This isn't an auction with bidding for our time and services, unless a lady is actually offering herself up in an actual auction style ad.

Honestly IMO there are better places (like the PO Board) for ladies to rant about these kinds of things.

Still luv ya thou!  

Steph XO

High-end restaurants are commodities?

I don't think so.  If they're truly "high end" they'll offer unique dishes / preparations, and likely a unique atmosphere, to justify their high price.

But about your working with restaurant servers to get "extras"... does that mean you negotiate the price of the entrees, or do you seek extras beyond the published menu?  You see where this is going, right?  I think lots of "hobbyists" seek "extras" from providers.  But they don't negotiate the providers' published rates.  And when they get those "extras", they compensate the provider with a nice tip--as I'm sure you do for those restaurant servers who give you extras--right?

When you're just getting by on a small salary, you pretty much HAVE to negotiate everything you buy.  Otherwise, you will have to go without some things that you want.  

 
For major purchases, I just get 4 or 5 bids, and select from there. For appliances and such, it takes 10 minutes to find a coupon online for a discount.  Haggling over small shit is a time-suck for me, so I avoid it if I can, but for those that have the time, negotiating is an effective tool to stretch one's otherwise limited resources.  

The pockets.

8o)

Word! read my post about the same dynamic. Some folks have money because they are takers. Everywhere they go they strive to take more than the give. Be a Giver. I

I agree with you. However, I do not negotiate with providers because resentful women provide bad service. I learned early in my years of hobbying that negotiation causes deep resentment. Some providers will say yes and give you bad service.

This IS so simple and yet ignored when communicated. They'll still try and sometimes do. I don't give discounted service so I don't come at a discounted rate. When I have caved I still give my best.  who hurts worst but me from that I want to do MY best, whatever that is that day, and it can vary, of course, but I would never tarnish my own reputation by performing poorly to show someone. That's not the long game if you're on that.

Things go bad for me the moment I start hearing things along the lines of: "Well, sweety, I don't know why you aren't smarter about your business model.  But you go right ahead and stay home, waiting for your little phone to ring, while I'm out spending these dollars on a ho who's happy to have them."    

Someone above mentioned the bad service a lady might give after negotiating her rate down.  By the same token, some gents can catch a resentment after a failed negotiation requires him to pay the full rate - and I, for one, don't want to be showing up to play-date with someone who's feeling even the littlest bit bitter.

So I'm not saying don't ask your questions.  I'm saying: be prepared to accept a "no thank you" before you do.

You think you're better than handymen?

And why in the hell do you think negotiating has ANYTHING to do with a budget?

 
I really wish ALL hookers take some business classes and learn what a business is all about.  How is that not a requirement to get a bona fide "Hooker license"?  I know that Rrasha has an online class at this very moment for hookers seeking guidance on "How to successfully navigate scumbag negotiators".   Please contact her for more details.

 
To take an "offer" as some type of criticism is infantile.  Please please please go to your community college and take a basic business class and learn something.

 
Every owner always has the option of rejecting an offer.   But most don't...especially as the rent/car payment is due.   You know what I speak of  LOL

Why is that ok, but it's not ok to negotiate with you?

You mean we're not just paying for her time?  Oh what a fool I was.

First off you are not "purchasing" companionship, you are renting it.

 
Aside from that, it's not that big a fucking difference. It's a business transaction, not sexual nirvana. Get a fucking grip already.

A much more common (and potentially hackle-raising) question is: "When I contacted you last year for an appointment, your rate was X - I'm hoping you can honor that now."

We've had more than one private chat...and you know how I think regarding this topic.

 
I'll stipulate that most people simply abhor negotiating...on anything.  That allows those of "us" who are comfortable with that to work the room, so to speak.  And most often both sides end up with what they are seeking.

I don't know how many interviews you've ever conducted...or appeared for.  But I've been on the conducting end for a very long time.  And generally with folks seeing rather large payday's.  To not enter into a negotiation over their "services" is something I would find very very odd.  And it has NOTHING to do with respect.

 
So unless you want to stipulate that hookers aren't really "business people"...or that they're selling something that has an absolute price due to some exterior force....then they, as most people, are subject to discussions on payment of services.  Pretending to be offended is simply nonsense.

 
Don't be such a stranger on the boards.

Service jobs with billable hours have one unrecoverable opportunity -- lost time.   As I've said over and over, if your billable hours are not as many as you'd like, it is better to get paid half price for a hour than $0.   Refusing to negotiate and to lose the opportunity is to throw that money away.

I should clarify my statement from my previous post. I do negotiate, but prefer to be given the opportunity to present the idea myself. It's civility.  

I do negotiate but prefer a more gentile approach that feels more civilized. The gentleman expresses a concern, and in  discussing with you the 'why' behind his concerns, I can determine what I feel that evening is a fair rate, given the client's circumstances, as well as my own.  

There's a special relationship between service and compensation for it, that seems self-evidently not the right arena for callous auctioning. In tech sales, I routinely won deals with the highest price because that's how much they valued me being there for them than the other people. So, in the "real world" service is special. The doorman at Macy's does well.  I guess I'm suggesting paying attention to decorum goes a long way. Don't try to "negotiate" be vulnerable. Be tender. That is a better bridge than asking to give less in exchange for what could have been more.

If we're to be sensitive to your economic situation, please also regard ours. Precarious at best, perilous if severe circumstances, our income is subject to all sorts of destabilizing factors. It's quite perilous indeed if the clients become a destabilizing factor. That will only diminish everyone's involvement. Since for now your influence is such, we rely on your good character and judgement to ascertain when and when not to bandy price about. I know I'm very fortunate with the clients I have. This is an amazing journey and I love getting to share it!

I have had that thought too. I can see where they are different fro a provider perspective but not a client perspective.  

guys are likely looking for logic in that one but this is  he shady area where our work does bleed off into who we may be offline and a gal who really gets off on getting gifts, but not giving discounts feels valued and respected. No gifts no discounts. I think that mentality stems from the romance programming. Smart punters lead with some gifts from the wishlist a few days prior to a date, confirm appointment before, show up on time with flowers and send a thank you shortly afterward. If you want a GFE, make it a GFE. If you haggle your GF for stuff too then that's just yo ubeing you.

I for one find negotiating for a personal service to be beyond-the-pale tacky. I'll bite but I won't respect you in the morning. I like getting a bargain on a pair of shoes at a thrift store but I don't question the value my hairdresser sets for her time. I don't question the value of the session I get from a massage therapist, dentist, etc. Personal services are personal by definition.  

So, don't be surprised when we take it personally, as a direct communication of how you view our value to be less than what we ask for. Don't do that. Go to a lower priced provider. S

Save us from the humiliation, honestly.I don't need to know that you might could have seen me if my rate wasn't so high. If it's a matter of not being able to book myself I'll consider it good business advice to heed, but if I'm doing as well as I want to be doing, I'm going to be more patient for the gentlemen who see my value on par with how I value myself.  

What currency are we really working in, though? Beauty.  Women's Beauty will be here long after man's dollar bills are dust, but males will still be toiling to gain attention of beautiful females. In this business just because of this dynamic, the most experienced, i.e. mature, advanced "'of a certain age" providers are not as highly valued in the market place (many exceptions abound, but are not the norm)  because the real valuable currency in play is attraction and youthful beauty is dick hard shit. The bait and switch is that beauty doesn' t necessarily guarantee a good time just a nice view. I'm still quite shocked at how inflated that can make the cost and that the market supports it apparently. Powerful motivator, beauty .

SO, the discriminating punters who know how to get a great value, prize the attention of the advanced provider, knowing he will get superior service at a very competitive rate. Thrad will be all.

THis.
I
Suze Orman said I am for sale but I am not ON sale. So, I don't cut my rate but that allows me to have greater flexibility with my time as a reward which, doesn't that FEEL better than getting her at half the price?  
It's more of a real GFE situation. More time with the same highly valued companion.

So let's use a consumable. You can get these sodas at half off. Ok you paid 50 cents instead of a dollar for that soda. If you had to leave it behind somewhere, you probably would't feel as bad as if you'd paid a dollar.  

So, the half price hooker valued less than the "VIP" "ELITE" "EXCLUSIVE" "LUXURY" courtesan who cannot remain so if she's available on sale sometimes. It's a headgame but in sales those things tip the scales. People give money to people and if the thing for sale is that person, they can never lose their value. There it is. Nailed it, I think Does that make sense?

Not proposing it's the way to think about it just that that is how's thought about. Those are deeply entrenched belief to behavior pathways that don't switch off easily. They place the value of a woman on her sexual service. This is really critically unique in that the very thing that she is being valued for simultaneously and very cruelly lowers her value in society even today for fuck's sake. IT's still not safe to be a slut. Trust me, no one at my civilian job heard about my gangbang birthday hotel extravaganza because THAT is not a thing.  Picture that for a  moment. It's even more ok to go through a sex change and have a same sex marriage all at once than it is to be a slut at all.  
So no one got that version of my birthday. The truth. The version that would have allowed me to be authentic (key point here).  

It would be the last conversation I had with  a lot of folks at work and the start of an endless one with others. SO, no one got to hear the truth on that  

Even today, women and unfortunately girls go into sexwork, though they maybe driving it themselves, are still precariously perched on his precipice that you have power over completely and we do not. Completely. For the moment

So basically we as providers say, "devil may care, I'm going to e a whore! Fuck the haters, yes fuck them for a fee!" and off frolicking and fucking with our new found friends we go. Until things get messy and we have needs and personalities and boundaries and limits and our new friends' feathers get fucked up which causes ego deflation which generates all of this hostility and outcast we are with our needs and wants and thoughts and boundaries.  

Except this was no ordinary deal. We tore up a social contract that leaves us stranded on the rings of Saturn, going and he speed of now, as one does in complete shock, realizing no on has our back.  
There's no one out there for us once we cross over from Virgin Mother to Silent Whore. So please, think about the full impact that devaluation has on eroding the experience, the relationship, goodwill, trust, etc. Strive to be honorable whenever possible and well get the door and carry the bags. that's chivalry, that's decency. Be the best you that you can be. I've had clients who CLEARLY did that with me. they stand out in the crowd. But they don't need to. Anyone can do it. So imagine I hae two appointments one day. Guy one has already bought lingerie shows up with flowers puts cash down watches clock sticks to the menu, doesn't smell and thanks me afterward in a lovely follow up email. Exalting.  

2nd date is 15 minutes early which is as disuptive as being late, and only brought a portion of his fee.  He then tries to do thing and ask or things right off my list of don't's which if you don't receive that ask for it and then I have to tell him times' up. Exhausting.  

Ill risk sounding really douchey by bringing myself up as a example,but dammit, people have  to start bragging about do the right things. SO, I almost always pay my people more than their quoted rate. My mind runs some calcullation involving the nature of the work, if they're young or mid age, older, what their financial condition as compared to mine etc.  

This is really the first time in my life I've had money to do that with at all and I found myself outside the norm in my practices.  My hairdresser, house keeper, massage therapists, etc. MY God I cannot imagine asking them for a special. But I've made the observation that people who have money often talk and act like they do not have money. People who don't have money will talk and act like they have money. The poor don't ask for handouts the way the rich do. That's truth right there. I grew up eating blocks of government cheese and fried salteens My mom was a waitress, housekeeping at a hotel and barmaid. I don't haggle for services. I'll trade, but wont' give less.  

The poor punters save their money and go to the provider they want to go to when they have the money to do so. I Bet he gets a good ride for that.  

 
that's how it looks in my head.

Damn, I hate to argue with such a hot woman, (given how easily I'm pussy whipped), but what makes sexworkers so special that they're beyond negotiation? And for that matter, if it was true, how is it somehow less wrong if we know one another as a longstanding repeat client?  Given your scenario, that makes it even worse since this personal relationship should clue the client in tot he providers REAL LIFE financial needs.

I've never negotiated for a first-time meeting, but if a provider doesn't have a rate for a particular service or set amount of time, my experience can actually benefit her. A lesson in marketing and competitive pricing is just what some of these so-called young women who don't know their own worth needs.

Until I here that a provider is giving freebies to longstanding clients who fell on hard times the respect as a human being thing rings hollow.

I sheepishly admit to working out a longer term arrangement with a very well regarded and beautiful local provider at a mutually agreed upon price below her posted rate.  I noticed the level of enthusiasm and chemistry dropped.  In hindsight I don't think it was a good thing to do.  I'm convinced that pay as you go is better.  Additionally note that some girls will openly offer a discount for earlier bookings.  (Good ......until one gets a cancellation rep)

Actually, a lot of guys report that their regulars offer or at least agree to either extra time or other incentives for frequent fliers. The question under your scenario is whether you're willing to pay up front for those 5 more meetings. It definitely takes some mutual trust however you set something like this up.

If I followed correctly you said it would be foolish for a client to prepay his 5 2hrs appointments at 80hr opposed to 90hr?
In that sense it would also be foolish for a provider to take him at his word. If that's the case all a man has to say is I will see you X amount of times for X whereas his intentions is to only see you once and he will still get the discount he wanted.  
Just like every other profession makes you by in bulk for a discount, this shouldn't be any different.  

Now if you have seen him several times, that's a different example.

Cheap people are trying to be cheap.  Good point on negotiations being two sided.  If you get nothing out of the arrangement, why should you negotiate?  I negotiate fees in my business if there is something to be gained by me.  if it is one sided, that is quickly apparent, and not the business/client I want.

Absolutely correct.  Asking for a discount without a quid pro quo is NOT negotiating, its chiseling.  Once in awhile, I have asked for a price for a multi-hour session that was NOT on the menu.  Sometimes I have countered the offer and the provider accepted.  In those situations, its a true negotiation, not a request for a discount.  

 
I note that you have multi-hour incentives built into your rate structure, so no need for a hobbyist to negotiate that point with you, unless he wants a time block that is NOT listed already.  If its already listed on the menu, then asking for a discount brings nothing in the way of a benefit to the provider, so its just some cheapskate haggling, not a real negotiation.  It seems a lot of the so-called hot-shot businessmen here don't know this simple premise.  Your point was clear and concise, and cannot be easily refuted by anyone that knows how negotiation really works.  

"Not all of course, but I think for many asking to pay less is just the start of a power game that involves the client thinking a win comes from getting something the provider doesn't want to give. No wonder many providers have learned just not to deal with negotiators.  "

that.. yes. yes yes. It's a good screening tool. If you don't value me now we're not going to have fun. If its not going to be fun, I am not going to do it.  

See, if we are independent and to a large degree that's who we're talking about ,clients need to remember that not only are they choosing us, we're choosing them. WE're not so desperate that we will take anything. We can and do say no. So, while there are far more girls than every before, that's along with many more of us having a lot more options for financial independence.  

Last point, if all that and then you're still haggling you're doing it to someone in a bind. That's not just tacky is immoral.  You don't have to add a side of exploitation with your hobbying. You can leave it out and bring only mutual respect and your own dignity.

way to approach this topic.  You aren't asking for a discount, but you have opened the door for her to offer one without insulting her by asking.  Probably the most polite way to do this, IMO.  I have had this happen a few times when inquiring about extended sessions where there was no price listed.  I will not pay the same rate for the third or fourth hour as I will for the first, but rather than negotiate, I just tell her that's more than my budget.  If she counters with something more reasonable, or doesn't, I'm okay either way.  There's always other options.  I like girls that build in an incentive, such as $400/1 hr, $700/2 hrs, $900/3 hrs, etc.  Extended sessions usually involve a lot of, pardon the expression, "down time" so its easy extra revenue for the provider.  If a girl with a rate of $400 quotes me 3 hours at $1200, I will just pass.  If she wants to counter with something else, that's on her, but I will not be the one to propose it.  Sometimes, the best negotiating strategy is to let them see your back as you're walking away, but I'm not going to insult them by asking for less than their quote.  

I remember one of my bookies laughing about the dumb gringos paying the "ridiculously overpriced" rate of about $30 at the Del Rey back then.

 
Actually in Latin America, you are more likely to get lousy service by being a "sucker" than a negotiator. The mentality of many Ticas is that is if you are too stupid to negotiate a fair rate then you are just a dumb gringo who won't care if she doesn't give you her best either.