It's been interesting watching the whole Harvey Weinstein saga unfold along with all the other similar types of behavior by powerful men in the entertainment industry using their position to garner sexual favors willingly or unwillingly from women. Should those of us playing in the bowl be concerned about enticing SBs with sugar? I would venture to say no. The main difference, POT have voluntarily signed up to become an sb, and either initiate or respond to inquiries from SDs. Am I missing something here?
And I think we should all be mindful that even though these girls do voluntarily sign up on SA, there's still the potential for harm. My personal philosophy is to have fun while doing no harm. Or to put it in more positive terms, I always follow Dan Savage's "Campfire Rule" which is to leave your lover in better condition than when you found her. Most of the SBs I've dated have been so enthusiastic about the bedroom activities that I had no doubt it was a win/win situation for them; lots of pleasure and some money as icing on the cake! But I've had one or two where I was not so certain. One I'm thinking of who is nearly impossible to engage in conversation, makes little eye contact, is somewhat mechanical in bed, and never Os. She swears she's having a good time, and she continues to ask me for dates. But I can't help thinking maybe she really hates doing this except for the money. If I can't resolve this question I'll have to quit seeing her. I don't want to participate if I fear she's only willing due to financial necessity. It's still consensual adult activity, not coercion, but it does not meet my personal ethical standards of behavior.
Agreed. There's only one that I walked away from over this issue, but it was clear that this was all strict financial necessity for her and that she wasn't having any fun.
Perhaps this is something a delusion; are 20-ish women really having any fun with 60+ year old guys? Like GaG I work hard to be "not repulsive", and like Sweetman, I've found that many/most actually seem to enjoy the company, a respectful guy, and the sex part has ranged from "it's okay" to "they LOVE it", and that was a big surprise to me!
The combination of the money and the change from broke, know nothing 20-ish guys makes this, I think, a very reasonable activity for many SBs.
but I can say that most gals are very good at making me think they like my company, which is just fine with me.
Sounds like deer in the headlights girl.
and the relationship is not one where the client has control over the provider (As in being her boss, teacher, welfare case worker, etc.), then there is no exploitation.
Weinstein and his ilk take advantage of their power over their victims to exploit them when they most likely had no intention of having any sexual relationship with the person in the first place.
Interesting question. I like all of the responses, here is my humble take.
We are not controlling the young ladies careers, simply offering financial help on a short term, case by case situation. Either party can walk away at anytime. HW had control to the actresses livelyhood and was in s position to not grant them the work.
Regarding whether they are enjoying the time with a older guy. I can say I’ve had one decide she couldn’t go on because she felt like a sex toy. She perpetuatuated that by telling me she was submissive and wanted to be told what to do. Regardless I fell if the SB had any issues with the game then it’s over no issues. I also have one in rotation that wants to be tied, blindfolded, and silenced. She says it’s good for her. I’m confused by that but I’ll soilder on.
Our moral issues? Well we have to deal with that don’t we? I wonder if I’m a sex addict by not being happy with the sex I get at home and always wanting more. I know I wrestle with my morals, I won’t presume anyone else does.
I will keep getting my poon on. I have a new one that caught my eye. Shiny objects!!
I agree with the general sentiments expressed above. The sugar bowl dynamic is about adults mutually consenting to engage in sexual and other activities. While for HW, he and other very powerful (and lets face it, less powerful) men in virtually every industry have been using their power to coerce or force women into compromising themselves as long as there has been hierarchical systems in society. This is the very definition of "quid pro quo" that has driven much of the sexual harassment legislation and case law in US and other Western countries over the last 40+ years.
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The only moral issues (with one exception noted below) that SD's must wrestle with are the same as the moral issues they encounter in traditional mongering: Relationship fidelity, p4p/NSA vs."traditional relationships", religious prohibitions, and legal prohibitions. If you're OK with banging a pro, you're probably ok with banging an SB. For me, I'm not in a relationship, don't need to love someone to fuck her, not religious, and strongly oppose criminalization of p4p sex. There may be an argument that as "wealthy" men we are de facto in a position of power. But we don't use that power to damage, deny, destroy, or prevent our SB's from being successful. There is no "do this or I will take some adverse action against you" aspect. Note the US laws on "quid pro quo" also cite examples where failing to "do this" results in "not doing some positive action" as well. But that typically includes the existence of some additional hierarchical relationship (manager/employee, producer/actress, vendor/customer, etc.) as well. This typically does not exist in the sugar bowl, unless you are stupid enough to actually hire your SB at your company.
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The I alluded to above comes in the form of SB's who might be being exploited by others to enter the sugar bowl. We often talk about SB's who are semi-pros or pros on the DL. But there are also a (fairly small) number of SB's who could be forced or coerced into SB status by a pimp, BF, drug dealer, etc. I do think it is our responsibility to watch for the warning signs of this make sure we are not unwittingly facilitating this situation. Again, this is a parallel to the traditional monger world. But it may be hard to spot when we just assume the 20-ish hottie is just out for old guy cock and some Benjamins for fun. I am typically leery of SB's in "open relationships" and who seem to focus on getting BCD pay ASAP to the exclusion of all other interactions. My Spidey Senses get all tingly when on top of these, she only has a burner phone, no permanent residence, and is using fake pics (usually published pics of modes or celebs). When encountered, or just highly suspicious, I decline.
I actually had the experience of meeting one once. The red flags of a hooker were there immediately, wanted to meet immediately, no first date public meeting, etc etc, which I was ok with as I "like" hookers, but the shocker was when we were discussing "allowance" in person after she admitted she had been "dropped off" and wasn't driving herself as she had told me at first, she made a statement that she would "get in trouble" if she didn't collect a certain amount, (I don't remember or care what the actual amount was)., Something in my brain just snapped with the realization she was not just a hooker, but a pimped hooker to boot.
I don't know about the rest of you, but I absolutely refuse to enrich a pimp or help facilitate the pimping of women or girls. (or boys too I suppose, but I don't roll that way. lol) When she said that "she would get in trouble" it was like someone hit me in the face, I IMMEDIATELY threw her out of my house and informed her that if her driver/manager had an issue with me he was more than welcome to take it up with me personally, I did warn her that I was likely to shoot him right through the fucking front door instead of answering though. lol She wasn't happy, but she left without causing a scene.
After I tossed her out of my house and after waiting a suitable period of time to be sure I wouldn't have an angry pimp at my front door, I reported her to SA and her profile was deleted by the next day.
I won't say this is a huge problem on SA, but I can say first hand that it does happen.
Thanks for pointing out the "someone dropped me off" clue as well. Good addition to the Spidey Radar sensors.
Hypothetical question, GaG: If you had been in a public setting like a local bar or a Starbucks, would you have considered discretely alerting the police (or maybe asking the staff for "Angela" or an "angel shot") and then staying with her until help arrived?
You simply cannot help people who don't want to help themselves. I have been around "pimps and ho's" since I was a preteen and trying to "help" a pimped hooker is more likely to get you shanked by her than by him. Some (a lot) of pimped/trafficked women are "willing victims" IOW by just about any definition of the word they are being pimped/abused/trafficked but at some level they want to be where they are. Sometime they have some really fucked up reasons for being in the situation they are in, but you can't always protect people from themselves.
I learned a very long time ago not to play "Captain Save a Ho" but I won't knowingly contribute or enable the problem either. Now if a girl reached out and wanted help, that's a totally different matter, but to call the cops on someone who doesn't want help is imposing my own moral code on someone else and getting LE involved in someone's life who hasn't asked for it is meddling not helping. I don't believe in making life decisions for other people and in my experience "do gooders" do a lot more harm than good.
I can't help but mix some pinch of paternalism into the lust I feel for these young women.
Yes, they're "adults", but the ones I'm seeing who are 18-22 are SO YOUNG. If I decide to go BCD with them (or if I don't decide to) I can't help but dispense some friendly advice, like (1) have a girlfriend to check in with when you see/meet a new guy, (2) use the fucking condoms (I've never, EVER been offered BBFS from providers, and it is COMMON with SBs!), (3) don't throw caution out the window because the guy "seems nice" or you're following "intuition".
Sweetman's citing of Dan Savage is on point. These interactions are transient and transactional, but that doesn't mean they need to be one-sided or predatory. I'll pursue my own needs/interests dealing the SBs, because they're doing the same, but there are lines I won't cross. As Sweetman says, they should be left better off for their encounter(s) with you and they shouldn't look back years later and feel exploited.
And one last thought, I like to think that in decades to come these sweet young things will look back on their encounters with me and think, wow I really was lucky to meet such a nice guy at that stage of my life, rather than think something negative or regretful. I want to become a pleasant chapter, or at least paragraph, in their memoirs. That goal helps guide my behavior towards them.
Agree with Sweetman. I want to be a fond moment(s) in my SB’s lives. When they want to end I’m ok with it. I hope I can keep them going for months on end. No pressure, keeping it positive.
I’ve learned so far to ask them not to lie to me. If we can be honest with each other it’s better.