Dear Love Goddess,
I am a provider (two years) and as of yet have not crossed the "line"(by Line I mean the L word) with any of my clients. I am a married provider (married 9 years) to a wonderful man who I love with all my heart. Last February I met with a man and instantly felt a really strong connection with him. Despite the fact that we live a long distance away from one another (several states) we see each other as often as possible. He is married and so am I but he does not know that I am married. I have always preferred to keep my private life totally separate from my "professional" life.
Recently he and I have had very meaningful and wonderful conversations and I confess, I feel as if I am hopelessly in love with him and he has confessed that he loves me as well. I am a very intuitive person and I am not naive. I consider myself to be able to smell bullshit a mile away and honestly, I don't smell it with him at all. He continues to provide a donation every time we are together even though I have told him that he does not have to.
I am not naive enough to believe or even want a full time relationship with this person. I am happily married. He just touches my heart in a way that no one else has before.
Is it possible to really love and care for more than one person at a time? Is it possible for me to love my husband, cherish our family and our close friendship and relationship yet be hopelessly in love with someone else at the same time?
I would never leave my husband, or children for anyone in the world, and my "boyfriend/client" would never leave his wife and I would never want him to or encourage that to happen.
I am truly conflicted about this. I love my husband so much but constantly think about my "boyfriend". What do you suggest I do or should I just live life to the fullest and love as hard and much as I can while I can?
~Wonderful Love~
-- Modified on 7/28/2008 7:09:07 PM
but here's my perspective as a client who's experienced the same thing.
A couple of years ago I let myself fall hard for a provider and managed to not scare her off. Over the course of a year or so, we constructed a relationship that worked very, very well for us. The boundaries of the job provided us with a place that was safe enough for us to learn to really trust each other.
Gradually, the L word began to get used. First, in ways that were non-threatening like, "I love the way I fell when you..." etc. Eventually we could say that we love each other and know what we mean by that. We sifted out a lot of the baggage prior to using language that means so many different things to different people.
Although she is now retired, I still talk frequently with my lady friend, visit as often as I can, and I love her dearly. She says the same. It can get pretty difficult at times to balance commitment and desire, safety and the lure of something new, community ties and heartstrings. One thing I find coming up frequently is some degree of resentment toward my wife because our relationship prevents me from spending as much time with my ex-provider friend as I'd like. There's also some guilt over the dishonesty (which is slowly being addressed) and that sometimes gets expressed as anger or aloofness.
Polyamory is difficult. It takes a great deal of self monitoring to try to make sure I am acting consciously and in everyone's better interests. There are times when either my friend or I have to take breaks from our relationship because it makes it difficult for us to manage our 'real' lives with our SOs. It can be very easy to get caught up in the fairy tale sort of stuff.
That said, seldom does anything worthwhile come without effort and I am one of the luckiest men on the planet to have the opportunity to love and be loved by two such wonderful women. If you choose to explore polyamory, just don't do so thinking it will be a piece of cake. You'll find out things about yourself that will surprise you and require you to do some real work.
-- Modified on 7/28/2008 8:46:40 PM
I get from your post that you see things just the way they are.
Once in a while, we come across that perfect person that even the thought of curls your toes.
So why not enjoy each other when you each can and enjoy that magic, for however long it lasts?
I've made a bit of a career out of doing this, and it even cost me my marriage and a big wad of loot to boot, but I wouldn't do anything differently.
Each finds their own path on this road of romance, and I like the signs on the road you are on.
Enjoy!
Somehow, mrfisher, I don't think that a person who states that she loves her husband and doesn't want to leave him would see it that way...
Authenticity and bad faith don't go together,
the Love Goddess
In her case, she would get to continue with her marriage and enjoy the pleasures of this new lover.
In my case, I had to give up the cake (marriage and money), but decided that the joys of the hobby were worth it.
I would want to hear you expand on the authenticity and bad faith issue. I don't follow you.
That's just it, mrfisher,
You cannot and should not compare your own personal situation when counseling others. You need to view it from her side and remove your own life story from the equation. She is clearly stating that she is NOT willing to leave her husband. So, unless you are advising her to lie, that may not work, because her husband may not be willing to go for the polyamorous version of their marriage. Hence, divorce may ensue - as it did for you. In your case, the hobby won. In her case, she's not even a hobbyist - she's a woman who doesn't want to lose her marriage. Apples and oranges, in other words.
As for authenticity and bad faith, these are concepts from existential philosophy as expounded by Jean Paul Sartre and others. Please do a search on the Internet. Briefly, authenticity means "being real" with others. Bad faith is lying to yourself.
Hope that clarifies the issue,
the Love Goddess
-- Modified on 7/29/2008 11:53:32 AM
and I admit as much by saying that each travels their own road. My only reason to have said it was to point out that she has a tremendous opportunity here, one that I didn't have, yet I was still happy with how mine worked out.
As for the authenticity, my major was philosophy and I also studied quite a bit of psycholgy (as a consequence of being in psychotherapy for about six years), so I am quite familiar with the terms in general. My therapist had me read quite a bit of Satre, among others.
My question is how do they relate specifically to what I had to say regarding the original post.
I neither lied to myself during my own experience, nor do I advocate she lie to herself.
Dear WonderfulLove,
In answer to your question, "Is it possible to really love and care for more than one person at a time," the answer is yes. To the question, "Is it possible for me to love my husband, cherish our family and our close friendship and relationship yet be hopelessly in love with someone else at the same time," the answer is also yes. People can and do feel all sorts of things, there are no rules as far as feelings.
However:
If you want to include both men in your relationship and keep them on an equal footing, then lying to either party in this case, whether it's to your "boyfriend/client" or your husband, is not productive.
Ask yourself some additional questions:
1. Would you be prepared to tell your husband the truth?
2. Would you be prepared to tell your "boyfriend/client" the truth?
3. Would you be prepared to accept a non-paying relationship with this boyfriend?
4. How much time would you dedicate to each person?
5. Do you feel you are suited to polyamory?
The one thing I would suggest is that you have an in-depth conversation with your "boyfriend/client" and let him know that you are married. He's not playing with a full deck of cards [not implying he's insane, just unwitting] and he deserves the respect and honesty he needs to make a decision about your relationship - since it's not just about you, it's about his feelings too. If you want him to be involved in your "private life," then he deserves to know the facts. And who knows what HE wants? Maybe he's happy with things the way they are, despite his "love" for you.
Based on the answers to these questions, you will then have to decide if you are going to live authentically, without lying to yourself and others. You can't base a relationship with someone on times paid and contracted for. If you really want to find out who this man is, and, since you are married, you'll need to inform your husband that you'll be absent in order to discover another person. And then go off and spend TIME with the "boyfriend/client" so that you will get to know each other on a much deeper basis, beyond just the physical infatuation and the projections that happen when people are under the influence of "the naughtiness factor" [to quote Jack Morin, author of The Erotic Mind.]
Of course, you can start lying to hubby too, in the service of accomplishing your goals with the other man. That's usually what gets people into divorce court faster than you can imagine, but many people do so to avoid confrontation - in the short run.
I think you know and understand precisely what is meant in my reply,
the Love Goddess
As my relationship with my client emerges into something more I come to realize that in sharing my "personal" life with another person it is not as easy as one may think.
In answer to your questions,
1. I would not be able to tell my husband the truth because it would break his heart. He loves me to distraction and I could absolutely not do that to him.
2. I have decided, Yes, to tell my boyfriend the truth and give him my level best.
3. I would be comfortable accepting a non-paying relationship with this person. Our last "appointment" was a 3 day trip in which he paid my airfare only.
4. As for time, considering that my boyfriend lives thousands of miles away, realistically once a month or every two months spending a weekend together would be the most either of us could manage. I would devote myself nearly 99% of the time to my husband.
5. I do not feel as if I am suited to polyamory. I am a very jealous person myself and to be honest I feel like a fraud when I am with my husband and boyfriend.
I understand where you are going with this and know that the ramifications of a relationship outside of the hobby and my marriage can only lead to heartbreak on one or both sides.
Thank you sincerely for your advice and I will think long and hard about the decisions that I am making.
~Wonderful Love~
I have been in your postion from a male point of view three times...
1) I fell deeply in love with a provider, she with me, she had a boyfriend and me a wife. We had an intense beyond bounds relationship that lasted about 12 more weeks until her boyfriend found out and she had to choose. Of course, she chose him as he was available and me married. Three things resulted- one, her boyfriend threatened to out me; two- the client relationship had to go away and we are both hurting; three- the client relationship had to go away and she is minus that stream of income which had been considerable as much as I had been seeing her.
2) I tried the sugardaddy route next thinking LTA and more intimacy and found quickly how easily semi-pros or non-pros dabbling in what they have no experience in fall in love and had a stalky possessive female--- I learned great empathy for what providers go through!
3) I met a provider who really has her head on straight. We both quickly realized that we had something special, had we met under different circumstances, sparks would be flying.
But she is definitely polyamorous, loves falling in love with different men- feels that her profession allows her to have in different men all the attributes she loves that she would never find rolled up in to one man.
********And best of all..... and this is for you WondderfulLove..... she says "why would I turn a wonderful paying client that I love and he loves seeing me into a non-paying boyfriend? Makes no sense!" "I'd lose the income and probably lose the boyfriend in short order...... I have it perfect now!"********
further state that any decision you make will be the right decision.
How you address and act on that decision is where the crux of the matter lies.
Here, the authenticity that LG refered to comes into play. It's one thing to deceive another (and is often the right route too) but never deceive yourself.
From reading how you relate here, I have little doubt that you'll do fine.
I have been able to love more than one woman at a time for as long as I can remember. I have been lucky I guess.