I recently shared correspondance with another hobbyist after reading his review of one of the ladies at Julie's; who he writes about DATY with her. I've been with her as well but would rather eat a pistol than DATY with her. Perhaps it was uncool to send him this message? However, I assured him I was not busting balls. I was only attempting to figure out why he, or how he could DATY, and/or what motivates him to DATY with a provider I probably wouldn't kiss? Does he always do it?
I am extremely concerned where I put my mouth and WHO I choose to EAT. The only provider that I would DATY at Julies -- for example, would be Shannon.
Since then, I have spent time reading other recently posted reviews more carefully. I found myself both curious and interested to learn who else in MY opinion should have their heads examined for going down on many of these women. I have read quite a few reviews as an example where the reviewer would not take a BBBJ (knowing it is available based on other reviews or first hand) only covered, but will DATY with that provider. Am I crazy??? Are they crazy???
For me, I need a solid 8.5 - 9 or better for DATY and wonder what my fellow hobbyists think about this matter?

...you ask "DATY, why?" but then add "For me, I need a solid 8.5-9 or better for DATY"...and I assume you are refering to appearance ratings.  You also write "I am extremely concerned where I put my mouth and WHO I choose to EAT."  So my question is; What is it about a providers looks that makes one worthy of DATY and another not?  I gather from your post that because your hobbyist buddy chose to DATY with a provider that you felt was not up to your "8.5-9" standard that he was "crazy", even insinuating that he and others may be engaging in unsafe sex.  But for some reason you feel a provider with "8.5-9" looks is somehow perfectly safe to go down on.  Personally, I find there to be little correlation between how pretty a girl is and her pussy.

-- Modified on 11/5/2002 9:21:06 PM

unclean thoughts ?

...I have found that if I do a good job of DATY, future sessions with the lady become MUCH more of a GFE, and there is a world of difference, both mental, and physical, in the connection we make.

First, I find the fact that you're naming names to be a bit inappropriate. Please, let's not digress to discussions of which people in specific we are, or are not, comfortable being intimate in what manners with.

Anyway ...

One of the great things about the hobby is that large numbers of radically divergent preferences can all fit themselves under the same umbrella. I remember when I first discovered the meaning of one particular term, from an avid enthusiast who sought providers that would allow for him to do it ... and I just thought, "bleccch, man! that's the GROSSEST thing I've ever HEARD of."

I personally don't DATY with any provider, and basically "save" that for my civilian girlfriends. It seems "intimate" to me, more so than a DFK even, and also seems sort of "dirty" in a pongy / kinky and not-unsanitary way. A level of bodily fluid I'm not interested in from any P4P person I've ever met. Although I could see, that if she were endowed with something delectable down there, I might be tempted. I've just never met anyone built that way ... and yes, I DO know what way would entice me. It's a certain line-up of shape, spread, angle, grooming, viscosity, cleanliness, scent, all that stuff. I've seen porn pictures that turned me on to the idea of DATY with the subject of the photo; and others that turned me OFF.

I'm not identifying my personal preferences in this post, as little as possible. Y'all so far only know that there's SOMETHING I'm grossed out by, that another guy found great; and that there's SOME formation of genitalia I'd DATY on, and some other that I wouldn't.

I do agree that DATY is one of the higher-risk behaviors, in terms of disease transmission. But heck, relative to what other people are interested in, it might be in the lowest bracket of risk for all I know. I try not to judge. I've seen plenty of posts that suggest that HIV is not half as transmittable as the CDC currently suggests, and plenty of good "backchannel" info on why the CDC would find it in its own best interests to mislead the public that way. But am I gonna start sharing IV needles with street addicts? Some guys might ...

Anyway, your squeamishness about DATY is kind of shared by me. But it's not so much specific to one woman or one level of cleanliness, as much as to one level of attitude. And further, I recommend you let everyone have his own level of attitude.

-----

PS -- the thing that disgusted me that the other guy enjoyed was a "creampie" ...

Again I say... how many HIV positive lesbians do you know?
(Yes, they exist. But in what proportion?)

BTW.... what the heck IS a creampie???? =:O

Hugs*
Nicole

an internal cum shot, whereby the guy cums inside the pussy or ass of the woman. I'm not sure if it's part of the definition, but it's apparently customary to see the cum dripping out.

It's when a guy shoots his load into the woman and when it leaks out it looks like a creampie.  Apparently there are quite a few men out there with this fetish~

ReATY, why?

Because I see providers to have sex with another person. DATY gets the lady involved, and I love seeing a woman get turned on, and it is a special turn on for me knowing that she is responding to what I am doing. I know it is an ego thing, but it really turns me on when I bring one of these very lovely and sexy ladies to an orgasm.

Many guys are somewhat or very much grossed out by DATY in general.  The fact that you relate it to the general look of the provider means that you probably view it as something nasty, and would only do that if you felt there were other tangible assets to gain.  Since you cannot see much more than the coochie itself when you DATY, it shouldn't matter how that provider looks, right?

To me, there are two very disgusting aspects of DATY that can come into play:

1. The fact that if you are DATY with a busy provider, somebody else probably DATY that day.  Eeeeeeewwwww.

2. If something ain't quite right down there, or if that person's natural odors simply don't agree with you, it isn't the most pleasant experience in the world.

Many people disagree with me on this, but I don't see DATY as being any more risky as obtaining a BBBJ.

From my perspective, I am a pussy guy.  I am absolutely fascinated with the workings down there, and for me DATY is a mechanism to get closer to the action.  I have to admit, however, that on many occasions I did not follow through on the oral part, and stuck with digital penetration (i.e. I let my fingers do the walking).  But most of all, I just like to explore.

-- Modified on 11/6/2002 1:10:19 PM

Then there was a DC lady who was so excited with playtime, she looked like creampie before I could start DATY. WOW, she's very sensitive

Kudos to you....I do allow DATY to those whose dental hygiens and mouths pass inspection I also take other precautions before
and after so that contracting anything is very very limited. It is obviously very stimulating for a many men but I fail to understand why they would erform it on a pprovider who doess bbbj's and/or regular trips to greece. The chances of being exposed to her blood are greatly increased by regular greek.

You often here the qoute that no case of HIV has ever been documented that was contraced through oral trasmission... well that from a scientifc perspective doens't mean squat because a study like that cannot be structured to fit a true scientifc model.

Here though is a statistic from an organization in new york that is dedicated to helping street hookers stay alive and get off the streets. i will do a search and see if I can find the link but for those of you who have seen the HBO Documentary "Live nude girls unite' the women who organizes this project in new york is the mother of the strpper that is making the documantary
they offer free HIV testing to the ladies on the street and the ones who only provided oral service...they are the ones who are wearing tight pants, or obvious pantyhose, had a much higher rate of infection...they chalked this up to the fact that almost all of them failed to use protection because they thought this was a safe activity.









































the documentary

Just like anything else one might do with a provider.

DATY is a risky habit with providers, at least without some kind of cover being used.  Btw, most providers won't give a BBJ so why should a client DATY without protection?  HIV isn't the only concern.  One can hide herpes if you can cover it with cloths but what if you get it on your tongue and lips?  What I find amazing is that most people are more worried about HIV vs other STDs one can get.  HIV is very hard to get vs the other STDs...and HIV isn't the only one that kills.  Hepatitis kills too - it's just not at a 100% rate.  Also, Hepatitis is a lot easier to catch (if the provider has it).  So as my title states, Dine AT Your own risk.

Sure many lesbians may not have HIV.  But what about the other STDs out there?  HIV isn't the only STD that kills...it's just that HIV has a good rate of 100% to do the job - but is much harder to catch, as you've stated.  I would be more worried about getting other types of STDs - example: herpes.

ReATY, why?

I don't know why other hobbyists DATY, but I suspect most do it for the same reason that I do it. Simply put- I enjoy it. I enjoy everything about it. DATY is the most intimate of all acts with a woman; DATY is the surest way to to make the lady climax. For me, sex without DATY is devoid of real pleasure and excitement, almost like rushing straight to the mountain top with eyes closed and getting no enjoyment from the trip. Risk? Yes, of course, but slight only from this activity. I try to reduce the risk by carefully choosing ladies who avoid BBBJ and anal (especially anal). Fool proof? Of course not, but  many of the things we all enjoy are not without risk. Rationalization? Again-yes, of course. But,
40+ years and literally hundreds of women with whom I have performed DATY, and never an STD. I ain't gonna stop now!!!

Yeah, this something that is going to take off. I can see all the providers and hobbyists chucking the condoms aside to offer this fetish..

Why not the ominous warning about that? I find that hypocritical.

Sure, vaginal fluid in mouth is probably more dangerous than saliva in mouth but it's still body fluid exchange. Couldn't she have given a few bbjtc today before you came over? Don't just confine the danger to daty.

People give daty to providers because it turns both partners on. That's pretty easy to understand. Of course doing any uncovered intimate act is the individual's decision to make  - and they are all very low risk anyway.

2 injections of recombinant Hep B antigen one month apart, then one booster six months later. Get you Hepatitis A at the same time. You'll be locked down on the Hep front for the next ten years. Small but crucial vaccine fact.... a percentage of those immunized against hep b do not produce an adequate immune response from the first series. After you have been innoculated,
say, six months from the initial two, but before the booster, ask to have a hep B respoinse test... this is to see if your immune system is making the needed antibodies... if it isn't, you have to repeat the process...

good researchers know not to exptrapolate too much from one population to another. Oral hygiene and oral-gigival infection rates, as well as good old caries... holes in the teeth from eating sugar and junk food without brushing, is one of the most significant health variables across different socio economic groups.

Street people are notorious for terrible oral health. Completely neglectful, no established cleaning routines, lots of receding, bleeding gums.

How many dentists are interested in providing these types with services, not to mention hygenists ? Damned few.

It is extremely probable that such a population would present opportunities for blood born disease transmission

good stuff, works as advertised. I had a non venereal herpes problem (Shingles, not Herpes I or Herpes II), required a high dose of Valtrex for about two weeks. Problem went away and stayed away. Also, now I take a lysine supplement daily to make sure it doesn't come back.

Could be because DATY doesn't transmit HIV; could be because the lesbian community hasn't had large-scale HIV introduced into it (yet) like the gay community did in the early 80s before therapies / preventatives / awareness; could be that lesbians participate in sex with fewer partners on average. Your argument lacks connection between evidence and conclusion -- the fallacy of "accident." Just because A comes with, or before, B, doesn't mean A causes B.

Example: it's lucky Abraham Lincoln was assassinated, cuz otherwise the US would never have had a chance to win the Spanish-American war.

I think, though, my point about transmission of diseases was missed. I was simply claiming that I consider DATY to be a higher-risk activity than NOT DATY, and I would find that a difficult proposition to disagree with.

I think, as well, my point about letting everyone else have his or her preferences, has gotten washed under the DATY rug. Oh well, the original subject was DATY wasn't it.

BTW, it was my understanding that creampie-fetishists don't just LOOK at the creampie, they TASTE it. That's why I said "blecccch" loud and clear ...

I take acyclovir twice a day for Herpes II maintenance.  Haven't had a outbreak since I started this over a year ago.

1.  No need to get the Hep A vaccine really.  It is not spread sexually unless you do anal and don't clean your hands after.  The Hep A virus is shed in your stool.  Even if you get Hep A it is not a chronic disease and will be gone in 2-3 months after some nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, liver inflammation.  Most who get Hep A never know it.

2.  While the Hep B vaccine will prevent you from getting Hep B if you respond to the vaccine it does not protect you from getting Hep C.  Only about 20% of those who get Hep B will run into problems whereas 80% of those with Hep C will.  So I would be much more afraid of Hep C.  Long term complications include liver cancer and cirrhosis (end up with huge belly, daily abdominal pain, males grow tits and their balls shrink, you turn yellow, develop ulcers in your stomach, varicose veins in your esophagus which can bleed easily and endanger your life,etc). dementia etc)

Yeah shit for brains!!! Did you really have to get so graphic??? I saw the whole hideous scenario up close and personal, when my wife died of a rare form of cirrhosis; and she did not have Hepatitis of any kind. Please keep your ugliness to amuse yourself, don't use it to torture others.

fwiw, Hepatitis C is not considered an infection risk unless you either share needles (or any object which can pierce the skin) or engage in unprotected anal intercourse. The CDC considers Hep C risk to low even in cases of unprotected vaginal intercourse. There was one study of monagamous heterosexual couples where one partner was HCV positive and the other was HCV negative. They look for long term seroconversion rates in the negative partners, and found that all the shared activities of cohabitation and sex, with the above noted exception, did not result in meaningful contagion of HCV to the uninfected partner.

The greatest risk for HCV infection was transfusion prior to the discovery of the presence of the HCV virus in the human blood supply, risks at tatooing and body piercing parlors, risk to EMS workers who may be spattered with blood.

The chances of getting HCV through most sexual activities are minimal.

If you plan on any sexual adventures, do the smart thing and get BOTH the Hep A vaccine and the Hep B vaccine series, ESPECIALLY if DATY is part of your lifestyle. If you are so reckless as to qualify as a genuine Hep C risk, you probably have other major problems that require expert medical attention or counseling.

ReATY, why?

I read a lot of the replies.
As a provider, I it is my opinion that we all need to be responsible. Responsible does not mean that we take a condom off because we are so into it or we just go bbj with one or two people.
We have to be responsible at all times. I only have 1 regular that I do not make wear a condom for bj but anything else we do. I am very skeptical about things like this because I care for my body. Why I choose him to do it with is because he doesnt leak out before it happens, I trust him very much, and we have a good relationship. Sure, I have other regulars but everyone must be strapped at all times.
If a man chooses to go down on me, he may. I am very very clean. If he doesnt, I never ask or push the subject. If a man doesnt appear to be clean to me, I simply tell him that it is not something that I will allow and that is that.
But in reality, no matter what, we all just have to be careful. And for a guy to ask why would someone do that with a provider? Why should a provider do it with a client? Vise versa. Why should anyone do it anyways unless it is with the person you love and care about? And as there is protection for men, there is to place on a woman to so that it can be enjoyed both ways. Siran wrap works for the men to be able to go down on a woman.
Just be protected at all times so you dont ever have to feel worried and even if you are protected, have regular test done to assure yourself 100% if you choose to play.

Now play on!!

Sky Silverman
   

ReATY, why?

Let's face it guys, these providers are not having sex with gay men,rarely are they drug addicts, and they are usually getting checked every three to six months.My guess is that they are much safer than the gal you pick up in a bar.Stay away from the back alley girls and stick with the high class providers and DATY should be almost NO risk for catching STD'S, at least the one we all fear the most...HIV.

It's a darn shame.  I think perhaps if we could get past the moral issues and enforcing it on others (I respect people's beliefs, but not when they try to force me to feel or think the same) and realize that hey, people are going to do this obviously anyways, so why lose precious life?  Someday I hope that we will get past this and think about the safety of our well being as well as others, if that is not our cup of tea and have an instant test available for STD's.  The doctor I go see monthly is able to get the results back to me the next day, so why not make a kit to use at home?  Of course then again, there are those who still can't program a VCR...

Nothing good ever comes free eh?

yes, dellman, daty with a provider is much more safe than someone you might meet at a bar.

take a shower and enjoy!!

always wear a condom for vaginal or anal and you will die of old age....