league was basically an example of a VIP monger club slash org that was careless. They are the guys who drove girls from/to airports, cosigned leases, etc and were effectively a part of several orgs. And, they promoted and wrote reviews of their own girls. Everyone should read up on the Bellevue busts to understand the importance of not shitting where you eat, and guarding privacy.
As far as picture archives, the neurotic donkey pics are still up, part of my dump was also dump of links. The pics are still hosted on their servers. Of course, the issue is you need to know girl name to search for her. But if you do, even Google image search will do the trick.
I just noticed that there is no PM option for an alias. I USED TO be able to PM aliases, e.g., Smartie. Did TER remove PM-to-an-alias or is it a glitch?
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As I recall, the club member who built and maintained that web site did not even participate in the BCD activities. He was a computer nerd who worked for a major company in that area. He was charged for his role in the activities anyway. He was from a foreign country and culture and felt tremendous shame and took his own life.
The league was basically an example of a VIP monger club slash org that was careless. They are the guys who drove girls from/to airports, cosigned leases, etc and were effectively a part of several orgs. And, they promoted and wrote reviews of their own girls. Everyone should read up on the Bellevue busts to understand the importance of not shitting where you eat, and guarding privacy.
As far as picture archives, the neurotic donkey pics are still up, part of my dump was also dump of links. The pics are still hosted on their servers. Of course, the issue is you need to know girl name to search for her. But if you do, even Google image search will do the trick.
Tahoe Ted guy who built the site and community was white (his name suggests Latvia/Lithuania as his motherland), was super proud of the circle and that thing was basically his entire life. Yeah he killed himself, unfortunately.
Let's just say it wasn't the pic archive that got the league. It was their aversion to keeping shit under wraps. Cops couldn't even pin usernames to real people and had to watch them get together irl and then get their license plates by simply following them. And the initial lead, as always, was created via a neighbor complaint.
It was kind of sad, really.
They were so absorbed in the idea that they were these white knights who took care of the girls that they lost sight of the fact that they were engaged in an illegal operation.
We can argue all day about whether what they (and we) were doing should be illegal. But it was and continues to be. And they did not protect themselves like a person fully aware of this fact should.
That should be a lesson to us all.
I don't think they were purely white knights. They were just drunk on how easy it was to fuck different kgirls with either huge discount or even earning money from them. I'm sure they thought they were helping the girls a lot and everyone was happy. And they got careless af.
You can note that the only people charged and prosecuted in this case were people who actually advertised and promoted their own girls, as well as inevitably the website creator. Most Johns who were there to fuck only were not indicted.
As Biggie would say, never get high on your own supply. Another reason why being that VIP monger that goes as far as to engage in helping girls outside of work and cosigning leases etc, and establishes networks with org owners/bookers is a very risky idea.
I did not say, nor do I believe, that they were purely white knights. Nor do I believe they were “just drunk on how easy it was to fuck”.
I believe there was, as is almost always the case with human beings, a spectrum of motivations involved. But I remain convinced that many, especially those with whom I was in close contact, were quite absorbed with their idea of being white knights, along with their own individual cocktails of rationalizations and delusions.
Still, you are free to agree or disagree as you wish. This is simply my own opinion.
even though no johns were indicted, their real names were in the local news for months. A few marriages were destroyed, some guys lost their respectable jobs, and these guys will have to face their families for the rest of their lives knowing that their secret life is known to everyone. For some guys, this outcome is worse than being indicted.
Their penchant for seeing each other face to face (I was told it was a requirement for membership) was, from what I could see, one of their greatest vulnerabilities.
That makes me think about monger meet & greets. Although I agree that there is great potential for fun in getting together and meeting those who share this interest with us. From the few that I’ve seen (but not attended) so far, it is not common to take what I would consider sufficient caution to protect anonymity. Though I haven’t dug too deeply into this. Maybe there were/are more protections in place than I knew/know about.
Please take this as a recommendation from one of your fellow mongers and not as a criticism. I hope we all learn from the League’s tragic experience that protecting anonymity is key.
I will now return to the primary purpose of our presence here. Getting well and thoroughly laid by lovely and enthusiastic Korean women.
After reading all this, I need to go see one of my favorite Korean mental health counselors for a two hour therapy session.
I don't think they were purely white knights. They were just drunk on how easy it was to fuck different kgirls with either huge discount or even earning money from them. I'm sure they thought they were helping the girls a lot and everyone was happy. And they got careless af.
Click on the headline of his post, then click his alias. It will take you to your message board, preaddressed to him.
What is it from that site/league that you want to bring back that you can’t do now?
When I saw an ad for someone on the east coast (often someone new but maybe even someone that had been in NYC for a while), I could do an image search and frequently find the SAME PIC on the league's site, with other names that might have been used, and then the associated Profiles. Instead of having to TOFTT, I had a good idea of who I wanted to see.
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Sometimes, by scanning the "archive", I'd see a pic I'd recognize as being used local to me (east coast) and, based on comments, look into someone I might have otherwise overlooked.
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And as you can tell from the discussion here, the situation persists. Is Cami Yuri? Is Yuri Everly? Is Hami Cami? Are Ini, Mini, Myni, and Moe the same K-girl?
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A picture archive would provide a useful concordance of name - pic info.
What is it from that site/league that you want to bring back that you can’t do now?
If the providers faces were all obfuscated in some way to protect their identities, would it still work?
If provider identities aren’t protected, the cost to them for someone providing this “service” would be rather high, I think. Or am I missing something?
I think that regular image search (google, tineye, etc.) doesn't consider subject matter. It is NOT facial recognition software. It's kind of pixel by pixel comparison ... I think. But I think it can also find similar pics if cropped differently but not too differently or blurred differently but not too differently. Sometimes, the unique BACKGROUND was the discriminator that led to a match. When image search "fails", it says, e.g., "lingerie - here are more pictures of lingerie" and you get lingerie pics of similar but non-identical women in similar poses.
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It worked fine for finding K-girl pics with different names. But that doesn't tell you how many times it failed to find a match that existed (but wasn't found).
If the providers faces were all obfuscated in some way to protect their identities, would it still work?
If provider identities aren’t protected, the cost to them for someone providing this “service” would be rather high, I think. Or am I missing something?
It depends on the image search engine. I've heard that Bing and Yandex are very good at similar image search. To the point people used them to search for porn actresses. Ie give the engine a still and it will identify her in other xxx movies.
Google reverse image search is pretty bad by now. I don't think they seriously updated it in ages and they throttle the api requests down to a crawl.
Anyway, the challenge is that you need to maintain a database of at least girl name org name and matching pics. And then you'd need some image recognition engine, if you're doing it locally.
Something like this I guess: http://sourceforge.net/projects/imgseek/
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At least in NYC, many of the agencies kept the directories and files intact but just removed the names of the departed K-girls from the "Models" or "Current" index page. If you remembered someone's name, you could find their "old" photos from a month or more ago. Just go to someone's current page and change the name:
www.agencyname.com/photos/aya CURRENT Aya photos
www.agencyname.com/photos/bya Bya no longer current, but photos still in their directory, ready for a return trip.
First the good news:
They stopped advertising Yuri DD as Everly. Thank you Mr Sam!
Now the bad news:
Hami is still being advertised as Yumi 
However at least their measurements are equal now, although it's funny one has weight and other doesn't.
It kinda makes me wonder if Starr DD and Betty DD are still being advertised as different? I don't even look at that org anymore, so I can't say.
Are those the same girl too?
If you had an experience with one or both, please do share.