but more importantly, the "secret" actions of Obama and Trump are almost equivalent, I've "justified" nothing. Both decisions (by Trump and Obama) were quite stupid, but that's a far cry from the characterization being made by Trump's detractors, especially when they are silent regarding Obama's worse actions because Obama had not yet been elected.
-- Modified on 5/30/2017 1:14:17 AM
snowflakes, libs, dems all beside themselves over the unproven Kushner backchannel move. But say nothing - and said nothing at the time - when their savior made same overtures to Iran. We all know the result was funding Iran's nuclear ambitions. Hypocrisy at it worst?
http://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2014-12-31/inside-obamas-secret-outreach-to-russia
fucking gigantic yawn..
snowflakes, libs, dems all beside themselves over the unproven Kushner backchannel move. But say nothing - and said nothing at the time - when their savior made same overtures to Iran. We all know the result was funding Iran's nuclear ambitions. Hypocrisy at it worst?
http://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2014-12-31/inside-obamas-secret-outreach-to-russia
There is nothing wrong, secretive or underhanded about the Secretary of State meeting or conferring on matters of State with the Russian ambassador. Its called their jobs. There isn't anything wrong for the President to convene interagency working groups to study the problem and make recommendations about possible solutions. That's called his job. Sure they asked Kissinger to informally call his old buddy Putin and tell him to calm down on the invasions and encroachments of smaller countries, but is that also wrong?
The problem and huge difference with Kushner is that before Trump was even in office and before Kushner served any governmental function whatsoever, he wanted to open a private backchannel, not subject to governmental oversight or disclosure rules with an adversarial foreign government. Even now, Kushner is neither an elected official or cabinet appointee. He is merely an "advisor" to the President. The word for that is espionage. Another word for that is treason.
I think you just read the headline, which doesn't really match the article. Headlines are there to get you to read the article and aren't meant to be summaries of the article itself. You just jumped to a conclusion to fit the point you wanted to make.
That's right, BEFORE the 2008 election, DURING the campaign he started SECRET talks with the Iranians, by sending William Miller to Iran to start the now infamous negotiations.
Diplomatic relations. So they are not remotely similar. Plus kushner wanted to use the secure Russian system that our intelligence can't tap. Obama could only communicate with Iran by personal emissary.
You are profoundly wrong about this one.
Communicating in secret is 1 of 2 issues here. It is irrelevant whether that was by electronic encrypted messages that outsiders cannot read or by human courier carrying secret message pouches that outsiders cannot read. Secret is secret, regardless the mode.
Also, you ignored the other difference that Trump's actions were AFTER he was elected. Obama's was DURING the campaign. Spare me any "one President at a time" retort as we don't know the content. It's perfectly OK for a President elect to communicate with foreign leaders. Trump suspected he was being surveilled by Obama's admin. Now it turns out the FISA court has substantiated those fears with it's severe admonishment of the Obama admin.
As others have mentioned, we have no formal diplomatic relations with Iran, so the only way to communicate with them is via special courier. William Millers work was not secret and was fully disclosed to the then Bush State Dept. there was nothing "secret" about it other than it wasn't the subject of a press release afaik.
It is not uncommon for presidential candidates to gauge relations with foreign states to see what can be expected should the candidate be elected.
The difference with Kushner is that for the very first time in the history of the United States, a private citizen associated with a presidential candidate wanted to open a secret line of communication, not subject to governmental oversight, by contacting Russian intelligence, not the usual foreign office channels. In short, Kushner knowingly attempted to violate the Logan Act. Perhaps he did. Time will tell.
Of course the State Department certainly knew his was going. That does NOT mean they knew what he was discussing or transmitting. Was he accompanied by a State Department official 100% of the time? Did the State Dept. get copies of all the cables? I sincerely doubt you know the answers.
So you would normally be seen as backing off your first assertion that Kushner's "huge difference and problem" was that he made the contact before Trump was in office, but I see you've doubled down on treason and espionage with ZERO knowledge of same, even after you've now admitted communication is normal.
👍Why can't they understand this?
Their typical counter-argument is Obama ate a watermelon while in WH.
Not equal crimes, are they?🤣
The problem and huge difference with Kushner is that before Trump was even in office and before Kushner served any governmental function whatsoever, he wanted to open a private backchannel, not subject to governmental oversight or disclosure rules with an adversarial foreign government. Even now, Kushner is neither an elected official or cabinet appointee. He is merely an "advisor" to the President. The word for that is espionage. Another word for that is treason.