I found it surprising that it is almost half and half concerning if guys think seeing a provider is actually cheating on their spouse or S.O. If you are married or in a relationship and you have sex with someone else, how can it not be considered cheating, of course unless you are Bill Clinton LOL. I'm not saying you should have this huge guilt trip but call it for what it is. Can someone indicate to me how it could not be considered cheating?

I have to agree with Former Pro. Who the hell made up the concept, sex between consenting adults is cheating? I think it is better than being miserable, feeling helpless, loosing your temper, punching doors, etc....

By the there is whole lot more cheatings going on in the world, but  sex between consenting adults is considered cheating? How and why is the question? Not guilt.

Yeah Right, Bernie cheated World com employees out of millions and destroyed few lives. Now that is cheating!

Does Bernie have guilty feeling, doesn't look like it! Still walking around free and trying to figure out how to hide before someone takes it away and by God, he will most probably succeed!

i asked my dad about 10 years ago, over quite a few drinks, if he ever cheated on my mom.
he said define cheating.
i defined cheating as loving someone else. having an affair.
he nodded and said confidently No.

dad's definition of cheating has worked for me ever since. it makes sense.

a man can care about a provider, she can be his ATF, GFE. but as long as dollars or donuts change hands, its not an affair.
and therefore not cheating.
same with fking the temp or some hottie you picked up in the hotel bar while you were in topeka for a convention.
that stuff is just healthy exercise

again, just my .02
Nic

I knew there was a reason I liked you. I mean beside the fact that you are really good at what you do

In some ways it can benefit a marriage because not only does it keep a man interested in sex for when the wife finally wants some but keeps his attitude good for the rest of the family.

Wind

So according to this point of view, it is not cheating if you pay for it and or don't get emotionally involved? I wonder if the wife found out about the detacted sex if she would feel the same way.

Bottom line is men will and are going to look and probably act, if given the opportunity, on getting some on the side. Men from Preachers to ditch diggers fall to the pursuit of some stray A$$. There are some women who accept this reality as long as he doesn't "bring it home".  But if he does or doesn't does not change the fact that it is cheating.

Like I said before, be honest with yourself and call it for what it is. No need to have a massive guilt trip for coming to the realization that yes, you, like about a million other guys, have or are cheating, no matter how you rationalize it.

Very cool, Nic.
Your view of life is stunningly perceptive.

Hmmm, is that my divining rod pointing your way?  

Does that mean if you made a commitment not to do that when you took your vows, that's still not cheating?  If you and your spouse had an agreement before you were married that it was ok to see a provider or have a sexual fling while out of town, I don't think that's cheating.  If the understanding was you were going to be sexually faithful to each other and you're not, how could that not be cheating?  I would be interested in hearing what your spouses would say if they were posed the same question.

End Of Message

silly!

I agree with Nic's point of view, but yet I know my wife wouldn't agree.  (If she knew.)  So it's not an easy question!  Each has to make his/her own call.

unless youve written your vows, they pretty much say "forsaking all others, be true to her/him as long as you both shall live"
i stand by what i said, this is LOVE which is not something you have with a provider OR with some tart in topeka.

you must be wracked with guilt when you hobby, which is such a shame... prolly why you posted using an alias?

this is a hobby!
just like fishing, hunting or restoring cars... it takes your money and your time and your energy and you do it WithOut your spouse...
and when you go back to your spouse, you are refreshed, relaxed and easier to be around.

if it makes you feel like sht, for EveryOnes sake, find another hobby!

Well, if it's just a "hobby", then why don't people tell their wives what they are doing??

You know, if it's just like fishing.....

I don't feel guilty because I only partake as a threesome with my wife.  I have never or would I ever cheat on my wife.  That's my personal decision.  

If someone wants be a hobbiest, go do it. That is your personal decision.  I won't judge you because want to do it.

Just be honest with yourself.  You do what you do because you get something you want out of it.  Whatever "that" is doesn't matter.  

By the way, you are a beautiful woman and I bet you are very good at what you do.

No offense meant!

You are funny!

Seriously though, why bother to say your vows if you don't believe in them? In this Western society, 99% of women are not going to let their man say, on their wedding day, "I love you but I'm going to get some on the side, but its cool as long as I pay for it or don't get emotionally attached LOL!" "And by the way honey, I'll come home with less stress, refreshed, and be a better husband for ya. Love ya! I Do!"

You might fall into that 1% who IF she did believe in marriage would be open enough to be cool with knowing your man is getting some stray booty. You are rare if that is the case. I would love to hear what your vows would be if you believed in marriage.

I agree with the orginal poster's comments. Guys are going to do it if given the opportunity and if they don't think they are going to get caught. That is how we justify it. If we don't get caught, its cool. (That is the mind set of most criminals too, interesting). It's in our DNA so I don't feel guilty until caught, like MOST guys. Yes I don't freak out over it but I do know that IT IS cheating. And yes like most guys, if the shoe was on the other foot, I would blow a gasket if I found out (but most women will too). Boy us guys sure are greedy and selfish LOL.

Why this seems to bother you so much. Why should it matter to you if guys rationalize their cheating or not. Does it hurt you?
Will it make you feel better if we all stand up and admit WE ARE CHEATERS?

People rationalize the wrond or bad stuff they do everyday without even thinking about it. Of course society (the media has to sensationalize) even makes that worse by labeling everything to give people excuses. Road Rage, Depression, Acute Anxiety, Hyper Active, Hate Crime, Home Invasion and the list is endless. Then they want to make a pill that fixes the said problem so everybody is on prosac and feeling no pain.

Wind

End Of Message

this answer was a no brainer :P

LOL

Jane, you ignorant misguided slut. (hope you're old enough to know what that means)  I'm sure some people lie about going fishing too!  So if they lie about fishing, which is a hobby, then it's ok to ......

Was that sarcastic?

There really is an not arguement here.  Regardless of reason, guilt, excuse, definition, etc, seeing a provider without your wife's knowledge is cheating.

There's a simple method of proof...  If you tell your wife about your 'hobby,' will she consider it cheating?  If you use the definition of LOVE as your escape clause, you have created an oxy-moron.  How can you love someone completely yet still deceive them and be unfaithful?  All this is food for thought and not necessarily how I feel.

We all have our reasons for seeing providers, but let's not call it something that it isn't.

-- Modified on 7/24/2003 2:09:59 PM

It doesn't bother me at all. Never said it did. I was just starting conversation but I think you hit on something that I was saying all along and that is why do guys fell the need to lie to themselve's? Its not going to stop you from doing what you are going to do so at least be honest with yourself and call it what it is. Lying to yourself IS like taking that pill to try to solve the problem or shift responsibility for a temporary fix. Like I said, a guy is going to do it anyway. If he was guilty about it he probably wouldn't do it ......... much LOL. Seriously though I just started the thread just because I was curious as to why people felt a need to lie to themselves. But then again if it was good for Bill Clinton, damn it, that should be good enough for me! Some people just take themselves too seriously LOL. No morality play here except what you choose to impose on yourself.

Well, I am not cheating as our former president said oral sex ain't sex. So, as long as it's just a BJ, then "I did not have sex with that provider"

Then you're really missing out.  'Cause she's a hell of a lot better than your wife.  Besides, your wife does that freaky thing with the peanut butter and the dog.  eww.

Read all of it. Former Pro and Wndrider makes good points.

In the end, it appeared to me, the whole discussion turned out be narrow and limited, especially, when some started marriage vows to make their points.

In some societies (Japan, Hong Kong, Singapore,  England, Germany, Etc.) it is very common for men to have mistresses. They take care of their wives and their mistresses and treat them well. In some cases, wives know it and some cases they don't. If the man can afford, he may have many mistresses.

I am wondering, is this the reason, divorces are low in these countries?

Not starting a cultural or rligious war here. Just the differences in thinking!

By the way, myself being a hobbysts, absolutely hav no guilt feelings whatsoever and have nothing to feel guilty about.