1- this is probably what it will take to restrict AR-15’s etc. from mentally ill people: wealthy Repub donors withholding donations unless/until we get serious about gun control:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/02/18/longtime-republican-donor-calls-for-new-gun-laws-vows-to-withhold-cash.html 2-so, I watched Fucking Repub Governor Rick Scott shortly after the shootings: “this is terrible, beyond terrible, hell I have 6 grandkids, I can’t imagine...” Maybe it’ll take one of these shootings to happen in a state where there’s a fucking Repub Governor on the take from the NRA - Scott got $3 million from the NRA. Maybe, doubtful, but, just maybe, if one of these pro-NRA governors has kids/relatives shot/killed he just might think about gun control. (Please don’t report me to the FBI - I ain’t remotely suggesting that I want a fucking pro-NRA governor’s relatives shot/killed. I’m saying metaphorically thatFucking Repubs will say/do anything for NRA contributions) 3- high school kids will protest: “If you don’t fix this Fucking Repubs NONE of us will EVER vote for you”. http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2018/02/17/students-teachers-planning-nationwide-walkout-protest-gun-control-inaction-students-fed-up-they-plan/348752002/ I’m hoping that either lack of Repub donors and/or kids protesting will make a tad of difference on guns. After all, I have grandkids who will be in kindergarten soon....
What law would you want passed that would have stopped this shooting?
-- Modified on 2/18/2018 8:50:49 PM
Oh, right. Thoughts and prayers. And donations to the NRA.
Here is an idea. Background checks all weapons purchases, at least a one month duration for the check to take place. Mandatory interviews with those who interact with the individual - in this case neighbors, schoolmates, school officials. how many of them do you think would have supported this guy getting a gun?
Read the attached for what CNN claims is the current background check process. It seems to be little more than the honor system.
But let's hear other ideas from those that have them.
Jake, and most libs, are into "feel good" politics. The facts really don't matter as they are emotion based on this issue and not logic based.
The reason I asked the very simple question is bc you see libs like Jake stumble and fumble with it time after time. They don't have an answer that will stop, or greatly reduce, these shootings.
Maybe we can tighten up the background checks a bit but you saw how the FBI fouled this up. As you well know, even if we stop him from getting the guns legally, it is so easy to get the guns illegally.
Just look at the Columbine shooters. One got his gun from his of age GF buying it legally and passing the background check. She broke the law by giving the gun to her BF in a straw purchase.
The other shooter bought a gun from the pizza shop owner he was working for. That was selling a gun to a minor and obviously illegal.
They didn't even have to resort to the "black market" (i.e. illegal purchase from strangers) for people they knew were all too willing to give them easy access to guns.
Now, if two deranged and dopey teenage kids were easily able to get guns and break dozens of laws in the process, how in the world are we ever going to stop other people who are committed to mass killings/shootings? We cant.
We need experienced, armed guards at schools. It is the only chance the kids have at taht point. One of the reasons these idiots choose schools is bc they know they can wreak carnage there bc they are "gun free zones."
Yeah, "gun free" works like a charm. Except for the murderer who DOESNT FOLOW THE LAW.
Why would you two tools assume just because I chose not to waste my time listing the many things I'd like to see done that I don't have a list? I just won't waste my time posting it here in response to Duncey's content-free diversion.
Also, your belated examples are only of those things that did not work. Which is no reason not to learn from experience and make some changes as we go.
But thanks for finally letting yourself be prodded into actually discussing the issue with some content, instead of your vapid first post.
And, the Republicans are not doing the same thing? "Happiness Is A Warm Gun"
And, regarding your question, I'd be happy with laws that may not prevent such an attack, but at least reduce the body count. Even you can't be stupid enough to not figure that one out! 
Reducing the body count by legislation is pure bull shit. Place armed guards at those schools, THEN we are talking about reduced body counts, and that's IF a nut isn't totally dissuaded by the fact that the school is armed to begin with.
Nothing like having the peace of mind, required for learning, within an armed encampment!
and movie theater, and sports stadium, and concert venue, and bus, and train, college campus, and…..and….and….and….
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Good grief jack. We have laws making it illegal to drive without a seatbelt, or over the legal speed limit. That certainly does not prevent ALL traffic related deaths. It’s illegal to have open fires or shoot-off fireworks in most (if not all) urban areas. That doesn’t stop idiots from accidentally burning down their own (or their neighbors) houses. It’s illegal to get behind the wheel of a car when you’re hammered. That has not stopped people from driving drunk. So…if none of these laws has completely eliminated the problem, why bother?
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When it’s easier to buy a semi-automatic weapon than it is to get a drivers license, or we can keep (most) kids from drinking in bars, or get (most) people to wear a seatbelt or not speed through school zones, I’d say we have some agency when it comes to doing something about this ridiculously easy access to weapons.
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As far as I’m concerned, there has to be a line drawn somewhere, and the US is way past that line. And, at this point, fuck your 2nd amendment “rights”. Since you want to read the 2nd literally, you can have all of the single shot muskets you want. Nobody is even talking about limiting rifle or handgun ownership. And one of those things is plenty good enough to “protect yourself”.
But you do not get to buy an AR15. If you already own an AR15, that is now illegal. The govt will buy it from you---and----give them to soldiers—or melt them---who gives a fuck? If you get caught with an AR15, you’re going to jail. Same if you get caught selling one. Perhaps there could be some compromise if someone can justify a legitimate need---other than it's MY RIGHT under the constitution. 'Cause, as part of MY RIGHT to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness (also in the constitution, BTW), I think its MY RIGHT to walk down main street naked. But that happens to be illegal because, apparently OTHER people have the right not see me walk down main street naked. And you might think that sight would kill you, but unlike a semi-automatic weapon, it actually can't.
. Your right to own an AR15 stops at my right to live in a society in which AR15s cannot be bought at the local walmart.
Will criminals still get a hold of semi-automatic (or full-on automatic weapons)? Can we completely stop crazy guys from shooting up the place. No. But this argument that--- since the whole problem can’t be fixed immediately and completely, that we should do absolutely NOTHING AT ALL, lest we trample on someone's 2nd amendment rights, is the height of insanity.
So fuck your crowd for trying to take MY rights away. And It isn't that Jack interprets the second amendment the way I do, its that SCOTUS interprets it that way. That's how our democracy is set up.
Don't like it Plants? Win an election and you can change the court or you can move out of the country if you so choose but DONT tell me what my rights are or are not. YOU don't get to decide that for the country, thank God.
Yet AGAIN, I never said we should do nothing. You glossed right over my idea of protecting kids with professional who know how to put down threats.
Answer me this Plants. If you were a teacher or a kid at that school, and you heard gun fire in the hall, at that moment would you want an armed guard tracking that fucker down and hopefully taking him out before he got to your class or would you want to resort to "prayers and thoughts" only?
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm..........................................
Go for it. And, of course anyone would be grateful to have an armed guard "tracking that fucker down". But, ya know....I'd much rather the fucker didn't have a gun in the first place. I'd much RATHER---as a society---we be proactive instead of reactive. I'd RATHER we didn't NEED to place armed guards in schools. I'd rather we started making moves to PREVENT, even one, mass shooting. At least TRY.
But if your solution is to deploy armed guards in schools---(and it would seem that gun advocates like yourself are unwilling to even listen to alternatives), we better get busy putting armed guards in every public venue 'cause it's not just schools that have a problem. It won't do anything to actually prevent anything. But our children can feel better growing up in a society in which we, at least, placed a small army of militia in their school to shoot the guys who are shooting at them.
It's called....UTOPIA.
I'd rather we didn't need to place armed guards in schools too. I wish we didn't live in a world where people wanted to cause mass slaughter as well, but that's not the world we live in.
I not only have listened to alternatives, but have seen our legislative branches enact over 10,000 gun laws. And it is my opinion that those laws only stop people from purchasing weapons who never intended to do harm with them anyway.
Are we really safer today for having enacted all those laws? The evidence would point to no and in a BIG way.
And please stop with the asinine hyperbole. I am talking about a few retired police officers or security guards. That's all. No "armies." No "militias."
Nothing hurts your argument more than blowing things WAY out of proportion like that and it frankly wreaks of desperation.
is a society in which people are not able to pick-up an AR15 with a gallon of milk on their way home? Seems to me, that with all of this American greatness and ingenuity that would be a fixable problem. But, completely NOT fixable and no point even trying is what I'm hearing. Right? I guess I have higher standards for Utopia.
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But hey...If you gun nuts think armed guards in every school is the only answer---well, get the fuck on it then. 'Cause ALL I have ever seen in response to a mass shooting is : "there's nothing that can be done, crazy people can't be stopped, NO WAY will you trample on my RIGHT to buy deadly weapons with as little hassle as possible, felons will get them anyway and *if* we actually did do something useful we wouldn't get our millions in tasty campaign contributions from the NRA---so here's our thoughts and prayers...again...so sorry...rinse and repeat" response.
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FL had two officers---how many of these retired police offices do you suppose we're gonna need to cover every school, in every district, across the entire country?
Jack has invested heavily in several arms manufacturers, so he'd like to see as many guns as possible defending our schools throughout the nation! Or, so it would seem!
One can wreak havoc on something. But something can only "reek of desperation." Turn in your degree from your fake university, Duncey.
And, lets just go ahead and extend that law to anyone/everyone? Who the fuck needs (or even wants) an AR15? And why? It’s not for hunting. It’s not for target practice. It’s not for protecting yourself on your property, or running coyotes away from your livestock. “Modern Sporting Rifle”, my ass. The only damned thing an AR15 is good for is killing a lot of people quickly.
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Would a law like that stop crazy people from being crazy? Or stop crazy people from randomly shooting people with a handgun or a rifle? No it wouldn’t. But it would sure as hell slow them down a little. Instead of nutcases succeeding in shooting 35 people, 50 people, 500! people at a time, maybe they only get half, or a quarter of those people. The kid in florida managed to shoot 35 and kill 17, in MINUTES.
Maybe you don’t think that would be worth the effort, but I sure as hell do. 17 families just buried one of their children last week. Dropping that number by even one doesn’t make the situation any less horrific, but for one family out of the 17 it would mean everything. More thoughts and prayers every time something like this happens is absolutely useless to anyone. So instead of sitting on our hands lamenting that there is simply nothing that can be done, hey….why don’t we don’t we at least give it a shot?
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If I have a giant hole in my roof during a thunderstorm and the only thing I happen to have around is an old piece of plywood that won’t completely stop the leak, am I gonna put the piece of wood up there to slow it down, or am I gonna sit in my living room while water ruins everything and say….whelp….the wood won’t completely fix the leak so nothing to be done here? Oh well. Prayers for the sofa?
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There’s nothing that can be done? Bullshit. How about no more multi-million dollar campaign contributions from the NRA (or billionaire benefactors on behalf of the NRA)---to anyone? If that money dried up I bet you my mothers SS check that there would be some politicians suddenly coming up with creative ideas to choke-off the proliferation and availability of semi-automatic weapons. More stringent background checks? you betcha. No more flea-market type gun shows? Done. A mandatory gun safety training class? How about an Insurance requirement to provide relief to people accidentally (or deliberately) shot by idiots----and watch insurance companies balk the next time a mass shooting happens and they're on the hook to pay out millions to the victims families'.
Nothing can be done??!! C'mon.
...assult rifles if it is no longer legal for the public to own them. And to answer the question of why would anyone want to own an assult rifle ? it's because they CAN & the most moronic interpration of the 2nd amendment tells them it is their RIGHT, & these fearfull idiots would rather see more dead than give up that Right !
But you need to be 21 to purchase a hand gun. Gotta ask yourself why??..By the way, I don't think JD will respond..
But something like this would be a good start for some reform..but I doubt that anything will be done.
-- Modified on 2/19/2018 9:25:20 AM
That's what makes them felons plants.
And where did you get the notion "nothing can be done" by a very simple question I asked? Something CAN be done and it would be highly effective; protect the kids with armed guards. Gee, what a novel idea.
Now lets look at your "ban AR-15's" nonsense. Plants, are you aware of the VA Tech shooting details? That nut didn't have an AR-15. He had...wait for it...TWO HAND GUNS, a Walther 22 and a Glock 19.
How many did he kill? 32. The Florida shooter last week? 17. Ummmm, see the problem with your idea, Plants?
If you or the Left really gave a shit about those kids, you would NOT only talk about it right after a massacre and exploit a tragedy like your side has down for decades. You would ACT and make it your 24/7, 365 cause.
Where was your side 2 weeks ago? A month ago? Silent and out of camera range that's where. Where was the Obama admin when they held every branch of government and a filibuster proof senate???????
If you REALLY believed that saving just one kid, or reducing the number of deaths is worthwhile, you would join me in asking for protection for the kids.
We protect federal buildings with guns, we protect our money with armored cars and armed professionals, and celebrities protect themselves with armed security but somehow we CANT protect children in the same/similar manner????
"Where was the Obama admin when they held every branch of government and a filibuster proof senate???????"
and how may of the guys who have done these mass shooting are felons? Of course criminals will still get guns, regardless. But, again, that does not mean that the solution is to do nothing about legally buying semi-automatic weapons.
...our country to move in is a weapon brandishing totally guarded police state, at least that is what your post suggests. If we are able to totally protect the schools with armed guards, where would some crazed shooter strike next ? mabey transportation terminals or sporting events or office buildings, as a matter of fact armed guards would have to be stationed everywhere a crowd of people might be gathered. This is a totally wrong direction for our society to move in & that idea is reminiscent of what we might expect in a place like North Korea, & arming everyone is no better answer most mass shooters would not be detered because most of them see their actions as suicide missions anyway.
Aren't our kids more important?
but it's unlikely that it would have saved a single life in this latest shooting.
The problem with most anti-gunners is that they know next to nothing about the object of their hate. Anyone with the least bit of experience knows that a handgun is much more effective in close quarter situations like shooting up a school. If the shooter had been armed with three or four handguns he could have easily killed twice as many people as he did with the AR that he was armed with.
People don't like "assault weapons" because they LOOK scary, but the truth of the matter is unless they are altered to become fully automatic they really aren't anymore dangerous than their less scary looking cousins.
Now getting rid of high capacity magazines is a different matter, and perhaps the time has come for that discussion to be revived.
I found it ironic that even one of the talking heads on the Sunday morning shows admitted that none of the laws that have been enacted in response to other mass shooting have had any effect on stopping such shootings. It's not the gun/s, we have always had millions and millions of guns in this country and up until recently kids weren't going around massacring each other. We need to solve the root cause of these murders as trying to seize hundreds of millions of guns is simply not a realistic solution.
The ammunition!
"This makes rounds from an AR-15 or other assault-style weapons far more devastating than those fired from small-caliber handguns."
They compare the AR 15 to a "small caliber" handgun, an unfair comparison. A 9mm using hot loads and hollow points has every bit the killing power as the AR 15 from close range, and 9 mm is the very minimum I would ever consider carrying, there are handguns MUCH more powerful than the very common 9 mm. Comparing what the two can do at 500 yards is meaningless as virtually all the victims were shot at basically point blank range.
Nice try though. If we were discussing the Las Vegas shooting, that argument would have held water, in this case the comparison is meaningless. I stand by my earlier statement, the shooter could have killed many more victims if he were armed with pistols instead of the AR 15 he used, and banning AR 15's would have INCREASED the body count if anything.
What would be more helpful is if the NRA would give permission to our congressmen to have the CDC do some research on how to prevent mass killings with guns, and maintain gun ownership.
P.S. I'm still trying to find how many rounds he got off, and how that would compare to your scenario of him having 3 or 4 handguns.
He could have easily got off a lot more shots with handguns.
I stand by my earlier statement, having an "assault rifle" didn't make this situation any worse than if he had used other weapons. It's just easier to blame the weapon than to find out the real reason there are so many mass shooting today than in years past. The problem with banning weapons is that it only makes us "feel" safer, which then will lull us back into a false sense of security believing we have taken steps to solve the problem when in truth we will have accomplished nothing.
Let's say a hang gun has 6 rounds, which he was't old enough to get, but we've gone over that.
But let's say there's 6-8 rounds in a hang gun compare to a magazine clip of what 10? And that's being conservative. Maybe he had a 30 round clip...someone look that up. But you get the numbers.
Plus you have to consider that he wanted to spray the hallway, just shoot. A hang gun would work better if you isolated on one person. And at this stage, it's not reform to "feel better", it's just to show that you give a fuck.
And just to let you know, I'm not about banning guns.
First off nobody uses a "six gun" anymore, My personal handgun, a Glock holds 17 rounds, with three or four of them and several extra mags, I could easily get off a hundred shots in only a couple of minutes. Five minutes is 300 seconds, even at a shot a second you could easily triple the number of shots he fired.
Secondly, you can no more "spray" a hallway with a semi automatic AR 15 than you can "spray" with a handgun. Semi-automatic don't "spray, they fire one shot each time you pull the trigger.
As for being too young to get a handgun, I've owned a handgun since age eleven, Jack has already taken the class to school about murderers following the law. I won't bore you by rehashing that misconception again.
And isn't reform supposed to be about getting results, not trying vainly to prove 'you give a fuck"
That’s not the problem. You don’t need to be an experienced gun owner to know that there is a significant problem with guns in the US. I was raised around guns and learned about gun safety and how to shoot when I was tall enough to hold a 22. caliber long rifle. Admittedly, I do not like guns. I do not get why so many people are so seemingly obsessed with guns. That said, I completely get why and how guns can be useful. I am not at all opposed to gun ownership.
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But, as I’ve said, there has to be a limit somewhere. And, semi-automatic military style assault weapons have no place in any legitimate “need” category for civilian gun ownership. It’s not for hunting. It’s not for target practice. It’s not for predator control. It’s not even useful as an urban paranoia protection device. It’s a fucking military weapon being sold to civilians as a “sporting rifle” for the sole purpose of gun manufacturers making money. And….apparently to feed some kind of emotional/psychological need of weekend military militia wanna-b’s.
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Sure, banning them would feel good. No, it would not stop ALL mass shootings. But the Las Vegas shooting sure as hell would have been different. The guy shot 500 people fer christs sake. Something other than thoughts and prayers are needed here. No matter how much outrage there is after every shooting incident, republican recipients of NRA contributions and the zealotry of 2nd amendment adherents block any and every effort to implement even the most minimal amount of control over guns in the US.
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Realistically, there are many things that could be done to slow the problem, without preventing regular folks from owning firearms. Nobody needs a semi-automatic military style assault rifle. Nobody needs handgun with a 30 round magazine---or multiple magazines---or multiple handguns/shotguns/rifles. If you can’t “protect yourself” with a 9mil and 17 rounds, maybe you should put down the gun? Some sort of flag should be going up at gun dealerships when someone is attempting to buy multiple guns….or multiple magazines. And nobody should be able to buy a gun, from some random guy, at a road-side gun show. The background checks currently place make it easier to buy a gun than it is to buy a car.
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and yes----as well as a reasoned public discourse on gun rights/ownership, we need to be looking at the underlying motivation for these shootings. What is up with these young men? WTF? Every single time we have a mass shooting, R’s say: “now is not the time to talk about this.” The Columbine shooting happened 19 years ago and nothing has been done to change anything. When the fuck would be the time to talk about this?
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And, more than anything, the NRA has entirely too much influence over politicians via campaign contributions. That needs to stop. Mass shootings can happen anywhere. But mass shootings have become so routine in the US that when another one happens we all say---oh…how terrible! What’s for breakfast?
Oh ..there is nothing anyone can do ,the law that allow these people to own war guns and slaughter innocent civilians anytime they want was sent from God and cannot be overturned to make these guns illegal to own.
I truly wish that you and you family get caught in one of these mass shooting.
a deranged man walking is a desert scribbled some nonsense on a rock and the stupid people follow the nonsense. It becomes justification for murdering children. Connasses!
There is technologies which the NRA opposes vehemently. Make the gun to be fired only by its licensed owner. Smart card hunting permits that enables the guns for only the hunting season. Have another smart card to allow the gun to be fired limited rounds buy its registered/licensed owner.
All technologies are available today.
Confiscate/buy back all guns and issue credits towards smart guns.
...No anon just a further complication, even among the shoot em up morons someone will come up with a way to overide whatever safety technology with firearms is tried & we would be right back where we started except that the firearm manufactures would be several billion dollars ritcher. The only way to reduce the current problem of death & injury with firearms is to convince our BANG BANG shoot em up society that firearms ARE the facilitators of this carnage & that certified law enforcement officers are the only people that ought to carry them.
The further left a person is, the less likely that person is to support cops, but the more likely that person is to trust his life to LE and LE only where is comes to being protected from crime.
So your solution is to round up all 300+ million guns that are already in the hands of private citizens? Good luck with that. I used to think you were one of the more reasonable libs, but this is just crazy talk and proof that there is a contingent that really wants to ban ALL guns. I'll make you a deal, you get rid of the other 300 million or so guns that are already in this country and THEN you can have mine too.
...the true irony of this debate is the debate about (tools) is meaningless without discussing change in our social direction. The undeniable fears that drive the right side of these posts are the true enemys that create the firearm carnage that America leads the world in today & until these attitudes begin to change this problem will continue to grow. I know my desire to see our society without the intimidation of firearms is not currently realistic but my thoughts are in change for our future and that has to start somewhere & the sooner the better. So go ahead & bury your head in the sand, maintain the status-quo or begin to realize the foolishness of trying to solve any of Americas problems with firearms.
Guns have ALWAYS been part of American culture, there have always been plenty of guns for both adults and teenagers to get their hands on. Why is it that school shootings are only a recent phenomenon? The guns have always been here, why didn't kids shoot up schools before now if the guns are the problem?
...An easy one GaG, the fasination with firearms has growen as has our desire to use these (tools) to quickly solve problems that confront us. Until we begin to discuss the release of the angry power & control issues that some use to justify the necessity of the use of (tools) of fear & death these problems will continue.
Or cops and robbers, or any of the other childhood games based on guns and violence. Not to mention, outside of the cities as least, most kids grew up having guns around them their entire lives. Speaking for myself, I owned my first handgun at age 11, I have always been around guns, but I have never contemplated mass murder.
I do agree the "anger and control issues" that some use to justify their behavior is at least partly to blame, but it's not some newfound "fascination" with guns. Guns have always been part of American society, mass murders have not.
Some say violent movies, video games and the internet have desensitized teenagers and society in general. Also, the divorce rate, dual income households and absentee dad's may play a role along with the removal of psychiatric wards.
Of course the above is pure speculation. But the fact remains that guns have always been a part of American culture and mass shootings are a recent phenomenon like the above. There's a good chance that guns are not the problem and folks are barking up the wrong tree.
Many of the liberals agree with him but are too chicken shit to take his stand so they can claim "Who is saying to get rid of all guns Jack?"
Well, Mr Huck is and a fucking LOT of liberals want draconian gun laws so there would be no guns whatsoever, in their warped theory.
In practicality, as you state, there are 350 million guns and MANY of those gun owners would go to literal war if our govt ever tried prohibition.
...Well Jack the most salient point of my post went right over your head : the (tools) or (hardware) here are secondary to the true point of this discussion, progress to the problem of firearm related death & carnage will not happen until we begin to discuss falacy of attempting solve problems with fierarm violence.
I was replying to GaG so your point didn't go over my head as I was addressing a different one. I give you credit though. You have taken an unpopular position and I actually respect that.
If you are saying there is a larger societal problem as to why these kids are choosing to get guns for mass murder to begin with, well, yes, we need to have that discussion but I don't think anyone really knows that answer.
Seems like mental health is the common strain through all of these though so I would start there. Until then, we need a force to combat, defeat and deter the next killer as he is just weeks away, sadly.
I'm a twice deployed Special Forces veteran. I carried an M16...military version of AR15...for many years.
I don't believe assault rifles belong in urban society.
Having said that Parkland has LOTS of blame to pass around and it has ZERO to do with the NRA, Republicans or congress.
The FBI protected its own turf by not assisting local police, fellow high school students knew this kid was a problem and told no one, the people who took him in are now saying they THOUGHT they had the only key to the gun safe. Really,? You have a major discipline problem living in your house and you're not sure?
The school had to expel him because he was a problem but didn't think to increase security?
We as a people expect the government to take care of everything. We ARE the government.
“'The right to keep and bear arms is apparently this court’s constitutional orphan. And the lower courts seem to have gotten the message,' Thomas wrote."
No one's taking away "The right to keep and bear arms." They're just implementing a 10 day waiting period for purchasing one.
...SWAHILI because no poster today has been willing or able to see the coralation between our ever escalating propensity for violence & the tools that facilitate that behavior. And yes GaG going back to childhood games of cowboys & indians is a logical begining, but you might ask a few of todays native Americans if the late nineteenth century was a good time for their ancestors. The simple point I have been trying to get people to understand is in this issue the software (violence) & the hardware (firearms) are inseperable & it seems foolish to try to propose any resolution to the death & carnage problem until people acknowledge that.
...willing to accept the firearm violence problem as it is, if most people share that attude than we might just as well park discussing this problem until the next shooting outrage. NOT ME !
But then, there's the old adage about bending, not breaking. If the NRA and gun rights supporters are not careful, we may reach a tipping point, much like Australia and Norway did after mass shootings there, and gun rights could be drastically curtailed.