Tijuana

Re: Human trafficking is rare in TJ
Bic54 57 Reviews 809 reads
posted

A few of the providers who frequently post in the San Diego section need to read this.  I couldn't figure out if they were trying to prevent clients from hobbying in TJ or if they actually believed what they wrote (refer to the threads about TJ in the San Diego section).  

Anyway, I couldn't agree more.
Posted By: Burt2010
Does Human Trafficking exist?  Absolutely!  
   
 Is Human Trafficking the problem crusaders and the media say it is?  Absolutely not!  
   
 Very few murders are actually serial killers.  Just as very few prostitutes are actually the victims of human trafficking (once called white slavery), meaning that somebody is actually and literally forcing them to prostitute themselves.  
   
 What do you think a woman who has been arrested for prostitution, exposed as a prostitute by the media, etc. is going to say?  
 • I love the vida loca and the only way I can find to have the time and money to party hardy is by being a prostitute.    
 • I hated school, dropped out, and this is all I can do to make big bucks.  
 • I can't stand being cooped up at home with my kids.  I'd rather work as a prostitute and send money to my mom, aunt, sister, etc. to care for my kids than be stuck at home.  
 • I am a shopoholic and prostitution is the only way I can get enough money to shop till I drop.  
 • I love to get high.  Prostitution is the only way I can get enough money to get as high as I want whenever I want.  
 • Somebody made me do it.  
   
 Speaking as a Political Scientist this is a classic example of when not to use interviews, questionnaires, etc. to find the truth.  Elsewhere I've posted about how to use objective measurement techniques--like counting condom wrappers in putas's hotels to see if sex education really works--because people tell interviewers what they think they want to hear.  And that goes triple when the answer impacts the subjects life, such as determining if a prostitute gets probation or goes to jail, gets deported or amnesty, etc.  
   
 Do NOT under estimate the street smarts of prostitutes, including those who don't speak the language and/or lack formal education.  Their grapevine is very informative.  Prostitutes know extremely well what you want to hear and what is the best thing to say when they are between a rock and a hard place.  
   
 After years of failing to get people to be morally outraged about prostitution the anti-prostitution crusaders have come up with a new tactics.   They are now labeling prostitutes as the victims of human trafficking.    
   
 Since few people know much about prostitution their tacit is working.  But the real truth is almost all women prostituting themselves--even to support a drug habit--are the victims of her own choices, not of Human Trafficking.  
   
 You can't have it both ways:  women are either victims or responsible for their choices.  If, for example, a prostitute with a drug habit is not the victim of her own choices then it is time to reverse feminist gains by returning to the times when women were viewed as being incompetent to mange their affairs, own property, have a job, etc. and thus had to  
 have a male guardian.    
   
 Ever wonder why the police can't get prostitutes to testify against their pimp?  (Hint:  It is not because, after being offered placement is a domestic violence shelter, they are afraid of the pimp.)  Ever wonder why prostitutes call their pimp my old man, boyfriend, etc?  Why do drug addicted prostitutes bail out of a rehab program the moment they get the chance to go back to their old life.  Etc.  The answer is as plain as the nose on your face:  she WANTS to be a prostitute.  For some it is for the money, for others it is for the drugs, for others it is because they crave having men lust after them, and the list goes on.  But, again, the common denominator is:  she wants to be a prostitute.  
   
 Once more:  Human Trafficking is very rare.  Rather it is the current tacit being used to criminalize patronizing a prostitute.  
 

How many of the "low cost" Tijuana providers are working because they want to? Are they forced against their will by pimps or cartel bullies because prostitution is legal? If so, the girl gets very little of what is paid for service.  

Sex slavery is nothing new to this country. How much occurs in Mexico? With as much government corruption there I am sure the business of sex slavery prospers much more than here. I'm sure there are a lot of legit providers working because they like the work or just need the money. But I can't help but wonder how many may actually be slaves. Think about that next time you go down there for some "Cheap" fun.

While I'm on the subject of sex slavery - Think about that the next time you go to an asian massage parlor. The turnover rate for girls in those places is high for a reason and it's not because the service is subpar. The girls get moved around so much because the pimps want to keep fresh faces in the shops and often against the will of the ladies. Think about what you may be helping to finance whenever you do business in these places.

It is true that many of the low cost or street girls make no money at all.  They pay pimps.  I am not sure that they are forced into as much as they are manipulated.  

The Tijuana escort business seems to be better for the chicas as they keep most of the money and are free to change to different agencies and work when they want.

I have not doubt there had been cases of slavery. However, it may seem mostly to be a media driven propaganda in the cases of girls at the US and TJ. I talked to some of them here in the US parlors. They just laughed. They are doing it because it is the best way to make good money fast. Judging from the chicas in TJ, they don't have to work if they don't want to. From what I can see, life is hard in Mexico. Opportunity to make a living is scarce. The lure of making thousands of dollars a week is too much for a pretty girl. That's all there is to it.

SodaPop1037 reads

I'm sure some women are forced to have sex for money, but the ladies that work in the agencies that advertise here are free to come and go as they wish.  The same is true for ladies in the bars that I know and I know several.  I speak Spanish and each girl says this is a job.  There are rules when they are available, but the ladies can choose to quit, and many do, at any time.  Here is what I know about the bar girls I met.

Ladies apply to work in the bars (i.e., HK, Adelitas, Tropical).  No one is forced, but all ladies are given hours that they must be in the bar (same is true at any job though, right?).  The bar get a cut of everything earned by the lady.  For example, a drink cost the customer $7.00 US and the bar get 5.00 the lady gets $2.00.  The bar also get a portion of the money when a customer takes a lady to hotel upstairs.  I remember that was around $20 and the girl keeps the rest. One exception, a lady keeps ALL her tips.

Street ladies around the bars, the ones that I know, are mostly single mothers trying to make a living.  They don't have to share with the bar so they charge much less.  With them it is strictly bang and go. There is usually little or no conversation between the lady and the client.  I actually built somewhat of a relationship with one young lady.  We have met for lunch several times.

Not sure what type of slavery you are referring to.  Also, where did you get this information?  I am a little skeptical.  Of course, many people who want to shut down these businesses may call it sex slavery, but I think these ladies earn a wage that supports their family in a way that a traditional job cannot

A bar cannot talk anything for the chicas to go to the hotel.  I have heard of one bar that tries but it is illegal.

Michael Hemmingson's ethnographic study, Zona Norte: The Post-Structural Body of Erotic Dancers and Sex Workers in Tijuana, San Diego, and Los Angeles, found that most, if not all, of these girls lie about their age (often by using false documents in Tijuana to even obtain a health card) saying they are 19-22.  That these sex workers are voluntarily engaged in what is often termed survival sex.  (They are not being forced physically or physiologically to prostituted themselves, rather it is the way these females, who usually lack job skills and an education, have chosen to support themselves.)  The study also found much of human trafficking claims are exaggerated by organizations with political, moral, and religious agendas.

His finding are things experienced Tijuana hobbyists have known for years.  What used to be called "white slavery" is very rare in Tijuana.

--burt/political scientist and armchair historian

Does Human Trafficking exist?  Absolutely!

Is Human Trafficking the problem crusaders and the media say it is?  Absolutely not!

Very few murders are actually serial killers.  Just as very few prostitutes are actually the victims of human trafficking (once called white slavery), meaning that somebody is actually and literally forcing them to prostitute themselves.

What do you think a woman who has been arrested for prostitution, exposed as a prostitute by the media, etc. is going to say?
• I love the vida loca and the only way I can find to have the time and money to party hardy is by being a prostitute.  
• I hated school, dropped out, and this is all I can do to make big bucks.
• I can't stand being cooped up at home with my kids.  I'd rather work as a prostitute and send money to my mom, aunt, sister, etc. to care for my kids than be stuck at home.
• I am a shopoholic and prostitution is the only way I can get enough money to shop till I drop.
• I love to get high.  Prostitution is the only way I can get enough money to get as high as I want whenever I want.
• Somebody made me do it.

Speaking as a Political Scientist this is a classic example of when not to use interviews, questionnaires, etc. to find the truth.  Elsewhere I've posted about how to use objective measurement techniques--like counting condom wrappers in putas's hotels to see if sex education really works--because people tell interviewers what they think they want to hear.  And that goes triple when the answer impacts the subjects life, such as determining if a prostitute gets probation or goes to jail, gets deported or amnesty, etc.

Do NOT under estimate the street smarts of prostitutes, including those who don't speak the language and/or lack formal education.  Their grapevine is very informative.  Prostitutes know extremely well what you want to hear and what is the best thing to say when they are between a rock and a hard place.

After years of failing to get people to be morally outraged about prostitution the anti-prostitution crusaders have come up with a new tactics.   They are now labeling prostitutes as the victims of human trafficking.  

Since few people know much about prostitution their tacit is working.  But the real truth is almost all women prostituting themselves--even to support a drug habit--are the victims of her own choices, not of Human Trafficking.  

You can't have it both ways:  women are either victims or responsible for their choices.  If, for example, a prostitute with a drug habit is not the victim of her own choices then it is time to reverse feminist gains by returning to the times when women were viewed as being incompetent to mange their affairs, own property, have a job, etc. and thus had to  
have a male guardian.  

Ever wonder why the police can't get prostitutes to testify against their pimp?  (Hint:  It is not because, after being offered placement is a domestic violence shelter, they are afraid of the pimp.)  Ever wonder why prostitutes call their pimp my old man, boyfriend, etc?  Why do drug addicted prostitutes bail out of a rehab program the moment they get the chance to go back to their old life.  Etc.  The answer is as plain as the nose on your face:  she WANTS to be a prostitute.  For some it is for the money, for others it is for the drugs, for others it is because they crave having men lust after them, and the list goes on.  But, again, the common denominator is:  she wants to be a prostitute.

Once more:  Human Trafficking is very rare.  Rather it is the current tacit being used to criminalize patronizing a prostitute

A few of the providers who frequently post in the San Diego section need to read this.  I couldn't figure out if they were trying to prevent clients from hobbying in TJ or if they actually believed what they wrote (refer to the threads about TJ in the San Diego section).  

Anyway, I couldn't agree more.

Posted By: Burt2010
Does Human Trafficking exist?  Absolutely!  
   
 Is Human Trafficking the problem crusaders and the media say it is?  Absolutely not!  
   
 Very few murders are actually serial killers.  Just as very few prostitutes are actually the victims of human trafficking (once called white slavery), meaning that somebody is actually and literally forcing them to prostitute themselves.  
   
 What do you think a woman who has been arrested for prostitution, exposed as a prostitute by the media, etc. is going to say?  
 • I love the vida loca and the only way I can find to have the time and money to party hardy is by being a prostitute.    
 • I hated school, dropped out, and this is all I can do to make big bucks.  
 • I can't stand being cooped up at home with my kids.  I'd rather work as a prostitute and send money to my mom, aunt, sister, etc. to care for my kids than be stuck at home.  
 • I am a shopoholic and prostitution is the only way I can get enough money to shop till I drop.  
 • I love to get high.  Prostitution is the only way I can get enough money to get as high as I want whenever I want.  
 • Somebody made me do it.  
   
 Speaking as a Political Scientist this is a classic example of when not to use interviews, questionnaires, etc. to find the truth.  Elsewhere I've posted about how to use objective measurement techniques--like counting condom wrappers in putas's hotels to see if sex education really works--because people tell interviewers what they think they want to hear.  And that goes triple when the answer impacts the subjects life, such as determining if a prostitute gets probation or goes to jail, gets deported or amnesty, etc.  
   
 Do NOT under estimate the street smarts of prostitutes, including those who don't speak the language and/or lack formal education.  Their grapevine is very informative.  Prostitutes know extremely well what you want to hear and what is the best thing to say when they are between a rock and a hard place.  
   
 After years of failing to get people to be morally outraged about prostitution the anti-prostitution crusaders have come up with a new tactics.   They are now labeling prostitutes as the victims of human trafficking.    
   
 Since few people know much about prostitution their tacit is working.  But the real truth is almost all women prostituting themselves--even to support a drug habit--are the victims of her own choices, not of Human Trafficking.  
   
 You can't have it both ways:  women are either victims or responsible for their choices.  If, for example, a prostitute with a drug habit is not the victim of her own choices then it is time to reverse feminist gains by returning to the times when women were viewed as being incompetent to mange their affairs, own property, have a job, etc. and thus had to  
 have a male guardian.    
   
 Ever wonder why the police can't get prostitutes to testify against their pimp?  (Hint:  It is not because, after being offered placement is a domestic violence shelter, they are afraid of the pimp.)  Ever wonder why prostitutes call their pimp my old man, boyfriend, etc?  Why do drug addicted prostitutes bail out of a rehab program the moment they get the chance to go back to their old life.  Etc.  The answer is as plain as the nose on your face:  she WANTS to be a prostitute.  For some it is for the money, for others it is for the drugs, for others it is because they crave having men lust after them, and the list goes on.  But, again, the common denominator is:  she wants to be a prostitute.  
   
 Once more:  Human Trafficking is very rare.  Rather it is the current tacit being used to criminalize patronizing a prostitute.  
 

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