Legal Corner

Re:Client Names in the "Black Book" - Please Help Lawyers
Alpha-Dog 39338 reads
posted

"Can LE use this information to go after the clients to make arrests for solicitation?"

Probably not to make arrests, because a name in a book on its own is not enough evidence to make an arrest.  But they might use it as a basis for opening an investigation into the client, putting the client under surveillance etc., that is IF they had the time and the resources.

The only reason why this is not happening n a more regular basis is simply that LE does not have the resources to go after all these people.

Basically everyone in this hobby is wise to be ultra-careful.

sincerely
Alpha-Dog

Riggo40301 reads

Let's say a provider is pinched by LE and her book of clients or computer records is conviscated. Can LE use this information to go after the clients to make arrests for solicitation? Can the client list be published in the newspaper? What should the client do if his name appears on the client list and he is contacted by LE. Any advice from lawyers would be appreciated.

TheLawyer37675 reads

To go after the person listed in the book, LE would need corroborating evidence that would strenghten or supplement the evidence (the listing).  Standing alone the names would not be very much for them to go on. Legally, LE would need to show that the names were indeed involved in some illegal activity and with out corroboration from another source it would be a stretch.

As far a talking to LE, remember: always keep your mouth shut, you don't ever really know what they want from you and they are trained to get the answers they want. Even if you are in a room with them while they ask you questions, you rarely see what the write down for your answers and they could be putting anything down.  So, its always best not to talk to any LE

The Law Doctor37010 reads

Good advice lawyer..Keeping one's mouth shut is difficult in a situation such as this..It is better to indicate if called.." I know nothing of this" and no more..

You say:

"To go after the person listed in the book, LE would need corroborating evidence that would strenghten or supplement the evidence (the listing)."  ... LE would need to show that the names were indeed involved in some illegal activity and with out corroboration from another source it would be a stretch."

Are you implying that there is any way that they COULD get corroboration from another source and make an arrest??  What kind of evidence could they possibly use without catching us first hand in the act?

This concerns me.

You also didn't answer this:
"Can the client list be published in the newspaper?"



-- Modified on 6/6/2002 6:27:45 PM

Imaginative, sinister prosecutors and detectives can come up with circumstantial evidence that will always surprise and dismay you, and ruin your life if they feel like it.
Phone logs. E-mails. Photos from surveillance. License plates in photos. Testimony from the nosy neighbors.
Business records are often admissible although hearsay, and they just need a little bit of foundation to show that the blackbook is a business record.
Patterns of practice, custom, habit.
Unanticipated informants and witnesses.
Detectives are almost professionals at proving up cases and framing up suspects.
Hobbyists are usually totally naive amateurs.
Don't kid yourself. Be extra careful.
I taught federal evidence for a time, and hate to tell you that almost anything can get into evidence with a creative prosecutor and a right wing judge. Prosecuting prostitution related activity is easy, but low priority.
Participating in the hooby has its risks.

-- Modified on 6/6/2002 7:12:29 PM

I second TheLawyer's analysis.  But, hobbyists must keep in mind there are three thresholds of legal jeopardy in the hobby.

The most serious jepoardy is a conviction for soliciting, or for some other more serious violation (inducing a minor, inducing a person across state lines, etc.)  Generally, if you are arrested, you'll be given the option of pleading out quicky and discreetly.  If you have the resources get your own lawyer to work with you before you do anything.  Do not accept any plea, nor make any court appearance without your own lawyer.  Get the best lawyer you can afford.  The system wants you to give up and plead guilty.  Sometimes if you're a little drag on the system, you can avoid the worst consequences.

The second threshold is arrest.  Intelligent and discreet hobbyists can generally avoid arrest by avoiding street.  If you happen to be at an incall when a raid occurs, be quiet, obey all the instructions of the officers, and there is a very high likelihood that they'll send you on your way.  Cops on raids want to intimidate you, so be intimidated.  In order to arrest you, at least in Massachusetts, a police officer must find you in the house, or in the act of soliciting.  Sting operations to fight streetwalking occur frequently in the warmer weather months.  

As far as arrest based on the records of an agency.  It would be significant work for police to reach the quantum of evidence necessary to support probable cause for an arrest warrant.  Not impossible, but a lot of work that they really don't want to do. So, the answer is it could happen, and if the house or agency has seriously irritated the police, or some other serious crime, like a homicide, related to the agency is involved, then all people referred to in records and phone logs, etc are likely to be interviewed, and maybe arrested.

The lowest threshold is public disclosure. When an agency is busted, the records and computers are seized.  The police can make them public, but they are reluctant to do so because the risks are high.  If the police got it wrong, or someone picked your name as an alias, then you'd have a case of defamation.  

Depending on your personal circumstances, disclosure can be a very serious consequence.  So, be discreet.  Be smart.  Have a good time, but don't be stupid.

Alpha-Dog39339 reads

"Can LE use this information to go after the clients to make arrests for solicitation?"

Probably not to make arrests, because a name in a book on its own is not enough evidence to make an arrest.  But they might use it as a basis for opening an investigation into the client, putting the client under surveillance etc., that is IF they had the time and the resources.

The only reason why this is not happening n a more regular basis is simply that LE does not have the resources to go after all these people.

Basically everyone in this hobby is wise to be ultra-careful.

sincerely
Alpha-Dog

Since it was asked and not answered (the lawyers went for the more important legal question), I should just add that yes, sometimes names of client lists do get in the press. A reporter is under NO obligation to keep that out, and in one case in particular, in Frederick, Md., where public officials were involved, it was the names IN the black book that became the story more than the arrests and prosecution.
So let's all be very careful out there.

bbblonde31975 reads

My client book was confiscated from a provider friend when she
was arrested.  I didn't know that she even had it.  I think she
snagged it to call my clients or it could have been unintentional.  I found out about it when a client told me
that he had been contacted by the SDPD and asked if he would
"cooperate" in an investigation of me.  (This was about
5 years ago.)  Evidently, when my friend was busted and they
found my book, she told them it was mine.  (I remember, at
that time, hearing through the grapevine, that she thought
that I had something to do with setting her up.- I had nothing
to do with it.) The client whom the police contacted told them
that he would cooperate with them.  He also said that he was
never again contacted.  I was surprized to hear what he had
to say.  Mostly because he told me this about a year or so
after this all happened.  That was the first I had heard about
it.  Surprized that he was honest enough to tell me he agreed
to cooperate.  I didn't blame him, though.  He was a teacher
and was married.  He said he thought I would have heard about it
from other clients who were contacted also.  He is the only person who ever mentioned that to me.  Maybe they only contacted
him?  Maybe they got too busy with other things to pursue it?
Maybe they did background checks and he was the most likely
person willing to cooperate?  Maybe they contacted others and
scared them away?  Who knows?  Not me.  I have never been arrested. I have been set up.  Thank god for my intuition.

What LE does in this matter is they use the book of info and they fuck with the clients, they use the clients, to set you up again, because then it's a second strike against you, especially if your already on probation, then it's a violation and for that you can do some jail time.  Do not, I repeat do not go back to anyone you know.

Just go let things cool down and get a regular job and lying on your application about being busted, if you tell the truth you will be treated badly, it might happen anyway, but...

It is the worst thing you can do, is to go back to working as a call girl.  Remember don't under estimate the cops, they know you got busted, it is their job to get you again and hurt you more, they will do it.  They never forget you!  Especially in OC.   I have had the cops mess with me crossing states but never got me.

I am retired so I have no problem sharing the truth...

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