How is it possible, in a post 9/11 world, does a man hop the WH fence, open an UNLOCKED door and make it all the way into the East room before being stopped?
Similarly, how does a nut with a rifle, penetrate the secret service umbrella of protection around our congressman today and allow him to get off shot after shot after shot without being stopped MUCH earlier?
ISIS, or some other like minded/inspired group, is going to show up one day branding a dozen AK-47's and maybe a few grenades and we would have been powerless to stop them from entering our White House or killing half the congress today.
Seriously, what is going on? Have we not learned anything?
The guy had an assault rifle. From what I heard in the news reports, he did not get that many shots off before Capitol PD took him out. It was CPD that was providing security - Secret Service was not there according to the reports I've seen.
The problem is that there is no way of foreseeing and controlling crazy old guys with guns and an axe to grind. You cannot legislate human behavior.
So is your answer more stringent gun laws? That's not exactly on the GOP platform is it?
WILMINGTON, N.C. — Donald J. Trump on Tuesday appeared to raise the possibility that gun rights supporters could take matters into their own hands if Hillary Clinton is elected president and appoints judges who favor stricter gun control measures.
Repeating his contention that Mrs. Clinton wanted to abolish the right to bear arms, Mr. Trump warned at a rally here that it would be “a horrible day” if Mrs. Clinton were elected and got to appoint a tiebreaking Supreme Court justice.
“If she gets to pick her judges, nothing you can do, folks,” Mr. Trump said, as the crowd began to boo. He quickly added: “Although the Second Amendment people — maybe there is, I don’t know.”
Any connection to what happened today in VA.?
“As we were standing here this morning, a gunman walked up to the fence line and just began to shoot. I was standing at home plate and he was in the third base line,” Bishop said. “He had a rifle that was clearly meant for the job of taking people out, multiple casualties, and he had several rounds and magazines that he kept unloading and reloading.”
He said they were like "sitting ducks." The United States of America cant provide better security then to have its congressmen exposed like "sitting ducks?"
How does a guy with a rifle make it all the way to the fence line, just off third base with a rifle in his hands??? There is no perimeter? No pat down zone? How does he have time to load and unload?
Again, imagine if it wasn't a 66 year old man acting alone, but 10 well armed and well trained terrorists with AK-47's?
They would have caused massive carnage and dozens and dozens of deaths and your only response would have been "there is no way to foresee that terrorists would want to kill our congressmen" and "you cannot legislate human behavior?" Really?
I think the point of Jack's post was not how to keep guns out of the hands of these wackos, but rather how do we let people get so close to officials. The White House grounds breech is one thing, but I don't know what you can do about today - he could not access the field due to a locked gate so there was some sort of a secure perimeter.
Not to be glib but with no perimeter security he probably parked 20 feet from the perimeter fence..... you can see the park on E Monroe avenue in Alexandria and there is a dead end street on the third base side where he was....with numerous parking spots.
Now they can blame Russia.
Here's just one. Some of these guys doing the supposed protecting are just glorified security guards; many of whom have ADHD. They find it extremely difficult to concentrate on anything that doesn't move rapidly: "Squirrel!" Let's be honest. Even peace officers; even the most highly trained, dedicated and upstanding are not compensated to the level of their training and responsibility. If they aren't, most of these other so called security foot-soldiers aren't either. I think a good example is reflected in some of the stories coming out about how airline passengers are being treated. Most well training, responsible, moral people will not work for the wages being paid. But, the airlines figure it pays them to pay as low as wages as possible, and pay the legal fees if anything goes wrong. It's much like with infrastructure. Not much attention is focused on it until a bridge collapses, or a dam bursts, and a lot of people are killed. Then there comes the weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth. In the next moment comes all the finger pointing! 
... take away Medicaid and Food Stamps from all the rednecks in Red states + kick 10 to 15 million off their health care. These lawmakers are playing with people's lives and food on the table. A new CBO report says up to 1 million jobs will be gone with the proposed GOP Healthcare Law.
...Steve Scalise is the Majority Whip and the third highest ranking member of the GOP.
How does it happen? It happens because cops stink at their job. If they're not busy eating donuts, they're profiling blacks in order to kill them and then put a throwaway piece in their waistband.
Thanks for playing both the stupid card and hateful card yet again. Once again you are sitting there with one of a kind but thinking you have a royal flush.
...jumping the White House fence and getting all the way to the East Room. I explained how he could do it. I've interacted with more cops than anyone on this board, including YOU! I know what I'm talking about.
You thought there was a "...secret service umbrella of protection around our congressman today..." Shows how much you know. Maybe you should "wait until all the facts are known" before you post your usual drivel.
I dont need you to tell me how the guy got into the East room dummy. He hopped a fence and went through an OPEN and UNGUARDED door. Piss poor security.
And you would have interacted with more cops than me how exactly? How could you possibly know that?
Your knowledge of cops would fill Laffy's pea for a brain.
Nice touch disparaging those two heroes yesterday. I guess people who jump into harm's way to save others lives isn't your cup of tea. lol
Yep you REALLY know cops! Bwahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!
...jumping the White House fence and getting all the way to the East Room. I explained how he could do it. I've interacted with more cops than anyone on this board, including YOU! I know what I'm talking about.
You thought there was a "...secret service umbrella of protection around our congressman today..." Shows how much you know. Maybe you should "wait until all the facts are known" before you post your usual drivel.
How could you possibly know you have interacted with more cops than anyone on this board?
Are you including P&R posters with relatives in law enforcement?
I can think of numerous scenarios that would easily fit your profile.
Top three..
1. You've been working with Los Angeles LE as their most trusted informant since you were a teen.
2. You are undercover LE.
3.Cops visit your pawn shop daily to look for stolen merchandise you bought yesterday.
I'm going with #1.
The more you "act" like the most informed guy in town the more your ignorance is exposed.
In fact, if Majority Whip Scalise had not been at the practice, there would have been no Capitol Police there as well. My guess is that policies will be changed so that whenever there is a group of Congress members or Senators out at a function, there will be mandatory security provided. It is likely too cumbersome to provide each member with round-the-clock personal security but some steps will surely be taken.
So in the state of Virginia:
1-No background checks
2-No licensing
3-No registration
4-No permit req’d for concealed carry of long guns
5-Open carry long guns & handguns
-- Modified on 6/14/2017 6:37:03 PM
Your hero James T. Hodgkinson is from Illinois and it has been reported that he obtained/purchased the guns in Illinois, therefore he had to comply with those laws. So what does the Virginia gun laws have to do with anything.
Now do you really think the carry laws of a state (strict or not) are going to stop a criminal from carrying , once he has the guns.
Also when he drove from Illinois to Virginia (I'm not 100% sure but) he most likely violated the laws of the states he drove through.
Do think your friend James T. Hodgkinson cared ?
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In TC30 We Distrust
-- Modified on 6/15/2017 12:45:36 AM
In states with the lethal combination of open carry, no assault weapon ban, and no high capacity magazine ban, it is not only possible but easier than getting a library card. A bad guy with an AW and high capacity mag can walk up to any public park visibly armed and no one can stop him.
Sure, after he fires 50 or 60 bullets and clears the field, maybe a “good guy with a gun” can take him out, if he is not cowering in the dugout. By all accounts I’ve heard so far, even the highly trained capitol police on the scene were outgunned but still managed to bring him down at tragic cost to themselves.
Or maybe Good Guy with a Gun No. 2 appears on the scene and thinks Good Guy with the Gun No, 1 is the shooter and shoots him. It is just a matter of time before this kind of cross -fire carnage happens.
How disappointing to hear some of these clueless Republican Congressmen puff out their chest and say this shooting was tragic but “I’m a believer in Second Amendment rights” as if the Second Amendment has anything to do with this. We know from the court decisions upholding the New York Safe Act that you can ban assault weapons and high capacity mags – no Second Amendment protection there.
Are these bans foolproof? Of course not. Do they at least reduce the mass public shootings? Count the number of mass pubic shootings using assault guns in New York since the Safe Act was enacted to find the answer.
Because even as you admit, they aren't fool proof. Let's stipulate this guy would have had the gun pre-ban and never gave it up, stole it, bought it on black market, etc etc etc
The reporting as of now is that there were only 2 capitol police on the scene, both armed with only hand guns.
I am asking you a very simple question.
Is that anywhere near adequate security for the risk this event posed i.e. dozens of U.S. congressman all gathered together at the same time, in the same place, outdoors, with NO perimeter and NO pat downs or check points?
...has been open too long, violent behavior has permeated american society so deeply that many of us will never live to see the day of improvement & blaming firearms accomplishes nothing because we can't do anything about them. Besides firearms are just a tool to get a violent job done much like an impact wrench is for a mechanic or a nail gun is for a carpenter. There are so many wonderful compassionate behavior examples of people helping others better themselves in life & giving what they don't need when they can it's indeed sad when a terrible event like this seems to overshadow that. As far as extra security patrols I support that effort but it's like "wack-a-mole" just when you make one group safe the nuts go on to another, we need leadership that gives this nation a positive example of how to treat each other not some mean spirited tweeter.
Always have
They encourage and defend any act of violence in the name of the lib religion
Kinda like radical Islamists
It's what they do
They don't much like it when the good guys shoot back though
And that's gonna happen more.
You ask for "civility" AFTER you insult the President
Gutless lib pussy
Yeah, we ALL oughta listen to the likes of you
violent extremists and love mass murderers. OK. If you says to cupcake. Just trying to wrap my mind around such an awesome leap of logic.
, that Congressmen and their staffers regularly play outdoor volleyball on the courts near the Lincoln Memorial, that they run in the Georgetown 10 K, that they play pick up ball on the outdoor courts in Adams Morgan? Walk down the National Mall on a spring evening after work and see them pour out the door to play soccer, Frisbee, BB, and whatever.
You can’t set up a perimeter and install heavy security to protect these kind of soft targets. It would cost a fortune and simply move the bad guys to a less protected group.
This is the first mass shooting attack on Republicans I have heard of. The more numerous conventional shootings are by disgruntled employees in the workplace as happened in SF today. Or loonies just shooting police officers without warning. By your reasoning, all employers should install security. So you are asking the wrong question and posing a completely unrealistic and largely useless remedy in response to an outlier event.
You don’t go by the group- you go by the weapons. We’ll never stop a bad guy who wants to kill somebody – but we ought to be able to reduce the lethality of these guys.
And is it really asking too much to have SOME under cover cops and maybe SS mingled through out? Is it asking too much to have SOMEONE with a semi-automatic rifle on site? Anyone? Is it really asking too much to funnel people through a corridor to get to the field so security can check everyone out first? Of course not.
We had two cops. With hand guns. And guess what? THEY wouldn't have been there if Scalise wasn't there! it would have been a massacre as no one had any means to defend themselves.
Look, I have to get patted down by security when I go to a basketball game, football, etc but we cant provide decent security for people ISIS would LOVE to take out?
And remember this wasn't some well trained commando that broke through a number of defenses of ours that damn near decimated the R house...this was a nut bag, over the hill, out of shape, angry 66 year old living out of his van for fks sake!
Are you really telling me we cant even stop, or subdue MUCH sooner, someone like that, while he was holding a long gun, out in the open, during the day, when there wasn't a large crowd to hide among? If we cant, then we are doomed.
I am willing to bet you different security measures will now be in place for things similar to this in the future.
Rethink this one.
I’m going to give you every security measure you have listed.
And now I’m going to put on my bulletproof vest, sling my assault rifle across one shoulder, put a second 50 caliber clip over my other shoulder, and stick a Glock in my belt just in case. Then I’m going to walk right through your “ perimeter” and sit on a bench watching the game.
No, neither the Capitol Police nor local police can stop me, or legally even ask to see my carry permit, or if I’m a felon. Only the Secret Service can trump state open carry laws, and only with respect to persons they are authorized to protect (not Congressmen or staffers) or at National Security events (don’t think DHS will designate a baseball game as a NSE, do you?).
At some point, I’m going to open fire and mow down 40 or 50 of the ball players and crowd which would only take a few minutes.
WAIT, JACK, YOU WIN THE ARGUMENT bc your security guys would shoot BEFORE I could use the SECOND 50 bullet clip. Under your leadership and planning, I have been “subdued much sooner.”
Only 50 are dead- not a hundred.
On a completely separate topic, I am sorry to inform you, Jack, that your application for a job at the Department of Homeland Security has been….
-- Modified on 6/15/2017 4:40:31 PM
1) It wasn't a .50 cal. It was a .762 assault rifle.
2) He wasn't in DC. He was in Alexandria, VA.
There unlike VA D.C. Police could stop you with a 50 cal.
-- Modified on 6/16/2017 2:41:31 AM
The rifle the congressional shooter used is not a .762 it is in fact a 7.62mm assault rifle.
He also had a 9mm hand gun.
If you are going to correct someone your correction should be correct.
Instead of being man enough to admit you are wrong you will whine and cry using the excuse that it was a typo. Them you will engage in immature name calling and insults, which by the way do not hurt me one bit. Then as the pretender you will in some way pretend to win.
Hurry, hurry, hurry jake reply as fast as you can…….and speaking of you being wrong, I’m not hiding from your comments ….care to take another lame guess as to why I say that? Be you do not get it right…..ha ha ha
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In jaketheptretender We Distrust
In the attack on the Congressmen in Virginia. That puts me about 1,567,892,435 mistakes behind you..
You're welcome.
At Swallowpee The Gerbil Abuser We Laugh
Hurry, hurry, swallowpee reply as fast as you can!
BWAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHahahahahahahahaha!!
-- Modified on 6/16/2017 5:11:36 PM
-- Modified on 6/16/2017 5:31:00 PM
I specifically mentioned a corridor the guy would have passed through where a pat down would have taken place. Odd how you missed that.
And how exactly would an inexperienced, 66 year old nut get a "bulletproof vest, rifle across one shoulder, a second 50 caliber clip and a Glock" through the pat down?
And you also missed me saying I would have SS at an event like this so the open carry law would not apply.
So I ask again. Do you really think they wont enact some of the security measures I suggest for the next similar event?
No we aren't going to stop ISIS with 10 men with AK-47's but our congress, vulnerable and out in public en masse, should have netter protection than 2 cops with pea shooters.
no AW ban, and no large capacity mag ban, rather than Virginia. In a state with this lethal combination, Jack’s “we need more security” argument is unpersuasive.
Pay attention Timbow.
carrying a gun that large near that game would have been stopped and escorted out . They would have worried about his legal rights later.
-- Modified on 6/16/2017 3:11:53 AM