There are many things I've thought you were or weren't over the years GaG, but I was reasonably sure that you were pragmatic, evidently I was wrong.
To be perfectly clear, I value my speedway card more than a mancard, my speedway card gets me a free coffee every 7th one. My mancard, well I can assure you that I did not give that up years ago, I've never had one, because there is no such thing. Let's examine this for a moment, a non quantifiable, non verifiable, fairytale set of rules made up by some unknown, unseen entity. Sounds a lot like religion and god, neither of which I believe in. If there is a 35 mile/hr speed limit on a road and I drive 40 miles/hr on that stretch of road, I can be pulled over, written a ticket which will absolutely cost me some sum of money. If I break a mancard law, nothing happens, absolutely fucking nothing. If you wish to believe in fairy tales, that's on you, leave me out of it, and by all means don't be embarrassed for me. I live by simple rules, respect people, until they give me a reason not to. I don't live my life by your fairy tale rules, not now, not yesterday, not tomorrow, not ever. Thank you for your response and advise in the past concerning navigating the Costa Rica scene. Please feel free to NOT read, or reply to my posts from here on out. You can take your coveted mancard, roll it up and shove it up your ass. And guess what? You won't feel a thing, because there is no such thing. I gave, nor give, any woman power over me (not since my divorce anyway). I chose to spend time with an amazing woman, based upon her reviews which were spot on. I had a great time, one of the best sessions I've had. Upon preparing to leave our session she stated a peculiar discounted rate for return customers. My thoughts were along the lines of what PS said earlier, that she likes longer dates for whatever reason and heavily discounts them accordingly, but I wanted to be certain. Apparently she misspoke and when I brought it up in my text she must have thought I was one of those haggling assholes and dropped me like a hot potato, perhaps from her perspective rightfully so. I don't blame myself, other than if I had my druthers I would have simply paid her posted 2h rate instead of asking her about her discount, and continued getting some of the best head I've ever had, for a rate which I can more than afford and am willing to spend. It's not at all my fault that she misspoke, and I heard what I heard. But often when something sounds too good to be true, it is. In this case, it most certainly was.critical and basic. It is never acceptable to make a mistake with the envelope. That is common knowledge and a legitimate expectation. That said, I have an interesting personal situation. I don't want to make this more complicated than it needs to be, but I want to solicit and understand other perspectives. Here is my situation:
After reading several advertisements, I found one that was intriguing. I reached out to the lady via e-mail and provided her with information that would allow her to screen me so that we could set up an appointment. Within a few days, she let me know that I was good to go and to go ahead and set up an appointment. I then re-read the information that I had previously skimmed on her website. I also clicked on all of the links from her TER profile. Briefly:
I intend to set up a 2 hour appointment. Her hourly rate is $500/hour. But her two hour rate varies depending on the link/site that you visit. TER has her 2-hour rate at $1,000. Her personal website has her hourly rate at $800. FYI - that website does not distinguish between "touring rates" or anything like that --- it just provides 1 set of rates. Then her P411 profile lists her 2-hour rate at $700 (not because of a discount to P411 members). In short, 3 different sites and 3 different rates. In addition, her website says something to the effect of "if you have to ask me what my rate is, then you might be looking in the wrong place" --- or something to that effect.
I do my best to be a model customer and get it right. But I am curious to see how others would handle this situation? If anyone has a classy way to handle the situation, I would appreciate your thoughts. Right now, my default is to not not discuss this topic and to simply go with the highest rate. Still, I can see how someone might feel justified in selecting any one of the following options:
1) Pay the highest rate. Don't even bring this topic up. There is no way to bring it up and not look cheap.
2) Pay the rate used on the site that you book the appointment through. If you don't have a P411 account, then this should provide a reason to get one.
3) Pay the lowest rate. Print out the website that has this rate and include that printout in the envelope to ensure that there is no possible misunderstanding.
4) Ask the question. Tell her that she has 3 different rates on 3 different sites and ask her which rate applies. Take the risk of offending her given the language on her website.
What would you do and why? Has this ever happened to anyone? What did you do? Is one of these options always considered more proper than the others or does it depend on the situation?
Again, #1 is my default option.
Thanks.
Sorry only saw the first part of the question and not the follow through. You're being a bit too true to your name and over thinking this. Go with the rate that you first saw her/screened under. Others on here are going to disagree with the multiple rate structures, but noticing she has a P411 discount after the set up and asking for it is a bit tacky to me. If you didn't find her that way, then why ask for the discount? If you are happy with the service you received, you can always tip her. However, it would be poor form to ask for a refund if you paid the higher rate, did not like the service, and used her divergent rate structures as a reason to request it.
-- Modified on 5/14/2017 4:56:57 PM
My advice is to send a pleasant e-mail, saying that you are confused, stating why, and asking what the correct rate is.
In my experience some girls get a new website and don't take an old website down.
Seems better than paying the highest rate posted.
Also, if you do it well in advance of the session, it shouldn't detract from the session.
That certainly would not be my default option.
I would say the p411 option is the most accurate. I am not just saying that because I am a cheap bastard trying to get the lowest rate. I am saying it because the provider has control of her p411 profile and she is in charge of what's on there.
TER profiles are often incorrect because they are set by the first reviewer and do not always get updated.
While her personal website should be accurate, some girls don't update their websites, and some don't even have control of their websites. Some personal websites aren't even really theirs. There are scraper sites which pull info off of the internet and create websites for providers that the provider has no control over.
Her most current ad should be accurate but there are also many scraper ad sites, so I go back to my statement that p411 is the most accurate in this instance.
Of course you can always just ask her, and that is what I would do. Instaed of asking "what is your rate?" Ask her "Is the rate on p411 correct?"
Or you can be a BSU and go to your default.
This is her problem, not yours, so just ask. She may not even realize that she is advertising disparate rates.
If she’s apologetic and offers the lowest published rate, it means you found someone who truly values her clients. If she gets pissy, she is not someone you would wish to see at any price.
To me, a gentleman is someone who is pleasant, fun and relaxed, not someone who acts like they’re seeking an audience with the Pope.
....IF she is offended move on and consider yourself lucky. You just dodged a flake.
I fucked up, with a lady whom I wanted to see many times.
Our first date, 400/h everything went perfect, she was amazing, I told her before leaving that I wanted to see her again, but the next time for 2h, her 2h rate on her website is 700. She said "well for repeat clients, I charge 500/h for 2h". As I'm walking to my car, I'm thinking "this math just doesn't add up", I might anticipate the second hour at 1/2 the first, but this math was confusing me. So, about 3 weeks later I text her to schedule a 2h date, she accepts. The day before our date, I ask her in text if that was truly her 2h rate for return clients as I wanted to be sure to stuff the envelope correctly. Crickets chirping!!! Then she texts back the day of and says her flight was cancelled.
Of course I know what happened, and I'm banging my head against the wall. I'd have gladly paid her posted 2h rate , and I wish I would have. I wasn't trying to get anything over on her, I don't negotiate rates, I was just going by what she told me, in person. I regret that entire situation, she is an amazing woman, whom I would've enjoyed seeing many times.
If it's someone you really want to see, you might want to find out for sure, else it's likely you won't get a second chance. I sure wish I had a second chance.
I pride myself on my personal hygiene and envelope filling skills . These are two things which typically translate into great fun for me on a date.
It's only money, I'll go to work next week and make more.
fucked up. Since you are a repeat client, there is no reason why she would not discuss/clarify the rate for you. Perhaps when she first told you about the $500 rate, you could have asked her at what point someone is considered a "repeat" client. I have done that when I was told a better rate for multiple hours, where I will generally phrase it "How often to I need to see you to qualify for that rate?" Then she can put more limitations if she wants and If I'm not good with it, I can pay the posted rate and pass on the discount.
and it seems that I was quite clear that I did not get that second session, because I asked about the rate which she told me in person, instead of just paying the rate she posted, thus I hadn't yet made it to repeat client status.
There are things more important than money, and my dumb ass let 200 come between future great times with a super sexy woman, especially considering that when I told her I wanted to see her again, for 2h, I knew what the posted rate was. Then she told me of this repeat client rate, and as I've been taught, if something sounds too good to be true, it probably is. My mistake was not clarifying that before leaving.
Live and learn.
I don't put words in your mouth, I'd appreciate the same respect from you.
There was a third option, besides paying the posted rate or asking before the session. Put the amount you spoke about in person in the envelope but bring the full amount with you just in case. Then ask in person if you had the discount right. That way she won't just blow you off, at least. I've done it that way before.
Something's unclear to me, about the "too good to be true" aspect. Do you think you misheard her? Because if she actually said what you think she said, then it's her fault you sought to confirm, really. Though, as I said, you could have waited to bring it up in person.
Some providers don't like to talk about rates at all, some won't do it over email or text. I've never had a problem bringing it up, myself. If she was that put off by you asking, maybe she's not that great a provider.
when she told you about the $500 even though you were not yet a "repeat" customer? If that's the case, yes, you blew it, because she was telling you to come back and get the $500 rather than saying it was a discount for THAT session.
If you're not going to bother reading the post, kindly don't reply, it illustrates how unintelligent you are.
I was just giving you a chance to adopt my version and look a little less stupid about how you handled it. It shows you no good deed goes unpunished. With 70+ reviews, you shouldn't be making rookie mistakes. Of course, you're averaging about one new girl a month over the life of your review history, so at that volume maybe you're forgetting how to do things since the last girl?
I knew a provider who had a published rate of 400 for 1 hour, 500 for 2 hrs, and 1000 for 12 hours. (Overnight or all day) why? She enjoyed longer dates. Whatever she had to do to prep for the 1 hr date is the same she does for the 2 hr date.
I know another provider who had a rate of 500 for 1 hour and 600 for 2. Both of these ladies had these rates published on their websites. These were not "specials" or discounts for regulars. I have seen other ladies who do offer occasional specials, and discounts for repeats. I have been the recipient of many of those.
So you think the math didn't make sense. I wouldn't have thought twice about her offer. However I would have reconfirmed it prior to making the date, not after scheduling then waiting until the day before to confirm the rate. In any case, she offered it. She should have at least replied to your question one way or the other. Going crickets, then cancelling is unprofessional on her part, not "being cheap" on your part.
-- Modified on 5/14/2017 7:20:14 PM
Somehow, no matter how BSC a hooker acts, they still manage to find a way to blame themselves.
Sorry Russ, but you just earned yourself a boatload of BSU points. Ghosting on a repeat client is on her, not you. How hookers have managed to convince men that their own irrational behavior is somehow the man's fault is still beyond me.
I don't give a fuck what you or anyone else thinks about me, nor do I give a fuck about your meaningless labels.
You all used to call me a mangina, it took me some time to figure out what that meant. Now that I know, I'm proud to carry that as it simply means that I'm compassionate.
BSU would imply that I sucked up to this provider, which is a ridiculous assumption considering that I didn't get to see her a second time. The only thing I cared about with the entire scenario is that I didn't get sucked off a second time, if I needed to suck up to do so, I would have.
So please, continue to call me a BSU, if being one gets my cock sucked, then I'm all in.
No quarter asked nor given.
I see I hit a nerve, which I assume means you know I am right.
She went BSC on you and you blame yourself. I would demand that you surrender your man card, but we all know you gave that up years ago.
Why do you guys give these women such power over you? You are actually kicking yourself for asking for clarification about the rate of a woman you have already been intimate with, and you did it with HER best interests at heart. Just how the fuck do you make yourself out to be the bad guy over this? Dude, you are embarrassing yourself here, or at least I am embarrassed for you. I have already made it quite clear that if I EVER start exhibiting behavior such as yours that I expect and demand that one of my friends "put me down" for my own fucking good. lmao
I could not care any less about such nonsense, it makes me no more money, contributes nothing to my life, liberty or happiness. So, it's as useless to me as tits on a bull.
All I do care about is getting my cock sucked by a beautiful woman who is really good at sucking cock, and not having to settle for a member of the OTHFB club.
If it makes you feel better about yourself to try to insult me or pass your meaningless acronyms to me then by all means, have at it. I hope for your sake it's worth the time and energy. As for me at this moment, I'm watching an experiment, killing time, so this banter is actually filling up some dead time and about all it's worth.
Possessing a "man card" in this forum especially, is of no importance. Getting sucked and fucked by hot women is all I care about. We are all in agreement that we pay for it either way, I simply prefer to pay directly and forego the bullshit.
There are many things I've thought you were or weren't over the years GaG, but I was reasonably sure that you were pragmatic, evidently I was wrong.
To be perfectly clear, I value my speedway card more than a mancard, my speedway card gets me a free coffee every 7th one. My mancard, well I can assure you that I did not give that up years ago, I've never had one, because there is no such thing.
Let's examine this for a moment, a non quantifiable, non verifiable, fairytale set of rules made up by some unknown, unseen entity. Sounds a lot like religion and god, neither of which I believe in.
If there is a 35 mile/hr speed limit on a road and I drive 40 miles/hr on that stretch of road, I can be pulled over, written a ticket which will absolutely cost me some sum of money. If I break a mancard law, nothing happens, absolutely fucking nothing.
If you wish to believe in fairy tales, that's on you, leave me out of it, and by all means don't be embarrassed for me. I live by simple rules, respect people, until they give me a reason not to. I don't live my life by your fairy tale rules, not now, not yesterday, not tomorrow, not ever. Thank you for your response and advise in the past concerning navigating the Costa Rica scene. Please feel free to NOT read, or reply to my posts from here on out.
You can take your coveted mancard, roll it up and shove it up your ass. And guess what? You won't feel a thing, because there is no such thing.
I gave, nor give, any woman power over me (not since my divorce anyway). I chose to spend time with an amazing woman, based upon her reviews which were spot on. I had a great time, one of the best sessions I've had. Upon preparing to leave our session she stated a peculiar discounted rate for return customers. My thoughts were along the lines of what PS said earlier, that she likes longer dates for whatever reason and heavily discounts them accordingly, but I wanted to be certain. Apparently she misspoke and when I brought it up in my text she must have thought I was one of those haggling assholes and dropped me like a hot potato, perhaps from her perspective rightfully so.
I don't blame myself, other than if I had my druthers I would have simply paid her posted 2h rate instead of asking her about her discount, and continued getting some of the best head I've ever had, for a rate which I can more than afford and am willing to spend. It's not at all my fault that she misspoke, and I heard what I heard. But often when something sounds too good to be true, it is. In this case, it most certainly was.
Tactfully explain the reason for the confusion (a very legitimate reason) and ask for the rate.
That some reviewers on TER that set up the initial profile for a provider will put how much they paid rather than what the girl's advertised rate is, so the tip is included. Unless someone corrects it (and the girl has no incentive to do it), I'm guessing many guys seeing the girl will just pay what it says on TER. I would caution against discussing rates with a provider prior to the first appointment. That makes you look like LE, and is the point where the girl may stop talking to you. My suggestion is to go with the rate that is on her OWN website. If she doesn't have one, then go with a rate posted in a CURRENT ad on CV or some other advertising site.
-- Modified on 5/14/2017 6:11:21 PM
I always say you should never discuss rates along with sex acts, and you shouldn't discuss rates when a providers rates are very clear. However if she has different rates all over the place, then It is far better to ask her what her current 1 hr (2 hr, etc.) rate is, or better yet to ask if the rate on abc site is the correct rate, than it is to show up with the wrong amount bevauseyou made an assumption.
If a lady has different rates posted all day vet the place AND gives you "crickets" or attitude when you ask her to clarify, why would you want to see her anyway?
Ask. Something like this happened to me twice. I didn't end up seeing them (not because of rate confusion)
First time, it was an escort I'd already seen. Her website had a new rate structure, $500 for an hour. I'd previously seen her at $300 an hour and her website said "past pricing would be honored for regular patrons." I'd only seen her once, so am I technically a regular patron? Her newsletter said that she would discount $100 off her normal price for new clients. There's 3 different amounts I could conceivably pay. I set the appointment, and then asked her if my rate was the previous rate I paid or her new rate. Looking back on it, I probably should've confirmed the rate setting the appointment. She said since I hadn't seen her in over a year (she was based in New York and moved to Vegas and I live in DC), she I would be eligible for the $100 discount. Ended up not seeing her, traffic made her late to her hotel for my appointment and I already had plans for the rest of the weekend so we weren't able to reschedule.
The second time, 2 different websites had 2 different rates by the same provider I'd never seen. I was up in Philly for the weekend. I really don't remember the rates, but I think it was one site had $350, another site had $300 for an appointment before 10 AM. More expensive rate structure for after 10 AM. After screening, I emailed asking what her rate was because one site had one rate, other site had another rate, and I linked to both sites. She informed me it was the more expensive rate, and that the other site was old and she would delete it soon, which she did. I emailed again asking if the before 10 AM rate is just for an hour, or could it be used for 90+ minutes, as long as I was out before 10 AM. She replied that it's just for the hour. Sent an email requesting a date, time and length, didn't hear back. Followed up a week later, no response. Oddly enough, the day after when I wanted to schedule my appointment, she texts me (we'd only communicated by email but I'm single, I don't care who texts me) that she's available. I hadn't heard from her in 2 weeks so I'd already made plans with someone else.
Because I usually see girls only on business trips, I don't typically have envelopes handy. So I usually just put the wad of cash someplace where they can see. Is that a huge faux pas?
Also, I typically ignore various member discounts. I figure it's more appreciated if I just pay the highest rate. I assume they count the money while I'm in the shower.
The OP is using "envelope" to mean the rate you pay. Envelopes aren't critical, generally speaking, though some girls are particular.
Misunderstanding, but these three websites for you list 3 different rates for your time. Can you please tell me which one is correct? Thanks.
(You know she's going to say it's the highest rate.)
I dunno about sending an e-mail inquiring about the rate (aka #4) if you have never seen her before. As others have suggested, you might scare her off. I suspect that after you hit the send button you might hear, well, nothing ... chirp, chirp, chirp. Time waster. Especially if she is high end, which seems to be the case. I would love to hear from the ladies on this one. No pussy for you.
And if you know the answer to the question before you ask it, then don't ask it. No upside, all downside. If you send that e-mail, then, chirp, chirp, chirp ... no pussy for you.
Here is the proper answer for anyone who actually works for their money.
You book her through P 411, pay her the $700 rate that she asks for and then if you have a guilty conscience about paying a woman almost $6 a minute to be with you, give her a tip after the session.
and for those of you with no spines who don't want to look "cheap" keep in mind that paying $700 plus a $300 tip makes you look generous. Simply paying the highest rate you can find makes you look clueless. I already knew you were clueless so it's no surprise what your "default setting" is. I am a bit surprised at just how many other guys on this board are equally stupid. Where the fuck is OTM when you need him?
Didn't I say the same thing as you (as usual)?
and that competition is even more hotly contested than SPOTY, with a lot of crossover of course.
But until now I didn't post on this thread because the OP was so fucking stupid. So there's that.
but I'll lay a thousand to one the OP is still stupid.
Here is the proper answer for anyone who actually works for their money.
You book her through P 411, pay her the $700 rate that she asks for and then if you have a guilty conscience about paying a woman almost $6 a minute to be with you, give her a tip after the session.
and for those of you with no spines who don't want to look "cheap" keep in mind that paying $700 plus a $300 tip makes you look generous. Simply paying the highest rate you can find makes you look clueless. I already knew you were clueless so it's no surprise what your "default setting" is. I am a bit surprised at just how many other guys on this board are equally stupid. Where the fuck is OTM when you need him?
It is NOT illegal or out of line to ask about her rates for "company" or "companionship." Simply saying you saw her rates on P411 and asking if that's the rate for the time wanted is perfectly OK.
Why do the hoes fish the rates? For the same reason some hookers have two personas at different rates for the same service. They are devious little hustlers.
This thread and many others are proof that I was quite correct when I said that some (maybe it is most) mongers have given up their man card. Fishing the rates reels in balless weasels who will pay the higher rate due to their own self esteem issues.
You are assuming that he has a P411 account. And if he doesn't that he will be able to get one in time to book her.
Since the OP is the one who brought up that he saw her rate on p411, it's not a bad assumption to make that he is a p411 member. Non members can see some profiles on p411 but many are blocked, and I would think since the OP brought up the p411 rate, that he probably is a member.
Secondly, he mentioned on a post on the newbie board a few weeks ago that he was joining p411.
You should have said, in your initial contact, 'Hey, I saw your ad on P412, let's get together." Now you have to go with default 1. Asking about pricing is risky business, even if she has three different ones.
I always confirmed the rate, because I was paranoid. I don't do that anymore, but I feel free to ask if there's any confusion. Not once have I ever been turned down or ignored after asking.
I find it more appropriate to leave what I'm sure is the correct and acceptable amount. I also have money in my pocket.
In 15 years I've only had one misunderstanding and thst was with an ATF over what I thought was tge agreed upon rate for PSE. I corrected that when we met a few days later.
I've left on two occasions without paying but both times, it was a laughable offense with regulars that knew me well enough to know I wasn't ripping them off. I immediately returned to the room to correct the matter. And once, an ATF left without the envelope and returned to collect that which she forgot.
Shit happens when you do this 100s of times. It just better be with someone that knows you VERY WELL.
Make that VERY VERY WELL.
Why didn't you just go by her 2 hour $700 on the website? You said that she said for repeat clients it's $500 an hour for two hours. That's a grand! I would have said eff that! I will give the $700 for 2 hours as her website says! I do not see why this was a problem and I certainly would not have asked! It seems that repeat clients are being taken lol in the good way and bad way lol! 
Why even make a possible misunderstanding with her by not letting her know ahead of time which rate you are going by? She may get mad if she thought you were paying a certain rate and then opens it up later to see less with a printout.
I had this happen when I contacted a lady. What I did was book directly from the site I was going off of and I mentioned in my email/pm through P411 that I had seen the rate on P411... so I had no questions as far as that but she should let me know if there is a different website that refers to a more current rate if that was no longer acceptable.
I also ask new clients what website they are referring to when contacting me, so I know which he is referring to for his information. My rates are the same overall on various sites but ever so often they are not. If I personally want to make sure they are paying the proper rate, I simply say "refer to my P411 acct for current rates" etc.
I would choose the safest, the highest. But that's on me. Each woman is different when it comes to discussing rates. Tread softly. If a provider chooses to talk to you when screening, it may be an opportunity dependent on the chemistry and rapport you develop on the call to get clarification.
I looked at a gals website last night and saw $400 in her Rates section and $300 in her About Me section. I know that's not what we're talking about hete but it's an example of how easy it is for things to get overlooked.
P411 shows how recent a gal was on the site, and that most lijely would be the rate is expect to bring. If the date went well, I might bring discrepancies on other sites to her attention.
The provider usually will provide you with at least 3 hours of OTC time for being so helpful.
LMAO ... right.
-- Modified on 5/15/2017 8:34:38 AM
A) since she has 3 different rates advertised she's clearly an idiot and I wouldn't go near her
B) In my email to a new lady I always state "2 hours for 800" or whatever.
When making an appointment, I always ask her to confirm the lowest rate I see posted! She will correct me if it is wrong, and if I don't like the answer I can always cancel saying, sorry your rate posted on xyz was $X, I thought it was accurate. Who can blame a horny hobbyist for trying to stretch his dollars?
P411 requires providers to have their lowest rates advertised on there. Not saying everyone does, but I am saying what the rule is and it is to be current.
If you book through P411, there should be no question in her mind of what rate you are paying because it would be common sense that you are going by said rate on P411.
If you want to play it safe because you are all worried she may somehow misunderstand, then mention in the pm that you are contacting her off her P411 profile.