TER General

Udo the medical facts/epidemiology are different from what has been represented in this thread
JeffEng16 22 Reviews 942 reads
posted

With all due respect to the  well meaning people who have chimed in on this thread about paying for sex or "you get what you pay for,  or "it cost you more than money" or "this is why I see bodyrub girls LOL instead of going to Asian parlors" (it's wide spread in the WASP civie population or in all ethnic groups civie or hobby population not particularly endemic to Asians at all),  or that sex is cheap in Thailand,and looking at this thread, it's not that everyone can pay for sex, it's that asymptomatic Chlamydia is so wide spread in the US and world population and that less than half of the population in the US, and much less than that abroad gets tested and the large numbers of people who are asymptomatic the medical facts on Chlamydia Trachomatis are signficantly different in some respect as to "you get what you pay for" and "lower class or lower cost women" as has been inferred.  Chlamydia is widespread, and asymptomatic Chalmydia is just as prevelant on the upper east side of Manhatten (or name an expensiove neighborhood in a city) as it is on the  lower east side. Chlamydia is the most commonly transmitted STD, it's the most commonly reported STD in the U.S., and it's significantly underreported and under discovered.

Nationally, the annual screening rate increased from 25.3% in 2000 to 43.6% in 2006, then decreased slightly to 41.6% in 2007, and less abroad.

Chlamydia Trachomatis conjunctivitis (eye infection) can just as easily be caused by sexual  transmission as it can from direct hand to eye contact, contrary to the OP's perception of how he might have gotten it. I reported the first case known in the world of Chlamydia Trachomatis Endocarditis in the cardiology literature in a patient who was pregnant.  It infected her aortic and mitral  valves causing a ring abcess, then perforated the pericardium (the protective covering around the heart, and bled into her pericardium causing a cardiac tamponade, constricting her ventricles and causing congestive heart failure, and ultimately death.

Oral sex, giving or receiving can transmit Chlamydia, particularly when it is asymptomatic in the throats or nasopharynx of infected individuals.

Epidemiologic studies and the medical literature including the infectious disease literature estimate that Chlamydia is asymptomatic in 75% of women and 50% of men. In some studies in the infectious disease literature women are asymptomatic 90% of the time.  It doesn't just go away without treatment, so these individuals can spread it for years and years if untreated. About 30% of patients both sexes who have Chlamydia have concomiitant  GC or Gonnorrhea. Gonorrhea is predominantly asymptomatic in men or women with a painful discharge, sometimes yellowish sometimes not.

There are about 2.8 million cases of Chlamydia in all strata of the socioeconomic population in the U.S., and commonly I see physicians fail to treat their patient's partner for Chlamydia.  It is strongly recommended if you Dx Chlamydia, that you insist that the patient's partner come in for treatment.  That's much easier of course in a monogomous civie relationship, and can be impossible or even notfification of the partner or partners can be impossible or difficult in the hobby population or in the civie population not having monogomous sex obviously.

The CDC recommends testing once a year, not once a week, and in the hobby twice a year if you're asymptomatic makes sense.  If you have symptoms of a discharge from the penis or the cervix, abdominal lower quadrant pain, cervical pain, testicular epididymal area pain, pain or itching near the opening of the penis, rectal pain, rectal discharge or rectal bleeding,   then you should be seen and tested for the cause.  Obviously painless rectal bleeding can more commonly occur from hemorrhoids or an upper GI source or even a lower GI source.  Symptoms usually occur when they occur 1-3 weeks after exposure.

The most prevelant threats are spreading between  men and women, as well as men and men and women and women, and  sterility for women and it's the most common cause of sterility along with other forms of PID, and it causes infection in the tubes or ovaries, or tissue surrounding both of these that then spreads to the tubes or ovaries that can lead to sterility about 15% of cases.  Chlamydia can cause epididymitis in men, and usually it is easily diagnosed by touching the epidydimis although it's not the only bacteria that can do this.

Of course Chalmydia in the cervix can migrate up to the tubes and then to the ovaries. It's underreported because it's predominantly asymptomatic, and because of that thousands of individuals if not ten thousands of individuals who have it in the US don't test for it.

It would not make medical or economic sense to test for Chlamydia once a week as the OP suggests.  Additionally, many physicians treat discharges in both sexes empirically, and don't always test for Chlamydia and other organisms although they should.

http://www.cdc.gov/std/chlamydia/stdfact-chlamydia.htm

http://www.cdc.gov/std/treatment/2010/chlamydial-infections.htm

http://www.cdc.gov/std/chlamydia/

As to the eye, there are 3 types of Chlamydia and several subtypes Chlamydia Trachomatis or "trachoma" is the most common. It's the  most common STD and the leading cause of PID or pelvic inflammatory disease.  It is significantly underdiagonsed in the world and the US, because most of the time, it's asymptomatic.  I'm not sure how the OP actually got his eye infection, because you don't have to have direct contact with any type of Chlamydia into the eye area to get a Chlamydial infection in any organ where it can locate in your body. It can be transmitted via vaginal, anal or oral sex.  I understand the OP practiced "safe sex", meaning he used a condom, but that doesn't guarantee he couldn't have contracted Chalmydia from other means, and we don't know for certain that the hobby of the OP was the source of his Chlamydial eye infection.

Civies certainly carry and transmit Chlamydia, and in big numbers, and because of the simple numbers in the population spread it more than it is spread in the hobby.

My point there is that you more likely could have contracted Chlamydia through some other route than hand to eye, and from some other sexual encounter than the hobby in Thialand or the hobby any where else.

Individuals who have had Chlamyida and been treated are more prone to have it again, because of reinfection, not treatment failure.

From CDC Treatment  Recommendations:
http://www.cdc.gov/std/treatment/2010/chlamydial-infections.htm

"Chlamydia-infected women and men should be retested approximately 3 months after treatment, regardless of whether they believe that their sex partners were treated. If retesting at 3 months is not possible, clinicians should retest whenever persons next present for medical care in the 12 months following initial treatment.

Management of Sex Partners
Patients should be instructed to refer their sex partners for evaluation, testing, and treatment if they had sexual contact with the patient during the 60 days preceding onset of the patient’s symptoms or chlamydia diagnosis. Although the exposure intervals defined for the identification of at-risk sex partners are based on limited evaluation, the most recent sex partner should be evaluated and treated, even if the time of the last sexual contact was >60 days before symptom onset or diagnosis"


It can be transmitted via oral sex as well. It can be transmitted from man to man as well, and woman to woman.  As the CDC  article says, asymptomatic Chlamydia is very prevelant in teen aged girls who are sexually active because they seem to be more susceptible to infection, although all the reasons for this are still not known.

Chlamydia is wide spread asymptomatic in the throats/nasopharynx of men and women, and transmitted by oral sex with an infected partner.






-- Modified on 8/8/2012 9:58:00 PM

Udo2476 reads

I arrived home from a two week vacation in Thailand and developed a severe eye infection the next day. My vision was great reduced as my eye was nearly shut, cherry red and dripping yellow pus. My general doctor told me it was the worst eye he ever saw in his life.

Ultimately, I went to the opthalmologist for treatment and the infection was found to be Chlamydia Trachoma. I suffered badly for about two weeks and was not able to drive a car or work. The infection was finally eliminated by a procedure where my eyelids were inverted and scraped of infected tissue while I took two consecutive doses of Azithromycin (1 gram per day).

I was very active as a hobbyist in Thailand since the cost per session was very cheap ($25-$50 US dollars) for GFE. I did practice safe sex for every session on this trip. However, I had daty, dfk and bbbj for every session.

The scary thing is that my doctor told me that Chlamydia can be easily transmitted to the eye by just touching a woman's infected genitals and then accidentally rubbing your eyes afterward without first disinfecting your hands. Scary thought since you can have "safe sex" and still develop a severe and possibly blinding eye infection.

Everyone is afraid of AIDS. However, AIDS is easily prevented with safe sex. How common is Chlamydia among US providers? Do providers get tested weekly for disease?

I am just pretty scared to partake in the hobby since "safe sex" can still get you sick. Anyone have any ideas?

Babe.  There is a good reason why it is so cheap.  You just paid the full price....and that is a very high *cost* isn't it?  Was it worth it, darling? ;)

Next time, flip a good, solid provider her rate and know that we are clean and not revolving doors.  There is a damn good reason why we are worth every dime you give us.  

I won't get into the whole lecture about what those poor girls go through.  You can do the research on your own.

xo

crazyshit900 reads

You do get what you pay for.

With lower-cost providers, you get a plethora of every Tom, Dick and Harry trying to get off for the cheapest price possible, and women who are willing to up the volume and the risk factor because they need the money.

Udo623 reads

I understand that in the US a low cost provider is probably a disease carrier since she makes her money by volume fucking every dick that comes her way. However, this was Thailand where EVERYTHING was relatively cheap including decent hotels at $50 per night, $5-10 dinners and beer under a dollar. A taxi ride was about $5 US for a 10 minute trip.

The girls that I hobbied with in Thailand were not street walkers and worked out of decent GoGo bars and they insisted on safe sex. I would have gladly payed $100 per session if it meant safer providers in Thailand. However, I was not sure where to find them since the GoGo bars is where all the action was.

In short, it sounds like a more expensive provider is safer since she has fewer hobbyists and is more likely to take good care of her health?

I would gladly pay more money to enjoy safe sex with dfk, bbbj and daty knowing that the provider takes care of her health. I thought that I was going blind. Scary!

crazyshit640 reads

And why I would never hobby there.  That, and the fact that it is the transgender surgery capital of the world.

That's just me, though.  I don't want a ladyboy.

I can only speak for myself and for the girls I am really tight with.  

Yes.  I take incredibly good care of myself.  No, I do not see a ton of guys.  Almost every man I see is a repeat...I've seen him many times before.  Rarely do I see guys who are new to me, and when I do it is because they come off as polite, like they are probably a cool person, and someone I would enjoy spending time with.  Also, any guy who is new to me must have two references from verifiable providers.  I see one person in a day.  Based on the math alone, and the fact that I practice safe sex, you should see that I'm going to be much safer to see than a girl who sees a whole bunch of new guys, many in one day's time, and doesn't screen very well.

I plan to live to be very old.  Can't do that if I'm risky with my health.  I get regular checkups, floss daily...etc.  Mammogram in April, regular exercise, good sleep, proper nutrition.  I really doubt the girls in Thailand have the resources I do.  Girls working out of a go-go bar are basically streetwalkers.  They're all there for one reason.  How old do you think those girls are?  How old do you think they will live to be?  How often do they get to a proper physician, and do they even know if they have something?  Do you think they are happy, or is this something they do because they have no real options in life?  Correct me if you know more than I do.

When I see a gentleman, he is my date for that day, my one-n-only, and I don't even do this every day, so I probably average 5 appointments in a week.  That means you get the best I have to offer.  I'm clean, not over tired, and I've taken the time to prepare for you.  If we meet at my place, it's upscale.  I've taken the time to make it nice for you - candles, music, snacks for extended sessions.

There are some really great ladies out there.  It wouldn't be entirely fair of me to say a girl has to be $X amount of dollars to be quality because there are some who are $200/hour and fantastic, and others at $800 an hour who might as well be blow-up dolls.  But it is my opinion that if a lady sees more than one or two guys in a day, and she puts any effort into it she's either expending a lot of energy, or she's taking shortcuts somewhere = lower quality session for you.  If all you want is to get your dick wet, that's fine, but don't call me.  Some girls like being SW's and that's their choice.  Some guys like a quickie in-n-out, and that is their choice.  I am stating, very clearly, that you cannot get a real experience in that atmosphere.  

Also, do the math.  More partners = more risk.  

Thanks for hearing me out on this.  I appreciate that you listened and didn't jump all over me.  I wasn't trying to be mean and I hope you have some more fun hobbying here at home....when you are cleared completely.............

Posted By: Udo
I understand that in the US a low cost provider is probably a disease carrier since she makes her money by volume fucking every dick that comes her way. However, this was Thailand where EVERYTHING was relatively cheap including decent hotels at $50 per night, $5-10 dinners and beer under a dollar. A taxi ride was about $5 US for a 10 minute trip.

The girls that I hobbied with in Thailand were not street walkers and worked out of decent GoGo bars and they insisted on safe sex. I would have gladly payed $100 per session if it meant safer providers in Thailand. However, I was not sure where to find them since the GoGo bars is where all the action was.

In short, it sounds like a more expensive provider is safer since she has fewer hobbyists and is more likely to take good care of her health?

I would gladly pay more money to enjoy safe sex with dfk, bbbj and daty knowing that the provider takes care of her health. I thought that I was going blind. Scary!

Udo763 reads

You are correct. I really paid with suffering and a potential to lose vision permanently from Chlamydia while having "safe sex."

I am now fully cured. Going forward, I will gladly pay for a provider with less volume that takes care of her body. I want to indulge in really "worshipping a women's body and pleasing her" without worrying about a severe eye infection resulting.

You sound like a really nice person who just went on a bender.  I can't say I blame you.  They say Thai women are the most beautiful in the world.  ;)

I lived in Thailand when I was a little girl, so I have some strong feelings about it.

My mother used to tell me about large families who would sell one daughter because the fee would feed her family for a year.  That statement, in my mind, attempts to make noble a very base truth.  We always did butt heads on that one.  Girls are kidnapped, and addicted to drugs...it goes on and on and much of that information is debatable.

I like doing what I do.  It's helped me get control of my finances and I'm grateful for that.  Sex work can be freeing to the person, when it is my choice.  I also appreciate sex work as a stepping stone to a better life for myself.  That's speaking only for me.

:D

Best of luck to you!

pay a little more for pussy and see if you can hire girls who take a little better care of themselves? If you hire street walkers, here in US, you are likely to contract a disease or two, sooner or later.  Its a common knowledge that $300-400 girls take better care of themselves than street walkers - even though nothing is guaranteed 100%.

Now, I don't know if $25-50 is considered a high profile escort in Thailand or what.

Not trying to lecture you. I actually feel bad for you. If $25-50 pussy were available, I would fuck every day too.


-- Modified on 8/8/2012 9:12:07 PM

Udo595 reads

I spent my time in Pattaya, Thailand and the fairly expensive area of Phuket, Thailand. I picked up my providers from the decent GoGo clubs and would never pick up a street walker. The going rate is $25-50 per session gfe with shower before and after the session. I had an all nighter at the Hard Rock Hotel in Phuket, Thailand with a beautiful 25 year old GoGo dancer for about $300. She seemed super clean and classy and we had a wonderful night with each other.

My point is that I was not being cheap in Thailand. I would never sleep with stret walkers and always paid the going rate. Even so, I still contracted occular chlamydia that nearly blinded me.

I guess that I will use higher end providers in the US with lower volumes that are clean.

..I have lived in US all my adult life, and the only sex outside of US that I had was @ FKK club in Germany. So I wasn't aware. Thanks for clarifying, and Good Luck in future..

Udo529 reads

Basically everyone can get GFE with the low costs and that raises the volumes among providers making them more possilble of carrying and infecting STDS to other hobbyists.

are infinitely more frequently sexually transmitted than from hand to eye, eye to eye, semen to eye, and mascara to eye of partner contact. I hope I've made that clear to you so you can be educated away from your superstitions towards infectious disease facts.

With all due respect to the  well meaning people who have chimed in on this thread about paying for sex or "you get what you pay for,  or "it cost you more than money" or "this is why I see bodyrub girls LOL instead of going to Asian parlors" (it's wide spread in the WASP civie population or in all ethnic groups civie or hobby population not particularly endemic to Asians at all),  or that sex is cheap in Thailand,and looking at this thread, it's not that everyone can pay for sex, it's that asymptomatic Chlamydia is so wide spread in the US and world population and that less than half of the population in the US, and much less than that abroad gets tested and the large numbers of people who are asymptomatic the medical facts on Chlamydia Trachomatis are signficantly different in some respect as to "you get what you pay for" and "lower class or lower cost women" as has been inferred.  Chlamydia is widespread, and asymptomatic Chalmydia is just as prevelant on the upper east side of Manhatten (or name an expensiove neighborhood in a city) as it is on the  lower east side. Chlamydia is the most commonly transmitted STD, it's the most commonly reported STD in the U.S., and it's significantly underreported and under discovered.

Nationally, the annual screening rate increased from 25.3% in 2000 to 43.6% in 2006, then decreased slightly to 41.6% in 2007, and less abroad.

Chlamydia Trachomatis conjunctivitis (eye infection) can just as easily be caused by sexual  transmission as it can from direct hand to eye contact, contrary to the OP's perception of how he might have gotten it. I reported the first case known in the world of Chlamydia Trachomatis Endocarditis in the cardiology literature in a patient who was pregnant.  It infected her aortic and mitral  valves causing a ring abcess, then perforated the pericardium (the protective covering around the heart, and bled into her pericardium causing a cardiac tamponade, constricting her ventricles and causing congestive heart failure, and ultimately death.

Oral sex, giving or receiving can transmit Chlamydia, particularly when it is asymptomatic in the throats or nasopharynx of infected individuals.

Epidemiologic studies and the medical literature including the infectious disease literature estimate that Chlamydia is asymptomatic in 75% of women and 50% of men. In some studies in the infectious disease literature women are asymptomatic 90% of the time.  It doesn't just go away without treatment, so these individuals can spread it for years and years if untreated. About 30% of patients both sexes who have Chlamydia have concomiitant  GC or Gonnorrhea. Gonorrhea is predominantly asymptomatic in men or women with a painful discharge, sometimes yellowish sometimes not.

There are about 2.8 million cases of Chlamydia in all strata of the socioeconomic population in the U.S., and commonly I see physicians fail to treat their patient's partner for Chlamydia.  It is strongly recommended if you Dx Chlamydia, that you insist that the patient's partner come in for treatment.  That's much easier of course in a monogomous civie relationship, and can be impossible or even notfification of the partner or partners can be impossible or difficult in the hobby population or in the civie population not having monogomous sex obviously.

The CDC recommends testing once a year, not once a week, and in the hobby twice a year if you're asymptomatic makes sense.  If you have symptoms of a discharge from the penis or the cervix, abdominal lower quadrant pain, cervical pain, testicular epididymal area pain, pain or itching near the opening of the penis, rectal pain, rectal discharge or rectal bleeding,   then you should be seen and tested for the cause.  Obviously painless rectal bleeding can more commonly occur from hemorrhoids or an upper GI source or even a lower GI source.  Symptoms usually occur when they occur 1-3 weeks after exposure.

The most prevelant threats are spreading between  men and women, as well as men and men and women and women, and  sterility for women and it's the most common cause of sterility along with other forms of PID, and it causes infection in the tubes or ovaries, or tissue surrounding both of these that then spreads to the tubes or ovaries that can lead to sterility about 15% of cases.  Chlamydia can cause epididymitis in men, and usually it is easily diagnosed by touching the epidydimis although it's not the only bacteria that can do this.

Of course Chalmydia in the cervix can migrate up to the tubes and then to the ovaries. It's underreported because it's predominantly asymptomatic, and because of that thousands of individuals if not ten thousands of individuals who have it in the US don't test for it.

It would not make medical or economic sense to test for Chlamydia once a week as the OP suggests.  Additionally, many physicians treat discharges in both sexes empirically, and don't always test for Chlamydia and other organisms although they should.

http://www.cdc.gov/std/chlamydia/stdfact-chlamydia.htm

http://www.cdc.gov/std/treatment/2010/chlamydial-infections.htm

http://www.cdc.gov/std/chlamydia/

As to the eye, there are 3 types of Chlamydia and several subtypes Chlamydia Trachomatis or "trachoma" is the most common. It's the  most common STD and the leading cause of PID or pelvic inflammatory disease.  It is significantly underdiagonsed in the world and the US, because most of the time, it's asymptomatic.  I'm not sure how the OP actually got his eye infection, because you don't have to have direct contact with any type of Chlamydia into the eye area to get a Chlamydial infection in any organ where it can locate in your body. It can be transmitted via vaginal, anal or oral sex.  I understand the OP practiced "safe sex", meaning he used a condom, but that doesn't guarantee he couldn't have contracted Chalmydia from other means, and we don't know for certain that the hobby of the OP was the source of his Chlamydial eye infection.

Civies certainly carry and transmit Chlamydia, and in big numbers, and because of the simple numbers in the population spread it more than it is spread in the hobby.

My point there is that you more likely could have contracted Chlamydia through some other route than hand to eye, and from some other sexual encounter than the hobby in Thialand or the hobby any where else.

Individuals who have had Chlamyida and been treated are more prone to have it again, because of reinfection, not treatment failure.

From CDC Treatment  Recommendations:
http://www.cdc.gov/std/treatment/2010/chlamydial-infections.htm

"Chlamydia-infected women and men should be retested approximately 3 months after treatment, regardless of whether they believe that their sex partners were treated. If retesting at 3 months is not possible, clinicians should retest whenever persons next present for medical care in the 12 months following initial treatment.

Management of Sex Partners
Patients should be instructed to refer their sex partners for evaluation, testing, and treatment if they had sexual contact with the patient during the 60 days preceding onset of the patient’s symptoms or chlamydia diagnosis. Although the exposure intervals defined for the identification of at-risk sex partners are based on limited evaluation, the most recent sex partner should be evaluated and treated, even if the time of the last sexual contact was >60 days before symptom onset or diagnosis"


It can be transmitted via oral sex as well. It can be transmitted from man to man as well, and woman to woman.  As the CDC  article says, asymptomatic Chlamydia is very prevelant in teen aged girls who are sexually active because they seem to be more susceptible to infection, although all the reasons for this are still not known.

Chlamydia is wide spread asymptomatic in the throats/nasopharynx of men and women, and transmitted by oral sex with an infected partner.






-- Modified on 8/8/2012 9:58:00 PM

crazyshit595 reads

I guess I am having a hard time understanding how a high-volume provider isn't more high-risk than a very low-volume provider.

A woman who sees 10 guys a day doing FS in the Asian massage parlor charging $150 for FS is a lot more risky to be with than a high-end escort who sees one guy a day who pays $700 for the same service.

Or am I missing something?

Crazyshit--

In the sense that the overriding factor is that Chlamydia is as high as 90% asymptomatic in females and as high as 70% in males, the more sex of different kinds, including oral  the more  Chlamydia will  be transmitted particularly because in the US less than 50% of estimated cases get tested for and detected because they're asymptomatic according to ID literature and the CDC.

And sure you can  argue that poorer populations in say Thailand or many other Asian, European, or South  American or African countries have less access to testing in general, and less money to pay for the testing, and the testing isn't as sophisticated in some of their clinics/offices as you have access to in the US, or in Atlanta in your case in particular.

But I got the sense from reading the thread before I posted that people were blithly thinking that if they saw "higher class providers" or more expensive providers, or even "lower volume providers",  that they would be very unlikely not just a little  less likely to get Chlamydia, and that 's just not the case.   Or in other words if Udo hadn't had sex in Thialand at it's lower prices, it would be rare for him to get Chlamydia and that's just not accurate at all. It's really out there in the otherwise sophistcated affluent population in your state and in the US, civie or hobby as well in both sexes.

It's very undiagnosed, and it's certainly an epidemic, in a medically sophisticated country like the US, and that's a huge problem and it's a huge cause of sterility in the 15% of women who become sterile because the infection mechanically obstructs the ovaries, tubes, or adjacent tissue/ligaments surrounding the ovaries and tubes.  Gonnorrhea, (signficiantly less prevelant in this country than Chlamydia) is usually symptomatic and it will bring both sexes to see the doctor rather quickly. It's discharge is more or less painful in both sexes, and it frequently causes abdominal symptoms in both lower qaudrants in females.

One of the reasons Chlamydia is so wide spread, and this will  readily be apparent to you, is that partners don't get treated once it's diagnosed.  You can't force a woman or a man to get her partner in to see you or any other doctor.  You can  only try to educate why it's important.

And whether it's a civie situation or a hobby situation, the logistics of rounding up partners of a diagnosed individual and insuring they get the rather easy seven or eight treatment regimens for it are just impossible.

Recommended Regimens by CDC: (Dual Coverage of Chlamydia and  Gonorrhea)


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Azithromycin 1 g orally in a single dose

OR

Doxycycline 100 mg orally twice a day for 7 days


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Alternative Regimens

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Erythromycin base 500 mg orally four times a day for 7 days

OR

Erythromycin ethylsuccinate 800 mg orally four times a day for 7 days

OR

Levofloxacin 500 mg orally once daily for 7 days

OR

Ofloxacin 300 mg orally twice a day for 7 days




-- Modified on 8/8/2012 10:25:36 PM

GaGambler520 reads

I might have simply gone on a rant about how racist and bigoted, not to mention uninformed most white Americans are where it comes to Asia, AMPs and non Americans in general.

I have been correcting people about human trafficking, STD's and every thing else under the sun where it comes to asian providers until I am blue in the face. Thanks again for setting the record straight.

One thing I would like to add, prices in other countries reflect local standards of living. Just because a girl in Thailand seems dirt cheap to a "rich American" doesn't mean that she is able to find a dozen white guys to fuck every day, and to the locals her price is comparable to the $3-400  that we pay here. The same goes in Latin America where $100 for GFE is the norm. The world is a big place, not everybody bases their standards on what is "normal" in the US.

crazyshit430 reads

I think you are making a very big assumption that everyone who is replying here or reading this is a white American.

I am simply making the commentary about southeast Asia and specifically Thailand, where it is very well-documented that men go there for the easily and readily available, cheap sex.

No one is talking about human trafficking here.  I don't know where you get off on a rant about that.  I am simply saying that when you offer sexual services at a rate which is so absolutely low that many vacationers and visitors can easily afford, you are going to have high-volume.  It's really that simple.  That's not a race thing.  That's certainly not a human trafficking thing.  That's a "it's cheap, and everyone can afford it, and, by the way, people come to Thailand for the cheap P4P sex" thing.

Thailand is known as a mecca for cheap P4P sex.  Men go there specifically for that.  I know many people who go there and have gone there.  I know many people who have lived there.  The points I bring up about the absolute low rate for sex is true.  It's not just the locals there who are the clients of the providers there.

GaGambler536 reads

and any conversation having to do with AMP's invariably involves allegations of human trafficking, and avoiding AMPs altogether, usually by the bleeding heart types who don't have a clue about AMPs and the ladies that work for them.

I will also point out that I was not responding to you, nor was I citing anything you said here.

and no shit, people go to Thailand for sex, they also go to Vietnam, Singapore, Costa Rica, Panama and a whole host of other countries. Truth is, I am in Costa Rica this very moment and I didn't come here for the volcanoes. lol I can speak for experience, just because it's cheap by American standards and just because hordes of Americans come here for the cheap P4P, not all these bar girls are high volume. During tough economic times some of them are lucky to land a single client a day. Many of the less attractive ones don't even manage that.

It's logical to think that low prices always leads to high volume. It's wrong, but is logical.

FWIW I have been at this for 38 years, I have fucked thousands of different women in dozens of countries, the worst thing I ever picked up was a case of the crabs from a SW back in the early 80's. I am perfectly cognizant that I could catch something today, but the risk, while real, is not as high as many make it out to be That said, we should all do this with our eyes wide open and not with our heads buried in the sand.

Legsman321534 reads

regular testing than low end providers. $200+ for STD test may be too expensive for low end providers on BP. It doesn't mean that all high end providers will actually do it, but at least they are more likely to have the mean. As for the "sophisticated affluent population", I think they may have their blinders on so they feel there's no need for testing. Of course, this is just my conjecture so I have no problem if anyone disagrees with it.

crazyshit393 reads

I have another comment about this in another thread, where a provider seems to go on the offensive against my experience that STD testing just isn't as prevalent as many say it is (at least, not here in NYC, where there are many insured people).  It's just been my experience that if you don't have health insurance, you aren't likely to go to the doctor unless you are really in bad shape.  And MANY providers don't have health insurance.

That isn't focusing on Backpage-advertising escorts in the low end.  That's looking at providers in general, many of whom end up being escorts as a sort of "last resort" because there aren't any other career choices for many that pay as much as this does.  That's not at all a rip on escorts.  Let me be clear again:  That's not at all a rip on escorts.  It's just been my experience that most escorts and many people in general in NYC don't have health insurance, and so the only real option for getting STD testing is to go to free clinics.  Or, I guess, these days, you can buy a home testing kit at the pharmacy.

Now...do you providers get tested?  I'm sure most do.  Do they do it several times a year?  I'm not sure about that one, and certainly wouldn't mortgage a house on that belief.

Again, I cannot speak for everyone, and certainly AM NOT.  I am only speaking about my experiences, and the whole topic of STD testing is a touchy one when you bring it up.  I'm talking about providers I have gotten to know, and over time sharing personal details with each other.

My guess would be that most people are tested annually for STDs, but probably not several times a year or every few months.

And the high-end providers, in my opinion, are less likely to have STDs or diseases, in large part because of their clientele, who have life insurance plans and who must get tested regularly in order to maintain those policies.  Magic Johnson, if I recall, found out he was HIV+ from a routine exam mandated by his insurance.

GaGambler612 reads

I doubt that Magic was trolling Back Page or the local AMPs for pussy, and we can see how much good that did him.

You have also bought into the fantasy that "high end" providers are necessarily low volume. The truth is, you have no idea how many guys these girls are fucking. The difference between a girl that charges $400 hr and one the charges $200 is one is getting paid twice as much, For every girl for charges more money in order to see less guys for the SAME money, there are a dozen who see the same number of guys, or more, in order to make TWICE the money.

I guess marketing pays, because the number of guys who think they are getting something more exclusive just because they are paying more is staggering.

Cmon guys, wake the fuck up. There are risks that go along with fucking strange women. calling it a "hobby" and sugarcoating it doesn't change a fucking thing. From what I can tell from the OP, he did nothing wrong, he took the normal precautions, yet he rolled snake eyes. That's the risk you take. That's the risk we all take. Again, look at Magic, all his wealth and high priced health insurance did not prevent him from contracting HIV,

Just as an example, how many $400 hr girls have you seen that openly state that they need to see AT LEAST three guys a day, when touring, just to make expenses? Do you really think that they tour JUST to make expenses? A $400 hr provider that want to make $200,000 a year is going to fuck just as many guys as a $200 hr girl is to make $100,000. and lets face it, after expenses a couple of hundred grand is hardly a fortune, considering the rather short career, and all the bullshit that goes along with being a prostitute.

crazyshit467 reads

We really don't know.  That much is true.

As far as touring providers, they set that number based on economics.  One or two multi-hour dates covers the cost of the hotel and the flight.  

Just as we may be too presumptuous or optimistic...you may be too pessimistic.

Have a good day.

HookerCops455 reads

I watched an interview with Magic. He liked the "high end" ladies, the streetwalkers, ladies at the club ... basically anything with 2 tits, a hole, and a heartbeat. There's no way of knowing who he got HIV from.

As for STD testing in the hobby, its basically useless as a tool for prevention. Unless your partner has been abstinent for at least 6 months prior to the test, and with nobody else since, then that test was obsolete the moment it was taken. That basically includes everyone around here.

Now, I'm not advocating you shouldn't get tested. I go twice a year for my check-ups. However, its a matter of my own personal health and safety.

GaGambler485 reads

and forgive me for not mentioning you by name in my post to lungman "the new badass"  yesterday. You certainly deserve a spot in the "assholes worthy of mention" category.

and for the record I agree with you completely about testing  being a rather worthless tool of prevention, especially where it comes to HIV. I have heard the incubation period can even be longer than six months. In a typical six months I am probably with at least 75 different women, and that IF I don't take any hobby vacations. A very big IF considering I am on my second hobby vacation in the last two weeks. lol

are still screwed. Protect yourself to a degree you feel safe, and let others fk themselves if they want to lol. I know I won't go near a guy who seeks bbfs providers on a regular basis, but then again he could trick me too.

HookerCops598 reads

... for a few years now. I would love to hear some other recommendations. I've been thinking of DR next time.

GaGambler545 reads

If you like CR, you might want to try Panama, or even better Colombia.

I am thinking that you like your chocolate a bit on the dark side. If so, you should love the DR, or maybe try Cali Colombia.

I prefer my chocolate a bit lighter, so I go for the paisas of Medellin and the rest of Northern Colombia.

I don't know if you speak Spanish, but if not Panama is a lot easier to get around than Colombia, but truth be told my Spanish sucks and I have no problems.

Oh, and if you've been going to the east coast of CR, try the Pacific side some time. Jaco is the party spot, as a matter of fact, I plan on heading there in the next couple of hours. The best place there is the Co Cal casino. It's replaced the Beatle Bar as the place to go for chicas.

Personally, I get STD tested across the board regularly.  When I did porn, it was every month, regardless.  Currently, I did a test before I came back from retirement, and another one about 3 weeks ago.  

You do pay my rate for a reason.  I am smart, current on my information, responsible, and I care about both our health.  I absolutely do charge more so that I can see less men.  YOU BET I DO.

Already stated that dollars do not necessarily equal smarts.  I've seen a lot of girls who are very pretty and charge a ton but they are air heads.  Likewise, you can have lower-end girls who are savvy.  I am absolutely stating that we American women have a lot more options than your average Thai girl.  

Rightie-oh?

Also, please take yourself off the market for at least a year.  You need to get tested for HIV and you can't even bother until - what? - 6 weeks to 3 months after initial exposure?  Then, get tested monthly for at least a year.  PLEASE.  You are a walking health risk for all of us on this board.

xo

..how do we hobbyists find the women like her with her attitude?

Legsman321545 reads

1. BBBJ & DATY are not safe sex practice. Damn, what a kill joy.
2. It's more likely to catch STD in civilian sexual encounters than hobby encounters. I am assuming more providers get themselves tested regularly and civilians don't.
3. Everybody need to get tested to reduce the spread of STD so we all can continue to enjoy what we do.

Am I wrong? Did I miss anything?

crazyshit605 reads

1.  BBBJ and DATY are not without risks, but the risks are considerably less than BBFS.

2.  I don't know if you are more likely to catch STDs in civvie vs. provider encounters.  Depends on the provider and the civvie in question.  I do know that unless you are dealing with a really high-risk group that doesn't use protection and who uses drugs intravenously, the incidence of STDs in NYC (where I live) is falrly low.

3.  Everyone should get tested regularly for STDs.  STDs aren't the death sentence they once were, and it is purely irresponsible to spread things out of ignorance.

1) Nothing sexual is 100% immune from STDs, and of course monogamous heterosexual partners for considerable lengths of time and no lesions have the least risks. Abstinence would be the only completely safe solution, and this is TER aka a place where ideas about sex are exchanged 24X7.

2) BBBJ & DATY are infinitely safer than the dangerous practices at the other end of the spectrum unprotected anal sex and unprotected vaginal sex. CBJ's are safer than BBBJ and BBBJCIM.

CDC regards any oral sex as risky; and for that matter so is kissing but the vast majority of civie or hobby practice will include DFK, BBBJ, DATY. Since the vast majority will practice these, doing them as safely as possible is your best bet.

You can transmit a variety of STDs via DATY or BBBJ including Hepatitis C,  but being tested per CDC guidelines (disease free), the lack of lesions for male and female, and not causing micro cuts by brushing teeth and gums for two hours prior to sex (or even using a mouth antiseptic to clean your breath or mints that some of the providers promote) minimizes your chances considerably of an STD and millions of people do enjoy those and stay safe. A dental dam would make things safer, but it's cumbersxome and awkward and people simply aren't going to use it.

Even mouth antiseptics can cause micro mini abrasisons, yet the vast majority of people in the hobby use them as do the vast majority of providers  have them available. Theoretically they could aid viral transmission by breaking down the oral mucosa, but on the other hand the vast majority of STDs that could be transmitted are bacterial and those are lessened by antiseptics.  Hepatitis B and C are viral of course, as is HIV.

http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/resources/factsheets/oralsex.htm

http://www.sfcityclinic.org/stdbasics/stdchart.asp

http://www.aafp.org/afp/2007/0215/p560.html

Ways to Minimize Risks of Oral Sex
http://suite101.com/article/oral-sex-and-hiv-a59055

I went around a month ago and will be going back in December. The bar girls are high volume and do not take as good care of themselves as others. I've met a few very beautiful and sexy escorts that are reasonable in price and they are much lower volume. Safety is key over there and I find that the escorts are a much safer bet (and a lot better).

Glad to hear about that and thanks for the warning too. Sorry you had such issues.

Posted By: Udo
I arrived home from a two week vacation in Thailand and developed a severe eye infection the next day. My vision was great reduced as my eye was nearly shut, cherry red and dripping yellow pus. My general doctor told me it was the worst eye he ever saw in his life.

Ultimately, I went to the opthalmologist for treatment and the infection was found to be Chlamydia Trachoma. I suffered badly for about two weeks and was not able to drive a car or work. The infection was finally eliminated by a procedure where my eyelids were inverted and scraped of infected tissue while I took two consecutive doses of Azithromycin (1 gram per day).

I was very active as a hobbyist in Thailand since the cost per session was very cheap ($25-$50 US dollars) for GFE. I did practice safe sex for every session on this trip. However, I had daty, dfk and bbbj for every session.

The scary thing is that my doctor told me that Chlamydia can be easily transmitted to the eye by just touching a woman's infected genitals and then accidentally rubbing your eyes afterward without first disinfecting your hands. Scary thought since you can have "safe sex" and still develop a severe and possibly blinding eye infection.

Everyone is afraid of AIDS. However, AIDS is easily prevented with safe sex. How common is Chlamydia among US providers? Do providers get tested weekly for disease?

I am just pretty scared to partake in the hobby since "safe sex" can still get you sick. Anyone have any ideas?

Udo466 reads

I enjoy the GoGo bars since it's nice to see up to 100 girls to pick from and share a drink with before going on the date.

I guess that I should just hobby at the "Devil's Den" in Pattaya, Thailand. They advertise that the providers are checked weekly for STDs such as HIV and Chlamydia. Their cost is a little higher and two or three girl sessions are the normal date.

However, a higher cost is often a cleaner provider. I know of some "dirt cheap providers" working out of Hotel Monito's in Tijuana, Mexico. They provide bbbjcim for $10. The deal breaker for me is that they look "sick" and are most likely IV drug users or "Ice" addicts. I would be afraid to even shake one of these provider's hands.

In Tijuana, I use mostly escorts where you can have an overnight date for $300. Not a cheap date in Tijuana. However, it's worth the safety of having a clean provider that will not infect you with an STD.

of the importance of cleanliness.

Washing your hands frequently no matter what you do or where you are is a great way to avoid infectious diseases.

I do so many times a day and find I have far fewer health problems as a result.

So sorry for your painful and harrowing ordeal.

Listen up what ever race you are..females and males even tranny's who charge below the 100.00 mark are EXTREMELY high risk for STD!! What is it with WHITE  males putting their mouth's on strange females Vagina's for her pleasure only! You guys are the "stupid's" similar to the Gay white males from the 1980's. During the AIDS epidemic having anal sex,oral sex,swallowing sperm and blowing off condom's when the smart gay males,bi-sexual's and husbands who were closeted "Fags". Chose condom's over the fact that too many partner's and not practicing HYGIENE was key to reducing odd's!!!! First off all always use CONDOM"S white people,BLack people and especially Latino's. Second shower before and after sexual activity. Use Hot water and Dial soap in area's were Bacteria,virus's can fester. When I was in high school there was a beautiful and popular white girl who shared her lip gloss with six other females of different races. Pretty soon everyone ended up with Cold sores  on the side of their lips. One of the things I observe in  this business is that 60% of white men do NOT value their lives. Swallowing vaginal and penile fluids regardless of being Gay,Straight or Bi-sexual...When you have sex with CHEAP you make yourself VICTIM or Bulls eye target to being exposed to disease. Regardless if it's a common street Hooker,..or poor land tramp..that charges 10 rupees!

You touched her pussy and then you touched your eye.
Don't do that.

Don't touch your eyes until you wash your hands after sex.
I wash my hands before I leave the apartment. I also keep hand sanitizer in the car to use before I drive home in case I forget.

It doesn't matter if you're having sex with a $30 Thai hooker or a $3000 American Escort or a college girlfriend. Chlamydia is all over the US. It's common in US colleges. It's common in civvies in bars in the US. It's the commonest STD in the US. About 3% of US women between 20 and 24 are infected at any given time (from the CDC). Most of them don't know they have it.

Just keep your frikking fingers out of your eyes after sex.

Udo398 reads

Point well taken. I touched a provider's pussy and then rubbed my eye. This was enough to infect my eye with her chlamydia.

I might wear lab safety glasses to prevent infection from a provider the next time that I hobby. They make the sports type now that will not fall off while fucking.

crazyshit611 reads

It is still a risk game and you can't classify them as "safe," in my opinion.

"Safe" to me means that I would at least CONSIDER knowingly perform the act on a partner I knew or highly suspected to be infected.  If I suspected a girl was infected, I would CONSIDER fucking her with a condom.  I would never eat her pussy, or let her suck me.

But that's just me.

Posted By: Udo
I arrived home from a two week vacation in Thailand and developed a severe eye infection the next day. My vision was great reduced as my eye was nearly shut, cherry red and dripping yellow pus. My general doctor told me it was the worst eye he ever saw in his life.

Ultimately, I went to the opthalmologist for treatment and the infection was found to be Chlamydia Trachoma. I suffered badly for about two weeks and was not able to drive a car or work. The infection was finally eliminated by a procedure where my eyelids were inverted and scraped of infected tissue while I took two consecutive doses of Azithromycin (1 gram per day).

I was very active as a hobbyist in Thailand since the cost per session was very cheap ($25-$50 US dollars) for GFE. I did practice safe sex for every session on this trip. However, I had daty, dfk and bbbj for every session.

The scary thing is that my doctor told me that Chlamydia can be easily transmitted to the eye by just touching a woman's infected genitals and then accidentally rubbing your eyes afterward without first disinfecting your hands. Scary thought since you can have "safe sex" and still develop a severe and possibly blinding eye infection.

Everyone is afraid of AIDS. However, AIDS is easily prevented with safe sex. How common is Chlamydia among US providers? Do providers get tested weekly for disease?

I am just pretty scared to partake in the hobby since "safe sex" can still get you sick. Anyone have any ideas?
Safe sex is a completely bogus concept!!!

Condoms provide no reduction in the transmission of the human papilloma virus (HPV) or Trichomonas vaginalis.

Syphilis transmission is reduced 29% for typical use. It is reduced 50 to 71% when condoms are used correctly 100% of the time.

Gonorrhea and Chlamydia transmission is reduced by approximately 50% even when condoms are used 100% of the time.

Condoms only reduce the likelihood of exposure, they do not prevent exposure.


So this insane idea that your "Safe" because you and your provider use condoms is lunacy.

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